Is this considered cheating?

[EagerToBeMD]

I have a professor who uses a test bank for test questions. My friend and I found the test bank from the previous edition of the book online. We're using the 10th edition in class and this test bank is from the 9th edition. We want to use it as a study aid, but I would bet some, if not most, of the questions are the same. What's the verdict? Is it cheating?

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[Sondra]

If it is readily available online then it is not cheating in my opinion

 

[somemaybedoc]

I have a professor who uses a test bank for test questions. My friend and I found the test bank from the previous edition of the book online. We're using the 10th edition in class and this test bank is from the 9th edition. We want to use it as a study aid, but I would bet some, if not most, of the questions are the same. What's the verdict? Is it cheating?

In my opinion, if it is publicly available online it is not. However, I must say your professor is lazy, mine took the time to write their own questions.

 

[Mr. Itchy]

Its cheating if you get caught.

 

[CTtarheel]

As long as you don't bring the answers into class, its not cheating. You're using commercially available material, and you're using it to study, not to look up answers while you're taking the test. Perfectly OK in my book.

 

[alwaysaangel]

That happened at my high school - and when the teacher figured out why pretty much the ENTIRE class was doing so well it WAS considered cheating. Most of them ended up failing the past three or so quizzes.

Having access to a test and knowing answers ahead of time is cheating. Its hard to spin it any other way.

If you want to do it you could ask the prof - "hey found a different edition of the test bank online - can we use it as a study guide? He will either say yes or will stop being lazy and will start writing his own questions."

 

[kevster2001]

I dont think so, i'd just consider it looking up additional study material.

 

[juice55]

are you kidding me? no, it's not cheating. You're using it as a study aid. Professors usually give out previous years' tests to use as study aids. It is just that. a study AID. It's not like you're going to bring it with you to the exam and copy answers out of it.

 

[wrong_answer]

My general feeling is, if you have to ask if it's cheating... it probably is.

 

[63768]

ask if it's ok. the only way to really know unless you want to find out afterward. and if it is and you're caught, trust me, it's not fun at all.

 

[Avalanche21]

My general feeling is, if you have to ask if it's cheating... it probably is.

I agree. I guess it would depend where online you found it. Wouldn't a test bank be reserved for teachers only?

 

[somemaybedoc]

ask if it's ok. the only way to really know unless you want to find out afterward. and if it is and you're caught, trust me, it's not fun at all.

If you ask be sure to do it in an email and bcc it to an administrator. You'll want the paper trail of honesty in case he turns into a vindictive prick because you ruined his lazy ways.

 

[crazy_cavalier]

My general feeling is, if you have to ask if it's cheating... it probably is.

Absolutely true.

To the OP: Consider this for a moment. Is this a resource that the professor would have made readily available to your class? If your class had a website, and the professor posted materials on that website, do you think he/she would post this question bank on there? Probably not. When viewing it this way, you should easily see why it could be considered "cheating".

I must admit that your prof is lazy as hell and that his ineptitude in formulating test questions is mostly to blame.

 

[fpr85]

You're not absolutely sure that it's going to appear on the test, so how is it considered cheating? You have no prior knowledge.

 

[EagerToBeMD]

I agree. I guess it would depend where online you found it. Wouldn't a test bank be reserved for teachers only?

My friend found it on Ebay. It was labeled "student edition," but I don't think it actually is a student edition because when she got it, we noticed the inside flap has a message for professors. Honestly, I don't know if it's cheating or not, but I can't really go to the professor at this point because we already have the book. I thought about telling her we should just send it back to avoid temptation, but on the other hand, it's so tempting to read these questions to know what's expected of us. There are thousands of questions. It isn't like we can memorize them, but they'll help tremendously with what types of problems we have to know, etc.

 

[Cmercury1]

You're not absolutely sure that it's going to appear on the test, so how is it considered cheating? You have no prior knowledge.

I tend to agree with this. In my opinion, technically, it's not cheating, but that doesn't mean anything about the ramifications afterward. It is possible for you to get in trouble.

 

[63768]

ask anyway. better safe than sorry. if it is considered cheating, you can make the choice to cheat or not. if it's not, good going and have at it.

 

[psipsina]

Definitely cheating and not worth risking a black mark like that on your record. If its something you aren't supposed to have access to, like a teachers edition, its cheating. Especially since you know thats where your proff is getting their test questions from.

 

[EagerToBeMD]

Definitely cheating and not worth risking a black mark like that on your record. If its something you aren't supposed to have access to, like a teachers edition, its cheating. Especially since you know thats where your proff is getting their test questions from.

