Is there really a difference between MD and DO?

[snow529]

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A lot of programs, particularly inpatient heavy specialties like medicine/surgery at large hospitals, have concerns about the quality of the rotations at some/many DO schools. Doesn't particularly matter if you "killed it" on your medicine clerkship if it was a preceptor office based rotation with no real hospital experience.

I really want to know more about this. My understanding is that DO rotations are often in community clinics while MD rotations are in large teaching hospitals. I have read one DOs account which said they felt like they got more hands-on experience because they had more attention while rotating thru the smaller clinics than they would have had in a big hospital. I guess my concern is that DOs might not get exposed to as wide a variety if diseases.

While this MD and DO question has been asked a million times, I really appreciate this thread (and all the others I have found on SDN on this topic). The decision of whether or not to go MD or DO feels huge, especially for applicants who are qualified for both. I, for one, am very interested in the DO philosophy, but am worried it might mean fewer options later if I develop different interests and priorities.

Thank you!

 

[TUVIX]

Ouch

Well it's true... Sometimes when people post things I look at their post history to see who they are, where they are applying, if they are getting interviews... stuff like that, just because I find it fascinating some of the things that people write on here anonymously and to see how that matches up with them as an applicant and their goals etc... Well in this case I found it humorous that his only other posts were a huge thread about how he falsified his AMCAS application. So I wonder what kind of Lexus he will be driving.

 

[Dr.Smexy]

I really want to know more about this. My understanding is that DO rotations are often in community clinics while MD rotations are in large teaching hospitals. I have read one DOs account which said they felt like they got more hands-on experience because they had more attention while rotating thru the smaller clinics than they would have had in a big hospital. I guess my concern is that DOs might not get exposed to as wide a variety if diseases.

While this MD and DO question has been asked a million times, I really appreciate this thread (and all the others I have found on SDN on this topic). The decision of whether or not to go MD or DO feels huge, especially for applicants who are qualified for both. I, for one, am very interested in the DO philosophy, but am worried it might mean fewer options later if I develop different interests and priorities.

Thank you!

Honestly, the philosophy of DO education is purely an advertising campaign for naive students and patients. Their core education is modeled exactly after allopathic except for OMM which has never been proven to be effective or greatly beneficial. Most DOs don't even use OMM after graduated and many seeking MD residencies where OMM is never incorporated in any treatment.

 

[Tommyguns89]

Yes, still enough residencies for both, but probably much less competitive residencies for DO. Considering how strong the bias is against DO (Which I think is ridiculous), what you are describing might happen.

Who is going to be in charge of the former AOA residencies? If it's DOs or people associated with DO's, I cant imagine them taking MDs over DOs, if all else is equal.

 

[Psai]

Who is going to be in charge of the former AOA residencies? If it's DOs or people associated with DO's, I cant imagine them taking MDs over DOs, if all else is equal.

It's not equal. That's what we are trying to tell you

 

[username456789]

The people that aren't arguing about whether DOs had inferior undergraduate academic credentials are tilting at windmills. As @SouthernSurgeon stated, our concern is the quality of the preclinical education, primarily.

And, having participated in the core medicine rotation with several DO students as an intern, those concerns are absolutely founded and justified.

 

[deleted407021]

The people that aren't arguing about whether DOs had inferior undergraduate academic credentials are tilting at windmills. As @SouthernSurgeon stated, our concern is the quality of the preclinical education, primarily.

And, having participated in the core medicine rotation with several DO students as an intern, those concerns are absolutely founded and justified.

You had bad experiences with a handful of intern DOs, is what you're saying?

 

[22031 Alum]

I really want to know more about this. My understanding is that DO rotations are often in community clinics while MD rotations are in large teaching hospitals. I have read one DOs account which said they felt like they got more hands-on experience because they had more attention while rotating thru the smaller clinics than they would have had in a big hospital. I guess my concern is that DOs might not get exposed to as wide a variety if diseases.

