is this considered cheating?

[masterMood]

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Okay so in a class we have (summer class), our professor said that he would let each student in the class make up 1 question for the quiz that we would have tomorrow. Well, I thought that it would be easier if I sent an e-mail out to the class seeing if they would want to show us their question and their answer through e-mail, and then some douchebag decided to tell the professor, and nwo the professor said that this was cheating. I hope nothing comes from this, but the professor said that this was blatant cheating because he said that he didn't mind if we shared the questions but we elected to share the answers. But i don't see how this is cheating if the whole idea was bad to begin with?

 

[realitybias]

Seems to me it is no different from buying the answer book for a book that the teacher takes the questions from. How'd you get caught?

Tough luck, man.

 

[masterMood]

well i emailed the entire class (about 20 kids), and someone decided to e-mail the professor. I'm just wondering if this is cheating or not, just in case i have to be prepared (though i don't think anything would happen).

 

[RayhanS1282]

That's one lazy ass professor.

 

[star22]

Okay so in a class we have (summer class), our professor said that he would let each student in the class make up 1 question for the quiz that we would have tomorrow. Well, I thought that it would be easier if I sent an e-mail out to the class seeing if they would want to show us their question and their answer through e-mail, and then some douchebag decided to tell the professor, and nwo the professor said that this was cheating. I hope nothing comes from this, but the professor said that this was blatant cheating because he said that he didn't mind if we shared the questions but we elected to share the answers. But i don't see how this is cheating if the whole idea was bad to begin with?

There is nothing stopping the prof from discarding all of those questions and making up his own.... he had to know something like this could happen. So, no harm has been done, IMO.

 

[masterMood]

this is the e-mail he sent to the class:

Due to irregularities (blatant cheating) in the question-writing for
today's quiz, I have decided to write my own questions.

I am sorry that I have to do this. I do not enjoy re-reading 100+ pages
of history either.

The purpose of the course is, in part, to broaden our understanding of the
world and of our culture. We, as Americans, are often accused of being
narrow-minded and parochial. The history text can alleviate this by
broadening our scope of (vicarious) experience.

I wouldn't have minded the sharing of questions for the "quiz" if you
hadn't also elected to share the answers.

Remember, the quiz grades comprise only ten percent of the course grade.
Class participation also comprises ten percent. If you participate in
class (eight of you do participate regularly) you can get all the quiz
answers wrong and still get a 100 (if all other grades are 100).

Hmmmmm, I know the text is onerous, but it is also useful.
Could we assign sections to be read by small groups and presented to the
class? Maybe, groups of two could make powerpoints of salient points in
shorter sections of the text, present those to the class, and so limit the
amount of reading all need to do.

Let me know what you think today in class.

But please do refrain from resorting to dishonesty. Your character is the
only thing that you have full control over. Your social position, your
family, your health-- all largely determined by others or by fate. I
appreciate the commitment to honesty and excellence shown by those who
have communicated with me regarding today's quiz.

I am rambling.
Be prepared for a quiz today made by me and for a discussion of future
options afterwards.


Thanks,
Professor XXXXXX

 

[masterMood]

bah, i could argue the the whole merit behind this class when they skip out an entire millenium of accomplishments that Islam and China contributed to the modern-day Western world.

not to mention we have to read the Bible as an "academic" text. Why not read the Qu'ran or Torah? That would be BLASPHEMY!!!

 

[RxnMan]

...nwo the professor said that this was cheating. I hope nothing comes from this, but the professor said that this was blatant cheating because he said that he didn't mind if we shared the questions but we elected to share the answers...

If you haven't taken the test yet, then you have not cheated. The prof may be angry that he has to write the test, but you have not cheated.

 

[DoctorPardi]

this is the e-mail he sent to the class:

Due to irregularities (blatant cheating) in the question-writing for
today's quiz, I have decided to write my own questions.

I am sorry that I have to do this. I do not enjoy re-reading 100+ pages
of history either.

The purpose of the course is, in part, to broaden our understanding of the
world and of our culture. We, as Americans, are often accused of being
narrow-minded and parochial. The history text can alleviate this by
broadening our scope of (vicarious) experience.

I wouldn't have minded the sharing of questions for the "quiz" if you
hadn't also elected to share the answers.

Remember, the quiz grades comprise only ten percent of the course grade.
Class participation also comprises ten percent. If you participate in
class (eight of you do participate regularly) you can get all the quiz
answers wrong and still get a 100 (if all other grades are 100).

Hmmmmm, I know the text is onerous, but it is also useful.
Could we assign sections to be read by small groups and presented to the
class? Maybe, groups of two could make powerpoints of salient points in
shorter sections of the text, present those to the class, and so limit the
amount of reading all need to do.

Let me know what you think today in class.

