Okay, I know that most of you will say that this is a no brainer, but I have been accepted at Michigan and UD Mercy. I know that Michigan has the bigger name and reputation, but the UD Mercy's facility is new and their clinical opportunities are great due to being in an urban setting. I really think for general dentistry the clinical work is vital. I live about 45 minutes from Michigan and about 20 minutes from UD Mercy. I could save some $ living at home going to UD Mercy, but not sure if it is feasable to live at home going to Michigan. Your thoughts...
Is this a no brainer?
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Im having the same trouble deciding between Michigan and Temple for some of the same reasons. Excellent clinicals at Temple and strong dental community plus I think I would enjoy my 4 years there. However I think Michigan is too good of a program to pass up. What did it for me was, I thought Michigan's weakness was it's lack of patients for clinics. After going through their interview packet, they did a good job describing their community outreach programs. It sounded like they were really working on addressing their weaknesses. I dont know much about UDM except for their insane amount of letters that they send to their applicants.
Yea, UDM does send a crazy amount of info/mail to their students, but I guess they figure it saves on the phone calls/questions. I'm also not sure that Michigan's research focus is for me. I'm not against research, but I don't want to give that as much attention as clinical work. My goal is to be the best general practice dentist I can be, I don't plan to publish research.
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If you are not planning on doing research that's a no brainer, go with UDM. It seems like you are leaning more towards UDM than U of M.
I mean both are great schools but I spoke to few dentists who are graduates of U of M and some that just graduated, they all say that U of M was awesome but it's heavily research focused. So you might be better off at UDM since your ultimate goal is to become the best GP you can be. I have couple of friends at UDM, D1s and D2s, so far they love it there.
But for me, only reason I am leaning towards U of M is because I am planning on doing research and would like to follow up my DDS education with a Ph.D program. (Well, that's if I hear something from them soon.
)Good luck man! maybe I'll see you at either UDM or U of M.
Thanks for the response. Most people I talk to (non-predents) just assume that I will choose Michigan based on reputation. It just isn't that clear cut for me. Why would you choose UDM?
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UDM's student clinic has a better reputation than Michigan in terms of available patients and what a dental student can typically work on. UDM also focuses on producing competent general dentists.
Both are good schools so you can't go wrong either way.
Both are good schools so you can't go wrong either way.
General dentistry is my interest. I'm also thinking about the $ I can save living at home (not always the best situation, but not too bad).
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I haven't been to UDM yet, and I don't where you did your undergrad, but you can live at home for UM, but it won't save you much money because parking is freakishly expensive in Ann Arbor and inconvenient.
Thanks for the heads up on the parking, didn't even think of that. When are you going to UDM? The new facility is pretty impressive.
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you have $27,000 instate at michigan versus $41,000 private school tuition at UDM. So would staying at home and going to UDM really save you money? I doubt it unless you would spend $15,000 a year rent in ann arbor, which you wouldn't come close to
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and times that by four years...
State school always wins. Well, not Michigan in football
Michigan--> less $$$,$$$
I agree the $ is one of the top deciding factors, but I don't know if the A2 area will provide the clinical situations that Detroit does. How many people w/insurance will wait at a dental clinic? Anybody have any insight (other than what was said at interview/tour) regarding this? I'm sure an urban setting will provide for all types of dental procedures.
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This is definitely a no-brainer:
-You can go to Michigan and become a mediocre dentist or you can go to UDM and be the best.
-You can go to Michigan and waste lots of tuition money to fund their sports teams and research or you can go to UDM and spend money on your dental education
-You can go to Michigan and your patients will respect you and think you're great or you can go to UDM and your colleagues and patients will know you're at the top of your game
-You can go to Michigan and treat easy cases where they don't require many procedures to graduate and not as much as expected from you or you can go to UDM where you see more and do more, meaning you learn more and are a lot more competent and well rounded
-You can go to Michigan and have vacations or you can go to UDM and go to school basically year round because they teach so much more in depth
-You can go to Michigan and feel comfortable or you can go to UDM and be pushed to your limits until you're a top notch freshly minted DDS
UDM expects a lot more from their students, but they are also much more respected in the professional world, especially in the state of MI. It's really hard at UDM, but the high standards, pressure, and expectations really pay off if you are up for the challenge.
Good luck making your choice.
-You can go to Michigan and become a mediocre dentist or you can go to UDM and be the best.
