Is there really hope with a 20 on MCAT?

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akumar2013

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Hey guys,

I took the MCAT for the third time (each time my score has increased). I am not satisfied with my score (20) and I really put all my effort on this third try. I was wondering if I would even have a shot at DO schools? I know most people will ask are you applying to DO because of your low MCAT and the answer is no! I've been intrigued with osteopathic and its approach ever since I started college. Here are my other stats/info:

GPA: 3.6 (Science gpa 3.3)
ECs: Volunteering at various hospitals, shadowing orthopedic surgeon (who is a DO), researching in two labs (got one publication), part of many organizations and hold leadership in some, tutoring elementary kids in reading/writing, and working as a peer mentor for an introductory biology class.

Your feedback is greatly appreciated! Thanks!
 
Genuinely speaking there is none. Sorry, you will 100% need to retake.
 
I would normally say no chance, but can anyone with similar stats that has applied, maybe chime in?
 
Concur, there isn't hope with a 20. Please see why below.

The lowest non-URM/legacy/special case/veteran I have ever met is a 22, and they had a 4.0 with only 1 time taking the exam (good reason to believe they could do better) and very solid ECs.

If you've taken the exam three times and only have a 20 as the highest score that means the average is in the teens. This is indicative of a good probability of struggling with or failing the boards. Honestly, without a retake of 25+ I'd say you pretty much have zero shot. You have established a trend that shows your critical thinking under timed situation skills are well below average in the applicant pool.

All that being said, it is time to continue with the ECs that are important to you and that you enjoy and do an extremely thorough inventory of why you are doing so poorly on the MCAT. Do not avoid it, do not be in denial about it. Being able to truly evaluate your strengths and weaknesses and improve them is an incredibly valuable skill. If you want to become a physician an intelligent and herculean effort needs to be made in preparation to do much better the next time you take this exam. And if you pull it off it will serve you very well in the future as a med student/resident/attending.
 
The lowest accepted score was a 17, but there had to be crazy extenuating circumstances that it doesn't sound like you have (like maybe curing a type of cancer, donating millions to the school or being the child of the state senator). If you can, retake, get 24+ to have a shot, 25+ to have a decent shot, and 28+ to be competitive.

Check out the MCAT prep section of SDN and try to figure out what went wrong. Was it a timing problem? Deficit in the knowledge of the material? etc. Make sure you don't take it again without averaging full length practice test scores well above your target score.

If retaking really isn't an option (and since you've already taken it 3 times it doesn't sound like it is), then your best bet is an MS program with linkage that doesn't have a minimum MCAT requirement. Some examples include the TouroCOM-NY MS, TUCOM-CA MS, etc. Just know that these aren't walks in the park, they are intense programs that are more like medical school than undergrad, and if you don't make the cutoffs for entering into the linked DO program, you basically permanently end your chances at a stateside medical school.
 
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let me start with, i am sorry, but i am going to tell it to you straight.

barring any special circumstance, taking the MCAT's 3 times with a 20 as your highest score, shows a deficiency in your preparation and bad strategy. you need to really think about if you are giving it your best shot when you are taking this test. look deeply at your preparation and ask yourself, if you are really taking it seriously.

if you are, then there is something wrong with your foundations. you need to review and study your core classes. at this point, doing post-bac classes may really help you. it will strengthen your pre-clinical knowledge and boost your GPA at the same time.

seeing a 1x, 1x, 20, then a score that is sub 25 won't help you now. don't take the test again until you can get a solid score.
 
Study the MCAT for a year and study HARD. Get 26+. If you take it again and get a sub 25 score I would not be too hopeful for your chances. 2 MCAT takes with all sub 25 score is a pretty big red flag on the app as is..but 4 is a grave.
 
Most schools, including newer schools would definitely pass you.

I am sure that there are many in your shoes though (the median score for the MCAT is 25 - 26) so I applaud you for being honest and seeking advice. You're best bet is an SMP such as Nova, LECOM, and such and then just do well in it. These are seen as a very last resort, but perfect for someone like you since the MCAT is definitely not your strong suit.

Though be prepared to take out quite a bit of loans for them and some (such as Nova) last 2 years.
 