But please do refrain from resorting to dishonesty. Your character is the
only thing that you have full control over. Your social position, your
family, your health-- all largely determined by others or by fate. I
appreciate the commitment to honesty and excellence shown by those who
have communicated with me regarding today's quiz.

I am rambling.
Be prepared for a quiz today made by me and for a discussion of future
options afterwards.


Thanks,
Professor XXXXXX

Your professor seems really lazy. I think obviously you were in the wrong for asking to get the answers for everyone else's questions. For one you asked everyone in the class over email which is a bad idea because you couldn't know all 20 or so people in the class that well. Two if you were worried about it you should have asked one or two people you know well in person what their questions were like and maybe their answers.

Clearly you were trying to cheat. You are trying to get the answers to a quiz that you aren't supposed to have. It is a silly thing, and it isn't like you broke into his office and tried to steal the answers for the final or something. I doubt you'll get in trouble for it, because your teacher sounds like a ***** and you can probably convince him not to do anything about it.

All the time I hear about kids sharing answers for homework problems in class, or a kid from the earlier class telling the kid in the later class what some of the test questions were. It is cheating, but it happens all the time and most of the time nothing is done about it, but that certainly doesn't mean it is right, or that nothing could be done about it.

 

[DrBowtie]

It's not any different than when a prof says that HW problems will be on the quiz. You know both the question and answer there too.

 

[jbrice1639]

But i don't see how this is cheating if the whole idea was bad to begin with?

it's a bad idea if the professor leaves the answer key on his desk and leaves the room, but it's still cheating if you read all the answers.

doesn't really matter how good or bad the idea is...getting all of the answers before a test is cheating.

 

[DoctorPardi]

If you haven't taken the test yet, then you have not cheated. The prof may be angry that he has to write the test, but you have not cheated.

It's like well you tried to kill this person but you didn't so you're off the hook, np lol. I suppose there isn't "attempted cheating" like there is attempted murder, but still I think this "could" fall under academic dishonesty. Again though, this happens all the time and people get comfortable asking their buddy about what was on the quiz he just took or sharing homework answers when you're not supposed too, but it is still cheating.

I don't think this should be nearly as punishable (if at all) as something like plagiarism or stealing the answers to the final etc. In fact, I think if you did get caught doing this, universities should have a completely different term for it, so you don't have to say you were caught of "academic dishonesty" or cheating.

 

[DoctorPardi]

It's not any different than when a prof says that HW problems will be on the quiz. You know both the question and answer there too.

Yeah but the professor said they could exchange questions, but not the answers. This is like the professor saying, "Problems 1-5 will be on the quiz", then you make a copy of his teacher's edition and know all the answers without solving them yourself.

Dude Brett what happened to the MCAT blog, I am disappointed, very disappointed!

 

[DrBowtie]

Yeah but the professor said they could exchange questions, but not the answers. This is like the professor saying, "Problems 1-5 will be on the quiz", then you make a copy of his teacher's edition and know all the answers without solving them yourself.

True. It is a waste of the students time to look up the answers though while the prof is sitting around watching Desperate Housewives.

Probably wasn't the best thing to do but the prof was leaving himself open to cheating.

 

[Zuerst]

Hey class, since I'm such a nice guy, I'm going to let you guys make the test. And while we're at it, you guys can make up the lecture slides also and present them to the class.

 

[star22]

It's like well you tried to kill this person but you didn't so you're off the hook, np lol. I suppose there isn't "attempted cheating" like there is attempted murder, but still I think this "could" fall under academic dishonesty. Again though, this happens all the time and people get comfortable asking their buddy about what was on the quiz he just took or sharing homework answers when you're not supposed too, but it is still cheating.

I don't think this should be nearly as punishable (if at all) as something like plagiarism or stealing the answers to the final etc. In fact, I think if you did get caught doing this, universities should have a completely different for it, so you don't have to say you were caught of "academic dishonesty" or cheating.

I see your point here, but at the same time, if everyone would have shared all of their answers with everyone in the class (which is what I think the OP imagined would happen with a mass email), then it seems more like class collaboration than one person stealing answers or cheating.

 

[masterMood]

It's like well you tried to kill this person but you didn't so you're off the hook, np lol. I suppose there isn't "attempted cheating" like there is attempted murder, but still I think this "could" fall under academic dishonesty. Again though, this happens all the time and people get comfortable asking their buddy about what was on the quiz he just took or sharing homework answers when you're not supposed too, but it is still cheating.

I don't think this should be nearly as punishable (if at all) as something like plagiarism or stealing the answers to the final etc. In fact, I think if you did get caught doing this, universities should have a completely different term for it, so you don't have to say you were caught of "academic dishonesty" or cheating.

so when (and if) i have to talk the professor should i try to tell him its not cheating or would that probably piss him off and make my condition worse.

