Is This Kosher?

[kosher123]

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From a simply *legal* standpoint- is it Kosher to double match?

For example, lets say a candidate applied (and matched) to one of the earlier matches for an advanced position. Let's say Ophtho.

Via the "regular" match, the same candidate applied for a prelim position... and just for back-up applied to other advanced positions, let's say Anesthesia.

Logistically speaking, candidate hasn't recieved ANY paperwork from their Ophtho match (which happens to have an extra research year as part of the program).

When submitting rank list in a few days- can the candidate list the Anesthesia programs (as well as prelims) and have a "change of heart" before July 2012?

Does the prelim program see where you've matched categorically?

Is there any sort of reciprocity between the SF Match and NRMP?

Thank You.

 

[Samoa]

As part of your agreement to participate in the NRMP match, you agreed not to rank any conflicting positions if you match to an advanced position through another matching program.

 

[Golding]

Suffice it to say, you'd be sorry if you did that.

 

[kosher123]

As part of your agreement to participate in the NRMP match, you agreed not to rank any conflicting positions if you match to an advanced position through another matching program.

yes- i'm well aware of this- I guess to rephrase: plenty of people have a change of heart regarding advanced positions...they do their first prelim year and find out that they don't really like ophto, neuro etc. or perhaps even that they find another discipline more suited to them. This happens, all the time.

No one has answered the question if there is an reciprocity between SF Match and NRMP. or if program directors for prelim year find out where the advance position is. Also- what to do if no contracts have been signed (for the early match)

 

[OncoticPressure]

Doing this would be a direct violation of the NRMP Match Agreement. Breaking your contract with the NRMP would not have good consequences. I'm not a program director obviously, but I believe they have some sort of way of seeing places you've matched to previously. Not sure how this works with the SF Match though. Programs can also be subject to a match violation if they even discuss a position with a matched applicant.

 

[kosher123]

Doing this would be a direct violation of the NRMP Match Agreement. Breaking your contract with the NRMP would not have good consequences. I'm not a program director obviously, but I believe they have some sort of way of seeing places you've matched to previously. Not sure how this works with the SF Match though. Programs can also be subject to a match violation if they even discuss a position with a matched applicant.

well, what about FMG/IMG's that prematch...and STILL enter the NRMP match hoping for "something better" subsequently relinquishing their prematch offer? Again, this happens all the time.

Or even the DO who matches thru their Osteopathic match and still goes thru the NRMP match for allopathic training?

If people prefer, please PM me since this is a touchy subject.

 

[cowme]

It's about as kosher as this

Seriously, if you went through the SF Match, and also do NRMP (for anesthesia), you will be a violator of both, and risk never being able to apply to either again.

SF Match rules:

"I understand that I cannot avoid accepting an appointment to which I have been matched without a written release from the applicable program. I also understand that another program cannot offer a position to me unless I have this release. I understand that releases are not automatic and my actions may be challenged.

By submitting a rank list, both the applicants' choices and the program directors choices make the match result a binding commitment. However; Any offer made is contingent upon satisfactory completion of the prerequisite training as generally required and special requirements if specified by a particular training program;

If I obtain a position in this match, I will withdraw from all other matches in post-graduate medicine that compete and conflict with this match. I agree that Match results may be sent other formal matching programs as notice of action under their respective rules. "

 

[cowme]

yes- i'm well aware of this- I guess to rephrase: plenty of people have a change of heart regarding advanced positions...they do their first prelim year and find out that they don't really like ophto, neuro etc. or perhaps even that they find another discipline more suited to them. This happens, all the time.

Yes, it Happens, but you need a WRITTEN RELEASE from your program first (see post above). You waited way too long, now there are only 2 days left to submit NRMP lists. If you truly want to give up your optho spot for anesthesia, call your program FIRST thing in the morning tomorrow and ask for a release. You can do this too during your prelim year, but you will have to reapply as an independent applicant.

No one has answered the question if there is an reciprocity between SF Match and NRMP. or if program directors for prelim year find out where the advance position is. Also- what to do if no contracts have been signed (for the early match)

There is most definitely reciprocity (see post above), so you will F yourself if you try.

 

[indynshrty]

well, what about FMG/IMG's that prematch...and STILL enter the NRMP match hoping for "something better" subsequently relinquishing their prematch offer? Again, this happens all the time.

Or even the DO who matches thru their Osteopathic match and still goes thru the NRMP match for allopathic training?

If people prefer, please PM me since this is a touchy subject.

DO's who match through the osteopathic match are withdrawn from the NMRP match.

 

[docbill]

well, what about FMG/IMG's that prematch...and STILL enter the NRMP match hoping for "something better" subsequently relinquishing their prematch offer? Again, this happens all the time.

Or even the DO who matches thru their Osteopathic match and still goes thru the NRMP match for allopathic training?

If people prefer, please PM me since this is a touchy subject.

Which ever way you try to rationalize it. It is still illegal.

- FMG with a prematch that stay in the match, eventually lose both spots (assuming they match in NRMP). FMG giving up a prematch offer after accepting and signing the contract is illegal and does not happen all the time (please provide source for your statement).

If the program reports an applicant to NRMP/ECFMG, then that person can get a lifetime ban from re-applying (after losing prematch offer).

Most programs will check to see if someone is still in the match or if they withdrew.

- DO students with either prematch (see above)

- DO students who match via AOA get withdrawn from NRMP.

- This also apply to people participating in the San Fran match or Canadian match. When you applied to the San Fran programs, you agreed to the terms. Saying you did not read the contract you signed on line doesn't go far.

 

[Law2Doc]

... Again, this happens all the time.
...

Um, first it doesn't happen all the time. Second, saying "it happens all the time" isn't a defense for breaching a contract. There are people who don't pay their car lease. Think the repo men care that you are going to say "Hey, it happens all the time?" It in fact doesn't happen much because the penalties for getting caught are draconian. You can lose both spots, and be banned from the match. It can ruin your professional career. I'm sure a few people have gotten away with it, but they are very lucky and were very foolish. So no, nobody is going to tell you this is a good idea.

 

[HoboGumm]

Why not scrambling into a preferred residency if it happens to be open?

Since signing outside the match is not subject to the rules, this might be OK for your situation.

Good luck!

 

[Law2Doc]

Why not scrambling into a preferred residency if it happens to be open?

Since signing outside the match is not subject to the rules, this might be OK for your situation.

Good luck!

Even if this was ok under the rules, which it isn't, if you don't enter the match, you aren't going to legally get the list for the scramble, and lots of luck getting looked at by a lot of places if you can't send them stuff via ERAS etc.