Is this even possible!

[macmini]

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How is it going here a quick overview of my stats:

GPA: 3.8
Science 3.7

Almost all As in harder courses like o-chem, gen-chem, cell bio, evo-devo. The 3.7 come from some easy classes that I got a b in on the first year of college. The last 3 years have been 3.8 and above

EC:
Tutored for 1 year at private tutoring company
Marathon runner
Lots of other ECs like snowboarding, guitar, mountain biking
2 year church based mission in Argentina

27 years old

I had to take time off to care for my wife while she fought cancer (doing great by the way docs gave her a 50/50 shot!). While being a caregiver I took on or two classes and also worked to bring money in so we could have food. Here is the thing I really would like to be able to apply for 2009 admissions. So far I have only shadowed a PA for a while and one doc totaling 24 hours. I really need to shadow a doctor alot more to be able to apply. Also I have no research yet and no mcat score.


So here is my plan.....I am going part time this summer (huraaay!) for the first time to get my school and application in order. I have not had time to do these other things as taking care of my wife, working full time, and going to school too ALL of my time. Can I prep for the mcat in july 13 shadow a doc and get in some research in time to send in my application?

The I can prep for the mcat pretty well I have tutored alot of the basic science covered in the mcat and I feel pretty good about it.

Should I just wait or can I do it. Thanks!

 

[Luxian]

You could possibly make it for this year, but consider these two options:

You work parttime, do a smidgeon of research, AND study your butt off for the MCAT, take the MCAT by July, finish your apps by September and maybe get some interviews.

OR you do research long enough that you can actually get a good LOR from your research director, take long enough for the MCAT that you truly feel prepared, get some more volunteering/shadowing experience (your ECs are great, they're just not "clinical experience") and apply early in the cycle next year, sending in your app as soon as it opens in June.

I can't recommend it highly enough that you really do need to get your app in early unless you are a stellar candidate. If there's any weakness in your application, submitting it in October/Nov can sink you. (It sank me the first time I applied.) Being more prepared, gettings some good LORs and some good volunteer experience, and applying early will make you really well positioned to apply in 2009.

 

[fireflygirl]

You could possibly make it for this year, but consider these two options:

You work parttime, do a smidgeon of research, AND study your butt off for the MCAT, take the MCAT by July, finish your apps by September and maybe get some interviews.

OR you do research long enough that you can actually get a good LOR from your research director, take long enough for the MCAT that you truly feel prepared, get some more volunteering/shadowing experience (your ECs are great, they're just not "clinical experience") and apply early in the cycle next year, sending in your app as soon as it opens in June.

I can't recommend it highly enough that you really do need to get your app in early unless you are a stellar candidate. If there's any weakness in your application, submitting it in October/Nov can sink you. (It sank me the first time I applied.) Being more prepared, gettings some good LORs and some good volunteer experience, and applying early will make you really well positioned to apply in 2009.

I completely agree with Luxian. Take your time. I would spend this year studying for the MCAT and getting some other form of clinical experience under your belt. And then apply next summer for 2010. I feel like if you rushed everything this year, you may fall flat on your face and no one wants to have to go through the process twice. You're young and it seems like you already have a lot of great experiences - why not solidify your app in the best way possible and do it once and get into the schools that you want?

Congrats on your wife btw. That's great to hear she's doing well and it's nice to know that she had you by her side the whole time.

 

[gman33]

Prepping for the mcat takes time, especially if it's been a number of years since you've had the courses. You'd be surprised by how little you remember. You could take a practice test as a starting point.

I'd say you'd be better off waiting until next year, but you could give this year a shot.

 

[macmini]

I think you guys are right. It is tough waiting but what is really important is getting in to where I would like to go. Still a part of me would like to try for this semester but I can see the wisdom in waiting

 

[notdeadyet]

I think you guys are right. It is tough waiting but what is really important is getting in to where I would like to go. Still a part of me would like to try for this semester but I can see the wisdom in waiting

You're getting some good advice, macmini. Do keep in mind that a whole lot of folks find their dreams for med school in ashes because they rush things; very few applications take a bullet for being put together too slowly.