Most people are trying to tell you what you don't want to hear in a very tactful way, but I'm going to say it in the other way because I know this is something you've probably put many years of hard work and desire and thus deserves it to be heard loud and clear: You will not get into any medical school. You have to look into an alternative career. You've had 3 tries on the MCAT with a 20 being your best score. This is not an issue of a fluke. Don't entertain an SMP. This is not about your grades. This is about your MCAT. Even a 4.0 SMP doesn't save you from the 20. What schools see with a 20 is "will fail the COMLEX."

On the bright side, you have a very good GPA that could land you a spot in a podiatric school. You may even get a scholarship. I know it's not what you want to do, but it's the closest you'll get to ever practicing medicine independently with a legitimate clinical doctorate.
 
Most people are trying to tell you what you don't want to hear in a very tactful way, but I'm going to say it in the other way because I know this is something you've probably put many years of hard work and desire and thus deserves it to be heard loud and clear: You will not get into any medical school. You have to look into an alternative career. You've had 3 tries on the MCAT with a 20 being your best score. This is not an issue of a fluke. Don't entertain an SMP. This is not about your grades. This is about your MCAT. Even a 4.0 SMP doesn't save you from the 20. What schools see with a 20 is "will fail the COMLEX."

On the bright side, you have a very good GPA that could land you a spot in a podiatric school. You may even get a scholarship. I know it's not what you want to do, but it's the closest you'll get to ever practicing medicine independently with a legitimate clinical doctorate.

+1 don't give up though. there are a TON of amazing careers in healthcare :0)
 
Most people are trying to tell you what you don't want to hear in a very tactful way, but I'm going to say it in the other way because I know this is something you've probably put many years of hard work and desire and thus deserves it to be heard loud and clear: You will not get into any medical school. You have to look into an alternative career. You've had 3 tries on the MCAT with a 20 being your best score. This is not an issue of a fluke. Don't entertain an SMP. This is not about your grades. This is about your MCAT. Even a 4.0 SMP doesn't save you from the 20. What schools see with a 20 is "will fail the COMLEX."

On the bright side, you have a very good GPA that could land you a spot in a podiatric school. You may even get a scholarship. I know it's not what you want to do, but it's the closest you'll get to ever practicing medicine independently with a legitimate clinical doctorate.

It is possible, but you probably have a better chance making a doctor's salary playing scratch tickets.

If you really want to try, go to the DO school in your region. For example, Washington PNWU took 2 students in the past 4 years with < 20. http://www.pnwu.edu/students/prospective-students/applicant-and-class-profiles/

If you really want to become a DO. Take the Kaplin course, score at least a 25 on your MCAT, and apply early and broadly. Triage is correct, if you can't 'pass' the MCAT, you have no chance in hell of passing the COMLEX.
 
As others have said, your best bet is pod school. You've already showed a ortho and you said you were interested in DO which has an emphasis in primary care. A good cross roads is podiatry. You should at least shadow before wasting a cycle applying only MD/DO that will ultimately be fruitless
 
As others have said, your best bet is pod school. You've already showed a ortho and you said you were interested in DO which has an emphasis in primary care. A good cross roads is podiatry. You should at least shadow before wasting a cycle applying only MD/DO that will ultimately be fruitless

What do you think the lowest score on the MCAT should be for someone looking at pod school?
 
Most people are trying to tell you what you don't want to hear in a very tactful way, but I'm going to say it in the other way because I know this is something you've probably put many years of hard work and desire and thus deserves it to be heard loud and clear: You will not get into any medical school. You have to look into an alternative career. You've had 3 tries on the MCAT with a 20 being your best score. This is not an issue of a fluke. Don't entertain an SMP. This is not about your grades. This is about your MCAT. Even a 4.0 SMP doesn't save you from the 20. What schools see with a 20 is "will fail the COMLEX."

On the bright side, you have a very good GPA that could land you a spot in a podiatric school. You may even get a scholarship. I know it's not what you want to do, but it's the closest you'll get to ever practicing medicine independently with a legitimate clinical doctorate.