I've mentioned before working with a DO fourth year who had never done inpatient OB rounds before. Her preceptor had a midwife who rounded, so she just followed him between deliveries and the office. While getting that "real life Doctor" experience is a nice selling point, it ignores the fact that medical students need to learn how to function as residents. The clerkship experience of being on an inpatient team gets dismissed by the pro-preceptor crowd as "not hands-on enough." But there's value in seeing the job you'll be doing for 4 years, not being thrust blindly into it as an intern.

Meanwhile, a product of even the "worst" allopathic school can be presumed to have the same baseline experience from their wards years as every other MD student. You can't say that about every DO student and that is what program directors balk at.

 

[Gandyy]

I've mentioned before working with a DO fourth year who had never done inpatient OB rounds before. Her preceptor had a midwife who rounded, so she just followed him between deliveries and the office. While getting that "real life Doctor" experience is a nice selling point, it ignores the fact that medical students need to learn how to function as residents. The clerkship experience of being on an inpatient team gets dismissed by the pro-preceptor crowd as "not hands-on enough." But there's value in seeing the job you'll be doing for 4 years, not being thrust blindly into it as an intern.

Meanwhile, a product of even the "worst" allopathic school can be presumed to have the same baseline experience from their wards years as every other MD student. You can't say that about every DO student and that is what program directors balk at.

Yea, the clincial rotations for DO students arent too great from what I hear.

 

[Gandyy]

The people that aren't arguing about whether DOs had inferior undergraduate academic credentials are tilting at windmills. As @SouthernSurgeon stated, our concern is the quality of the preclinical education, primarily.

And, having participated in the core medicine rotation with several DO students as an intern, those concerns are absolutely founded and justified.

So then, can someone tell me the truth then? What you are telling me is that if I go to a DO school, no matter how well I do on COMLEX, or Step 1, I have no real shot at any competitive residency during/after the merger?

 

[Donald Juan]

So then, can someone tell me the truth then? What you are telling me is that if I go to a DO school, no matter how well I do on COMLEX, or Step 1, I have no real shot at any competitive residency during/after the merger?

Right now, it is more difficult for DO students to get into competitive specialties. After the merger, it could potentially be even harder, and it is very unlikely that it will get any easier (at least in the short term). It's certainly not impossible, but going DO makes it more of an uphill battle than it already is...most MD students don't have a real shot at certain specialties either.

 

[username456789]

You had bad experiences with a handful of intern DOs, is what you're saying?

No, I did my intern year at a hospital that had DOs rotate through for their core medicine rotation.

 

[deleted407021]

No, I did my intern year at a hospital that had DOs rotate through for their core medicine rotation.

And these students were sub-par?

Yea, the clincial rotations for DO students arent too great from what I hear.

It varies, obviously.

 

[Azete]

This idea of "more research opportunities" at MD keeps coming up and I'm not really sure where this is coming from. There are more opportunities at some schools over others, and yes MD schools generally have more research funding as a whole -- but people forget that a lot of schools have affiliations with large universities.

VCOM, for example, is affiliated with Virginia Tech -- a school that is, you know, a research institute.

 

[22031 Alum]

This idea of "more research opportunities" at MD keeps coming up and I'm not really sure where this is coming from. There are more opportunities at some schools over others, and yes MD schools generally have more research funding as a whole -- but people forget that a lot of schools have affiliations with large universities.

VCOM, for example, is affiliated with Virginia Tech -- a school that is, you know, a research institute.

An affiliation can help, but it's far from sufficient when it comes to creating an environment where med students are active in research.

 

[235009]

i'm glad some grownups with actual experience showed up to this thread: @SouthernSurgeon, @GuyWhoDoesStuff, @22031 Alum

Getting "more hands on experience" in these "preceptor based" rotations is a complete joke. You aren't learning anything by being "first assist" in the OR doing another lap chole or appy with a community doctor who only does these simple procedures, isn't up on the literature so isn't even capable of teaching you anything useful, and immediately ships anything but the simplest cases to the university hospital.