-You can go to Michigan and waste lots of tuition money to fund their sports teams and research or you can go to UDM and spend money on your dental education
-You can go to Michigan and your patients will respect you and think you're great or you can go to UDM and your colleagues and patients will know you're at the top of your game
-You can go to Michigan and treat easy cases where they don't require many procedures to graduate and not as much as expected from you or you can go to UDM where you see more and do more, meaning you learn more and are a lot more competent and well rounded
-You can go to Michigan and have vacations or you can go to UDM and go to school basically year round because they teach so much more in depth
-You can go to Michigan and feel comfortable or you can go to UDM and be pushed to your limits until you're a top notch freshly minted DDS
UDM expects a lot more from their students, but they are also much more respected in the professional world, especially in the state of MI. It's really hard at UDM, but the high standards, pressure, and expectations really pay off if you are up for the challenge.
Good luck making your choice.
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Well said.
Thanks for making great points about UDM. I think they are under appreciated. I was wondering about board scores of UDM students compared to UM. Are you currently attending UDM? Did you get accepted at other schools as well?
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Dude don't worry about the boards right now, that's like the last thing you should worry about. I am pretty sure that both UDM and U of M has high passing rate.
Go where you felt more comfortable. You must be losing sleep making this decision...
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I don't want people to think I am bashing Michigan. Both are great schools, and I had the same dilemma that many of you are having between the two. It's the little things at UDM that make it so special. Like if most of the class misses a question on a test, they don't just throw the question out, they actually discuss it with everyone, then give us the point for it. When I was a freshmen, the Dean and most of the administration actually knew who I was personally and talked to me as a colleague not just some random student. Our professors often eat lunch with us, so they aren't so intimidating and are real, genuine, caring people who want to mentor us and help us grow. If we are sad, depressed, or struggling, they seek us out and do everything in their power to help us through and make things better. If anyone fails a competency no matter if it's 1 person or most of the class, the faculty gives you special attention and help for hours if you need it so you can retake and pass. Even the security, library people, cleaning crew, and lunch people care about us. They know us by name, give us free coffee if we especially need it, let us IOU lunch if we forget our money, let us stay late working after the school closes if we need to, and really make UDM a wonderful place to become a dentist. They push us really hard and expect an awful lot, but it makes a difference when we graduate. Generally the students seem really happy here, and it's nice to be in place where the students are eager to learn and very bright, and the faculty loves what they do and want to help you in any way they can.
I think a personal relationship with faculty is something UDM is noted for. I am completing my undergrad at a university w/smaller classes where you're known personally by the staff, not just a random face in a lecture hall. I prefer learning in that type of environment. You're info has been very helpful.
More dental clinic patients?!
Not sure what will happen. My dad (and other family members) have lived w/the ups & downs of the automotive business my whole life. I wasn't going to add that into the mix for decision making...I'm already agonizing enough over my decision.- Joined
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This might be worth checking out before you decide:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=584142
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=584142
That whole thread is a real eye opener. Thanks.
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Just throwing my opinion out there...If the cost was the same (or if $ is no object), I'd probably agree with the "no brainer" comment (siding with UDM). UDM is an amazing school with an amazing facility, (mostly) great professors, and offers exactly the type of education I am seeking, but the reality is that it costs much more.
Regarding boards...We were told about a month ago (by one of the department chairs) that only 1 or 2 UDM students didn't pass their boards compared to 30+ from UM (I do not have documentation). Do not underestimate the level of intelligence of the student body here...I often feel lucky to be surrounded by so many bright people.
Lastly, our class is awesome...a day doesn't go by that we do not receive a study aid, flash cards, or random tips for a quiz or exam from someone in the class via mass email.
All of this being said, I'm sure that UM is a great school and offers other benefits (such as research, Ann Arbor in general, the big U feel) that you may not find at UDM. Just decide based on the things that are most important to you. Personally, I really like it here at UDM.
Good luck!
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Go with the least expensive, your patients will not know where you went unless you tell them so the name of the school is not benefical.
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HAHAHAHA 30+??? That is blatant misinformation. There were 5 that did not pass their boards. 104/109 people passed, which I think is slightly below the national average.
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I guess you can't always believe what you're told, but for the sake of clarity, I'll ask a few questions and repost what I hear. We are talking passing on the 1st time attempt, right? My apologies if the information is incorrect.
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Hey
Im starting to have some doubts about my decision. I just sent in my deposit for Michigan. Im from the midwest and was born in Michigan. It has always been a dream to attend Michigan. That played a pretty important role in my decision. Im pretty confident that I could, with alot of determination, become a great clinical dentist with an education from Michigan. If not, I plan on doing a gpr. I would like to get involved with research but my main focus would be on clinics and outreach programs.