If you try to throw together an applicaton right now, you might wind up with little clinical experience and an MCAT that is lower than you're capable of. It may get you fewer acceptances than you'd have possible otherwise and you might have to move across the country and spend tens of thousands more than you'd have to in order to attend a school you would have preferred not to.

Spend the year to adequately prepare for the MCAT. Study it until you can't imagine studying it anymore and then take it at your leisure. While doing this, gain lots of clinical experience. Volunteering in the ER is pretty common, but you can get even better experience (much of the time) working at free clinics or in hospice. Spend lots of times with physicians to cement your goal.

I respectfully disagree with Luxian's research recommendation, though I understand the sentiment. I think that most folks making interview decisions read applications pretty well and will recognize a "smidgeon" of research for what it is: a checkbox for the app. It won't hurt you, but folks are aware of how little a summer of pippetting really does for your education.

Definitely do research if you have a passion for it. If you don't, it won't slam shut any doors. I had none and interviewed at UCSF and some other great schools. If you are hoping to go into medical research or a research-intensive specialty (rad-onc, comes to mind), then starting now is a great idea.

If your interests lie elsewhere, it just isn't a requirement. Folks quote statistics that at many med schools, 80% of folks have research experience (thought it's often of the smidgeon variety), but 80% of folks also have campus club leadership. Neither are required. It's just what premeds do.

Anyway, minor point. The rest is all on target. Take this slow and steady and you'll not only be in great shape, you'll have more options to choose from come med school selection time. And with your wife's recent experiences, you know how important a support network will be for both of you in the coming years.

Best of luck with your preparations. It's an exciting time...

 

[nlax30]

If you really need to put in an application for this upcoming cycle then work your butt off studying for the MCAT, and get in some clinical experience (shadowing, volunteering @ a clinic, etc...) Forget the research thing for this cycle.

Now if you can wait a year then you can spend some time and really get prepared for the MCAT, get some meaningful clinical experience. Not sure what your work situation is now, but maybe you could look into working at like a hospital or nursing home to get some clinical experience while also bringing in money. Especially with all the life circumstances surrounding you right now, don't stretch yourself too thin. For the most part, med schools are able to look your app in the context of your life and they realize that a normal, single, 20yr old undergrad student who doesn't have to work has the time to shadow, volunteer, go on mission trips, etc.... stuff that someone who is married, a little older, and especially in your case caring for a loved one, may not have as much time to devote to other things. Your first priority is to make sure you and your wife are cared for and supported.

So don't worry about trying to "check off" everything on your app. Use the fact that your a little older/more mature, have been able to care for your wife, and have been able to maintain an excellent GPA to your advantage. If I was an ADCOM that is MUCH more telling to me than whether you were able to fit in a couple months of research here or there. Unless you are truly interested in research, which in that case find the time for it and you will get out of it what you put in, but if you aren't that interested in it, then it will show and you won't be happy.

Kinda long, sorry, but I think you're in a good place. Your GPA is fine. Just blow away the MCAT and get some decent clinical experience in so you can really see what the practice of medicine is like and you should be fine.

 

[notdeadyet]

Not sure what your work situation is now, but maybe you could look into working at like a hospital or nursing home to get some clinical experience while also bringing in money.

If macmini is trapped in a dead end job, then this good advice. But I definitely would never recommend someone leave a solid job that has decent pay, benefits and job satisfaction to take something entry level with dubious clinical experience just to better an app. It's just not a requirement. Schools want to see that you have some clinical experience, but you don't have to drop a career and change bedpans or somesuch full time.

For the most part, med schools are able to look your app in the context of your life and they realize that a normal, single, 20yr old undergrad student who doesn't have to work has the time to shadow, volunteer, go on mission trips, etc.... stuff that someone who is married, a little older, and especially in your case caring for a loved one, may not have as much time to devote to other things.

Definitely disagree with this. You get no slack for being older. You have to jump through every hoop a 21 year old premed jumps through. No one says, "well, you have kids, you probably don't have time to volunteer." Your application is judged just the same as everyone elses.