When I was a med student my senior resident (who was a DO) marveled at how much was expected of us during our medicine rotation. For instance we had to formally write up cases and go over them with the faculty, we were required to write notes on all our patients, etc etc. This is the stuff that prepares you to be a good intern not your physical proximity to a community attending. Medical education shouldn't be an afterthought... there are people who make a career out of teaching med students and residents and those are the people you want to have access to and learn from.

Now as a resident I'm really glad I got real clinical experience in med school. I was more prepared on day 1 and had a good foundation to build upon.

Some will argue that PDs should try to figure out individually who got a real clinical experience and who just coasted through. I would argue 1) that's not the PD's job and 2) every med student is going to embellish their experiences and accomplishments and try to polish the hell out of that turd (you already see it with the "hands on experience" line). So it's hard to blame a PD who has enough solid US MD applicants and doesn't want to deal with poring over hundreds of DO applications to try and sort out the specifics of students' clinical experience. It's not "discrimination" ...it's practical and a patient safety issue.

 

[WingedOx]

So what? "Killing it" just means good grades and board scores. It doesn't fully reflect the preparation and training you get in medical school.

A lot of programs, particularly inpatient heavy specialties like medicine/surgery at large hospitals, have concerns about the quality of the rotations at some/many DO schools. Doesn't particularly matter if you "killed it" on your medicine clerkship if it was a preceptor office based rotation with no real hospital experience.

It's not just the academic qualifications, it's the educational program that they are evaluating. They want interns who can walk in on day one ready to take care of patients at at least a baseline level.

Yeah, in psych we see the same things, since the quality of the psych instruction is REALLY variable for MS3s/4s. Here in the corn-fed midwest we have plenty of DOs walking around and for the established schools we know what types of training they're getting. It's not as if Midestern is going to have massively inferior clinical sites than RFU. Likewise MSUCOM vs MSUCHM, but these newer DO schools that keep popping up in the middle of nowhere are another story.

You can make literally any screen you want. My PD toyed around with making a "top 20" screen or a "in state only" screen for example. The screens are fluid though and not permanent so you can always re-review other apps at other times depending on how you want to handle the process

This may be the best humble brag about one's own program I've seen here in a while...

 

[Goro]

This is not 100% true. Ask the KCU grads who got into Mayo.

But it is true that some residencies will be off limits. As the Meat Torpedo is fond of pointing out ad nauseum, NYU Internal Medicine will not accept DOs.

The points made about some DO school rotations being glorified shadowing experiences is justified. Prospective DO students should take every possibility to be proactive an learn exactly what goes on at rotations sites.

EVERY MD and DO student should realize that competitive residencies are competitive for a reason.

So then, can someone tell me the truth then? What you are telling me is that if I go to a DO school, no matter how well I do on COMLEX, or Step 1, I have no real shot at any competitive residency during/after the merger?

 

[Gandyy]

This is not 100% true. Ask the KCU grads who got into Mayo.

But it is true that some residencies will be off limits. As the Meat Torpedo is fond of pointing out ad nauseum, NYU Internal Medicine will not accept DOs.

The points made about some DO school rotations being glorified shadowing experiences is justified. Prospective DO students should take every possibility to be proactive an learn exactly what goes on at rotations sites.

EVERY MD and DO student should realize that competitive residencies are competitive for a reason.

Right now, it is more difficult for DO students to get into competitive specialties. After the merger, it could potentially be even harder, and it is very unlikely that it will get any easier (at least in the short term). It's certainly not impossible, but going DO makes it more of an uphill battle than it already is...most MD students don't have a real shot at certain specialties either.

Fair enough.

 

[22031 Alum]

This is not 100% true. Ask the KCU grads who got into Mayo.

You bring this up often, and it smacks of the name-dropping that gets called out when pre-meds do it. Just saying "Mayo" doesn't mean anything re: the actual strength of the residency to those of us in the know. Mayo Rochester?? Arizona?? And which specialty?? For example, in OB Mayo is a perfectly fine program but it's no powerhouse.

