Is this cheating/academic misconduct?

[Shinobiz11]

My friend is taking a online class and his instructor gives him 2 quizzes based on two chapters everyday. The quizzes aren't timed and they are open note as well. He obviously uses his notes and book for help, but sometimes he Google's the questions and finds a review (based on the same book, with the same questions and answers). Is this considered cheating or being resourceful. I am asking on his be-half because he was bragging about it today and I thought he was going to get in trouble. I don't really care if he does get in trouble, it's his fault for his actions, just wanted to know if what he is doing is okay. Also, there are no exams for his class, so basically he has no need to study for those.😕

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[Poliscidoc]

Nope he is just smart and resourceful

 

[orthomyxo]

That's being resourceful. More power to him if he's actually learning the stuff.

 

[Elpenor]

Searching for the answer to your question on this forum is in fact cheating. I advise you to stop reading this now and seek out the local library for the answer to your question.

 

[DocBell]

My friend is taking a online class and his instructor gives him 2 quizzes based on two chapters everyday. The quizzes aren't timed and they are open note as well. He obviously uses his notes and book for help, but sometimes he Google's the questions and finds a review (based on the same book, with the same questions and answers). Is this considered cheating or being resourceful. I am asking on his be-half because he was bragging about it today and I thought he was going to get in trouble. I don't really care if he does get in trouble, it's his fault for his actions, just wanted to know if what he is doing is okay. Also, there are no exams for his class, so basically he has no need to study for those.😕

Unless the instructor specifically clarified no google if it is open book open notes I am pretty sure your friend is fine.

 

[Shinobiz11]

OK thanks for the input, I'll let him know.

Btw, he is the type of idiot who would go around telling everyone about his amazing resourcefulness of using the internet. Just wanted to him to stay on track. Thanks. 🙂

 

[BigRedder]

I wouldn't broadcast it, but it is fine. It's the instructors own fault for not coming up with better questions.

 

[aspiringOSTEO]

1

 

[Vadoff]

Open book is open book. What else can you say?

 

[aspiringOSTEO]

1

 

[cclewis]

My friend is taking a online class and his instructor gives him 2 quizzes based on two chapters everyday. The quizzes aren't timed and they are open note as well. He obviously uses his notes and book for help, but sometimes he Google's the questions and finds a review (based on the same book, with the same questions and answers). Is this considered cheating or being resourceful. I am asking on his be-half because he was bragging about it today and I thought he was going to get in trouble. I don't really care if he does get in trouble, it's his fault for his actions, just wanted to know if what he is doing is okay. Also, there are no exams for his class, so basically he has no need to study for those.😕

No

 

[Ottovon]

The OP wishes he was in his friend's position. I also bet the OP had an inner desire that his friend WAS actually doing something wrong hahahaha

 

[ModernAlchemist]

Open note? Everyday, I realize more and more that I should have gone to an easier undergrad.

 

[HotGhettoMess]

Are you sure you're not really asking on your own behalf and just using the "my friend" scenario as a cover-up? You seem awfully concerned about something so insignificant when it would be your "friend's" ass on the line, not yours. Just sayin'. 😛

 

[Asyouwereatrio]

I would say it is not okay to do so IF the "open-notes" rule is restricted to only notes, databases, etc. from class material...no computers allowed. If the prof is allowing internet usage on laptops and stuff...then I guess it's okay.

 

[DiamondBar]

The OP wishes he was in his friend's position. I also bet the OP had an inner desire that his friend WAS actually doing something wrong hahahaha

Haha, I was thinking the exact same..
There are always people like that

 

[cfx]

Am I the only one that finds this sketchy?

It's not that the guy is simply googling the topic. The questions are clearly from a question bank, and he's googling to find the EXACT question, and using a provided answer to that question. It's not the same as open note/book, where you are forced to read through the material and demonstrate some understanding of what you read. It's essentially no different than someone giving this guy the answers to his homework problems, or looking up the answer in the back of the book and writing it down as your own w/o doing the work. I doubt is what the instructor had in mind.

 

[Poliscidoc]

Am I the only one that finds this sketchy?

It's not that the guy is simply googling the topic. The questions are clearly from a question bank, and he's googling to find the EXACT question, and using a provided answer to that question. It's not the same as open note/book, where you are forced to read through the material and demonstrate some understanding of what you read. It's essentially no different than someone giving this guy the answers to his homework problems, or looking up the answer in the back of the book and writing it down as your own w/o doing the work. I doubt is what the instructor had in mind.