What this really comes down to is, is that this class is a requirement (at 200 level) and its reading intense/writing intense and its not fair to the science majors because they have to put in much mroe work than the nonscience majors, and they don't make the nonscience majors take a science class at the 200 level.

But most importantly, why I hate this class, is because this class is too EUROCENTRIC, and its telling me (and i'm not white), that our society and culture today came from the Greeks and Romans, and all of a sudden we're here today because of that.

I think this whole class is junk because they skip out on a 1000 years of non-Western history that played a much more important role than the Greeks or Romans did.

These are my reasons why I don't think this class is very useful and why I don't believe its worth my time to read into this.

If these are my main objections with the class, do you think its worth it to tell the professor that, and see if he understands why i think the class is not very useful?

Finally, could I argue that it would've been better if he gave us the quiz himself (because his quizzes are easier and more standard), rather than having much more discrepancy with 20 kids who could come up with questions of the most random things. And by sending the email to everyone in the class, i didn't just talk to 4-5 kids in the class so it would be unfair in that sense too (and more unethical) because it would've happened (because some kids were going to talk to each other and have an unfair advantage).

 

[DoctorPardi]

True. It is a waste of the students time to look up the answers though while the prof is sitting around watching Desperate Housewives.

Probably wasn't the best thing to do but the prof was leaving himself open to cheating.

Clearly this professor is a *****, and this was a terrible idea. Was it cheating? I think probably so. Would you get punished, I highly doubt it, because the intenet of the assignment was not completely clear. You could exchange questions maybe, but he didn't say you couldn't exchange answers. Plus, it is obvious he is just avoiding doing his own work if at all possible. This is the type of assignment a 7th grade teacher assigns not a college professor.

 

[star22]

Hey class, since I'm such a nice guy, I'm going to let you guys make the test. And while we're at it, you guys can make up the lecture slides also and present them to the class.

I've had classes that were predominantly "student presentations" which we were later tested on.... sounds the same to me.

 

[DoctorPardi]

so when (and if) i have to talk the professor should i try to tell him its not cheating or would that probably piss him off and make my condition worse.

What this really comes down to is, is that this class is a requirement (at 200 level) and its reading intense/writing intense and its not fair to the science majors because they have to put in much mroe work than the nonscience majors, and they don't make the nonscience majors take a science class at the 200 level.

But most importantly, why I hate this class, is because this class is too EUROCENTRIC, and its telling me (and i'm not white), that our society and culture today came from the Greeks and Romans, and all of a sudden we're here today because of that.

I think this whole class is junk because they skip out on a 1000 years of non-Western history that played a much more important role than the Greeks or Romans did.

These are my reasons why I don't think this class is very useful and why I don't believe its worth my time to read into this.

If these are my main objections with the class, do you think its worth it to tell the professor that, and see if he understands why i think the class is not very useful?

I think this is the worst approach to take. You're talking about telling the professor his class is terrible and he is skipping over history you think he should include etc. It is one thing to know your professor is an idiot and completely different to tell him. Professors have a lot of leeway in determining student's grades and especially if he is tenured.

Look at what your goal in this class is:
1) Get A
2) Don't get accused of academic dishonesty

Taking those in mind I would apologize to the professor and tell him you just didnt understand the assignment. If he responds with some dingus comment then let it go. It isn't worth you making a B, or worth you failing the class and having academic dishonesty on your record to speak your mind. You have to pick your battles and this is clearly one you can not "win" in the way I think you would like too. Just try to get out with an A and without getting in any trouble.

 

[mintendo]

Sounds like cheating to me - c'mon, you know the questions, you know the answers, what's the point of the test.

Yea yea the professor is one lazy SOB, but that's his problem.

HOWEVER, since you haven't taken the test YET, I don't think there is anything they can do about it. Don't even bother talking to him about this. That would only make things worse.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

What this really comes down to is, is that this class is a requirement (at 200 level) and its reading intense/writing intense and its not fair to the science majors because they have to put in much mroe work than the nonscience majors, and they don't make the nonscience majors take a science class at the 200 level.

You're complaining about a 200 level history class because it's "more work for science majors"? Where do you figure that sience majors have to put in more work than nonscience majors? In my opinion it was cheating because you were trying to take the easy way out and get the answers before the quiz. If the professor said all the quiz questions will come from the homework problems, then it's up to you to study the homework problems, not just get the answers so you can ace the quiz. Clearly, you were cheating here. I don't know what you should do about it because I doubt anything will come of it, but if you want my advice, I'd quit complaining that you feel you work harder than the nonscience majors. It's a silly argument that will only piss people off, including your professor.

