Is There Any Way to Know if Your LOR Writer Will Write a Strong Letter?

[jtom]

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So I have five LOR on my application and I feel all of them are very good by how well we know each other etc.

However, as I am going through supplemental applications several of the schools say they will only read three of the letters and I have to choose which ones I want them to read. I can pick two right off but I am a little torn between the third. The two I am picking are a veterinarian and the owner of a theraputic riding facility I volunteer at. The remaining three letters are one vet and two professors. I am not sure if it would look good to have two veterinarians or have diversity and have one vet, one professor, and one community person.

I am undecided as to which ones I should pick. The two professors I was close to but one I have not seen in about 2 1/2 years and the other I took his class last fall. I feel they both equally liked me but I have no way of knowing how strong their letters will be. The vet I feel will also write a strong letter but in the end I still have no idea how much time he will spend etc.

I am apprehensive about the situation because last cycle I had a very close professor (not someone I am using this year) that said he would write a good letter and spend alot of time on it. I felt he would write the strongest possible letter for me well come to find out when I went in for a file review, he wrote two sentences.

I feel it is innapropriate saying "can you write me a strong letter" as I dont want to imply to them that I feel they might write a poor letter.

What are your guys thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[Escalla]

From reading different websites of schools, it looks like diversity is important. However, in this case I think a letter from the vet would be valued higher (if they come through for you) because imo someone in the veterinary profession would know better if you're a good candidate for vet school. Try and go with that one if you can!

 

[SilverSpyderGT]

I feel it is innapropriate saying "can you write me a strong letter" as I dont want to imply to them that I feel they might write a poor letter.

There is nothing wrong with this.

Our internship coordinator in vet school told us that the best way to get a strong letter is to ask your potential writer this question: "Do you know me well enough to write me a strong letter of recommendation?"

If they don't, it's an easy out.

Also, if your letter writers know how important your letters are to your application, they won't mind you qualifying their ability to write you a strong letter. And if someone doesn't know how important your letters are, maybe you don't want him/her to be writing one for you.

 

[kakurubird]

Also, just something additional to watch out for: since the two letters you are set on aren't from a professor, make sure you're paying attention to which schools require an academic reference.
Just for any one else reading this who may also be deciding who to use for references, remember that some schools (don't know which off the top of my head) require an academic reference.

Here's a quick overview for anyone interested of what types of letters are required: http://aavmc.org/data/files/vmcas/aavmc school evaluation requirement chart_2012_final.pdf

 

[LetItSnow]

However, as I am going through supplemental applications several of the schools say they will only read three of the letters and I have to choose which ones I want them to read.[...]

I feel it is innapropriate saying "can you write me a strong letter" as I dont want to imply to them that I feel they might write a poor letter.

To the first question, I'd say that diversity is good, but vet recommendations are even better. So if you think both vets are writing you solid LORs, then use them both at the expense of chucking the academic one. Caveat: Make sure the school doesn't insist that one be academic. Caveat the second: If both the vets are basically the same (say, both are SA vets that you've spent the same amount of time doing the same things), then I might think more strongly about using the academic.

To the second question, I'd urge you to reconsider. I don't feel it's inappropriate (either from the perspective of asking or being asked). When I've had people at work phrase it that way to me, I've never been offended. It gives me the chance to say "I could write you a generally positive recommendation, but I don't feel I know your work well enough to really highlight specific qualities."

SilverSpyder's suggested phrasing is a bit more tactful, but I still wouldn't be afraid to be blunt about it. It's not disrespectful.

 

[jtom]

Both vets are at the same practice and both are mixed animal vets. Unfortunately there is not much in my area and I have not found another long term shadow experience except at this clinic.

 

[CorporateFatCat]

If you don't know if your LOR will be strong, to can always offer some help. Could you write a CV or statement of intent to let your LOR writer know your personal goals and aspirations? It might be better to meet with that person and discuss these things in person so your LOR writer knows better how to "pitch" you. It's probably better to be proactive than to leave the task to the writer and what you think they know about you.

 

[Armymutt25A]

Best way to ensure you get a strong letter is to write it for them. That's how I did mine. My boss was a very busy guy. He wrote a draft and sent it to me. It was way too short and didn't cover enough. I re-wrote it using my past evaluations and sent it to him. After that, it was up to him to look it over and submit it if he agreed with it. Did the same thing for the vets that wrote them. Many professionals are too busy to sit around for hours thinking of the best way to describe you in the most concise manner possible. This way, you show that you are truly dedicated to getting in by putting forth the greatest effort.

 

[hunterjumper12]

There is nothing wrong with this.

Our internship coordinator in vet school told us that the best way to get a strong letter is to ask your potential writer this question: "Do you know me well enough to write me a strong letter of recommendation?"

If they don't, it's an easy out.

Also, if your letter writers know how important your letters are to your application, they won't mind you qualifying their ability to write you a strong letter. And if someone doesn't know how important your letters are, maybe you don't want him/her to be writing one for you.

I completely agree with this. I was going to have my boss for a non-vet job write me a letter, until I went to go talk to her about it and she basically told me it was just going to be a form letter. I asked all my LORs this way, and it worked out fine.

Also, I think it would be best to have a professor (or someone in academia) write one of your letters. One of the vets I worked for suggested that, as her thought was that the vet schools would want to know that you have good study skills, etc. Personally, my application LORs consisted of:
A vet that I had shadowed both SA and LA, and had known for a long time (she does my horses and my dog)
A vet that I worked for
My academic advisor, who I had also had for 2 classes (a graduate level class and an honors level class).

Good luck!

 

[lareinesoleil]

Also something to keep in mind, vets probably already know what adcoms want/need to hear, because they have gone through this exact same process. A professor might not know all of the "key" things to say that make adcoms sit up and take notice like a vet would.

