Is this a duty hours violation?

[Disinence2]

Just wanted to run this by you guys first before I bother someone else.

I think it does technically meet the new hours regulations, just really blows.

Monday: Midnight to 8am then 6pm to Midnight
Tuesday: Midnight to 8am
Wednesday: 7am-1pm (Conference)
Thursday: 6pm- Midnight
Friday: Midnight to 8am then 6pm to Midnight
Saturday: Midnight to 8am then 6pm to Midnight
Sunday: Midnight to 8am then 6pm to Midnight

Usually 2-3 days a week I'm asked to stay late to 8:45-9ish Which puts me at about 78 hours a week. With one "24 hour period" off from Wednesday 1pm to Thursday at 6pm.

Though I don't really have a "Day" off the whole month. I'm required to physically be at the hospital every day.

Either way this sucks, all for a lame off service rotation.

Worth complaining about or just a bad month intern year?

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[gutonc]

Though I don't really have a "Day" off the whole month. I'm required to physically be at the hospital every day.

Either way this sucks, all for a lame off service rotation.

Worth complaining about or just a bad month intern year?

Ortho or Trauma?

While clearly (barely) within the letter of the rules, it seems like somebody spent a lot of time trying to figure out a way to inflict the maximum amount of pain while staying on the "right" side of the line.

I suppose you could complain about it but it's probably not going to change things for the better and will likely only make things worse for you and your colleagues coming down the pike later in the year.

 

[MJB]

Just wanted to run this by you guys first before I bother someone else.

I think it does technically meet the new hours regulations, just really blows.

Monday: Midnight to 8am then 6pm to Midnight
Tuesday: Midnight to 8am
Wednesday: 7am-1pm (Conference)
Thursday: 6pm- Midnight
Friday: Midnight to 8am then 6pm to Midnight
Saturday: Midnight to 8am then 6pm to Midnight
Sunday: Midnight to 8am then 6pm to Midnight

?

So, Monday is 6p to 8a on Tuesday.
Wed. 7a-1p
TR-6a to 8a Friday
FR 6P to 8A Saturday
SA 6p-8A Sunday
SU 6P-8A monday

Is that accurate?


If so, beats the hell outta 7:30P to 11:30A four or five nights in a row but it still sucks.


I'd like to kick the people who came up with these new rules square in their collective nuts. They made life much, much worse imo.

 

[Buzz Me]

If you're the night float then your "day off" is a night off (i.e. you don't come in one night)...not an entire calendar day. Just think of the entire day-night cycle as being flipped. So yes, the schedule works.

And it's 80 hours/week, averaged over a 4-week period. So there's a little flexibility in that.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Dude, that sucks. It sounds like it's not a violation, but it's lame all the same. I think you're stuck for now, so I wouldn't complain to the off service people. However, I'd bring it up with your program. We submit anonymous evaluations on all our rotations, so I'd at least mention it there.

 

[Law2Doc]

... However, I'd bring it up with your program. We submit anonymous evaluations on all our rotations, so I'd at least mention it there.

Well, I'm willing to bet the program already knew it would be an unpopular schedule, but one that appears to fit within the letter of the rule, when they came up with it, so they really won't care.

I also caution that in the smaller programs, an anonymous evaluation is rarely anonymous.

So long as it's within the letter of the rules, and I think it is, you just need to grit your teeth and muscle through it. And curse the ACGME for its role in creating such wonderfully protective duty hours.

 

[ZagDoc]

Schedule is similar to most of my months this year (all my GS months, neurosurg, SICU, vascular, peds surg, etc). Haven't met a person who is a fan yet. Everyone talks whimsically about post-call days.

 

[Law2Doc]

Schedule is similar to most of my months this year (all my GS months, neurosurg, SICU, vascular, peds surg, etc). Haven't met a person who is a fan yet. Everyone talks whimsically about post-call days.

LOL. Lots of us actually preferred 30 hour shifts (not so much during, but immediately afterwards), because you got a big chunk of your weekly duty hours done in one shot.

 

[MJB]

LOL. Lots of us actually preferred 30 hour shifts (not so much during, but immediately afterwards), because you got a big chunk of your weekly duty hours done in one shot.

Precisely.

The new work hour rules are sure to be even more exhausting. It's amazing how out of touch the people making these rules appear to be.

 

[Disinence2]

I wasn't planning on complaining to anyone, as I agree it does meet hours.

I'm an EM resident doing an off service OB/Gyn rotation. OB/Gyn is quite possibly my least favorite thing in the entire world which makes each hour agonizing.

I can't wait for my MICU rotation next month which is actually less hours....I have never been so excited to start an ICU month.

Thanks!

 

[tkim]

off service OB/Gyn rotation.

ugh

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Well, I'm willing to bet the program already knew it would be an unpopular schedule, but one that appears to fit within the letter of the rule, when they came up with it, so they really won't care.

I also caution that in the smaller programs, an anonymous evaluation is rarely anonymous.

So long as it's within the letter of the rules, and I think it is, you just need to grit your teeth and muscle through it. And curse the ACGME for its role in creating such wonderfully protective duty hours.

But since he's off service, his program did not come up with the schedule. The program he's rotating in (not his program) came up with his schedule. Consequently, they might not have any clue what the schedule is like and might actually be concerned about a crappy schedule for their residents. That's how good programs operate.

 

[Long Way to Go]

I wasn't planning on complaining to anyone, as I agree it does meet hours.

I'm an EM resident doing an off service OB/Gyn rotation. OB/Gyn is quite possibly my least favorite thing in the entire world which makes each hour agonizing.

I can't wait for my MICU rotation next month which is actually less hours....I have never been so excited to start an ICU month.

Thanks!

It appears that you are working 78 hours/week, if I added correctly. I thought EM had a more restrictive work hours limit than the ACGME, no--something like 60 or 72 instead of 80?

 

[gutonc]

It appears that you are working 78 hours/week, if I added correctly. I thought EM had a more restrictive work hours limit than the ACGME, no--something like 60 or 72 instead of 80?

Only counts while on-service. Off service rotations are subject to whatever rules that service has (generally none beyond the ACGME regulations).

 

[Law2Doc]

But since he's off service, his program did not come up with the schedule. The program he's rotating in (not his program) came up with his schedule. Consequently, they might not have any clue what the schedule is like and might actually be concerned about a crappy schedule for their residents. That's how good programs operate.

Sure, that's possible. But abusing the temporary rotators from other programs is not exactly a novel idea in medicine. Plenty of "good" programs do this, as a way to not exploit their own. You see this even with some of the top name places in some fields, particularly in the long houred fields. It's a lot easier for a chief to give the black weekend to the guy he never met before who he's not going to work with again after the month is up. And by doing so making his own guys happier, even though they will get the identical treatment when circumstances are reversed and they go elsewhere to rotate. So my bet is still that the program already knows how it's folks are treated offsite, or prefer not to know because they are guilty of the same thing. But I'm sure there are ways this is handled differently in some fields. I'd still muscle through it so long as it's within the rules, because you don't really have any recourse.