 

[Darth Asclepius]

You were trying to get the questions and answers, so you were trying to cheat. If there was nothing wrong with this as you seem to think, why were you so upset that the other student told the professor? If there was nothing shady about it, why not copy the professor on the email? It was wrong and you got caught. I doubt you'll get in trouble, but arguing to the professor that his class is pointless isn't going to help you. It will only make things worse. You make a bunch of excuses about how much the class sucks and how useless it is. So when you decide a class isn't worthy of your efforts you get to cheat? And how is it more work for science majors? Doesn't everyone in the class have to do the same work? If you hate the class this much, drop the class. Arguing with the professor that the class is stupid or that he should have made up the questions isn't going to help you. If you talk to your professor you should be a man and own up to what you did. Tell him you didn't think that what you did was wrong when you did it, but that you realize now what you did was wrong and it won't happen again.

 

[MrDreamWeaver]

What a lazy professor. Seems like he is too lazy or bored out of his mind w/ history.

Anyway, judging by how lazy he is, I would expect that he is too lazy to go through the cheating papers.

LmAO that sux dude

 

[masterMood]

You're complaining about a 200 level history class because it's "more work for science majors"? Where do you figure that sience majors have to put in more work than nonscience majors? In my opinion it was cheating because you were trying to take the easy way out and get the answers before the quiz. If the professor said all the quiz questions will come from the homework problems, then it's up to you to study the homework problems, not just get the answers so you can ace the quiz. Clearly, you were cheating here. I don't know what you should do about it because I doubt anything will come of it, but if you want my advice, I'd quit complaining that you feel you work harder than the nonscience majors. It's a silly argument that will only piss people off, including your professor.

no, my point is that science majors are more tuned for taking science classes and for reading primarily science-dense textbooks where each sentence and each idea has to be taken care for and there isn't as much paper writing, whereas nonscience majors are used to this because its the type of stuff they do in their majors. I'm not saying one is intrinisically harder than the other, i'm saying that each major ismeant for different people and to force science majors to take a class that is usually a weakness for them (and this classs is reading-intensive, we've had to read the republic, thucydides pelopennesian war, antigone, the aeneid, and a really dense history book in the past 3 weeks just to give you an idea).

My point is really a matter of tit-for-tat --- yes i know nothing will probably happen, but it does give nonscience majors an academic class to take 1 year of an 8 credit clsas (4 credits each, very hefty), and if they're taking a class at that intensity, why shouldn't they take a class like organic to be well-rounded as well (afterall science gen-eds are much easier and are a joke compared to the liberal arts gen-eds)

 

[DoctorPardi]

You were trying to get the questions and answers, so you were trying to cheat. If there was nothing wrong with this as you seem to think, why were you so upset that the other student told the professor? If there was nothing shady about it, why not copy the professor on the email? It was wrong and you got caught. I doubt you'll get in trouble, but arguing to the professor that his class is pointless isn't going to help you. It will only make things worse. You make a bunch of excuses about how much the class sucks and how useless it is. So when you decide a class isn't worthy of your efforts you get to cheat? And how is it more work for science majors? Doesn't everyone in the class have to do the same work? If you hate the class this much, drop the class. Arguing with the professor that the class is stupid or that he should have made up the questions isn't going to help you. If you talk to your professor you should be a man and own up to what you did. Tell him you didn't think that what you did was wrong when you did it, but that you realize now what you did was wrong and it won't happen again.

Let this guy's post and the post above it be a small representation of what your professor might say when you suggest his class is a joke and you have to work too hard etc. If he brings it up to you apologize and don't make excuses. You cheated, basically you were trying to get the answers to the quiz you weren't supposed to have.

Don't say you were just "this or just "that". If he asks say, "I'm sorry it was a stupid thing to do, and I will definitely not do it again."

You can try if you want to, too make a point and tell him how he is an idiot, but I bet you'll fail his class and he'll tell the dean you cheated lol. The best outcome could be the dean lets it go, and you probably just have a W on your transcript and you have to retake it or something. But how does that help you?

 

[jbrice1639]

If these are my main objections with the class, do you think its worth it to tell the professor that, and see if he understands why i think the class is not very useful?

you've gotta be kidding, right? you honestly want to know if it's a good idea to tell a professor his class is not useful?

well, they say the only way a kid learns a stove is hot is by touching it...so i say go for it. 🙄

 

[DoctorPardi]

you've gotta be kidding, right? you honestly want to know if it's a good idea to tell a professor his class is not useful?

well, they say the only way a kid learns a stove is hot is by touching it...so i say go for it. 🙄

Classic.

 

[JHUNBC]

This may be a mute (or is it moot? I can never remember...) point, but how can someone who actively participates in class but who gets 0%'s on all the quizzes still get an A+ in the class? If they're both weighted 10%, zeros on quizzes at my school would leave me with a maximum of 90%. Am I missing something?

Maybe this tidbit is a testament to his inability to properly instruct a course.

