Is this good enough?

[toptierhopeful]

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So, I have been lurking here forever. I finally decided to post. I am from a top 60 national university, and I am slightly concerned that my science grades are sub-par for a top 20 school.

My cGPA: 3.77
My sGPA:3.69-3.70
My all other GPA: 3.95
MCAT: 13, 10, 12

Science Grades:
General Chemistry I: A
General Chemistry II: A-
Biochemistry: A
Human Biology: A
Biology I: A-
Biology II: A-
Biology Lab: A
Physiology: A
Organic I: B (YIKES!)
Organic II: B+ (YIKES!!)
Genetics: B+
Advanced Genetics: A
Pharmacy I: A
Pharmacy II: A-
Pharmacy III: A
Physics I: A-
Physics II: B (YIKES!!)
Calculus: B (I hate Math)
Advanced Statistics: B+ (I hate Math)

Note: the above grades are not accurate. I switched them around for anonymity. But, the overall "trend" holds.

Should I go ahead and apply for top-tier (top 20) schools even though my grades aren't the greatest?

My extracurriculars are great. Several first-author/second-author pubs. Presentations. Volunteering. Starting an organization, etc.

Any thoughts? Advice?

Thank you so much!😍

 

[sector9]

Moving to "What are my chances?"

 

[BurntFlower]

Apply to mid and low tier schools as well.

 

[toptierhopeful]

Apply to mid and low tier schools as well.

Should I wait a year to boost my GPA upto a 3.85 and then apply? Or is that ridiculous? I don't think I want to retake the MCAT. That would be ridiculous.

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

Don't retake MCAT. Apply low and mid and add some top tiers.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Top 20 schools are a reach for all but the absolute best. Your GPA is low for those school. Be sure to apply broadly.

 

[JustMeditate]

You have excellent stats and, in my opinion, will definitely get into a medical school. But a top tier medical school? Now that's a reach.

Think about it. Your cumulative GPA is a 3.77. An excellent GPA, and definitely in the competitive range for medical schools, which is between a 3.7 and a 4.0. But just because you are a competitive applicant generally speaking, doesn't mean you are competitive at top tier schools. I think the average GPA of matriculants to medical school is a 3.6ish. Your 3.77 is way above that. But I think the average GPA of matriculants to Johns Hopkins is slightly above a 3.9. Your 3.77 is way below that.

At the level of competition you are talking about, there are literally hundreds of students applying with 3.85, 3.9, and 3.95 GPAs and your same MCAT and EC's. At that level of competition, even those with extraordinary stats aren't competitive and are, at the very best, on equal footing with their competitors, meaning that an acceptance is based on just a roll of the dice. With a 3.77, you're not even on equal footing with the competitors at top 20 schools.

Now, does that mean you shouldn't apply to top tier schools? No! Plenty of people below the average GPA for matriculants get in, and you should try. But is it a sure thing? No. Are you competitive for those schools? No.

Apply to top, middle, and low tier schools, or you'll have no reason to whine if you waste a few thousand dollars on applications and have nowhere to go next fall. Don't wait to increase your GPA and apply, either. Where you go to medical school will have little to no impact on your residency. As long as you get into medical school, and do well on the USMLE Step Exams, you'll eventually get a good job. And even IF you decided to do some post-bacc classes and move up to a 3.85, you'd still be below average for many of the top tier schools, and average at the rest, best case scenario.

If I may ask, why are you so desperate to go top tier?

 

[obbobbo]

They seem good enough to apply to some top tier schools, but I'd put in some middle ground schools as well. My friend had a 3.9 and a 37 MCAT and applied only to top tier schools and didn't get in anywhere (probably due to personality issues though).

 

[toptierhopeful]

You have excellent stats and, in my opinion, will definitely get into a medical school. But a top tier medical school? Now that's a reach.