It doesn't say it's the teacher's edition. My problem is it doesn't say student's edition either, even though that's how it was marketed to us. I guess it's not worth all this trouble. I just got my hopes up thinking that I'd have another study aid for a class that's been kicking my ass, but I really don't want to risk having a cheating charge slapped on my record.

 

[Avalanche21]

My friend found it on Ebay. It was labeled "student edition," but I don't think it actually is a student edition because when she got it, we noticed the inside flap has a message for professors. Honestly, I don't know if it's cheating or not, but I can't really go to the professor at this point because we already have the book. I thought about telling her we should just send it back to avoid temptation, but on the other hand, it's so tempting to read these questions to know what's expected of us. There are thousands of questions. It isn't like we can memorize them, but they'll help tremendously with what types of problems we have to know, etc.

It's cheating. I'd get rid of it.

 

[maestro1625]

not cheating...

 

[alwaysaangel]

Theres no reason you can't go to the professor. If it has thousands of questions then it may be ok. Go ask her "hey I found this on ebay and thought it would be a good study aid but then I realized it may be exactly what you use on the test. Is it ok if I use it to study?" If she says yes then you're in the clear, if she says no then give her the book as a sign of good faith.

 

[DenmarkDoctor]

Theres no reason you can't go to the professor. If it has thousands of questions then it may be ok. Go ask her "hey I found this on ebay and thought it would be a good study aid but then I realized it may be exactly what you use on the test. Is it ok if I use it to study?" If she says yes then you're in the clear, if she says no then give her the book as a sign of good faith.

In all seriouslness I hope that your kidding for social reasons!

TO the OP: It's only cheating if you get caught! do not and i repeat DO NOT ASK YOUR PROFESSOR OR EVEN MENTION IT!

 

[whykiki]

In all seriouslness I hope that your kidding for social reasons!

TO the OP: It's only cheating if you get caught! do not and i repeat DO NOT ASK YOUR PROFESSOR OR EVEN MENTION IT!

Wow, tell that to the admissions committee. Don't risk it OP. Cheating can be pretty loosely defined as having ANY sort of advantage over the rest of the class (it's in the disciplinary argreement section of most med school apps).

Like someone said before, if you have to ask people, it probably means it is cheating.

 

[somemaybedoc]

Wow, tell that to the admissions committee. Don't risk it OP. Cheating can be pretty loosely defined as having ANY sort of advantage over the rest of the class (it's in the disciplinary argreement section of most med school apps).

Like someone said before, if you have to ask people, it probably means it is cheating.

That's a horrid definition. It implies that being smarter would be cheating. I thought they say cheating is an UNFAIR advantage. If some knowledge is widely available to the public and requires no fraudulent or nefarious behavior to obtain I would say it is fair game, but it's not up to me so the OP may as well err on the side of caution.

 

[DenmarkDoctor]

Wow, tell that to the admissions committee. Don't risk it OP. Cheating can be pretty loosely defined as having ANY sort of advantage over the rest of the class (it's in the disciplinary argreement section of most med school apps).

Like someone said before, if you have to ask people, it probably means it is cheating.

Point being, if you dont TELL no one will know. No one knows = No possible way to get the consequences. The only thing youll get is a better grade. Remember op that im pretty sure some other students (gangly pre-meds) have it to which will give them an advantage (making them cheaters by definition) so by you also using it you are turning those cheaters back into equal students. Think about it.😀

 

[Cmercury1]

Don't tell the professor. What if you don't use the book and still get a really good grade? What will the prof think then when he/she knows you had the book?

 

[starflower]

Not cheating. A book you own and look at in your room is a smart study tool. It is like problems at the end of the chapter, right? Professors often recycle some of those. It would be cheating if you looked at the book during the test or stole the test from the professor's office.

 

[OregonTrail]

If you don't know, ask the teacher! He/She will be able to clarify it for you.

 

[8744]

In all seriouslness I hope that your kidding for social reasons!

TO the OP: It's only cheating if you get caught! do not and i repeat DO NOT ASK YOUR PROFESSOR OR EVEN MENTION IT!

Maybe I'm missing something here but how is this different from using old test questions that professors sometimes post in the library?

It's on line. It's legally available to anybody as there is no law prohibiting students from buying the instructor version of textbooks.

For God's sake, how would he ever find out you all have his question bank?