 

[masterMood]

good advice folks, i will follow it, rather than voicing my opinions as that will do me a lot more good

 

[MedStudentWanna]

no, my point is that science majors are more tuned for taking science classes and for reading primarily science-dense textbooks where each sentence and each idea has to be taken care for and there isn't as much paper writing, whereas nonscience majors are used to this because its the type of stuff they do in their majors. I'm not saying one is intrinisically harder than the other, i'm saying that each major ismeant for different people and to force science majors to take a class that is usually a weakness for them (and this classs is reading-intensive, we've had to read the republic, thucydides pelopennesian war, antigone, the aeneid, and a really dense history book in the past 3 weeks just to give you an idea).

My point is really a matter of tit-for-tat --- yes i know nothing will probably happen, but it does give nonscience majors an academic class to take 1 year of an 8 credit clsas (4 credits each, very hefty), and if they're taking a class at that intensity, why shouldn't they take a class like organic to be well-rounded as well (afterall science gen-eds are much easier and are a joke compared to the liberal arts gen-eds)

The point of college isn't to let you study just what you want. It's to make sure you're a well-rounded individual who can then decide what he wants to do with the rest of his life. Gen ed courses are required for a reason. The Philosophy majors have to take some science courses too, but comparing this 200-level history class to orgo chem that even science majors can't always pass is just ridiculous! Believe me, there are plenty of Theater Arts majors, Dance majors, Music majors, Advertising majors, PR majors, Psychology majors, Sociology majors, English majors, and Poli Sci majors who absolutely HATE freshman chemistry, but they suck it up and take it. I'm sure there are many fine arts majors who would love to see you get on the dancefloor and strut your stuff instead of them taking chemistry or biology or physics (with labs). Suck it up and do it. If you can't read and write in a sophomore level history class, how in the world are you going to pass the verbal section of the MCAT?

 

[Dr. Giggles]

no, my point is that science majors are more tuned for taking science classes and for reading primarily science-dense textbooks where each sentence and each idea has to be taken care for and there isn't as much paper writing, whereas nonscience majors are used to this because its the type of stuff they do in their majors. I'm not saying one is intrinisically harder than the other, i'm saying that each major ismeant for different people and to force science majors to take a class that is usually a weakness for them (and this classs is reading-intensive, we've had to read the republic, thucydides pelopennesian war, antigone, the aeneid, and a really dense history book in the past 3 weeks just to give you an idea).

My point is really a matter of tit-for-tat --- yes i know nothing will probably happen, but it does give nonscience majors an academic class to take 1 year of an 8 credit clsas (4 credits each, very hefty), and if they're taking a class at that intensity, why shouldn't they take a class like organic to be well-rounded as well (afterall science gen-eds are much easier and are a joke compared to the liberal arts gen-eds)

So if an English major decides to take an organic class with you and gets a better grade than you through cheating, would you be just fine with that? After all, he probably hasn't had as many science classes as you have and is therefore at a distinct disadvantage.

👎 on this thread. Your righteous anger is totally misplaced if you think that your grievances with the University's academic requirements gives you carte blanche to unscrupulously boost your grades. EVERY student can come up with some disadvantage they have in a class they don't enjoy. Their Algebra 2 teacher in high school let the class watch movies every day, they have to balance school with a full-time job, their prereqs didn't cover all the important material, or whatever. That doesn't mean they should be held to a different standard than their classmates.

 

[masterMood]

The point of college isn't to let you study just what you want. It's to make sure you're a well-rounded individual who can then decide what he wants to do with the rest of his life. Gen ed courses are required for a reason. The Philosophy majors have to take some science courses too, but comparing this 200-level history class to orgo chem that even science majors can't always pass is just ridiculous! Believe me, there are plenty of Theater Arts majors, Dance majors, Music majors, Advertising majors, PR majors, Psychology majors, Sociology majors, English majors, and Poli Sci majors who absolutely HATE freshman chemistry, but they suck it up and take it. I'm sure there are many fine arts majors who would love to see you get on the dancefloor and strut your stuff instead of them taking chemistry or biology or physics (with labs). Suck it up and do it. If you can't read and write in a sophomore level history class, how in the world are you going to pass the verbal section of the MCAT?

this is a different topic but at my college, our mandatory gen-ed science classes are usually rehashed, regurgitated versions of the true science classes that science majors have to take (Basic Foundation to Chemistry 101 verus General Chemistry I)

if the school wants people to be well-rounded, i don't disagree one bit, but when they put an emphasis on liberal arts over sciences, how does that make us well-rounded? I don't see how being well-rounded really matters as much when you can't apply it to your job directly (your job matters more than your instrinsic persoal learning IMO, and yes the things you learn can help you live a more well-rounded life but in the beginning and in the end you need to make money and by that you need a job). We can see this when we look at statistics and we see that Americans fall behind in science/math compared to the rest of the world.