If the question bank is online and the professor was to lazy to make a test that cant simply be googled. Then there is no problem. This is no different than a person getting old test from the instructor or former students.

 

[cfx]

If the question bank is online and the professor was to lazy to make a test that cant simply be googled. Then there is no problem. This is no different than a person getting old test from the instructor or former students.

But a professor's "laziness"/lack of awareness isn't an excuse to act unethically.

Say, for example, that you're doing a math problem set. Obviously, you can use your notes/text as reference while you work the problems. But, your professor never explicitly stated "do your own work, don't just copy the answers from the back of the book," or perhaps they were completely unaware that the answers were even available. Does that mean it's okay to mindlessly copy all answers down without working the problems yourself?


Also, there definitely is a problem with getting an old test from previous students when the professor reuses the tests/questions (which is what would be most analogous to this case). That would definitely be cheating.

 

[koennen]

I love these "my friend ... " questions. Seriously, have the balls to write in the first person. You really don't think anyone believes you are writing about "a friend," do you?

 

[jasin]

I would not go around bragging about that, but its not cheating. Cheating would be like peeking at your book during a closed book exam.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Have any of you ever taken an online course? I have had several classes that have both proctored tests, timed tests, unlimited-time test, etc... Some are open, some are not... Typically, if they want to restrict the amount of searching you can do, they will time the test so you only have about 30sec-1mn to answer each question, if not, they don't care what the resources are. Also, the questions could come from a bank, but that isn't necessarily so, frequently the prof writes 10 questions per quiz or something, so they are unique to each quiz... It's not cheating, it's not even close... doubt the kid is learning much, but... that's not the question...

 

[LawNonTrad]

No different than using a fraternity's bank of old tests. If the professor re-uses lots of questions on exams and allows former students to keep their old ones, then there's nothing unethical about studying from a buddy's old exams who took the class a year or two before. It is the professor's responsibility to change their exam questions from semester to semester.

Other people who don't have access to the same resources may detest people for it, but there's nothing unethical about it.

 

[flip26]

"Open book / notes" is not the same as obtaining help from other sources or other people.

Sounds like cheating to me. Your "friend" should review the school honor code.

 

[cfx]

No different than using a fraternity's bank of old tests. If the professor re-uses lots of questions on exams and allows former students to keep their old ones, then there's nothing unethical about studying from a buddy's old exams who took the class a year or two before. It is the professor's responsibility to change their exam questions from semester to semester.

Other people who don't have access to the same resources may detest people for it, but there's nothing unethical about it.

WTF? How is this not unethical? Sounds like a lame attempt to shift responsibility and rationalize cheating. I can guarantee that if a professor ever found out about this, it would absolutely have consequences as academic dishonesty.

"It's the professor's fault" is such a bull**** excuse. No one here has a sense of personal responsibility or integrity? You have to be explicitly told not to do something in order for it to be wrong?

 

[LawNonTrad]

WTF? How is this not unethical? Sounds like a lame attempt to shift responsibility and rationalize cheating. I can guarantee that if a professor ever found out about this, it would absolutely have consequences as academic dishonesty.

"It's the professor's fault" is such a bull**** excuse. No one here has a sense of personal responsibility or integrity? You have to be explicitly told not to do something in order for it to be wrong?

Calm down. First of all, if the professor doesn't explicitly prohibit it, then there's absolutely nothing unethical about it. The burden is on you to prove that it is.

I never said that it was the professor's "fault. I said that it is the professor's "responsibility" to change the exams. Most professors at my undergrad institution did in fact regularly change their exams. FYI, the couple of professors I am thinking of that didn't change them KNEW about the test banks and could have easily made this a non-issue by updating their tests. I know this because one of the students (who didn't have access to the tests) actually complained to the professor that there were a bunch of high grades. I thought this complaint to be particularly unwarranted considering that this test was not even curved, so our success on the exam had no impact on his net score. And the professor basically ignored him. I liked the guy -- he knew people kept his old exams but he didn't want to change the exam.

Again, how is this cheating? Don't confuse this with someone sneaking past exams out of the testing room and someone else using those exams to study from later. The professor in question returned the exams with the grades. Are you saying that people who hold on to their exams are breaking the rules and should immediately shred them once the semester is over?