In macmini's case, if macmini applied as proposed, his application would be rejected out of hand by most schools. He's 27 with zero experience in healthcare who is applying seemingly out of the blue, with only a matter of weeks worth of clinical exposure of any kind. Apps like this get killed quick. It just doesn't show any kind of dedication to medicine. It looks Johnny-come-lately, which is really bad for someone who is out of school 5 years and has had plenty of time to investigate something with depth.

Your first priority is to make sure you and your wife are cared for and supported.

Couldn't agree more. Just keep in mind that from the adcom's eyes, if the circumstances of his life doesn't allow time for volunteering, how the hell is it going to allow time for medical school?

Use the fact that your a little older/more mature, have been able to care for your wife, and have been able to maintain an excellent GPA to your advantage. If I was an ADCOM that is MUCH more telling to me than whether you were able to fit in a couple months of research here or there.

Adcoms won't worry about lack of research (unless macmini wraps his application in the context of finding the cure for HIV or somesuch) but they will worry about lack of clinical experience. The reasons adcoms are looking for volunteer and clinical experience as a MUST for 21 year olds are the same reasons that they are looking for it in 31 year olds. It doesn't get waved as you develop male pattern baldness.

The only requirement that I think adcoms are more lenient on in older applicants is possibly leadership experience, just because by the time an ambitious applicant has been in the workforce for five years, they've usually achieved more leadership experience than folks do as campus officers.

Your GPA is fine. Just blow away the MCAT and get some decent clinical experience in so you can really see what the practice of medicine is like and you should be fine.

Agreed. The big challenge for many non-trads is overcoming a poor undergrad performance, since they weren't interested in medicine in undergrad. Macmini is in good shape here. He just needs to go through the normal step that every applicant does before applying to medical school, especially gaining relevant clinical exposure. If the OP tries to apply now, his application will read as someone who at the age of 27 woke up in late spring and decided to become a doctor and applied a few months later, scrambling to patch together the necessary experience. Bad juju. If he takes a year and actually makes a strong application (not to mention makes sure that medicine is the right path for him), the world's his oyster.

 

[nlax30]

I definitely agree that the "best" route is to take the year and really build on the app, no doubt there. Was just presenting advice in case, for whatever reason, he HAD to apply this year.

And while being older and having to take care of life circumstances may not get you slack at many schools, I know it WILL be looked at and other things placed into that context at SOME schools. Definitely depends on who is looking at your app. But there's been many a student or even older applicant who came to medicine after having to care for a loved one.

And no, it's going to make up for not having a decent app or some clinical experience, but it's definitely something that will be considered....at least from my conversations with various ADCOMs. I do agree that someone isn't going to get extra slack just for being older or some other life circumstance, but as long as the person has a decent app that shows they are capable of handling a tough curriculum and are devoted to medicine (good grades, clinical experience, history of community involvement, maturity, etc...) then I don't think the non-trad person will be penalized (depends on the school) for not being able to devote the same amount of time to such activities that a traditional undergrad might be able to.

But yeah, if the OP has a decent job now then I probably wouldn't recommend switching, especially since without some sort of "certificate" or license the health jobs available will be bottom-rung minimum wage duties.....been there, done that.

 

[njbmd]

How is it going here a quick overview of my stats:

GPA: 3.8
Science 3.7

Almost all As in harder courses like o-chem, gen-chem, cell bio, evo-devo. The 3.7 come from some easy classes that I got a b in on the first year of college. The last 3 years have been 3.8 and above

EC:
Tutored for 1 year at private tutoring company
Marathon runner
Lots of other ECs like snowboarding, guitar, mountain biking
2 year church based mission in Argentina

27 years old

I had to take time off to care for my wife while she fought cancer (doing great by the way docs gave her a 50/50 shot!). While being a caregiver I took on or two classes and also worked to bring money in so we could have food. Here is the thing I really would like to be able to apply for 2009 admissions. So far I have only shadowed a PA for a while and one doc totaling 24 hours. I really need to shadow a doctor alot more to be able to apply. Also I have no research yet and no mcat score.


So here is my plan.....I am going part time this summer (huraaay!) for the first time to get my school and application in order. I have not had time to do these other things as taking care of my wife, working full time, and going to school too ALL of my time. Can I prep for the mcat in july 13 shadow a doc and get in some research in time to send in my application?