In order for society to sustain itself and improve itself, it must have the basic foundations for it by providing for food, shelter, etc., and if we can't provide that then we can't even have our liberal arts in the first place. Of course, if we focus too much on science and math, then it can be argued that a society becomes boring and dry.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

this is a different topic but at my college, our mandatory gen-ed science classes are usually rehashed, regurgitated versions of the true science classes that science majors have to take (Basic Foundation to Chemistry 101 verus General Chemistry I)

if the school wants people to be well-rounded, i don't disagree one bit, but when they put an emphasis on liberal arts over sciences, how does that make us well-rounded? I don't see how being well-rounded really matters as much when you can't apply it to your job directly (your job matters more than your instrinsic persoal learning IMO, and yes the things you learn can help you live a more well-rounded life but in the beginning and in the end you need to make money and by that you need a job). We can see this when we look at statistics and we see that Americans fall behind in science/math compared to the rest of the world.

In order for society to sustain itself and improve itself, it must have the basic foundations for it by providing for food, shelter, etc., and if we can't provide that then we can't even have our liberal arts in the first place. Of course, if we focus too much on science and math, then it can be argued that a society becomes boring and dry.

Umm what??? First off, Americans don't fall behind in science and math compared to the rest of the world. Have you even seen stats for the rest of the world? Are those pesky African nations ahead of us again? Are we trailing behind Mexico? That's a ridiculous assumption.

Are we the leading country? No. But it isn't solely science and math that's holding us back. It's a wide range of topics, including our outrageous illiteracy rate. If we want to lead the world in ANY subject, I think we need to begin by making sure that our citizens can read and write and classes like history will make sure that those who have the basics can exercise their ability. Perhaps we should look to Sweden, which boasts a literacy rate of 100%.

History is important. Some Americans don't even know what the true meaning of Memorial Day is or who we gained our independence from on July 4, 1776. They don't know who won the Civil War. I really don't have much sympathy for you complaining about this class since it will do you good in the long run and probably improve your verbal score on the MCAT.

How will the rest of the world know about our scientific breakthroughs if our scientists can't write about them?

 

[masterMood]

So if an English major decides to take an organic class with you and gets a better grade than you through cheating, would you be just fine with that? After all, he probably hasn't had as many science classes as you have and is therefore at a distinct disadvantage.

👎 on this thread. Your righteous anger is totally misplaced if you think that your grievances with the University's academic requirements gives you carte blanche to unscrupulously boost your grades. EVERY student can come up with some disadvantage they have in a class they don't enjoy. Their Algebra 2 teacher in high school let the class watch movies every day, they have to balance school with a full-time job, their prereqs didn't cover all the important material, or whatever. That doesn't mean they should be held to a different standard than their classmates.

i don't really care for the moral accusations you throw at me, because the "severity" of the whole thing really can be questioned. You're looking at this as it is all black and white.

This whole topic can be related to the ethics of getting old tests and whatnot, and this issue has been argued to death in the past. Some say that its cheating, while others say that its not. The main thing i can conclude from my problem, was that I made a bad move by emailing the whole class. Yes cheating goes on, and if you're telling me you haven't ever cheated then i'll poop golden eggs for ya. Second of all, you make it sound like that the moral code in this class is so sound. I can tell you that this professor is lazy and has skipped already 3 days of classes, one of them being because he needed to go on a field trip for his kid's trip. If we're paying dollars to go to class, everyday he needs to know his priorities as well [not that i'm arguing he shouldn't cancel class or anything].

Life's not always that simple. What if everyone else in your class was helping each other out, and you were excluded and you couldn't prove a thing? i.e. extreme case say everyone is taking adderall as a study drug for a test, and you're not - perhaps you'll have a huge disadvantage.

My reason for sending the email out to the class, was based on that. Instead of having 4-5 kids having the answers for themselves (and the quiz idea can be questioned itself), why not just eliminate that by having the whole class. Yes, now ir ealize that it was a stupid mistake, and i won't be doing that again, because there are a bunch of tools who go tattle-tale.

peace.

 

[masterMood]

Umm what??? First off, Americans don't fall behind in science and math compared to the rest of the world. Have you even seen stats for the rest of the world? Are those pesky African nations ahead of us again? Are we trailing behind Mexico? That's a ridiculous assumption.

Are we the leading country? No. But it isn't solely science and math that's holding us back. It's a wide range of topics, including our outrageous illiteracy rate. If we want to lead the world in ANY subject, I think we need to begin by making sure that our citizens can read and write and classes like history will make sure that those who have the basics can exercise their ability. Perhaps we should look to Sweden, which boasts a literacy rate of 100%.

History is important. Some Americans don't even know what the true meaning of Memorial Day is or who we gained our independence from on July 4, 1976. They don't know who won the Civil War. I really don't have much sympathy for you complaining about this class since it will do you good in the long run and probably improve your verbal score on the MCAT.