Some DO SMP's = guaranteed acceptance if you reach/keep a certain bench mark. I'm not one to say whether OP should be a doctor or not, simply showing him/her the options available.
 
Some DO SMP's = guaranteed acceptance if you reach/keep a certain bench mark. I'm not one to say whether OP should be a doctor or not, simply showing him/her the options available.

All of which I believe have a minimum MCAT score attached to it - all of the minimums I'm aware of are higher than a 20.
 
All of which I believe have a minimum MCAT score attached to it - all of the minimums I'm aware of are higher than a 20.

Lol, I was gonna say the same thing.

I havent taken the mcat yet, how hard is it to get a 26ish?
 
Lol, I was gonna say the same thing.

I havent taken the mcat yet, how hard is it to get a 26ish?

Well, personally it took me 3 shots at it to get in the high 20s. So I definitely have sympathy for people who struggle, while I also remember having the false notion that I would do much much better the first time I took it. As long as you are scoring at or higher than a 26, take it extremely seriously and study correctly, it should be attainable. But at the same time, everyone is different. I'm sure the OP thinks they're doing everything they can and the highest they have is a 20.
 
Lol, I was gonna say the same thing.

I havent taken the mcat yet, how hard is it to get a 26ish?

It depends, I think a 25-27 isn't too difficult as long as you directly target your weak spots.
 
OP, Things are not looking good for you. You can try one last time to rock the MCAT. Ever considered taking some sort of prep course? You're doing something wrong in studying if the best you can do is a 20. No one is stopping you from applying and giving it a shot, but your chances are virtually zero with a 20 MCAT. Yes, as others have said, it happens. But the rest of your application has to be impeccable... like Mother Theresa-ish.
Have you considered taking the GRE and giving PA school a shot? You could try carib MD schools (highly recommend against this) or a SMP that is associated with a med school.

Your main option is re-take the MCAT and do significantly better on it.. or start pursuing another path. PA is a great option, ever considered?

Best of luck to you :luck:
 
All of which I believe have a minimum MCAT score attached to it - all of the minimums I'm aware of are higher than a 20.

This confuses me since if you have a 25/26, assuming you have a decent GPA, why not just shoot for regular admissions? :shrug:

Never saw the use of DO SMPs since grade replacement will do wonders...
 
This confuses me since if you have a 25/26, assuming you have a decent GPA, why not just shoot for regular admissions? :shrug:

Never saw the use of DO SMPs since grade replacement will do wonders...

True - I feel like a lot of people who do SMPs though don't have the best undergrad GPA and am have a decent MCAT (that was my personal situation anyways). Also did it to get some graduate level science courses in since I only did the basic bare minimum science courses.
 
It depends, I think a 25-27 isn't too difficult as long as you directly target your weak spots.

This. Although its difficult in general and it varies based on the individual, 25-27 isnt horribly difficult. I got a 26 on top of some pretty insane working and school schedules.

OP, sorry to hear of your struggles. If I were you, I would shoot for pod school! Good career if you ask me.
 
Nope. It appears that you have troubles with standardized test taking. Without this skill, you'd never make it in medical school. Until you master this, do not bother applying and think about alternative careers as well.


Hey guys,

I took the MCAT for the third time (each time my score has increased). I am not satisfied with my score (20) and I really put all my effort on this third try. I was wondering if I would even have a shot at DO schools? I know most people will ask are you applying to DO because of your low MCAT and the answer is no! I've been intrigued with osteopathic and its approach ever since I started college. Here are my other stats/info:

GPA: 3.6 (Science gpa 3.3)
ECs: Volunteering at various hospitals, shadowing orthopedic surgeon (who is a DO), researching in two labs (got one publication), part of many organizations and hold leadership in some, tutoring elementary kids in reading/writing, and working as a peer mentor for an introductory biology class.

Your feedback is greatly appreciated! Thanks!
 
Some DO SMP's = guaranteed acceptance if you reach/keep a certain bench mark. I'm not one to say whether OP should be a doctor or not, simply showing him/her the options available.
Not going to happen. Most SMP have an MCAT requirement for admissions into it. Then on top they have another MCAT minimum for DO admissions. Besides, 20 won't survive the COMLEX.
 