 

[235009]

This is not 100% true. Ask the KCU grads who got into Mayo.

You bring this up often, and it smacks of the name-dropping that gets called out when pre-meds do it. Just saying "Mayo" doesn't mean anything re: the actual strength of the residency to those of us in the know. Mayo Rochester?? Arizona?? And which specialty?? For example, in OB Mayo is a perfectly fine program but it's no powerhouse.

Precisely the kind of smoke and mirrors that DO faculty try to confuse pre-meds with. Just like listing community programs only by their university program affiliation (example: instead of writing Elmhurst Hospital they'll write Mt. Sinai) on match lists

But it is true that some residencies will be off limits. As the Meat Torpedo is fond of pointing out ad nauseum, NYU Internal Medicine will not accept DOs.

It's funny how you're supposedly a faculty member at a med school yet name call like a 3 year old. I'm sorry I make it difficult for you to pull the wool over the eyes of pre-meds.

When I say my program doesn't consider DOs I'm not talking about NYU. I can name at least a dozen programs off the top of my head in my field (IM) and region (the northeast) that do not consider DO applicants.

 

[WingedOx]

Too many people discuss this in absolutes. Even in my own previous program (reasonably competitive psych program) there wasn't even consensus on the DO issue. Our PD has no problem ranking DOs and most of the faculty and MD residents back him up on this, though our chair thinks it "looks bad" to have DOs on the rank list (it should be said our chair was non-clinical and ultimately had jack sh-t to do with the actual training of our residents. 🙄) Who we ranked was usually a bit of a power struggle within the department.

/I should say there was generally consensus on not being kind to Carib/IMG...

 

[Goro]

I fully agree that determining what is a quality residency is akin to reading chicken guts. But from my layman's view, the Mayo (Rochester) name counts for something, especially considering that landing a residency there is still an uncommon event, especially for DO's.

In a more harsher view, given the evolution in Medicine that is occurring in front of us, that any prospective pre-med has to ask, "will I be happy doing X, if A, B, C through G are not open to me? Will I be happy being a doctor, period? Will I be happy being a doctor in this part of the country, as opposed to that part of the country?

Which still brings us back to the rotations problem at hand. Until the AOA drops this mania with the meme of "more DO schools = good" without strengthening the quality of 3rd and 4th year education (or opening more residency slots), I suspect that biased PDs will always have a dim view of said trainees. Perversely, in the more competitive specialties, ACGME PDs are more willing to accept COMLEX II as a licensing exam than COMLEX I!

You bring this up often, and it smacks of the name-dropping that gets called out when pre-meds do it. Just saying "Mayo" doesn't mean anything re: the actual strength of the residency to those of us in the know. Mayo Rochester?? Arizona?? And which specialty?? For example, in OB Mayo is a perfectly fine program but it's no powerhouse.

 

[22031 Alum]

Precisely the kind of smoke and mirrors that DO faculty try to confuse pre-meds with. Just like listing community programs only by their university program affiliation (example: instead of writing Elmhurst Hospital they'll write Mt. Sinai) on match lists

This is not exclusive to DO schools, but is done by any school who wants to make their match list look better to people without the knowledge to know better. UCSF Fresno!!! Hopkins Bayview!!! My issue is with calling out pre-meds who are starry-eyed about Hopkins, then turning around and saying "matched at Mayo" as if that means anything.

 

[22031 Alum]

But from my layman's view, the Mayo (Rochester) name counts for something,

Bold for emphasis. From my non-layperson view, it counts for precisely zero. There are Ivy League programs in my field that are only a few years removed from having to scramble half their spots. So a layperson might think that DOs matching there means the glass ceiling is cracking. To me it means they're probably still glad to fill, and I'll advise my really strong students to reach higher- like Pitt or UAB, which would surely make a layperson scratch their heads in confusion.

So if these Mayo matches were for OB? Okay, great for them, but it wouldn't raise eyebrows. Medicine?? Surgery?? Neurology?? Okay, great for them, but that's all I can say because it's not my field.