With that being said, Can anyone give insights on how professors are at Michigan? Are they friendly, approachable, and willing to work with you? or are they concerned more on their own research. I dont want to go to a school and end up struggling and eventually get kicked out.I am not sure how great I will be with my hand skills so it might be an uphill battle.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Im starting to have some doubts about my decision. I just sent in my deposit for Michigan. Im from the midwest and was born in Michigan. It has always been a dream to attend Michigan. That played a pretty important role in my decision. Im pretty confident that I could, with alot of determination, become a great clinical dentist with an education from Michigan. If not, I plan on doing a gpr. I would like to get involved with research but my main focus would be on clinics and outreach programs.
With that being said, Can anyone give insights on how professors are at Michigan? Are they friendly, approachable, and willing to work with you? or are they concerned more on their own research. I dont want to go to a school and end up struggling and eventually get kicked out.I am not sure how great I will be with my hand skills so it might be an uphill battle.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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although I have not been accepted to Michigan yet, but now I am really learning towards UDM.
Everyone around me was telling me to go to U of M if I get accepted there but more I think about it my experience at UDM was truly amazing and all of my friends attending UDM now love the school.
But I must say both are excellent schools.
Everyone around me was telling me to go to U of M if I get accepted there but more I think about it my experience at UDM was truly amazing and all of my friends attending UDM now love the school.
But I must say both are excellent schools.
I know what you mean about many people saying to go to U of M, but in all honesty most of those people are not pre-dents or they are people that don't know much about UDM. They just know the Michigan name. I keep trying to talk myself out of UDM due to the higher tuition, but I keep going back to the excellent clinic opportunities, the caring staff, and the fact that I'm not interested in publishing (or helping somebody else publish) research. Good luck on your decision, but I think I'm going to have to agree w/your friends that attend UDM and will probably make it my choice as well.
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Hey all,
I got accepted into both programs and have been debated this issue as well. However, I believe I am now settling on Michigan. While I couldn't agree more about UDM being a great clinical program, I question all of you who state that UDM has a better reputation than U of M. Whenever I mention that I got accepted to both programs, everyone (including dentists) has shown a greater respect when I say Michigan. If you are interested in specializing (which I may be), Michigan is the way to go. They have a better name, bottom line, which stands above anything UDM can offer.
Money is also a big factor...saving 60,000 dollars (15,000 a year difference) is huge coming out of dental school.
A big reason for my decision is that I believe I will be happier at U of M. I was far more exited receiving the acceptance call from Michigan than UDM. That seems to say something... Plus, Ann Arbor is a far superior city than Detroit. It is an actual college town with plenty to offer outside of the dental school. I went to undergrad at a smaller college and want a big university feel. Detroit is far from that. I don't want to get an appartment in Royal Oak, it does not come close to what AA has to offer.
It would be nice to get some feedback on my points because I haven't read any post leaning towards Michigan over UDM in this thread...
I got accepted into both programs and have been debated this issue as well. However, I believe I am now settling on Michigan. While I couldn't agree more about UDM being a great clinical program, I question all of you who state that UDM has a better reputation than U of M. Whenever I mention that I got accepted to both programs, everyone (including dentists) has shown a greater respect when I say Michigan. If you are interested in specializing (which I may be), Michigan is the way to go. They have a better name, bottom line, which stands above anything UDM can offer.
Money is also a big factor...saving 60,000 dollars (15,000 a year difference) is huge coming out of dental school.
A big reason for my decision is that I believe I will be happier at U of M. I was far more exited receiving the acceptance call from Michigan than UDM. That seems to say something... Plus, Ann Arbor is a far superior city than Detroit. It is an actual college town with plenty to offer outside of the dental school. I went to undergrad at a smaller college and want a big university feel. Detroit is far from that. I don't want to get an appartment in Royal Oak, it does not come close to what AA has to offer.
It would be nice to get some feedback on my points because I haven't read any post leaning towards Michigan over UDM in this thread...
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Both schools are awesome but I disagree with some of your reasonings.
Specializing, doesn't matter which one you go to, if you are determined and you perform well throughout dental school, the name of the school shouldn't matter. So, that's just your assumption of thinking that going to U of M would provide a better route for specializing. And for respect, I'm not sure this is the right reason to disregard one school over the other. Graduates from both program will be well respected, you can't just flat out say you will be more respected as a dentist if you graduate from U of M Vs. UDM. That's just thinking stereotypically.
For living in the D-area, I am currently a Detroit resident and it's not as bad as people say. I live right across from DIA (art museum, mid-town) which is 5 minutes away from the UDM facility, I wouldn't go too far saying that Detroit just sucks ass compared to AA. Detroit has plenty of things to do in downtown if you are willing to go out during dental school. Ex. Baseball games, football games, bars, casinos, eateries, etc.