 

[twelvetigers]

True, but I think it's a bit simpler than that. Yeah, a vet might know some good traits or qualities to mention... but I think the most important thing is that the letter writer, whoever they are, can talk about you on a personal level and has some nice things to say. There are plenty of things a professor might notice just find that would be great for these letters: overall intelligence, attentiveness, attention to detail, determination, or maybe even just that you're friendly and easy to talk to. If they are honest, it will come through, and that could very well look better than a vet trying to point out specific things.

If you know the person well enough, maybe mention a couple things you would like them to cover (i.e. how you interact with customers, your work ethic, something like that) but otherwise, let them say what they want to say about you. It will come out sounding more genuine, I think.

All my LORs wrote their own letters, and I'm still a bit uncomfortable with the idea of writing one for myself. I mean, I think I could - this whole process is one big "look here, I'm amazing" - but writing an eLOR for someone to submit on my behalf seems like it would take something away from the final product. One would hope that these people see something in you that you might not yet see in yourself - that's where those really, really amazing letters come from.

 

[petdrhpful2015]

I don't think you can really compare the two LOR's as better or worse. Sure, vets will know what an admissions committee might want to hear, but so do ALL of the other vets writing letters for every other applicant. I think a perspective outside the vet community can give the committee some real insight into who someone is, i.e. a professor (if you really know them well). Professors are likely to have written other letters as well. They might need more suggestions as to what would be helpful to write, but I think that having LORs from people besides vets helps create a more complete picture of who an applicant is, rather than just three vets writing the same thing because they know what the committee wants to hear.

A lot of schools are developing "Pre-Med committees" that actually do an interview and then sit down and write a letter together. They are usually science profs and know you pretty well after 4 years. I used that for one of my three.

 

[Minnerbelle]

A lot of schools are developing "Pre-Med committees" that actually do an interview and then sit down and write a letter together. They are usually science profs and know you pretty well after 4 years. I used that for one of my three.

You want to be a little careful with that depending on the UG you go to though, because my committee letter was gigantic and would never fit as an eLOR. I had to send it off as an extra letter in paper format for the schools that would take it. Most would not.

 

[Minnerbelle]

All my LORs wrote their own letters, and I'm still a bit uncomfortable with the idea of writing one for myself. I mean, I think I could - this whole process is one big "look here, I'm amazing" - but writing an eLOR for someone to submit on my behalf seems like it would take something away from the final product. One would hope that these people see something in you that you might not yet see in yourself - that's where those really, really amazing letters come from.

Totally agree. Esp if this was something that the LOR writer was going to read, change a lil, and submit... I think I would be a bit shy about boasting myself full scale. I mean, I want to say good things about myself, but I don't want to be presumptive either (and some would argue that's what hold women back... but I digress). One of my LORs said "When MB walked into the building, it was literally like a breath of fresh air." I really liked that statement, but no way in hell I would ever say that about myself. Like a lot of what was in that letter made me blush, and I don't think I could have said most of those things and presented it as something that I thought the LOR writer should have thought of me.

 

[scb44f]

One of my LORs said "When MB walked into the building, it was literally like a breath of fresh air." I really liked that statement, but no way in hell I would ever say that about myself. Like a lot of what was in that letter made me blush, and I don't think I could have said most of those things and presented it as something that I thought the LOR writer should have thought of me.

Those statements are total gems, and there is nothing compared to one of those, but that didn't deter me from writing my own LOR when prompted to. I knew before asking that the vet I worked with the most asked everyone to write their own, since he is absolutely awful at putting that kind of thought into a written statement. So when I originally asked him to write it, I specifically said I didn't want to write my own.

When it came down to it though, he asked me to write what I'd like him to say about me. He then handed me a 1-paragraph poorly written LOR that another pre-vet had typed for him and told me to use that as a template... I read it, thanked ResLife for teaching me how to write good LORs, and went from there. It was frustrating to write my own, but I tried to take a step back and think about it from their perspective. It took me about 20 minutes to knock it out and when I gave it to him, he read it and said it was "really great" so I don't even know if he changed any of it.

tl;dr - Sometimes it's unavoidable to write your own, but just know that they will sign off on it, so if they think any of it is untrue, or want to expand, they can always change it before submitting it.

ETA: Another short comment on pre-med committee letters - many med schools require a non-science academic LOR, so schools put a variety of professors in the pre-med committee, not just science professors, so if you choose to go that route, you may very well have someone help write your letter who doesn't even know you. My SO knew maybe half of the people who were in on his pre-med committee interview.

 

[LetItSnow]

Also something to keep in mind, vets probably already know what adcoms want/need to hear, because they have gone through this exact same process. A professor might not know all of the "key" things to say that make adcoms sit up and take notice like a vet would.

Maybe. The flip side of that is that a professor, esp in the sciences, might be more in tune with what's going on in the academic world. One of mine was quite familiar with the vet school to which I applied. A vet who has been in private practice for 20+ years isn't as likely to be up on what's going on in the academic world.

I'm not sure you can generalize. People just need to be smart about their references. 🙂

 

[jtom]

I decided to use one vet, the theuraputic riding center owner, and a professor. As mentioned by LIS, my two vets are from the same practice and both mixed animal vets- one is a new grad and the other is the owner and been a vet for 25 years (using this one for the one vet letter).

If the other vet was from a different clinic and/or different type of vet then I would reconsider but I feel I am making the right choice. This school does not require an academic evaluation, just one letter has to be from a vet.

Anyone agree with my decision?

 

[LetItSnow]

Anyone agree with my decision?

I think I'd agree with your decision whichever way you decided to go. Sometimes you just have to weigh things and make the best call you can.

Best of luck!

 

[SocialStigma]

I would've made the same decision 🙂