 

[Goro]

Point taken, colleague. Chicken guts, and all that.

Bold for emphasis. From my non-layperson view, it counts for precisely zero. There are Ivy League programs in my field that are only a few years removed from having to scramble half their spots. So a layperson might think that DOs matching there means the glass ceiling is cracking. To me it means they're probably still glad to fill, and I'll advise my really strong students to reach higher.

 

[235009]

I fully agree that determining what is a quality residency is akin to reading chicken guts. But from my layman's view, the Mayo (Rochester) name counts for something, especially considering that landing a residency there is still an uncommon event, especially for DO's.

Point taken, colleague. Chicken guts, and all that.

Hey @Goro: maybe when an attending and three residents from different fields tell you you're wrong you should do more listening than BSing. Yes, you are a layman and that's precisely why you're opinion on the matter doesn't count yet you are still trying (very hard) to drown out those who actually have experience. Just like a shameless salesman.

You either completely misunderstood the post you quoted or are trying to obfuscate/spin. Determining the quality of residency programs is NOT "chicken guts" to those of us in the field. I have a good idea of what's good and what's not in IM and my future sub-specialty and I'm sure my colleagues in other fields can say the same. If you notice (which I'm sure you haven't because you've been trying to insult me and drown me out) I will ONLY comment on the quality of IM programs and will always defer to my colleagues when discussing the quality of programs in other fields.

This is not exclusive to DO schools, but is done by any school who wants to make their match list look better to people without the knowledge to know better. UCSF Fresno!!! Hopkins Bayview!!! My issue is with calling out pre-meds who are starry-eyed about Hopkins, then turning around and saying "matched at Mayo" as if that means anything.

oh absolutely not exclusive to DO schools but i've seen it done more commonly by DO schools and I see the DO and pre-DO students falling for it like clockwork every year in the match list thread.

 

[WingedOx]

Some will argue that PDs should try to figure out individually who got a real clinical experience and who just coasted through. I would argue 1) that's not the PD's job and 2) every med student is going to embellish their experiences and accomplishments and try to polish the hell out of that turd (you already see it with the "hands on experience" line). So it's hard to blame a PD who has enough solid US MD applicants and doesn't want to deal with poring over hundreds of DO applications to try and sort out the specifics of students' clinical experience. It's not "discrimination" ...it's practical and a patient safety issue.

warning... mostly arguing semantics here...

While I think there's a lot of truth in your post, I'm going to disagree slightly with your quoted point and strongly with the bolded point. it absolutely is the job of an experienced PD to know what type of clinical experience students are exposed to, particularly when students are coming from the same region. As stated by people above, even within the LCME schools the quality of instruction is variable. Hell, even as a first year attending/affiliate faculty I have a generally good idea of what kind of sites and instruction med students are exposed to in the 5-7 med schools in the area, and a decent one for the other schools in the region, and I'm only loosely involved with the selection process at the moment (though was heavily involved when I was a chief resident last year).

There's one area MD school in particular that has given us residents who turned out to be excellent once they got their feet wet but quite honestly were behind their peers when they started as interns. We generally know what we're getting and we have to account for that in the selection process. The hill to climb is steep for everyone coming from MS4 to PG1 but steeper for some than others. We have to weigh and balance how teachable we think that future resident is compared to where they'll be at the start because no matter where they come from, they'll get more hands-on experience in our specialty in the first month of being an intern in our program than then will in their entire med school experience.

The fact that a hard cutoff has to be done somewhere is of course true though and can be arbitrary, but I think @SouthernSurgeon made that point well enough already.

 

[235009]

warning... mostly arguing semantics here...

While I think there's a lot of truth in your post, I'm going to disagree slightly with your quoted point and strongly with the bolded point. it absolutely is the job of an experienced PD to know what type of clinical experience students are exposed to, particularly when students are coming from the same region. As stated by people above, even within the LCME schools the quality of instruction is variable. Hell, even as a first year attending/affiliate faculty I have a generally good idea of what kind of sites and instruction med students are exposed to in the 5-7 med schools in the area, and a decent one for the other schools in the region, and I'm only loosely involved with the selection process at the moment (though was heavily involved when I was a chief resident last year).