 

[8744]

Theres no reason you can't go to the professor. If it has thousands of questions then it may be ok. Go ask her "hey I found this on ebay and thought it would be a good study aid but then I realized it may be exactly what you use on the test. Is it ok if I use it to study?" If she says yes then you're in the clear, if she says no then give her the book as a sign of good faith.

Are you crazy? If you think it's cheating then just throw the book away and forget about it. This is a case where your nobility of character is going to bite you in the ass as you will now carry the stigma of a cheater who felt guilty and had to come clean.

The administration of your school is not your friend. They will screw you for any number of reasons including to make a point. I am the most optimistic, happy-go-lucky guy in the world (now that I escaped Family Medicine, I mean) but I would not trust my career to the good wishes of a professor you hardly know and who may be angry that you have exposed his laziness.

Man. I only completely trust one person in the world and that's my wife who, whatever else you can say about her loyalty, has a huge interest in my career being successful. Your professor does not, repeat does not, have this interest and if he is a PhD may even resent medical students.

 

[8744]

If you ask be sure to do it in an email and bcc it to an administrator. You'll want the paper trail of honesty in case he turns into a vindictive prick because you ruined his lazy ways.

No no no no. I speak now from personal experience (but not on this kind of thing). Do not. Do not. Do not. Don't. Do not. Create a paper trail identifying yourself as a cheater. I don't think having that book is cheating but just by asking, you are admitting that it may be and like someone said, if you have to ask, it is cheating.

You are not creating a paper-trail of honesty but a nice, well-documented record of your guile, guilt, and subsequent remorse.

I am now going to bring to bear the weight of my 43 years, military, business, and medical experience, something I almost never do on SDN:

You cannot trust a bureacracy. Never. Ever. If you get caught doing something wrong or are falsely accused you have to work with it but the best thing is to stay out of its vindictive talons. This applies to every organization from the Knights of the KKK to Doctors Without Borders.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

No no no no. I speak now from personal experience (but not on this kind of thing). Do not. Do not. Do not. Don't. Do not. Create a paper trail identifying yourself as a cheater. I don't think having that book is cheating but just by asking, you are admitting that it may be and like someone said, if you have to ask, it is cheating.

You are not creating a paper-trail of honesty but a nice, well-documented record of your guile, guilt, and subsequent remorse.

I am now going to bring to bear the weight of my 43 years, military, business, and medical experience, something I almost never do on SDN:

You cannot trust a bureacracy. Never. Ever. If you get caught doing something wrong or are falsely accused you have to work with it but the best thing is to stay out of its vindictive talons. This applies to every organization from the Knights of the KKK to Doctors Without Borders.

WHY WOULD YOU ASK THEM!!!??? ITS NOT CHEATING. if the teacher is lazy enough to take questions from something publicly available, thats the teacher's fault. cheating is if you look at someone's answers or steal the test, or take an action that is clearly 100% dishonest. if you happen to purchase a book to prepare for the test, and it happens to help a lot, then thats your advantage. It would be unethical and cheating if the teacher right out said do not purchase this because it would give you an unfair advantage. if he never said this, you're in the dark. you dont know anything. for all you know, maybe it wont help at all! wow, i cant believe some people consider this cheating.

its akin to saying taking princeton review for mcat is cheating bc it prepares you better than any other prep course (did you know that princeton reviewed was sued by AAMC bc they claimed the questions were so similar to past tests which werent released officially.... which they were bc princeton review hires people to take the test just to memorize parts of it so that they can provide details for more preparation materials)... thus by taking princeton review you are getting an unfair advantage for the test.. would you call AAMC and ask them permission????

 

[jstuds_66]

I have a professor who uses a test bank for test questions. My friend and I found the test bank from the previous edition of the book online. We're using the 10th edition in class and this test bank is from the 9th edition. We want to use it as a study aid, but I would bet some, if not most, of the questions are the same. What's the verdict? Is it cheating?

Why don't you talk to your teacher? If he does consider it cheating, he'll let you know, and he will respect you for being honest and showing it to him. If he isn't aware of it being posted online, and he considers it cheating, you will be in big trouble if you get caught. My opinion: honesty is the best policy. Wouldn't you rather tell your teacher and have a clear conscience?

 

[jstuds_66]

In all seriouslness I hope that your kidding for social reasons!

TO the OP: It's only cheating if you get caught! do not and i repeat DO NOT ASK YOUR PROFESSOR OR EVEN MENTION IT!

I hope you don't go to medical school because I would not want to work with you. Cheating is cheating whether you get caught or not.