What do you think the lowest score on the MCAT should be for someone looking at pod school?
Pod school is about a 22/23 average at each school. One time I saw the range of accepted students for the California pod school and it was 18 to 27.
 
Hey guys,

I took the MCAT for the third time (each time my score has increased). I am not satisfied with my score (20) and I really put all my effort on this third try. I was wondering if I would even have a shot at DO schools? I know most people will ask are you applying to DO because of your low MCAT and the answer is no! I've been intrigued with osteopathic and its approach ever since I started college. Here are my other stats/info:

GPA: 3.6 (Science gpa 3.3)
ECs: Volunteering at various hospitals, shadowing orthopedic surgeon (who is a DO), researching in two labs (got one publication), part of many organizations and hold leadership in some, tutoring elementary kids in reading/writing, and working as a peer mentor for an introductory biology class.

Your feedback is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

OP, if you're dead-set on DO schools, you absolutely have to buckle down and pull off something close to 30 or higher on the MCAT to show that you are capable. But like others have mentioned, it will be a very uphill battle and Pod schools may be a good alternative to think about. Whatever you do, do NOT take the MCAT any more until you've addressed your deficiencies and your practice scores are averaging 27+.

If you need some inspiration, look at Noshie's post from a few years ago. She was in a similar predicament as you with multiple low MCAT scores and through her sheer determination, made her way into med school: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=774396

Last piece of advice: speaking from my own experience (I took the MCAT twice), I found that MCAT scores in the teens to low 20s tend to be indicative of a lack of comprehension of the concepts. Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, but it was true for me and it matches up with what Noshie said. When I retook some of the prereqs and actually learned the material (things like "stability of the conjugate base dicates strength of acid" etc.), I realized how much more manageable the MCAT became. From there, it was just a matter of working on timing and testing strategy. The take-home lesson for me was that you can't expect to learn in a few months from test review books, what you were expected to learn over several semesters of classes. MCAT studying should be time to review, not learn.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck.
 
I've heard an adcom say mcat is not a good predictor of comlex or step. Lol. Step and comlex are esoteric compared to the wide general mcat.
 
I've heard an adcom say mcat is not a good predictor of comlex or step. Lol. Step and comlex are esoteric compared to the wide general mcat.

They're half right. The Mcat isn't very predictive of anything in majority. That being said if you can hash out a mid 20s score then you're simply not going to survive the steps.
 
I've heard an adcom say mcat is not a good predictor of comlex or step. Lol. Step and comlex are esoteric compared to the wide general mcat.

I know for a fact, and this was told to me by an adcom at a top MD school, that the MCAT predicts your success during the first semester of med school. That's it. Holds no real bearing on your Step scores.

Original poster, do not listen to any of these people. If you are set on becoming an MD or DO, work hard on studying for the MCAT and doing all you can.

I know SO many stories of people that bomb the MCAT bc they didnt prepare for it the right way. Worked hard at studying for it adequately, killed it on the 2nd or 3rd attempt, and are now at MD school.

Don't go to podiatry school if you want med school.

To summarize:

1) Do not give up. Do all you can to raise your MCAT score. There are tons of threads on SDN of how people studied to get a 30+
2) Apply wide and broad.
3) Do not get discouraged. A 20 does not reflect your intelligence, just that you need to brush up on the things you are weak on.
4) A 20 MCAT does NOT predict your Step scores. I also know people personally that bombed the MCAT, took it again and scored 28+ and are at MD school (or got low 20's but are at DO school)....and studied their ass off for USMLE or COMLEX, and scored very, very high on the step exams.
5) Do not give up!
Good luck!
 
I know for a fact, and this was told to me by an adcom at a top MD school, that the MCAT predicts your success during the first semester of med school. That's it. Holds no real bearing on your Step scores.

Original poster, do not listen to any of these people. If you are set on becoming an MD or DO, work hard on studying for the MCAT and doing all you can.

I know SO many stories of people that bomb the MCAT bc they didnt prepare for it the right way. Worked hard at studying for it adequately, killed it on the 2nd or 3rd attempt, and are now at MD school.

Don't go to podiatry school if you want med school.