 

[Shinobiz11]

HAHA, ok thanks y'all for your wonderful and funny responses.
It's not me who is taking the class first of all, and now that I see this as somewhat acceptable, I think I am going to take this class, get an easy A, btw its sociology.

In any case, I agree with both sides. It is technically cheating, but the Prof. never said no Google, therefore it is ok.

EDIT*** sry for posting so late, I have been at school and doing homework for most of the day.

 

[gravitywave]

holy ****

the cavalier attitude in this thread towards this kind of behavior speaks volumes about the current state of higher education.

how is this not cheating? every single one of you who believes that this is acceptable, needs to go re-read (or maybe just read, since it seems likely you never have in the first place) the academic integrity code for your institution.

for example, an excerpt from the University of Michigan's site @ http://www.lsa.umich.edu/saa/standards/acadjudic.html

"Plagiarism is representing someone else's ideas, words, statements or other works as one's own without proper acknowledgment or citation. Examples of plagiarism are... orrowing facts, statistics, or other illustrative material without proper reference, unless the information is common knowledge, in common public use."

oh, but you say "It's the Internet, bro! That's 'common public use.'" wrong.

"Students may not use Internet source material, in whole or in part, without careful and specific reference to the source. All utilization of the Internet must be thoroughly documented."

this **** is really clear-cut, folks. academic work is not a game of oneupsmanship. it's not you vs. your professors in a free for all. this isn't adam smith's video game. your programs, all of them, have expectations that you will do your own work, earn your own marks. if you don't, you stand to reap the consequences.

if you aren't scared ****less of committing academic dishonesty every time you are putting an assignment together, you aren't doing it right.

 

[Shinobiz11]

holy ****

the cavalier attitude in this thread towards this kind of behavior speaks volumes about the current state of higher education.

how is this not cheating? every single one of you who believes that this is acceptable, needs to go re-read (or maybe just read, since it seems likely you never have in the first place) the academic integrity code for your institution.

for example, an excerpt from the University of Michigan's site @ http://www.lsa.umich.edu/saa/standards/acadjudic.html

"Plagiarism is representing someone else's ideas, words, statements or other works as one's own without proper acknowledgment or citation. Examples of plagiarism are... orrowing facts, statistics, or other illustrative material without proper reference, unless the information is common knowledge, in common public use."

oh, but you say "It's the Internet, bro! That's 'common public use.'" wrong.

"Students may not use Internet source material, in whole or in part, without careful and specific reference to the source. All utilization of the Internet must be thoroughly documented."

this **** is really clear-cut, folks. academic work is not a game of oneupsmanship. it's not you vs. your professors in a free for all. this isn't adam smith's video game. your programs, all of them, have expectations that you will do your own work, earn your own marks. if you don't, you stand to reap the consequences.

if you aren't scared ****less of committing academic dishonesty every time you are putting an assignment together, you aren't doing it right.

hmm..good point

 

[cfx]

holy ****

the cavalier attitude in this thread towards this kind of behavior speaks volumes about the current state of higher education.

how is this not cheating? every single one of you who believes that this is acceptable, needs to go re-read (or maybe just read, since it seems likely you never have in the first place) the academic integrity code for your institution.

for example, an excerpt from the University of Michigan's site @ http://www.lsa.umich.edu/saa/standards/acadjudic.html

"Plagiarism is representing someone else's ideas, words, statements or other works as one's own without proper acknowledgment or citation. Examples of plagiarism are... orrowing facts, statistics, or other illustrative material without proper reference, unless the information is common knowledge, in common public use."

oh, but you say "It's the Internet, bro! That's 'common public use.'" wrong.

"Students may not use Internet source material, in whole or in part, without careful and specific reference to the source. All utilization of the Internet must be thoroughly documented."

this **** is really clear-cut, folks. academic work is not a game of oneupsmanship. it's not you vs. your professors in a free for all. this isn't adam smith's video game. your programs, all of them, have expectations that you will do your own work, earn your own marks. if you don't, you stand to reap the consequences.

if you aren't scared ****less of committing academic dishonesty every time you are putting an assignment together, you aren't doing it right.

👍

You're right. Before I read the responses, I would have guessed that at least 80% of students would see a problem with this scenario. The fact that most don't is really kind of scary.