The I can prep for the mcat pretty well I have tutored alot of the basic science covered in the mcat and I feel pretty good about it.

Should I just wait or can I do it. Thanks!

Your chances hinge on how well you can prepare for the Medical College Admissions Test and do well. There have been plenty of people who really believed that they had the MCAT nailed only to wind up with a mediocre score. Do plenty of practice tests and be sure that you are thoroughly familiar with them manner in which the MCAT tests.

The knowledge base required is definitely no more advanced than the pre-med prerequisite courses. Being able to apply this knowledge base is where many folk crash. Make sure that you are not one of them.

Everything on the medical school application counts. You can't afford to "shortchange" anywhere because of hurry to apply. Take you time and make sure that you have reviewed and practiced well for the MCAT and achieved a strong performance, some solid clinical experience (which you don't have) and you write a clear and coherent personal statement that shows why you will make a good physician. To hurry any of the aspects of medical school application can invite problems.

 

[notdeadyet]

I definitely agree that the "best" route is to take the year and really build on the app, no doubt there. Was just presenting advice in case, for whatever reason, he HAD to apply this year.

I see your logic. There is just never a compelling reason in which you HAVE to send off a half-baked application. There's no age cut-off for med school. You're always better doing it right than doing it a year earlier wrong.

And while being older and having to take care of life circumstances may not get you slack at many schools, I know it WILL be looked at and other things placed into that context at SOME schools.

Oh, it will be placed in context at all schools. But at no school will they say, "well, he doesn't seem to have any real drive for medicine and has very little hands on exposure, but we'll cut him some slack since he's older and his wife is sick." His life circumstances may let schools forgive the fact that he only has two volunteer gigs on his app rather than four, but schools won't approve of only a few months of demonstrated interest in medicine.

Definitely depends on who is looking at your app. But there's been many a student or even older applicant who came to medicine after having to care for a loved one.

No argument there. But no one had admissions requirements waived because of it. If a school requires substantial clinical exposure (which most do), they will not waive it because of any circumstances.

I do agree that someone isn't going to get extra slack just for being older or some other life circumstance, but as long as the person has a decent app that shows they are capable of handling a tough curriculum and are devoted to medicine (good grades, clinical experience, history of community involvement, maturity, etc...) then I don't think the non-trad person will be penalized (depends on the school) for not being able to devote the same amount of time to such activities that a traditional undergrad might be able to.

You're sort of arguing both sides of the same point here. There is a baseline of clinical experience that is required of an applicant. You either have it or you don't. The OP doesn't have it and won't have it by time of application. Not for most schools.

Given his circumstances, he won't be expected to be jaunting off on expensive medical missions abroad and whatnot, but schools will want to see that he has devoted enough time to clinical experiences to both ensure that medicine is right for him and to learn what a doctor really does for a living.

A "decent app" includes substantial clinical volunteering. If you don't have it, you will be torpedo'd at almost any US medical school. Whether you're rich, poor, healthy, sick, young, old. It doesn't matter.

The OP should not feel the drive to make a best-of-breed application with all the whistles and bells, but he needs to make minimum. A few weeks of shadowing while scrambling to prepare for the MCAT will just look like a rushed application of someone who hasn't confirmed that medicine is right for him. This will sink him at most medical schools.

If he takes a year to adequately prepare (which incidentally, is much less time than most non-trads take), he'll be in good shape.

 

[notdeadyet]

Everything on the medical school application counts. You can't afford to "shortchange" anywhere because of hurry to apply. Take you time and make sure that you have reviewed and practiced well for the MCAT and achieved a strong performance, some solid clinical experience (which you don't have) and you write a clear and coherent personal statement that shows why you will make a good physician. To hurry any of the aspects of medical school application can invite problems.

Said more clearly and succinctly than I. Thanks, njbmd.

You probably have what it takes, macmini. You just have to prove it to the adcoms. And they want action, not words. Take the time to make your application sing and you have a decent chance. Rushing kills.

 

[nlax30]

You're sort of arguing both sides of the same point here.

