Is this a normal shadowing experience?

[zukunft195]

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I'm a non-trad pre-DO student, and I've been looking for shadowing experiences. There are fairly few DO physicians in my area, so I had been struggling to find somebody.

I recently found a DO who was willing to let me shadow him. Today, he let me shadow him for one patient visit.

Here is what happened during the session: The DO performed acupuncture on the patient, putting needles in various limbs and asking her if her joints felt better or worse. The DO then waved his hands over the patient's body in order to sense the patient's "chakra energy." Throughout the session, the DO ranted to me in a very condescending tone about how various "Western medicines" have failed the patient and why traditional Oriental treatments are the only thing that can possibly help her.

It honestly felt like the DO was trying to show the patient how smart he was by Socratically lecturing me in front of her. At one point, he asked me a difficult medical question that he must have known I could not answer. I responded with nervous laughter, and he looked at me with a serious expression and sternly said, "Do you see me laughing? It's not funny. When you don't know the answer to a question, don't say anything. That's the first rule of practicing medicine." It was rough, and it really sucked to have a patient witness all of it.

So... Is this a normal shadowing experience? Should I continue shadowing this DO physician, or would it be better to shadow an MD? Also, would adcoms appreciate an LoR from a physician with... uhh, heterodox views? (To be honest, given this physician's personality, I'm not sure if I'd even be able to get a positive LoR from him).

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[melaninmonroe]

Whoa the DO I worked with (though she was a psychiatrist) was not at all like that! However a MD neurosurgeon I shadowed was a nightmare to be around, very condescending and acted as if I was an annoyance. I ended not bothering him for a letter and got the DO to write me a glowing one instead

 

[Grannywang]

Was he calcifying the patient's pineal gland and opening her kundalini chakras? haha. I would say to look for another DO to shadow and probably don't use him for a letter of reference...maybe write about the experience in parts of your secondary.

 

[California Bear]

I've had similar experiences with the DO I shadowed (him being an east coast intellectual and asking difficult questions), so I learned to keep my mouth shut and be cognizant of what I know and don't know.

I suggest that you attend more shadowing sessions and see how it goes from there. It takes a while for some physicians to build rapport with their mentees.

 

[zukunft195]

Whoa the DO I worked with (though she was a psychiatrist) was not at all like that! However a MD neurosurgeon I shadowed was a nightmare to be around, very condescending and acted as if I was an annoyance. I ended not bothering him for a letter and got the DO to write me a glowing one instead

By "worked with," do you mean shadowed? If so, how were you able to shadow a psychiatrist, considering patient-physician confidentiality is such a major concern when it comes to mental health?

 

[Noxy]

One doctor I shadowed (an MD) asked me difficult questions in front of his patients and had me present findings to his staff...but he was an awesome doctor and it made me get over my nerves quick! He even took a hands on approach and tried to teach me how to do physical exams and had me looking in ears and throats, It was definitely an experience haha. I think every doctor is going to be so different in their approach depending on their personalities and their comfort level. A different doctor I shadowed basically ignored me and told me he thought it was awkward for me to be there but was only doing it as a favor for one of his office staff who agreed to let me shadow before asking him. I wouldn't want a letter from someone I didn't click with. You can always mention you shadowed a DO, even if you did not receive a letter from him.

 

[melaninmonroe]

Sorry yes "worked with" meaning shadowed,however I work in the same department as the DO and just reached out to her to shadow. Perhaps since I was already on staff it was easier but the normal procedure is a ton of paperwork and consent from the patients

 

[zukunft195]

Sorry yes "worked with" meaning shadowed,however I work in the same department as the DO and just reached out to her to shadow. Perhaps since I was already on staff it was easier but the normal procedure is a ton of paperwork and consent from the patients

Oh, OK. That makes sense. Thanks!

 

[Shotapp]

I'm kind of surprised that no body has questioned the DO's method of practice. Waving his hand over the patient to sense their chakra? What kind of doc is this? I would honestly look elsewhere.

 

[California Bear]

I'm kind of surprised that no body has questioned the DO's method of practice. Waving his hand over the patient to sense their chakra? What kind of doc is this? I would honestly look elsewhere.

When I read that at first, all I could think about was Naruto

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Lol yeah that's not normal. Find someone else who isn't a nut job.

 

[DoctorDOWell]

you got a legit experience of traditional chinese and indian medicine mate. i'm always entertained by people who so readily discount such energetic systems of healing.... when, what exactly is the fundamental make up of us organisms? oh that's right: organisms > organ systems > organ > multiple tissues > tissue > multiple cells > cell > molecules > atoms (holy moly, we are scientifically a sea of atoms, chemically transferring and transmuting energy..... whaaaaa!!!????) hehe

it is truly valuable to see how (1) the standard of medical care (drugs and surgery) absolutely will not help every one with every condition, perfectly-- and (2) there are complimentary and alternative medicines that legitimately bridge that gap and offer real hope to those so desperately seeking relief in whatever capacity.

the fact that he was so stern and coarse, sounded a little much for my liking... but the fact of the matter is there are abundant evidence-based practices, substantiated in the literature (pubmed search acupuncture and.... [x condition].... and you'll be met with a whole world of evidence-based practice and standards of care-- step out of your narrow minded ethnocentrism). and whether you wanna debate the power of the mind, and placebo.... whatever imo. time is the best standard, and those practices you witnessed are the literal definition of ancient.

personally (and especially if he doesn't incorporate standard allopathic practices, such as integrating pharmaceuticals) i'd make this person a minority of your shadowing experience, as i'm almost 100% sure your osteopathic schools are wanting you to see docs who practice in a more mainstream sense. but it's unquestionably a valuable thing you witnessed <3

 

[Coltuna]

I would've taken your experience over my first. He went into every room while I sat at his work station reading old textbooks.

 

[ortnakas]

Not normal. Please don't take this person as a representation of all DOs. Find someone else to shadow.

 

[zukunft195]

I would have busted out laughing in the room if I were shadowing a doc like that. I would be stumped if the doc asked me "do you know where all your chakra points are located?"

Lol. Unfortunately, I'm limited when it comes to my DO shadowing options. There aren't a lot of DOs in my area, so I have to take what I can get.

I know where you're coming from, though. I have no doubt in my mind that the doctor is a charlatan and that he's a disgrace to the osteopathic profession. I'm just trying my best to be practical and to accumulate shadowing hours...

 

[IslandStyle808]

I'd rather get a letter from a sane MD, than a letter from this dude (if you can't find a DO). I had friends who got in even without any DO letter. Don't put yourself through this torture again.

 

[ChiefsIntern]

If you are having trouble finding another DO or MD to shadow if you were able to find a mid level it would be better than not shadowing at all.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Sounds like a quack with low self esteem that probably couldn't do real medicine so now he peddles garbage because it's easier than using his brain.

 

[CastleG8]

Not buying any of this.

 

[zukunft195]

Not buying any of this.

You have trouble believing that there are physicians out there who buy into alternative medicine nonsense and who are full of themselves?