 

[LawNonTrad]

Eagerly awaiting your response after your personal attacks, cfx. I suspect I'll be waiting awhile.

 

[Isoprop]

Um yeah this is cheating. Your friend is using an unauthorized resource. Open book or open notes means exactly that: your assigned textbook or your lecture notes. It's the same as a previous student telling you the answers to the test.

Pretend like the professor is sitting next to you while you take the exam. Would you still google your answers?

 

[cfx]

Eagerly awaiting your response after your personal attacks, cfx. I suspect I'll be waiting awhile.

I didn't respond because it would be pointless to get into circular debate over this. You stated your opinion, I stated mine, you restated your's, and I'm sure that you can guess what comes next.

You're right, though, a professor who does not bother to write new tests is being lazy, and should probably not be surprised when students seek out and use old tests, especially if they allow them to keep it. But I still don't see how a professor's negligence excuses the students' behavior, or gives them any sort of right to the old tests. If the professor wanted their students to use these old tests, they would give it to them. If every student could just memorize the answers to old questions and regurgitate them when they reappear, what would be the point of giving the test? It certainly isn't testing the students' knowledge anymore. It's no longer their own thought/skill/reasoning that's leading them to the answer, it's someone else's...sounds a lot like cheating.

If the professor reuses their questions, and allows students to keep their tests, they may be careless, and they may be overestimating their students by failing to tell them to not seek out old tests. But I think most people assume that, at some point, adults have their own sense of what's expected and what's right/wrong/iffy to guide their decisions without having to have some authority stand over their shoulder to direct them.

 

[jasin]

It all comes down to what the professor permits not what we consider cheating to be.

 

[LawNonTrad]

I didn't respond because it would be pointless to get into circular debate over this. You stated your opinion, I stated mine, you restated your's, and I'm sure that you can guess what comes next.

You're right, though, a professor who does not bother to write new tests is being lazy, and should probably not be surprised when students seek out and use old tests, especially if they allow them to keep it. But I still don't see how a professor's negligence excuses the students' behavior, or gives them any sort of right to the old tests. If the professor wanted their students to use these old tests, they would give it to them. If every student could just memorize the answers to old questions and regurgitate them when they reappear, what would be the point of giving the test? It certainly isn't testing the students' knowledge anymore. It's no longer their own thought/skill/reasoning that's leading them to the answer, it's someone else's...sounds a lot like cheating.

If the professor reuses their questions, and allows students to keep their tests, they may be careless, and they may be overestimating their students by failing to tell them to not seek out old tests. But I think most people assume that, at some point, adults have their own sense of what's expected and what's right/wrong/iffy to guide their decisions without having to have some authority stand over their shoulder to direct them.

It's not pointless to debate it if you're going to continue to advance the cheating argument in this thread. Again, just because you may view something to be cheating, or even if an objective observer views it as cheating, that doesn't make it cheating. The practical effect of the professor's policies is also irrelevant. Professsor X never changes his exams. He lets students keep the exams and they pass them on to future students. This is a foreseeable consequence of never modifying exam questions and letting students keep old exams. If students choose to be resourceful and study off old exams that past students have maintained in a database, there is nothing morally objectionable about it. Additionally, it doesn't constitute a violation of the honor code at the schools I have attended. It's certainly not plagiarism and it isn't cheating. Is it an advantage? Sure. It's an advantage to have old tests to study from. But the playing field isn't level to begin with. Some students are amazing test takers. Other students are poor test takers. Most fall somewhere in between.

Really, if you want to assign blame for this outcome (and I'm not sure anyone has to be blamed), you have to assign all of the blame to the professor. It's his/her responsibility to update their exams if they want to keep the playing field level. Blaming students for taking advantage of an opportunity while still remaining in compliance with the honor code is just sour grapes.

The key point is that the professor didn't prohibit it. If he had prohibited it, then I wouldn't have looked at them, because then I would have been violation of the honor code. See the difference? Unfortunately, most students still would have looked at the past exams despite being told not to. Again, this problem is easily solved by changing the exam. And I've never heard of a professor limiting the materials that a student can use to study. Obviously students with access to old exams are going to use the old exams to study from, as they should. There's no guarantee that the professor won't change the exam for them, and an intelligent student will study other sources besides the old exams, just in case the professor does change it up.