But as a Michigan resident, it is a smart idea to choose U of M since you get in-state tuition and save lots and lots of $$$. Pros I have found about U of M are
1. Big name school, known for their excellence in research.
2. Cheap tuition Vs. Private tuition.
Cons are:
1. Ann arbor is expensive to live and parking might be a biatch compared to UDM. Although that may be something small but we'll be there for 4 years so little things can add up.
I haven't heard back from U of M yet but I am also having troubles deciding between the two if I hear back from them. But since I am applying for the Navy or AF scholarship program, I am considering the two schools without the tuition factor.
This is getting too long, maybe someone else can jump on it.
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Wow... if 30+ out of 110 students didn't pass the boards at Michigan, a school known for their strong didactics, something would be very very wrong.
According to the info sheet they gave me at my interview during last cycle (have it right in front of me now), they had a failure rate of 3.7% during that year (2006) so that is only a handful of peeps. The national fail rate was 8.6% during that year as well. Additionally, UM had a 86.25 average compared to the 85.49 national average.
And in regards to that lawsuit... I don't think that should have any factor in a decision either way. It seems as though that was one isolated incident a few years back. Many students on these boards who knew her seem to side with the school which just didn't document enough and follow standards before removing here from the program.
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Just an update...
From my October interview: UM had an 82.5 on Part 1 compared to the national average of 82.9
Someone above wanted reasons to go to michigan so I'll try and make a case for you. UDM is more of a commuter school whereas Michigan students will all be in Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor really is superior to Detroit culturally. It has sports, bars, concerts, theater, festivals, pot-smoking rallys (Hash-bash!) all stuffed into a small area. Detroit isn't dead, but it takes more effort to go out there. Its almost like you have to actively seek out a good time there, whereas in Ann Arbor it just happens. As far as getting good clinic cases at Michigan, there is a low income area (Ypsilanti) about 10 minutes away where I think many of the patients come from. Also, you have the benefits of a full university versus just one building in the middle of the hood. Both schools are good, but very different. If you're planning on practicing out of the state of Michigan I would tell you to go to Michigan. Its known to patients and the general public nationally, UDM is not on that level. So thats my pitch for Michigan.
Btw Im playing devil's advocate because I would pick UDM.
I would agree that UDM does not have the reputation nationally, but most people that I talk to in MI know that UDM is reputable. Just out of curiosity, why would you pick UDM? I see by your profile you attend UofM.
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Ann Arbor is superior to Detroit if you are still in that college drunken frat boy stage/mentality, but if you are a professional adult Detroit has much more to offer. It is one of the largest US cities, and has amazing cultural, art, science, etc. events. And if you still want to enjoy the occasional regression into the college level of behavior, Ann Arbor is only a 30 minute drive down I94.
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The very day I interviewed at UDM, 30 UofM students were retaking the clinical portion of the boards, not FAILING, the whole thing. I couldn't go into the clinic because of it.
We were told by the Dean that UDM ranked top 2 in overall NERB scores for the Northeast last year. I'm pretty sure he said top 2...back me up JamieMac. Not sure about actual scores.
If money isn't a factor, like you will be in the Military, I would go to UDM. I am very happy at UDM.
As far as partying, you won't be an Undergrad anymore and the studying is more intense. Most people party with the class, so they don't really "look for good times" on the streets of Detroit/Royal Oak. If the party scene is your major concern, that's pretty lame.
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Oh please, this is comment is completely off the wall. Ann Arbor is consistently ranked as one of the top cities to live in the COUNTRY and THE top city to live in MI. There are a ton of parks, top-rated public schools, awesome restaurants, micro breweries, and awesome cultural festivals. I'll be the first to defend detroit when people call it a dangerous hell hole, but saying AA is some drunk frat town and detroit is some mature metropolis isn't even close to on track.
Now, UDM vs UM, eh, I don't think it'll matter. Just because AA is a well-off city, doesn't mean people don't drive into the city for care at the clinic. As far as this research-only idea at UofM, I know a lot of people that go there, and while there most certainly are research opportunities, you don't HAVE to do it. You can just as easily choose to spend your time focusing on something else...like rotations at the awesome number of community outreach clinics all over the state.
UDM, yes, you'll have great clinical options. But you will at UofM, too.
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Where did you feel most at home? Which place had students whom you best related with? This IS where you will spend the next four years. Ultimately, at the end of the day your name will be Doctor and you will do what it takes by tailoring your education to optimize your professional development/needs.