There's one area MD school in particular that has given us residents who turned out to be excellent once they got their feet wet but quite honestly were behind their peers when they started as interns. We generally know what we're getting and we have to account for that in the selection process. The hill to climb is steep for everyone coming from MS4 to PG1 but steeper for some than others. We have to weigh and balance how teachable we think that future resident is compared to where they'll be at the start because no matter where they come from, they'll get more hands-on experience in our specialty in the first month of being an intern in our program than then will in their entire med school experience.

The fact that a hard cutoff has to be done somewhere is of course true though and can be arbitrary, but I think @SouthernSurgeon made that point well enough already.

Point taken but I think my argument was that it's not the PD's job to determine what kind of clinical experience each individual med student had. It's totally appropriate on a med school level. I see a lot of DO students arguing that a PD should vet each clinical site they go to and try to contextualize each individual rotation which of course makes no sense.

 

[22031 Alum]

it absolutely is the job of an experienced PD to know what type of clinical experience students are exposed to, particularly when students are coming from the same region.

You're right, to a point. One of the issues is that when the experience can vary SO WILDLY, it's really hard to keep that knowledge current. I know the specifics of my school's clinical sites forwards and backwards. I have a reasonable knowledge of the rotation sites of the schools the next state over. When students are farmed out to individual clinics, it becomes much harder.

 

[ZedsDed]

Hey @Goro: maybe when an attending and three residents from different fields tell you you're wrong you should do more listening than BSing. Yes, you are a layman and that's precisely why you're opinion on the matter doesn't count yet you are still trying (very hard) to drown out those who actually have experience. Just like a shameless salesman.

You either completely misunderstood the post you quoted or are trying to obfuscate/spin. Determining the quality of residency programs is NOT "chicken guts" to those of us in the field. I have a good idea of what's good and what's not in IM and my future sub-specialty and I'm sure my colleagues in other fields can say the same. If you notice (which I'm sure you haven't because you've been trying to insult me and drown me out) I will ONLY comment on the quality of IM programs and will always defer to my colleagues when discussing the quality of programs in other fields.




oh absolutely not exclusive to DO schools but i've seen it done more commonly by DO schools and I see the DO and pre-DO students falling for it like clockwork every year in the match list thread.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what's with all of the vitriol friend? Goro has his own opinion, which is of course biased in favor of DO schools. And he hasn't insulted you, as far as I can tell.

Not that I was considering DO schools before (I have a strong interest in research and academic medicine), but this thread has certainly cooled my jets on some of the better-known DO schools. Being from Ca and all, every year I see us send many excellent students to DO schools, which is apparently a much bigger deal than I thought...

 

[GrapesofRath]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what's with all of the vitriol friend? Goro has his own opinion, which is of course biased in favor of DO schools. And he hasn't insulted you, as far as I can tell.

It goes back like a couple years with them

 

[Lawpy]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what's with all of the vitriol friend? Goro has his own opinion, which is of course biased in favor of DO schools. And he hasn't insulted you, as far as I can tell.

It goes back like a couple years with them

The residency forums provide a strikingly different but critical information regarding the MD > DO statement, so the clashing is something out of scope for preallo's concerns.

 

[ZedsDed]

The residency forums provide a strikingly different but critical information regarding the MD > DO statement

How so?

 

[22031 Alum]

I don't think harsh words are necessary, I only chimed in to explain why the huge variation in clinical training can make a difference in a PD's eyes. And that "matching at XYZ" isn't in itself meaningful, you need more information.

 

[Lawpy]

How so?

Meh. There's a lot of technical jargon over there involving NRMP and other stuff. But there is an overwhelming consensus that US MD is more advantageous than US DO even when we get rid of all the biases against DO. I think we can agree on that.

 

[ZedsDed]

But there is an overwhelming consensus that US MD is more advantageous than US DO even when we get rid of all the biases against DO.