But the example in the OP is actually distinguishable from the scenario that you and I have been batting back and forth. In the OP's example, the poster's friend was using Google to obtain the answers to the questions posed on the quizzes. This is something that everyone in the class has the opportunity to do. It's an online course, so everyone in the class has internet access. Almost everyone knows how to use Google and quote a sentence to find the matches. If the professor didn't explicitly prohibit this activity, then it's simply an unintended yet foreseeable consequence of not making the effort to come up with your own questions for an exam that you give to students.

 

[gravitywave]

It's not pointless to debate it if you're going to continue to advance the cheating argument in this thread. Again, just because you may view something to be cheating, or even if an objective observer views it as cheating, that doesn't make it cheating. The practical effect of the professor's policies is also irrelevant. Professsor X never changes his exams. He lets students keep the exams and they pass them on to future students. This is a foreseeable consequence of never modifying exam questions and letting students keep old exams. If students choose to be resourceful and study off old exams that past students have maintained in a database, there is nothing morally objectionable about it. Additionally, it doesn't constitute a violation of the honor code at the schools I have attended. It's certainly not plagiarism and it isn't cheating. Is it an advantage? Sure. It's an advantage to have old tests to study from. But the playing field isn't level to begin with. Some students are amazing test takers. Other students are poor test takers. Most fall somewhere in between.

Really, if you want to assign blame for this outcome (and I'm not sure anyone has to be blamed), you have to assign all of the blame to the professor. It's his/her responsibility to update their exams if they want to keep the playing field level. Blaming students for taking advantage of an opportunity while still remaining in compliance with the honor code is just sour grapes.

The key point is that the professor didn't prohibit it. If he had prohibited it, then I wouldn't have looked at them, because then I would have been violation of the honor code. See the difference? Unfortunately, most students still would have looked at the past exams despite being told not to. Again, this problem is easily solved by changing the exam. And I've never heard of a professor limiting the materials that a student can use to study. Obviously students with access to old exams are going to use the old exams to study from, as they should. There's no guarantee that the professor won't change the exam for them, and an intelligent student will study other sources besides the old exams, just in case the professor does change it up.

But the example in the OP is actually distinguishable from the scenario that you and I have been batting back and forth. In the OP's example, the poster's friend was using Google to obtain the answers to the questions posed on the quizzes. This is something that everyone in the class has the opportunity to do. It's an online course, so everyone in the class has internet access. Almost everyone knows how to use Google and quote a sentence to find the matches. If the professor didn't explicitly prohibit this activity, then it's simply an unintended yet foreseeable consequence of not making the effort to come up with your own questions for an exam that you give to students.

my goodness! how sweetly the angels dance upon the head of your pin!

you neglect entirely the fact that university honor codes supersede any individual course regulations. if the student of our example has such a code at his institution as the one I quoted above (and many do now, teh Internets is a bad problem in academia now for just these reasons), it wouldn't matter what the prof failed to prohibit.

your arguments neatly sidestep the spirit of academic integrity codes in favor of a heartfelt embrace of the "Nah nah, nobody told me I couldn't do it" defense. No standards committee would be sympathetic in the event you were caught, i can tell you.

 

[Poliscidoc]

Its all cheating, you have to read the book and that's it! No outside help, you should know the answer before it is asked. I mean we are all premeds and are blessed with 250 IQ's.


Cheaters, down with you all

 

[jasin]

Its all cheating, you have to read the book and that's it! No outside help, you should know the answer before it is asked. I mean we are all premeds and are blessed with 250 IQ's.


Cheaters, down with you all

👎

 

[LawNonTrad]

my goodness! how sweetly the angels dance upon the head of your pin!

you neglect entirely the fact that university honor codes supersede any individual course regulations. if the student of our example has such a code at his institution as the one I quoted above (and many do now, teh Internets is a bad problem in academia now for just these reasons), it wouldn't matter what the prof failed to prohibit.

your arguments neatly sidestep the spirit of academic integrity codes in favor of a heartfelt embrace of the "Nah nah, nobody told me I couldn't do it" defense. No standards committee would be sympathetic in the event you were caught, i can tell you.

The above passages that you quote refer to plagiarism and adoption of the ideas of others without proper attribution.

Like this one that you quote from:

"Students may not use Internet source material, in whole or in part, without careful and specific reference to the source. All utilization of the Internet must be thoroughly documented."

