Is this ethical?

[Prof Moriarty]

What's up with this guy calling his place a PM&R Center?

http://www.chiropractorpottsville.com/

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[VApmrdoc]

It is an interesting topic...

Technically he is truthful in his sign...

He does do Physical Medicine: "n.The branch of medicine that deals with the treatment, prevention, and diagnosis of disease by essentially physical means, including manipulation, massage, and exercise, often with mechanical devices, and the application of heat, cold, electricity, radiation, and water. Also called physiatrics, physiatry."

He does do rehabilitation as he lists himself as a physical therapist.
He is a doctor of Chiropractic medicine (He never said Physicians Choice or Physiatrists Choice).

I don't know much about Pottsville, but in all reality it may be an underserved area where the closest Physiatrist is far, far away. I would say as long as he doesn't promise a cure (with the skillfully applied 3x/week for 6 months treatment plan ) its not unethical.

 

[Ludicolo]

Not ethical. Maybe not legal either… someday.

http://www.aapmr.org/hpl/legislation/medical_soc_coalition.htm

http://www.aapmr.org/zdocs/hpl/healthcare_truth_act.pdf


“Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation” is a recognized MEDICAL specialty. Unless there is a physiatrist on board, this particular group appears to be marketing themselves as practicing MEDICINE.

 

[fozzy40]

Is the figure in the picture performing an subacromial injection on himself?!?

 

[RUOkie]

Is the figure in the picture performing an subacromial injection on himself?!?

It does look like that!

Interesting threadjack: I had a podiatrist referred to me for an EMG for leg pain and possible peroneal neuropathy. He didn't want it to hurt, so 20min before coming to my office, he did a peroneal nerve block on himself at the fibular head with Lidocaine and Marcaine.

 

[bedrock]

Bull****!

Physical Medicine: "n.The branch of medicine

..... No matter how much they might want to pretend, a chiro does not practice MEDICINE, which is the exclusive domain of physicans.

 

[The JockDoc]

Legal - probably. Ethical - no.

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

Email AAPM&R to see if they are interested in researching it, or contact one of the board members. We have an Chiro in my area who advertises similarly.

 

[VApmrdoc]

Once again playing devil's advocate, it's certainly a sensitive topic and sounds like the AAPMR has awareness of it based on the legislature Ludicolo presented, albeit narrow as in legalese it doesn't say specifically what words constitute misrepresentation. It would appear that if he simply put DC and MPT in the signage he could circumvent such legislature, as those would be his professional licenses and he does perform physical medicine techniques. In performance of those techniques his center is for rehabilitation.

Would a patient even understand the professional licenses when DO physicians can still be questioned by unknowing people? In all honesty even asking him if he is a "Doctor" he could say yes, how many patients would ask if he is a Physician? Many patients and (sadly) physicians still think physiatrists are physical therapists (was that included in that survey of what's confusing patients?).

This sounds like a WWBD moment. (Someone email Braddom and see if he'll put it in the next Physiatrist) oops, make that WWSD - fill in Sandel for Braddom.

 

[Ludicolo]

I can appreciate your devil’s counterargument in breaking down the use of the terms “physical medicine” and “rehabilitation”, although I feel your definition is a tad unsophisticated given our level of training. IMO – as a physiatrist – using the terms together implies something else entirely. You know, like our medical specialty.

And BTW – on his website he refers to himself as a chiropractic “physician” who practices chiropractic “medicine”.

So if one of these Pottsville patients ends up going to a real PM&R clinic – will they simply expect chiropractic treatment? Or would they even bother going to a PM&R clinic because they already tried “PM&R” and it didn’t work?

If someone is a chiropractor (or physical therapist), and fully believes in their chosen health care field, then why not simply embrace the term chiropractic (or physical therapy)?

 

[MotionDoc]

If someone is a chiropractor (or physical therapist), and fully believes in their chosen health care field, then why not simply embrace the term chiropractic (or physical therapy)?

It's a marketing ploy. He is taking advantage of the uninformed. It is our responsibility as health care professionals to educate patients and maintain a certain standard of care (from direct care to ethical conduct).

 

[olafa]

I saw this on a website with clinic bios... chiropractic physician what exactly does that mean... and on the description of clinic bios it says
"Dr..... is certified in electrodiagnosis and performs neurodiagnostic studies, diagnostic ultrasounds, and chiropractic care. He is also an integral part of our pain management departments integrated team approach."
It may be ok to say docotr technically with an advance degree one can call themself a "doctor" but a physician??? That is a total stretch and I alos did know chiros are certified to do EDX studies... seriously what training do they have for that. VERY misleading...

 

[AndyDufrane]

circle the wagons, we are under siege, we as physicians and physiatrists must come together and stop this fraud from fooling the lay public, it makes me frustrated to see this kind of crap, chiros are not physicians nor practice medicine, maybe we should engage in churning out research articles on how many spinal cord injuries or other bad outcomes result from providers other than MD or DO providers, and MDs or DOs goes through 4 years of college+4 years of med school+3-7 years of residency at least,( so at least 11-15 years of education/training) and MD and DO physicians still sometimes make mistakes, so who in their right mind would trust their health and well being with someone who has any less training then an MD/DO physician

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

Chiros have been calling themselves "physicians" for years. Government is unlikely to do anything about it, as the term has never been uniquely qualified to mean MD or DO.

I see more and more chiros doing EMG, some even needle, and plenty doing US. Like anyone, they seek out newer ways to supplement/improve income.

Many people prefer non-MDs. We charge too much, give too many poisons (meds) and stick them with needles. Others "practioners" use their hands more and talk more. People like that.

 

[bedrock]

I didn't realize that chiros can legally do needle EMG. Is that just in the deep south??
There was a case recently in New Jersey I believe where the medical board put down their foot on PAs doing needle EMG. Chiros have about the same amount of training, figure they shouldn't be allowed to perform a diagnostic test that physiatrists spend the equivalent of 4-6 full-time months learning while in residency.

 

[Ludicolo]

I didn't realize that chiros can legally do needle EMG. Is that just in the deep south??
There was a case recently in New Jersey I believe where the medical board put down their foot on PAs doing needle EMG. Chiros have about the same amount of training, figure they shouldn't be allowed to perform a diagnostic test that physiatrists spend the equivalent of 4-6 full-time months learning while in residency.

I believe the Texas medical association/medical board successfully sued the Texas chiro association regarding needle EMG/scope of practice issues. The case may still be in appeals though.

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

Apparently there are now fellowships in chiropractic. One in town here is a "Chiropractic Neurologist" and is apparently licensed to do needle exams. Another advertises himself as "Chiropractic Orthopedics and Sports Medicine." His ad says he is "Board Certified in Chiropractic and Orthopedics."

 

[lobelsteve]

Apparently there are now fellowships in chiropractic. One in town here is a "Chiropractic Neurologist" and is apparently licensed to do needle exams. Another advertises himself as "Chiropractic Orthopedics and Sports Medicine." His ad says he is "Board Certified in Chiropractic and Orthopedics."

And DABCR.

Diplomate of American Board of Chiropractic Radiology.

Have also seen chiro's and PT's doing trigger points.

Slippery slope from trigger point to facet injection to SCS to chiro's taking out gallbladders. Caveat emptor and strip the PIP.