 

[TPROrgoTutor]

Not cheating.

 

[Writer1985]

In all seriouslness I hope that your kidding for social reasons!

TO the OP: It's only cheating if you get caught! do not and i repeat DO NOT ASK YOUR PROFESSOR OR EVEN MENTION IT!

Wow, that's not just burying one's integrity, that's hacking it to little bits.

OP: I would definitely check with the professor via email. I'm inclined to think that it's not cheating, because it's a little like buying old MCAT exams -- hundreds of questions, you couldn't possibly memorize them, but useful in terms of checking up on what you need to know. It's not even the current edition of the text, and there can sometimes be significant turnover. On the other hand, if your prof specifically said something like you aren't allowed to talk to previous students/use their exams as a study guide, I'd probably not use it.

Either way, just be upfront about it with the prof.

 

[estairella]

For those of you who don't know... "teacher's" or "professor's" editions are only available by faculty request, and they require proof that you are actually a professor with a Ph.D yadda yadda yadda before they'll let you buy it.

In other words, it is NOT a readily available textbook. However, imho this is not a clearcut case of "yes cheating"

Imagine if the professor HADN'T mentioned that he/she uses that textbook test bank for questions (my professors who mentioned that they use test banks always try to say its in some inaccessible faculty computer, as opposed to say, in the back of some textbook); in such a case, OP would not have known those were THE questions and use of the book would have been legitimate (he did buy under the pretext that it was the Student Edition), now giving the OP a "fair" advantage.

Here's the problem - his fair advantage would have been equal to his unfair advantage. Therefore, he would only be cheating insofar as prior knowledge makes him realize his advantage is unfair.

I personally believe that intent is more important than action - if he intends to use the test questions to STUDY, then it's not cheating. If he intends to memorize the answers, then it is cheating. Yes, if he studies, he will have an advantage... but this, imo, is no different from rich kids with tutors having an advantage over the guy who does full-time school while working 30 hours a week.

 

[DenmarkDoctor]

I hope you don't go to medical school because I would not want to work with you. Cheating is cheating whether you get caught or not.

Yeah I am only on this PRE_ALLOPATHIC forum because I plan on going into becoming an astronaut. BTW I will probably end up being your boss!

 

[alwaysaangel]

I hope you don't go to medical school because I would not want to work with you. Cheating is cheating whether you get caught or not.

Don't feed the trolls.

 

[somemaybedoc]

No no no no. I speak now from personal experience (but not on this kind of thing). Do not. Do not. Do not. Don't. Do not. Create a paper trail identifying yourself as a cheater. I don't think having that book is cheating but just by asking, you are admitting that it may be and like someone said, if you have to ask, it is cheating.

You are not creating a paper-trail of honesty but a nice, well-documented record of your guile, guilt, and subsequent remorse.

I am now going to bring to bear the weight of my 43 years, military, business, and medical experience, something I almost never do on SDN:

You cannot trust a bureacracy. Never. Ever. If you get caught doing something wrong or are falsely accused you have to work with it but the best thing is to stay out of its vindictive talons. This applies to every organization from the Knights of the KKK to Doctors Without Borders.

I said IF you ask, I'm not advocating asking. I figure the school almost always sides with the oral testimony of the professor so a paper trail is better insurance than nothing if you make the professor aware of the situation.

Personally I wouldn't ask, there is no point, at best he will say don't use it and at worst he will screw you. He will be out to protect his lazy test creation system.

 

[DenmarkDoctor]

I said IF you ask, I'm not advocating asking. I figure the school almost always sides with the oral testimony of the professor so a paper trail is better insurance than nothing if you make the professor aware of the situation.

Personally I wouldn't ask, there is no point, at best he will say don't use it and at worst he will screw you. He will be out to protect his lazy test creation system.

Exactly. Who even thought up that idea to "ask the professor" I mean cmon. Op I am sure your way smarter, and wouldnt think of doing that.

 

[Cmercury1]

Personally I wouldn't ask, there is no point, at best he will say don't use it and at worst he will screw you. He will be out to protect his lazy test creation system.

Yes! I said it once but I'll say it again. What if you don't use the book and you do really well on the test? What will your prof think then?

 

[Izabelle]

I don't think it's cheating. You're still learning the material, right? It just so happens that your professor gets his questions from a source that you have available to you as well. He could do the smarter thing and get his questions from a variety of sources.

I don't think it's cheating at all.