How will the rest of the world know about our scientific breakthroughs if our scientists can't write about them?

Eurocentrism have you heard of it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocentrism

i personally don't feel that the history that we learn in class is very fair and appropriate especially considering there's about a 1000 years of history that we miss out on and i'm sure others agree on that. I agree with you that the reading will improve the verbal reasoning, but there's so much that we can possibly read that it's just arrogant to read the same damn stuff since grade school.

 

[R.P. McMurphy]

You really need to find that d-bag who ratted you out. What a complete baby. I would find that kid and kick his ass.

 

[R.P. McMurphy]

Eurocentrism have you heard of it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocentrism

i personally don't feel that the history that we learn in class is very fair and appropriate especially considering there's about a 1000 years of history that we miss out on and i'm sure others agree on that. I agree with you that the reading will improve the verbal reasoning, but there's so much that we can possibly read that it's just arrogant to read the same damn stuff since grade school.

do you realize that you can edit Wikipedia whenever you feel like it, and you don't even have to be a member? I could go to that Eurocentrism page right now and put whatever I want on it. I could say that Eurocentrism is a baseball team from china if I wanted to......

its the most unreliable site in the entire world

 

[Bluntman]

You really need to find that d-bag who ratted you out. What a complete baby. I would find that kid and kick his ass.

Serious! What a little bitch.

 

[Rafa]

do you realize that you can edit Wikipedia whenever you feel like it, and you don't even have to be a member? I could go to that Eurocentrism page right now and put whatever I want on it. I could say that Eurocentrism is a baseball team from china if I wanted to......

You could do that, but you'd be a douchebag. And someone would change it back almost immediately.

 

[akinf]

Your school is really weird. Why would a professor do something like that? He must have realized that something like this would have happened. 👎 for the professor. *shakes head*

 

[masterMood]

do you realize that you can edit Wikipedia whenever you feel like it, and you don't even have to be a member? I could go to that Eurocentrism page right now and put whatever I want on it. I could say that Eurocentrism is a baseball team from china if I wanted to......

its the most unreliable site in the entire world

true point, but that's why its up to the reader to decide what is and isn't fact. When i read that article, it was pretty hard to deny the things that were stated, but i can give you another source (more lengthy and no one would probably read it). So I guess i could say that i agree on many of the viewpoints the wiki article said (unless the article got changed seriously in the last hour lol)

 

[R.P. McMurphy]

You could do that, but you'd be a douchebag. And someone would change it back almost immediately.

no, i'd be a douchbag by citing something from that piece of crap site. And no, chances are nobody is checking the definition of Eurocentrism on wikipedia because most people know that the site is created by common idiots who don't know much about what they are talking about

wikipedea sucks

 

[Dr. Giggles]

i don't really care for the moral accusations you throw at me, because the "severity" of the whole thing really can be questioned. You're looking at this as it is all black and white.

This whole topic can be related to the ethics of getting old tests and whatnot, and this issue has been argued to death in the past. Some say that its cheating, while others say that its not. The main thing i can conclude from my problem, was that I made a bad move by emailing the whole class. Yes cheating goes on, and if you're telling me you haven't ever cheated then i'll poop golden eggs for ya. Second of all, you make it sound like that the moral code in this class is so sound. I can tell you that this professor is lazy and has skipped already 3 days of classes, one of them being because he needed to go on a field trip for his kid's trip. If we're paying dollars to go to class, everyday he needs to know his priorities as well [not that i'm arguing he shouldn't cancel class or anything].

Life's not always that simple. What if everyone else in your class was helping each other out, and you were excluded and you couldn't prove a thing? i.e. extreme case say everyone is taking adderall as a study drug for a test, and you're not - perhaps you'll have a huge disadvantage.

My reason for sending the email out to the class, was based on that. Instead of having 4-5 kids having the answers for themselves (and the quiz idea can be questioned itself), why not just eliminate that by having the whole class. Yes, now ir ealize that it was a stupid mistake, and i won't be doing that again, because there are a bunch of tools who go tattle-tale.

peace.

Well, everyone may not agree with me, but I think it is black-and-white. Getting answers for questions that will appear on the exam from someone else is unquestionably wrong. I guess whether or not it constitutes cheating is a technicality. Using old exams isn't as black-and-white, because unless the professor is ridiculously lazy (maybe like this one), the same questions won't show up on your exam. I still think it's wrong to use old exams without talking to the professor first, but there's more room for disagreement on that matter IMO.

I think the Adderall example is unfair too, and I can see why you'd be frustrated if you suspect academic dishonesty is rampant in your class. The unfortunate thing about unethical behavior is that the effects tend to be much more widespread than intended. Still I think maintaining your integrity is paramount (profound and original, I know). But if you do engage in the same type of thing, at least be honest about why you're doing so (to compete with your classmates), rather than try to rationalize it because you think the course is bunk and you shouldn't have to take it anyway.