If that's the case, then are you saying that students who use online resources (perhaps an online outline of the material) to help answer a take-home open-book exam are required to list the online outline as a source that helped them answer the question? That seems pretty far-fetched to me. Unless it's an essay format where they expect you to cite sources, I've never heard of a requirement that you cite sources when answering multiple choice or true false or any similar types of questions.

So if it's not a requirement to cite the online outline when using it to help answer questions, then it's also not a requirement to cite the source of the review questions online.

Or maybe I have it all wrong. Would you be okay with this behavior if the student in question appended a note to his exam saying that he utilized the review questions online to help him answer the quiz questions? Then he'd be disclosing his behavior to the professor. Not much the professor could do though. Maybe doing this would encourage professors to change their exams at least once a year?

If a professor is using questions from a commercial source (review book) on an exam without attribution then it is actually the professor who is plagiarizing, albeit not in violation of the student honor code. 😛

I'm not sidestepping the spirit of academic integrity codes. Words like spirit are lofty and sexy, but ultimately useless. If the academic integrity code does not prohibit this behavior, and the professor also chooses/refuses not to regulate it, then it is acceptable.

 

[LawNonTrad]

Um yeah this is cheating. Your friend is using an unauthorized resource. Open book or open notes means exactly that: your assigned textbook or your lecture notes. It's the same as a previous student telling you the answers to the test.

Pretend like the professor is sitting next to you while you take the exam. Would you still google your answers?

Open book can mean different things to different professors - we haven't gotten clarification on what open book means in this particular course. If open book includes the internet, then there's nothing wrong with what the OP's friend did.

If open book includes the internet, then if I was the student in question who knew what the answers could be found on google, and the professor was sitting next to me while I took the exam, then yes, I would use google to find the answers. When he/she asked me what I was doing then I would tell him that he instructed us that we could use every available resource including the internet for this assignment, and that because he didn't tell us that the answers are available online and are not to be used, then that's his/her fault. I would hope that class participation is not a significant percentage of this hypothetical course because I would certainly be getting 0% in that grade section after mentioning this. But it's still within the rules if it's a truly open-book (meaning you can use every available resource except other PEOPLE to answer the questions) exam.

 

[gravitywave]

The above passages that you quote refer to plagiarism and adoption of the ideas of others without proper attribution.

why yes, they do indeed.

If that's the case, then are you saying that students who use online resources (perhaps an online outline of the material) to help answer a take-home open-book exam are required to list the online outline as a source that helped them answer the question? That seems pretty far-fetched to me. Unless it's an essay format where they expect you to cite sources, I've never heard of a requirement that you cite sources when answering multiple choice or true false or any similar types of questions.

consider yourself served. whether you are writing an essay, an exam, a take-home quiz - it don't matter, baby. honor principles like the one i referenced apply all over. OP states

He obviously uses his notes and book for help, but sometimes he Google's the questions and finds a review (based on the same book, with the same questions and answers).

Right there the debate is over. "with the same questions and answers." if you find the answers on the Internet, they can't help but inform your responses to the quiz. ergo, they should be cited. if they aren't, that's plagiarism. black letter (university) law.

So if it's not a requirement to cite the online outline when using it to help answer questions, then it's also not a requirement to cite the source of the review questions online.

i cut this line of reasoning off just now, so we'll move on.

Or maybe I have it all wrong. Would you be okay with this behavior if the student in question appended a note to his exam saying that he utilized the review questions online to help him answer the quiz questions? Then he'd be disclosing his behavior to the professor. Not much the professor could do though. Maybe doing this would encourage professors to change their exams at least once a year?

this would be a pretty gutsy move. it'd put the ball in the prof's court for sure. at that point, with the work submitted, it'd be the prof's call as to whether you should be referred to the committee on academic standards. is that where you'd like to be?

If a professor is using questions from a commercial source (review book) on an exam without attribution then it is actually the professor who is plagiarizing, albeit not in violation of the student honor code. 😛

yep, true, it only applies to students. at least the penalties do. my advice: when you are a student in an undergraduate section, don't advise the professor as to his/her ethical responsibilities.

I'm not sidestepping the spirit of academic integrity codes. Words like spirit are lofty and sexy, but ultimately useless. If the academic integrity code does not prohibit this behavior, and the professor also chooses/refuses not to regulate it, then it is acceptable.

see, what you aren't getting here is that the rules aren't what you would like them to be. you can't argue your way out of them. they are what they are, and their interpretation is well established. your angels will still dance, but you'll still be suspended from your program.