To summarize:

1) Do not give up. Do all you can to raise your MCAT score. There are tons of threads on SDN of how people studied to get a 30+
2) Apply wide and broad.
3) Do not get discouraged. A 20 does not reflect your intelligence, just that you need to brush up on the things you are weak on.
4) A 20 MCAT does NOT predict your Step scores. I also know people personally that bombed the MCAT, took it again and scored 28+ and are at MD school (or got low 20's but are at DO school)....and studied their ass off for USMLE or COMLEX, and scored very, very high on the step exams.
5) Do not give up!
Good luck!

+1

After reading this post I have decided to give my 2 cents.

If you are hell bent on medical school, distance yourself from those MCATs. Take 2 years to do more courses to increase that UG GPA (get some 4.0s going). Then take that exam again (make sure you do it right and talk to people about better study habits such as tutors or learning specialists). There have been people accepted to medical school with 4,5, and even 6 attempts at the MCAT (not saying this is common but it has happened). However, take that MCAT years later to show that you really thought about your errors and fixed them.
 
Lol. I love it when people say the mcat is a true predictor of "intelligence". People, think for a second. You're a very high iq person who hasn't taken pre reqs in a few years and decide to take the mcat. The mcat test that you take happens to have all of the subjects with which you are least familiar.

Or, you're an average joe( probably like me lol) who has to study hard to make it. You study hard and get lucky because you are an expert on all of the subjects ( because you studied hard) that happened to be on that mcat.

End result?
Genius gets a mediocre score
Average joe gets a 35.

That's the truth to it . I would even argue that it is easier to do well on step and residency by working hard than by being a genius.

The people who say that mcat is the end all be all are the people who have received an amazing score already and are fighting for spots at great schools. Basically pre med gunners.
 
And the people who dispute that the MCAT is a predictor of intelligence are people who are either unintelligent or did poorly on the MCAT (or both). Intelligent people can do poorly on most anything if they don't put in the effort. An unintelligent person is not going to score 90+ percentile though.

I don't believe the intention of the mcat is to test intelligence in any form. So to actually claim that it is quantifying intelligence doesn't understand the statistical basis of testing.
 
And the people who dispute that the MCAT is a predictor of intelligence are people who are either unintelligent or did poorly on the MCAT (or both). Intelligent people can do poorly on most anything if they don't put in the effort. An unintelligent person is not going to score 90+ percentile though.

True. I would think that the people who argue my point are not either stupid or genius, but just people who like the truth. Too many pre meds scaring their friends into giving up. You don't have to even take the mcat yet to realize that there are only so many topics on the mcat and you can be of average intelligence and study hard and score very well.
 
And the people who dispute that the MCAT is a predictor of intelligence are people who are either unintelligent or did poorly on the MCAT (or both). Intelligent people can do poorly on most anything if they don't put in the effort. An unintelligent person is not going to score 90+ percentile though.

It was never meant to be a predictor of intelligence in the first place. It was just meant be used as a measuring stick to predict how one would do in the pre-clinical years and USMLE step I. After that, the MCAT loses predictive value (ex. clinical rotations, step 2, etc.).
 
It was never meant to be a predictor of intelligence in the first place. It was just meant be used as a measuring stick to predict how one would do in the pre-clinical years and USMLE step I. After that, the MCAT loses predictive value (ex. clinical rotations, step 2, etc.).

If the mcat was a true predictor of ms1, then why is physics and gen chem on it? It should only be bio and organic chem.
 
I disagree that it was originally meant to be used as a predictor of pre-clin/Step 1. I think over the years studies have been done as a way to justify the MCAT being a factor in medical school admissions. You'll note that the predictive value is almost nill.

The MCAT is nothing more than an attempt to standardize a portion of the applications. Oh, and the final weed-out mechanism

The correlative value for the MCAT to the USMLE step I is r = .6 in one review article. You are right in saying they use the articles to justify the MCAT being a weeder. However, there are adcoms that meshed this with the belief that it is a predictor. I don't believe its predictive value one bit.

If the mcat was a true predictor of ms1, then why is physics and gen chem on it? It should only be bio and organic chem.