It does sound like you have a lousy professor who shirks his teaching responsibilities, and hopefully he'll be reprimanded when you get to fill out the course evaluations. While it makes him seem hypocritical to criticize you, I don't think that does anything to justify your actions.

Anyway, it sounds like you get the idea, and I apologize if my last post seemed a bit pugnacious.

 

[HelenaP]

What a lazy professor. Seems like he is too lazy or bored out of his mind w/ history.

Anyway, judging by how lazy he is, I would expect that he is too lazy to go through the cheating papers.

LmAO that sux dude

That's exactly what I was thinking. Judging by his "you guys go ahead and do the teaching and then write the quizzes" style, there is almost no chance of him going through the effort of taking institutional action. I think you would have to really, seriously piss him off before he would do that.

 

[Monette]

no, i'd be a douchbag by citing something from that piece of crap site. And no, chances are nobody is checking the definition of Eurocentrism on wikipedia because most people know that the site is created by common idiots who don't know much about what they are talking about

wikipedea sucks

Not according to Nature:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10478207/?GT1=7516

Monette

 

[Rafa]

no, i'd be a douchbag by citing something from that piece of crap site. And no, chances are nobody is checking the definition of Eurocentrism on wikipedia because most people know that the site is created by common idiots who don't know much about what they are talking about

It sounds like you've either done some trolling (and had your troll edits reverted) on the site, or you don't agree with the subject matter. Either way, have fun. The site's incredibly useful for getting an overview of a large and bulbous topic, or for finding links to outside sources on particular issues - or for furthering one's knowledge on scientific concepts that people don't disagree with for political reasons (like the taxonomic background of American wolves). But if you get your kicks from going to, say, the thermonuclear bomb page and changing all the pictures of molecules to candy bars, then, well, have a good time. It's one of those things most people eventually grow out of. 😎

 

[masterMood]

a'ight so here'z the game plan step by step:

1) enter class 2) sit awkwardly next to friends/classmates and be like ummm hi 3) either make eye-contact with professor or look down at the desk as though i killed Barney 4) listen to professor give us a spiel on ethics and stuff 5) end of class - be like "At the time, i realized that what I did was wrong when I did it, but that I realize now what you did was wrong and it won't happen again."

DO YOU GUYS think it would be better if i said this outloud in front of class and apologize in front of everyone?

I seriously doubt anyone thinks that what happened was a big-deal, and I think it would really serve the purpose of 3 things 1) impressing the professor that i was "brave" enough to say it in front of class 2) let everyone realize how silly this is 3) make the tools who told on me feel even like bigger tools

 

[R.P. McMurphy]

It sounds like you've either done some trolling (and had your troll edits reverted) on the site, or you don't agree with the subject matter. Either way, have fun. The site's incredibly useful for getting an overview of a large and bulbous topic, or for finding links to outside sources on particular issues - or for furthering one's knowledge on scientific concepts that people don't disagree with for political reasons (like the taxonomic background of American wolves). But if you get your kicks from going to, say, the thermonuclear bomb page and changing all the pictures of molecules to candy bars, then, well, have a good time. It's one of those things most people eventually grow out of. 😎

I've only been on Wikipedia 2 or 3 times, because I found information that was COMPLETELY WRONG, so I don't go there for info anymore.

It's not a credible source at all, and is often very biased on certain topics.

This is what happens when people can edit information at will. Does that make sense?

 

[masterMood]

Well, everyone may not agree with me, but I think it is black-and-white. Getting answers for questions that will appear on the exam from someone else is unquestionably wrong. I guess whether or not it constitutes cheating is a technicality. Using old exams isn't as black-and-white, because unless the professor is ridiculously lazy (maybe like this one), the same questions won't show up on your exam. I still think it's wrong to use old exams without talking to the professor first, but there's more room for disagreement on that matter IMO.

I think the Adderall example is unfair too, and I can see why you'd be frustrated if you suspect academic dishonesty is rampant in your class. The unfortunate thing about unethical behavior is that the effects tend to be much more widespread than intended. Still I think maintaining your integrity is paramount (profound and original, I know). But if you do engage in the same type of thing, at least be honest about why you're doing so (to compete with your classmates), rather than try to rationalize it because you think the course is bunk and you shouldn't have to take it anyway.

It does sound like you have a lousy professor who shirks his teaching responsibilities, and hopefully he'll be reprimanded when you get to fill out the course evaluations. While it makes him seem hypocritical to criticize you, I don't think that does anything to justify your actions.

Anyway, it sounds like you get the idea, and I apologize if my last post seemed a bit pugnacious.

heh heh we cool we cool 🙂

i love this website