Is this program in trouble?

[MDPower]

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Members don't see this ad.

Does any one know why Atlantic Health System (Morristown Memorial Hospital, New Jersey) is at the bottom of 250 surgical training programs in the country?

30% passage rate for general surgical board (written/oral).

https://home.absurgery.org/xfer/fyp2007summary.pdf


Is it taking a chance going to this program for surgical training?

I like to stay local for family reasons.

Thanks

 

[MDPower]

Does anyone out there have the inside scoop? Is the program in transition?

 

[skidad]

This program is not in trouble. The list referred to reflects board passage rates and is maintained as an average over five years. A group of 4 residents about 4 years ago failed their board exams and this dragged the average down. New Chair, New Program Director and a new philosophy make this a vibrant program which was just fully re-accredited in 2006 by the Surgery RRC. Passage rates are on the rise. Check it out for yourself.

 

[MCP '06]

This program is not in trouble. The list referred to reflects board passage rates and is maintained as an average over five years. A group of 4 residents about 4 years ago failed their board exams and this dragged the average down. New Chair, New Program Director and a new philosophy make this a vibrant program which was just fully re-accredited in 2006 by the Surgery RRC. Passage rates are on the rise. Check it out for yourself.

How do get 30% passage rate over 5 years (for a total of 20 graduates) if only 4 residents failed.
And I am being told that the “new” Chair-man has been there for at least 6 to 7 years. ??

 

[SLUser11]

How do get 30% passage rate over 5 years (for a total of 20 graduates) if only 4 residents failed.
And I am being told that the “new” Chair-man has been there for at least 6 to 7 years. ??

He didn't say only 4 residents failed. He said that they brought the average down.

 

[chowhound]

New Chair, New Program Director and a new philosophy make this a vibrant program which was just fully re-accredited in 2006 by the Surgery RRC. Passage rates are on the rise. Check it out for yourself.

How long has the new chair been around? The only other program I see listed with a similar board passage rate is Graduate Hospital which recently shut down.

 

[skidad]

The chairman came in early 2003 and the program director in late 2005. Residency programs take a few cycles of strong recruiting in order to change in character, which has been accomplished and is continuing. A visit for an interview and speaking with the current residents to see the academic program that is in place is the best way to evaluate.

 

[MDRounds]

...

 

[JackADeli]

check more recent data:
https://home.absurgery.org/xfer/fyp2008summary.pdf

 

[BlondeDocteur]

It's a really well thought-of community program here. Absolutely stunning, gorgeous facilities; ancillary staff who care and do their jobs well; lots of money and new toys; decent fellowship opportunities. I have at least one classmate who's ranking it first.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Agree with BlondeDocteur...the facilities are gorgeous.

When doing my fellowship in Jersey, I never heard anything negative about the training there (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but info wasn't widespread).

 

[premiergator]

Agree with BlondeDocteur...the facilities are gorgeous.

When doing my fellowship in Jersey, I never heard anything negative about the training there (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but info wasn't widespread).

hey WS, I sent you a pm.

 

[kirurg]

I interviewed there last year. If it were in NYC, I would have ranked it higher. Everyone was extremely nice, and it seemed like a the residents got along well with eachother and with the attendings. At the pre-interview dinner, I had the chance to talk with a lot of the attendings, and they seemed involved with resident education. It's just kind of in the middle of no-where (but great town as far as suburbs go).

 

[MCP '06]

I have only heard great things about this place. Even if majority of the graduates do not pass their boards; there are still some places in the United States where you can practice general surgery without board certification. So what’s the big deal?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I have only heard great things about this place. Even if majority of the graduates do not pass their boards; there are still some places in the United States where you can practice general surgery without board certification. So what’s the big deal?

Because that (being able to practice without being BC) may not last for long and may severely limit your practice options.

 

[JackADeli]

I have only heard great things about this place. Even if majority of the graduates do not pass their boards; there are still some places in the United States where you can practice general surgery without board certification. So what's the big deal?

1. There is NOTHING great about a program that most grads do not or can not get board certified. That is then not a training program it is a social experiment.
2. The AMA and/or other organizations may have a statement/position that goes something like ~privileges should be based on training/experience and not board certification..... But,

a. Insurance companies are declining referrals (and reimbursement) to non-BE/BC physicians in all specialties.
b. Malpractice carriers are not covering folks practicing outside the scope of their specialty... and the definition of it being your specialty is in many instances more and more BE/BC.... that certificate gives you membership to the club, and "membership has its privileges".
c. Hospitals are requiring BE/BC for privileges and Bylaws are requiring completion of BC within a set period of time (see points a & b to understand the business aspects of this position).

All of these points are not universal but are getting there. So, any position by any organization about privileges without certification is becoming mute.

 

[droliver]

c. Hospitals are requiring BE/BC for privileges and Bylaws are requiring completion of BC within a set period of time (see points a & b to understand the business aspects of this position)

Yep. I'm on staff at 7 hospitals, all of whom required board certification (BC) within two years of being granted staff credentials

 

[JackADeli]

... Even if majority of the graduates do not pass their boards...

In general and not specific to any program.... disregard all that was said, etc....
My question is: do you really want to graduate from a program in which you are not taught or are unable to learn the basics required to "pass the test"? You don't want to be the physician (surgeon or otherwise) that everyone says, "well, you know, he/she isn't board certified, but he/she's a really, really nice guy/gal"!

Think about it from the otherside.... Does anyone graduating from med school want to match in a program they didn't want to really attend but was the only place that would accept them??? It is great to go and train in a medicine/OB/uro/surg/etc... program where everyone gets along and is "really nice". But in the end, are you really trained and at your best when coming out?