 

[Shinobiz11]

OK, i really didn't expect this to get so out of hand lol. Also, you guys are putting UMich's name under this, someone could do some investigating. I would prefer if he and/or I didn't get in trouble.

 

[jm192]

OK, i really didn't expect this to get so out of hand lol. Also, you guys are putting UMich's name under this, someone could do some investigating. I would prefer if he and/or I didn't get in trouble.

It's IN YOUR SIGNATURE.

 

[gravitywave]

It's IN YOUR SIGNATURE.

yeah.... welcome to the Interwebs ?

 

[LawNonTrad]

why yes, they do indeed.



consider yourself served. whether you are writing an essay, an exam, a take-home quiz - it don't matter, baby. honor principles like the one i referenced apply all over.

I've never heard of anyone doing this. No one cites sources for an open book multiple choice exam. It's not even possible in most cases. It might be your theory as to the best way to approach a situation like the one above, but it's definitely not required.

if you find the answers on the Internet, they can't help but inform your responses to the quiz. ergo, they should be cited. if they aren't, that's plagiarism. black letter (university) law.

It's not black letter university law. I think that's kind of an oxymoron anyway... black letter and university law? Internal university policies change from day to day it seems, and no two colleges have identical policies. It's not like the 3rd restatement of torts, a work that I am unfortunately all too familiar with (sigh).

i cut this line of reasoning off just now, so we'll move on.

I don't think so. Again, it may be your opinion that students are required to cite sources for common knowledge, but I don't think that it is. If someone is taking an open book multiple choice exam then I don't think that citation to the answers is required.

Example: I took intro to microeconomics during my sophomore year of college. Our exams were open book/open notes/internet/whatever (all resources basically except other human being) and 100% multiple-choice. My school has a no-plagiarism policy just like every other college in the United States. Was I obligated under most no-plagiarism policies to document the page of my notes or the page of the textbook where I obtained the answers to the questions? If I researched a principle on Google and found the answer that way, should I have cited the web page? It wasn't required of us and it would be a complete waste of time.

this would be a pretty gutsy move. it'd put the ball in the prof's court for sure. at that point, with the work submitted, it'd be the prof's call as to whether you should be referred to the committee on academic standards. is that where you'd like to be?

No, it's not where I'd like to be, but then again I never would report this to a professor because it's NOT a violation of the honor code at most schools. It is not analogous to looking at another student's paper or plagiarizing from a source. Hypothetically speaking, however, let's say that I did do what I posed above. I'm pretty sure that the professors from my university wouldn't have referred me to the academic standards committee. Even if they had, however, I'm pretty sure that I would have won. This spirit stuff doesn't fly. Colleges have policies for a reason, so that students know what is acceptable and what isn't. Using multiple choice answers from the web on an open-book exam where internet access is allowed is simply resourceful. It's not attributing the ideas of others because they aren't ideas, they are answers.

yep, true, it only applies to students. at least the penalties do. my advice: when you are a student in an undergraduate section, don't advise the professor as to his/her ethical responsibilities.

We were speaking hypothetically, remember? I wouldn't dream of doing such a thing, but this would never come up.

see, what you aren't getting here is that the rules aren't what you would like them to be. you can't argue your way out of them. they are what they are, and their interpretation is well established. your angels will still dance, but you'll still be suspended from your program.

No, that's what you're not getting. I would not be suspended from the program, and there's a reason why the majority of SDN disagrees with you on this and puts the blame, if any should be assigned, on the professor. We're not all a bunch of amoral heathens as you and a couple of others seem to be claiming, at least I know I'm not. I have never cheated on an exam in my life. I've never plagiarized anything. But what do I know, right? I mean one of the two professors that I mentioned earlier who never changed his exams KNEW about it and didn't care. If that anectodal evidence and the other solid opinions in this thread don't convince you that this is much ado about nothing, then I don't know what will.

 

[Shinobiz11]

It's IN YOUR SIGNATURE.

Good job John Wall,you can read. Maybe that year at Kentucky really prepared you for the NBA.

I know it's in my sig, but I am saying that people are associating this "cheating" incident with UMich now and I would prefer to sway away from that.