Think about it. Your cumulative GPA is a 3.77. An excellent GPA, and definitely in the competitive range for medical schools, which is between a 3.7 and a 4.0. But just because you are a competitive applicant generally speaking, doesn't mean you are competitive at top tier schools. I think the average GPA of matriculants to medical school is a 3.6ish. Your 3.77 is way above that. But I think the average GPA of matriculants to Johns Hopkins is slightly above a 3.9. Your 3.77 is way below that.

At the level of competition you are talking about, there are literally hundreds of students applying with 3.85, 3.9, and 3.95 GPAs and your same MCAT and EC's. At that level of competition, even those with extraordinary stats aren't competitive and are, at the very best, on equal footing with their competitors, meaning that an acceptance is based on just a roll of the dice. With a 3.77, you're not even on equal footing with the competitors at top 20 schools.

Now, does that mean you shouldn't apply to top tier schools? No! Plenty of people below the average GPA for matriculants get in, and you should try. But is it a sure thing? No. Are you competitive for those schools? No.

Apply to top, middle, and low tier schools, or you'll have no reason to whine if you waste a few thousand dollars on applications and have nowhere to go next fall. Don't wait to increase your GPA and apply, either. Where you go to medical school will have little to no impact on your residency. As long as you get into medical school, and do well on the USMLE Step Exams, you'll eventually get a good job. And even IF you decided to do some post-bacc classes and move up to a 3.85, you'd still be below average for many of the top tier schools, and average at the rest, best case scenario.

If I may ask, why are you so desperate to go top tier?

I want to be in academics - more opportunities if I were to go to a top tier. That's really it.

My goal medical schools are Vanderbilt, Mount Sinai, Emory, Tufts, Boston, Dartmouth, Oregon, Case Western. I would be happy if I got into one of these schools. I am definitely not shooting for Hopkins or anything.

In terms of EC, I have implemented a program that's used by students across the world. Published in highly ranked journals. Have 3 first-author publications. 1 presentation. 2 grants. Clinical research, bench research, sociology research. 1000 hours of clinical volunteering. Started a student organization. Started a GlobeMed Chapted at my school as well. Oh and I am an immigrant. Will these make-up for the poor GPA? Would I have a shot at the above-mentioned schools?

 

[V5RED]

Should I wait a year to boost my GPA upto a 3.85 and then apply? Or is that ridiculous? I don't think I want to retake the MCAT. That would be ridiculous.

Get a copy of the MSAR and check the stats for the schools you consider top tier.

The general recommendation on this board is using a "LizzyM" score of GPA*10+MCAT and comparing that to the school's average LizzyM score.

If you are not within one or two points of their score and you are not black, native american, or hispanic, that school is probably out of your reach.

 

[JustMeditate]

Will these make-up for the poor GPA? Would I have a shot at the above-mentioned schools?

#1. You do not have a "poor GPA."

#2. Those EC's really are amazing, and since most top tier schools prefer applicants with heavy research, I certainly think they will put you at an advantage. But realize that at top tier schools, there is no such thing as a "sure thing". Apply broadly, but be optimistic. You definitely have a shot, and a good one, at the schools you mentioned. Just don't let that blind your judgement, such that you ONLY apply top tier. There are at least a few sob stories posted here each year, with 4.0 students asking why they didn't get an invite, and its usually because they ran away with their ego and only applied top tier.

 

[sector9]

I want to be in academics - more opportunities if I were to go to a top tier. That's really it.

Where'd you hear that?

LizzyM has said that a lot of the professors at her school went to their state school. Lower tuition=less debt=greater ability to take a lower paying job like in academics

Obviously try to improve your GPA but don't take a year off to do it. Apply broadly and go to med school. If you get in to a top tier school, then great! If not, then don't worry about it

 

[LizzyM]

Your grades aren't that bad, your MCAT is not bad. Your experiences are good. You aren't guaranteed an interview at every top 20 school but you have a decent shot if your PS, secondary and LORs are OK.

On the other hand, if you want to go into academics, attend the least expensive school that accepts you determining "least expensive" after looking at grants & scholarships that are offered to you (sometimes a private school will be less than a public school after merit & need-based aid is factored in). Where you attend school is less a factor in academic medicine than where you do your residency & fellowship.