I'm not sure what you mean. Isn't the advantage due to the (perhaps justifiable) bias against DOs?

 

[Lawpy]

I'm not sure what you mean. Isn't the advantage due to the (perhaps justifiable) bias against DOs?

Not entirely. If the degrees were truly equal (and thus authorized by the same licensing and accreditation body), the concept of DO would be phased out and dissolve into MD. That shouldn't happen if they were equal.

 

[ZedsDed]

Not entirely. If the degrees were truly equal (and thus authorized by the same licensing and accreditation body), the concept of DO would be phased out and dissolve into MD. That shouldn't happen if they were equal.

Fair enough. So are you saying that perhaps MD schools carry a better pre-clinical education as well?

 

[Lawpy]

Fair enough. So are you saying that perhaps MD schools carry a better pre-clinical education as well?

That is hard to say with crap schools like Northstate lying around, and with many top tier DO schools completely surpassing some lower tier MD schools in educational quality (both preclinical and clinical).

If anything, i will give a slight edge to MD because of a strong and serious accreditation body (besides the Northstate disaster) and that deposits for holding your acceptance aren't so expensive

And there aren't more exams like COMLEX to worry about 😛

 

[WingedOx]

Point taken but I think my argument was that it's not the PD's job to determine what kind of clinical experience each individual med student had. It's totally appropriate on a med school level. I see a lot of DO students arguing that a PD should vet each clinical site they go to and try to contextualize each individual rotation which of course makes no sense.

You're right, to a point. One of the issues is that when the experience can vary SO WILDLY, it's really hard to keep that knowledge current. I know the specifics of my school's clinical sites forwards and backwards. I have a reasonable knowledge of the rotation sites of the schools the next state over. When students are farmed out to individual clinics, it becomes much harder.

yeah, I agree with both of you... as I said, I was mostly arguing semantics.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I think people should just cut to the chase and name the schools who have subpar clinical training. I mean that's what these forums are for, right?

 

[Lawpy]

I think people should just cut to the chase and name the schools who have subpar clinical training. I mean that's what these forums are for, right?

We are talking general terms here. On average, US MD is superior to US DO and it's not just the biases/stigma playing a role

 

[ZedsDed]

We are talking general terms here. On average, US MD is superior to US DO and it's not just the biases/stigma playing a role

Another way of putting it would be that the biases/stigma exist, at least in part, for a reason.

 

[Lawpy]

Another way of putting it would be that the biases/stigma exist, at least in part, for a reason.

Yep. Although apparently for many reasons given the discussions above.

That's why i doubt DO will survive when the "merger" happens.

 

[Gandyy]

I actually think that Goro ignored MeatTornado a while ago, so thats why hes not responding to any of his posts because he cant see them. Idk, I could be wrong

 

[Lawpy]

I actually think that Goro ignored MeatTornado a while ago, so thats why hes not responding to any of his posts because he cant see them. Idk, I could be wrong


I will say though, that for 3 residents and 1 attending, there has been quite a bit of unprofessional rage shown in this thread.

I almost want to endorse what Cyberdyne said. Just tell us which schools DO should we avoid lol

The obvious one would be LUCOM. And any and all for profit DO schools.

 

[Gandyy]

The obvious one would be LUCOM. And any and all for profit DO schools.

Yea, there is a long list of DO schools that I would put just above LUCOM.

 

[WingedOx]

And any and all for profit DO schools.

to be fair, isn't RVU the only explicitly open for-profit DO right now? And their clinical sites are reportedly reasonably decent, especially for a brand new school.

 

[Lawpy]

Yea, there is a long list of DO schools that I would put just above LUCOM.

Honest questions.

1. Why do DO schools have COMLEX instead of mandating USMLE?

2. Why do DO schools require very large deposits to hold seats? Even when strictly focusing DO?

3. Why do DO schools have a different application service?

If MD and DO schools are equivalent, why do we have the above three issues? This is not inflammatory, but rather i am lost in this matter