 

[spicedmanna]

I have a professor who uses a test bank for test questions. My friend and I found the test bank from the previous edition of the book online. We're using the 10th edition in class and this test bank is from the 9th edition. We want to use it as a study aid, but I would bet some, if not most, of the questions are the same. What's the verdict? Is it cheating?

It's resourcefulness, in my opinion, but it really depends on how you feel about it, since it's hard to judge from where I am standing. If you think it's out of integrity for you to use the test bank, then it is, for the sake of how it will impact you.

If you have to ask, then there is something about it, or in the way that you are approaching it, that doesn't seem quite "right" to you. That's the part you need to examine, IMHO. Resolve it from the inside out. Take actions wholly, with all parts of you on-board, or not at all. 🙂

 

[gotmeds?]

I don't think it's cheating. You're still learning the material, right? It just so happens that your professor gets his questions from a source that you have available to you as well. He could do the smarter thing and get his questions from a variety of sources.

I don't think it's cheating at all.

So it's the professor's fault for not taking more stringent measures to prevent the cheating? I don't buy it. I have a simple rule to determine whether something is cheating: ask yourself if the professor would consider it cheating (or better yet, ask the professor). In the case of what the OP was asking about, of course it's cheating. I doubt the prof would be cool with you having the answers to all his tests beforehand. Coming up with some half-assed justification like saying that other people could also do it is just weak.

 

[Mr. McDuck]

I agree that asking the professor would be a bad idea. I also agree with the person that said you have to examine how YOU feel about the situation. Posting on here indicates that you feel a little guilty and are looking for affirmation that it's okay. If you are hesitant, don't do it, since it will probably eat you up later.

On the other hand, if you really don't think it's a big deal and just want to be sure, I say go for it. Don't stupidly announce it to everyone and brag about it, or talk to the professor about it. Don't bring it to class to look at while taking the exam. Just use it to study and hopefully you'll do well.

Someone mentioned problems at the end of chapters. Profs very frequently recycle these for tests and such. By an above poster's definition of cheating, using these problems to study knowing that they might reappear on an exam is cheating. That's stupid.

Go for it--or don't. It's really up to how you feel about it.

 

[joanofarc0907]

This happened in my AP European History class in highschool. It is only cheating if a person gains an unfair advantage. Therefore, if the entire class knows about and has access to this material it shouldn't be considered cheating. However an unfair advantage of knowing while the rest of the class is left in the dark, is cheating (or so that is what my board of education decided--and therefore no one in the class got in trouble)

 

[DMO]

Let's consider the general goal of an academic institution and the intentions behind anti-cheating rules.

Goal of Academic Institution = Produce students who possess a genuine understanding and mastery of the material of a particular discipline.

-->Cheating does not help to produce genuinely knowledgeable students.

Anti-cheating policy = Seeks to eliminate cheating and, ultimatley, encourages students to genuinely understand and master the material.

In my mind, it's not cheating. You are using the test bank to better understand and master the material. As other SDN'ers have posted, you aren't going to bring the test bank to exam day, and you aren't even sure if the test bank's questions are going to be used on the actual exam.

Is practicing MCAT test questions from Kaplan/TPR/Barron/Examkrackers considering cheating OR is it using the available materials to better understand and master the material?

You'll be fine if you just remember this goal: GENUINELY UNDERSTAND AND MASTER THE MATERIAL using any legal means available.

BY THE WAY--> If this is considered cheating, then it is the lamest way to cheat. If you're going to cheat, write answers on your arm or have a cough-system set up between your study buddies. A favorite is to etch answers into glassess. Some other fellow cheaters have suggested to have fake tatoos of the answers in another language.

Professor - "Oh, nice tattoo. What does it mean?"

Cheater - "This tatoo is Japanese for 'integrity' "

Professor - "Oh, that's nice."

Cheater mutters to himself - "It's actually Japanese for Adenine, Guanine, Thymine, and Cytosine....sucker"

😀

 

[gotmeds?]

There's a big difference between using the available materials and finding the prof's "secret stash" of questions, which is what the OP seemed to be talking about. I stand by what I said originally: if you think the professor would consider it cheating, then it's cheating. Would AMCAS consider taking an MCAT prep course cheating? Of course not. Would the professor consider practicing the problems in the back of the book cheating? No way. Comparing either to what the OP was talking about is a little disingenuous. I mean, it's obvious from the responses on this forum that it's a gray area, at best. You'd think that someone who's going into a profession that's supposed to require such a high amount of moral integrity would try to avoid it rather than do rhetorical backflips trying justify it.