Is this a specialty?

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RoyBasch

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I realize this is a really stupid question:

Is there an "orthopaedist" specialty that is non-surgical? If so what is the post-graduate training progression for this path? I find the musculoskeletal system very interesting but I have pretty low interest in surgery, so I was wondering if such a specialty exists.
-Roy
 
podiatry?
 
RoyBasch said:
I realize this is a really stupid question:

Is there an "orthopaedist" specialty that is non-surgical? If so what is the post-graduate training progression for this path? I find the musculoskeletal system very interesting but I have pretty low interest in surgery, so I was wondering if such a specialty exists.
-Roy
Click to expand...

ortho is a surgical specialty. You can do work with musculoskeletal rehab in PM&R or by doing sports medicine through FM. As mentioned above there is some overlap between ortho and podiatry (a non-MD/DO field). But I wouldn't write off surgical fields until you get a chance to experience them in med school -- a number of people in each med school class who start out thinking they are "non-surgical" types end up loving it.
 
A PCP doc I once shadowed told me that rheumatology is basically non-surgical ortho.
 
Along with the specialties already mentioned, I would add rheumatology and occupational medicine. Some aspects of neurology also focus on gait and movement in making a diagnosis.

Outside of medicine, physical therapy and occupational therapy focus on the musculoskeletal system. The research being done in the field (by PhDs in physical therapy) is remarkable and uses a lot of gadgets (some made "in house") to measure reactions to outside forces, electrical impuses in muscles (using fine wires inserted into the tissue) and all sorts of interesting stuff that will be brought to bear to improve treatments for people at risk for falls, those with cerebal palsy, strokes, etc. Its a great field for those who enjoy applied physics.
 
MrBurns10 said:
😕

That's the strangest comparison I've ever heard. The fields most similar to a non-surg ortho were mentioned by L2D.
Click to expand...

A rheumatologist is an internist or pediatrician who is qualified by additional training and experience in the diagnosis and treatment of arthritis and other diseases of the joints, muscles and bones. Many rheumatologists conduct research to determine the cause and better treatments for these disabling and sometimes fatal diseases.
What kind of training do rheumatologists have?

After four years of medical school and three years of training in either internal medicine or pediatrics, rheumatologists devote an additional two to three years in specialized rheumatology training. Most rheumatologists who plan to treat patients choose to become board certified. Upon completion of their training, they must pass a rigorous exam conducted by the American Board of Internal Medicine to become certified.
What do rheumatologists treat?

Rheumatologists treat arthritis, certain autoimmune diseases, musculoskeletal pain disorders and osteoporosis. There are more than 100 types of these diseases, including rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, gout, lupus, back pain, osteoporosis, fibromyalgia and tendonitis. Some of these are very serious diseases that can be difficult to diagnose and treat.
 
shnuffles said:
A rheumatologist is an internist or pediatrician who is qualified by additional training and experience in the diagnosis and treatment of arthritis and other diseases of the joints, muscles and bones. Many rheumatologists conduct research to determine the cause and better treatments for these disabling and sometimes fatal diseases.
What kind of training do rheumatologists have?

After four years of medical school and three years of training in either internal medicine or pediatrics, rheumatologists devote an additional two to three years in specialized rheumatology training. Most rheumatologists who plan to treat patients choose to become board certified. Upon completion of their training, they must pass a rigorous exam conducted by the American Board of Internal Medicine to become certified.
What do rheumatologists treat?

Rheumatologists treat arthritis, certain autoimmune diseases, musculoskeletal pain disorders and osteoporosis. There are more than 100 types of these diseases, including rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, gout, lupus, back pain, osteoporosis, fibromyalgia and tendonitis. Some of these are very serious diseases that can be difficult to diagnose and treat.
Click to expand...

Both deal with joint pain, but the comparison ends there -- the immunological aspects make them very very different. PM&R is probably the closest to ortho minus the surgery because both will deal with the mechanics.
 
shnuffles said:
A rheumatologist is an internist or pediatrician who is qualified by additional training and experience in the diagnosis and treatment of arthritis and other diseases of the joints, muscles and bones. Many rheumatologists conduct research to determine the cause and better treatments for these disabling and sometimes fatal diseases.
What kind of training do rheumatologists have?

After four years of medical school and three years of training in either internal medicine or pediatrics, rheumatologists devote an additional two to three years in specialized rheumatology training. Most rheumatologists who plan to treat patients choose to become board certified. Upon completion of their training, they must pass a rigorous exam conducted by the American Board of Internal Medicine to become certified.
What do rheumatologists treat?