I never once said it was a "true predictor" (just used the term predict) nor do I agree with it. Heck I don't understand why there is a verbal section when the bio and ochem are better predictors of step I success (probably years 1 and 2 also). It is even more bogus that psychology stuff is being added to the 2015 exam.
 
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I think all ADCOMs know it's not a predictor just like they know GPA isn't a predictor of how good of a doctor someone will be. It doesn't stop them from using those numbers as major criteria though. It is what it is, regardless of why. We all have to play the game.

👍

Sad but true
 
I think all ADCOMs know it's not a predictor just like they know GPA isn't a predictor of how good of a doctor someone will be. It doesn't stop them from using those numbers as major criteria though. It is what it is, regardless of why. We all have to play the game.

Like any measure we have a duty to revise and better it. We need to longitudinally track outcomes by factors.
 
It's good to see some common sense in here. I also do not know why psychological and sociological things are being added, but I think it will be more valuable tool for doctors In the future than physics and gen chem. especially the biochem part. But I know I know, we all play the game and its not the end of the world. I would still want to be a doctor if I had to take 3 mcats
 
It's good to see some common sense in here. I also do not know why psychological and sociological things are being added, but I think it will be more valuable tool for doctors In the future than physics and gen chem. especially the biochem part. But I know I know, we all play the game and its not the end of the world. I would still want to be a doctor if I had to take 3 mcats

Because psychological and sociological principles are important for understanding the people you're going to be working with for the rest of your life. Likewise these sections will be almost certainly be experimentally driven i.e statistics and research methods.
 
Because psychological and sociological principles are important for understanding the people you're going to be working with for the rest of your life. Likewise these sections will be almost certainly be experimentally driven i.e statistics and research methods.

If it is statistics, then would it be better to require a statistics course or better yet epidemiology? I see this as way more useful.
 
If it is statistics, then would it be better to require a statistics course or better yet epidemiology? I see this as way more useful.

Not necessarily. You'll learn biostatistics and epidemiology in medical school. The same cannot be said about a consideration for sociological and psychological principles involved and their experimental basis.
 
Not gonna lie. 20 on a third try isn't to appealing for an adcom. There are literally thousands of applicants who probably have put in hundreds of hours of extracurricular/volunteer/research, maintained great GPAs, and scored closer to the national average of matriculating medical students. Call me negative, but what makes you think you are special compared to the rest of the hard workers who show success? There needs to be some deep connections to get in with that score. A possible higher score on the next MCAT may work, but seeing your track record, the chances of someone completely turning around and succeeding is not as high as some commenters are making it look.
 
Hey guys,

Thanks for the all the replies! I really appreciate all of the input. I love the honest opinons by many. I took a couple days to decide what I want to do and right now I submitted my applications for pod school (some advisors said they were seats still available) so I'm going to try my luck. Also, I am going to re-take the MCAT if I don't get into pod school. Here is my score breakdown:

PS: 7
VR:4
BS: 9

As you can see, I need to work on verbal A LOT and brush up on some PS concepts. In addition, I already started shadowing a podiatrist and currently building up my app for next cycle (whether it is pod or DO) if things do not work out. I am preparing for the worse and hoping for the best! Again, thanks for everyone that replied! Good luck on your future endeavors!
 
Hey guys,

Thanks for the all the replies! I really appreciate all of the input. I love the honest opinons by many. I took a couple days to decide what I want to do and right now I submitted my applications for pod school (some advisors said they were seats still available) so I'm going to try my luck. Also, I am going to re-take the MCAT if I don't get into pod school. Here is my score breakdown:

PS: 7
VR:4
BS: 9

As you can see, I need to work on verbal A LOT and brush up on some PS concepts. In addition, I already started shadowing a podiatrist and currently building up my app for next cycle (whether it is pod or DO) if things do not work out. I am preparing for the worse and hoping for the best! Again, thanks for everyone that replied! Good luck on your future endeavors!
I know this will sound out there, but have you considered an LSAT prep course? The law test is pretty much just verbal on steroids. Maybe that could help you pump that 4 into a 10.

I highly recommend you apply to the California School of Podiatry. With your GPA + MCAT, you can get a 10k yearly scholarship.
 
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