I'm good at that. 😀

I agree though, he does definitely need the "basics" of a decent app. And at least he has good GPA, as that is a tremendous PAIN to bring up.....

 

[notdeadyet]

And at least he has good GPA, as that is a tremendous PAIN to bring up.....

Amen to that. What always pains me is when you see older non-trads who would make great doctors who have abyssmal GPAs from mispent youth 10 years prior. Retaking an MCAT or buffing up clinical experience is one thing. Trying to raise a bad GPA can take 2-3 years of full-time study just to get to a 3.3. Brrr...

 

[macmini]

Wow you guys are awesome so much good advice and help. I thought for sure that only one or two people would come out and help me out. I have been interested in medicine since I was a kid at 10 years old this not a new hat for me. It is just hard to show that to a school if I do my application this year. Like someone mentioned it only shows a couple of months of interest in medicine. Unfortunately how do I tell them in my application that while I have been interested there was literally no time for anything but work, 6-9 credits of classes and caring for my wife. It really seems like a good idea to wait and prep for my mcat. I think I will still take it in July as long as I still feel prepared for it in april. It just sucks that life doesn't do what you want it to do. But we have learned to let life go in the directions that are not exactly what we would like, and also we learned to push ahead and make our life what we want it to be. So in short maybe this year is not my year to apply but you can be assured that next year I will be fully prepared to apply with everything I need to be a good candidate.

 

[macmini]

By the way I did not mention this but I work in a children's hospital currently

 

[notdeadyet]

I have been interested in medicine since I was a kid at 10 years old this not a new hat for me.

Schools don't care so much you have an interest in medicine as much as you've done something about it. I had an interest in being a fullback for the Steeler's, but that didn't get me far either.

Unfortunately how do I tell them in my application that while I have been interested there was literally no time for anything but work, 6-9 credits of classes and caring for my wife.

I'd strongly recommend not taking that approach. If you don't have time for preparing for admissions, you most definitely do not have time for medical school. Telling adcoms that you haven't had time to meet their requirements is a very bad strategy.

If you don't have time for requirements while you take care of prereqs, finish your prereqs and move on to the requirements (volunteering, clinical experience, etc.). Do not use the "too busy" card because you'd be amazed what people find the time to do while working full time, raising kids, etc.

Best of luck with your application.

 

[macmini]

Thanks but I don't mean to tell them about anything about being busy. It was just rhetorical. BTW being a caregiver is much differnent than raising kids. Having a wife that is immunocompromised and at risk for infections that require immediate care or risk death from said infection and working and going to school is not the same. She had some of the scary infections like psuedomonas that put her pressure dangerously low and close to the edge. I am not sure how that is the same as kids(most students I know pawn their kids off to parents or thier wife). I really plan on applying next year but I wanted you to know by no means I am a slacker and if things would have allowed me to do it differently I would have. Family first for me and now that she is better I can do what I need to do to get ready.

 

[notdeadyet]

Thanks but I don't mean to tell them about anything about being busy. It was just rhetorical.

Ah, gotcha. And I don't mean to equate a sick wife with having kids, only in the sense that there are demands on your time more important than prepping for medical school.

No one would consider you a slacker for keeping your prioritieis straight. Now that it looks that you're wife is in good enough shape for you to hit the ground running, you can get your ducks in a row for medical school. A year sounds like a long time, but it's really very, very quick. It's about the right time to focus on your MCAT and start developing some ECs of depth that will impress adcoms. You'll be in good shape a year from now as you ready your application.

Good luck with your preparations and hope your wife's health continues to improve.

 

[Blade28]

Do not use the "too busy" card because you'd be amazed what people find the time to do while working full time, raising kids, etc.

I agree with this 100%.

Again. adcoms tend to look favorably on people who maintain a decent GPA and extra-curriculars while also saddled with commitments such as work, family, etc.

They're not usually so understanding of people who struggle through school with said commitments. Sure it's a more difficult situation, but when you consider how many other applicants have decent grades PLUS other things going on in their lives...

Agree that you should concentrate on doing well on the MCAT - and I'm glad to hear your wife is doing better now! 👍