Rheumatologists treat arthritis, certain autoimmune diseases, musculoskeletal pain disorders and osteoporosis. There are more than 100 types of these diseases, including rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, gout, lupus, back pain, osteoporosis, fibromyalgia and tendonitis. Some of these are very serious diseases that can be difficult to diagnose and treat.
Click to expand...
You know, even on my peds rheum rotation I was never quite sure what a rheumatologist does. But now...

Yes, rheumatologists deal with diseases that affect the MSK system. But they're medical treatments to treat medical illnesses (e.g. steroids for lupus). To say they're "most similar" to orthopedists, who deal with injuries, deformities, etc is not even close to accurate.
 
MrBurns10 said:
You know, even on my peds rheum rotation I was never quite sure what a rheumatologist does. But now...

Yes, rheumatologists deal with diseases that affect the MSK system. But they're medical treatments to treat medical illnesses (e.g. steroids for lupus). To say they're "most similar" to orthopedists, who deal with injuries, deformities, etc is not even close to accurate.
Click to expand...

I agree and I definitely would never say that ortho and rheumatology are "most similar," but I wanted to point out the probable reason for such a comparison. I also thought it might be of interest to the OP because I think he mentioned his interest in the MSK system.
 
Law2Doc said:
ortho is a surgical specialty. You can do work with musculoskeletal rehab in PM&R or by doing sports medicine through FM. As mentioned above there is some overlap between ortho and podiatry (a non-MD/DO field). But I wouldn't write off surgical fields until you get a chance to experience them in med school -- a number of people in each med school class who start out thinking they are "non-surgical" types end up loving it.
Click to expand...

You can now do sports medicine through multiple specialties. FM is one. Peds and I believe EM can also do sports medicine.
 
Musculoskeletal (used to be "Orthopedic") Radiology
 
I used to think that Rheumatology was very musculoskeletal based until I really got to clinical years. rheum is much more internal medicine than a structural specialist. The only thing musculoskeletal about it, as well as about neuro, is in the physical exam. Besides what's been mentioned (PM&R, Occupational, Sports via FM), you can also get to sports medicine through internal medicine and emergency medicine. (only specialty I know with 4 standard avenues of entry)
 
Yes, there is a non-surgical orthopaedic specialty. It's called "sports medicine" and it's generally a post-primary-care fellowship.

You will know what a rheumatologist does when you have a patient with rheumatoid arthritis or mixed connective tissue disease who doesn't respond to methotrexate or hydroxychloroquine and you just don't know how to help the suffering patient. That's when you call in the rheumatologist and you'll be very glad that he knows a lot of things about autoimmune diseases that you don't know...
 
Coug42 said:
Musculoskeletal (used to be "Orthopedic") Radiology
Click to expand...
I totally forgot about MSK Rads. It's a great specialty for those who are interested in orthopedics but don't like the lifestyle or the surgical nature of the field. In MSK you are in contact frequently with ortho surgeons, do some procedures, and can even get involved with sports teams.
 
Law2Doc said:
Both deal with joint pain, but the comparison ends there -- the immunological aspects make them very very different. PM&R is probably the closest to ortho minus the surgery because both will deal with the mechanics.
Click to expand...

100% agree. Many falsely believe that rheumatology deals with ANYTHING non-surgical MSK and that is simply not true. Boundaries blur at times, but as a rule L2D is on point, rheum deals more with immunological/autoimmune diseases that happen to affect the musculoskeletal system. Rheumatology is a specialty within INTERNAL MEDICINE; IM often turfs anything related to MSK as movement disorders/biomechanics/overuse/sports injuries are rarely, if ever, dealt with in the IM setting.

Ortho is obviously surgical MSK. If you want straight non-surg MSK with no fellowship, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation (PM&R) is your best option. If you like primary care, FM + Sports fellowship is probably the most common route of all non-surgical MSK care. EM/IM/Peds/PM&R can all sit for the Sports Med boards along with FM.
 
MrBurns10 said:
I totally forgot about MSK Rads. It's a great specialty for those who are interested in orthopedics but don't like the lifestyle or the surgical nature of the field. In MSK you are in contact frequently with ortho surgeons, do some procedures, and can even get involved with sports teams.
Click to expand...

True, but ortho is a very hands on the patient kind of field, whereas radiology is most often consultation based on imaging. And ortho surgeons like to think they can read their own films, so there is some friction at some centers.
 
For you guys who are suggesting podiatry and physical therapy, I am starting medical school in 2 months. I didn't know you could do sports medicine fellowship through EM, I thought it was just FM. That's good to know because I'm also fairly interested in EM.
-Roy
 
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