Is this really fair?!

[vin5cent0]

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In my orgo class, my teacher was growing increasingly concerned about lab participation. Basically, he was finding that in some lab groups, one person wasn't contributing much to the lab and reports because the rest of their team was finding them to either not be useful or to be dragging the rest down.

To "fix" this, my teacher decided it would be fair to administer quizzes at the end of each lab, each taken independently. Our lab grade would then be averaged between the three in each group, and each member got that grade. Obviously you can see where the problems would start to arise.

We had our first lab quiz on tues of last week. One of my partners and I both understood what was going on in the lab (basically, it was examining the amount of strain induced by axial and equitorial groups on conformations). We both got 5/5 on the lab. Our other partner, who helped us throughout the entire lab, got a 0/5! He simply just doesn't understand o-chem in the slightest. Now my grade for that quiz is a D, or ~16/25 (he multiplies the grade to give it a higher significance).

How on Earth is this fair? I walked away from the lab understanding it quite well, but by his logic, I earned a D because my partner didn't grasp it. This week, we made sure that we all knew what was going on in lab. After taking the quiz, we talked it over and again, that same partner was absolutely clueless about what we did in lab! WTH!

My (good) lab partner and I spoke to our prof. I got a 4/5 on this quiz, my other partner got a 5/5, and our (bad) partner got a .5/5 (and it was a pity [half]-point!). Prof told us his grade will improve if we include him more. C'mon..

 

[redsquareblack]

That's absolute rubbish. I understand the prof's motivation, but that's completely unfair.

 

[seelee]

That really sucks. The only thing I can suggest is finding other students who have the same concern and talk to the department chair, or a higher up and present your case rationally. If all else fails, then get together and form a study group and make sure your partner knows his stuff.

 

[insane]

fair or unfair, doesn't matter, life's not fair deal with it, stop whining and help your lab partner

 

[schrizto]

what the heck... I would complain.

 

[sunshinevet]

There's going to be many times in your future scholastic and graduate career where your ass is going to depend on other people. Yeah, I know it totally sucks, and I would complain too, but group work is an important part of the med school, and med career process. (Yes, i do do animals, but really, its all the same...)
At some point in time, you will be open to getting majorly burned because someone around you didnt have an understanding of what was going on. It could be in a group assessment, or it could be in the death of a patient. Unfortunately, you have to learn to work with the system. Now that you know he is a liability to YOUR grades, you need to take responsibility for that part of it - sit down with him BEFORE the lab, go through all the science behind it until he understands, go through the process, integrate him into the experiment, and quiz him while your at it. Yeah, it sucks. But you gotta just suck it up and do what you can.

It's all about playing the game. If you haven't learnt it yet, you will soon! 🙄

 

[njbmd]

In my orgo class, my teacher was growing increasingly concerned about lab participation. Basically, he was finding that in some lab groups, one person wasn't contributing much to the lab and reports because the rest of their team was finding them to either not be useful or to be dragging the rest down.

To "fix" this, my teacher decided it would be fair to administer quizzes at the end of each lab, each taken independently. Our lab grade would then be averaged between the three in each group, and each member got that grade. Obviously you can see where the problems would start to arise.

We had our first lab quiz on tues of last week. One of my partners and I both understood what was going on in the lab (basically, it was examining the amount of strain induced by axial and equitorial groups on conformations). We both got 5/5 on the lab. Our other partner, who helped us throughout the entire lab, got a 0/5! He simply just doesn't understand o-chem in the slightest. Now my grade for that quiz is a D, or ~16/25 (he multiplies the grade to give it a higher significance).

How on Earth is this fair? I walked away from the lab understanding it quite well, but by his logic, I earned a D because my partner didn't grasp it. This week, we made sure that we all knew what was going on in lab. After taking the quiz, we talked it over and again, that same partner was absolutely clueless about what we did in lab! WTH!

My (good) lab partner and I spoke to our prof. I got a 4/5 on this quiz, my other partner got a 5/5, and our (bad) partner got a .5/5 (and it was a pity [half]-point!). Prof told us his grade will improve if we include him more. C'mon..

Instead of whining about the problem, fix it. Help your lab partner to understand what's going on. Who cares about fair? Nothing in the world is "fair". If you want your grade to go up, then you know what you have to do. Get the problem fixed because obviouly your lab grade isn't about what you get or what your partner gets on a test but what your group gets.

 

[seelee]

What a bunch of hard-asses. I maintain that you should talk to the chair of the department or a dean.

It may not help your situation. But if you present your case rationally, it won't hurt either.

In the meantime, work with your partner.

 

[ziggydoc]

This isn't a group situation. I mean yes, you have to have lab partners because of logistic issues, but at end of the day, college education is about what YOU have gained from classes. It is absolutely not fair to assess each person in the group individually, then turn around and reward/punish the whole group for it. If it is a group project, then test the ENTIRE group at once. Talk to your department chair, this is not ok.

 

[He2]

if there really is any place for a communism for capitalism debate...this is it. 😀

Your TA is a COMMIE!!!!!!!!!

 

[BlitzSleep]

Help your lab partner to understand what's going on.

Wow, am I my brother's keeper?


Also, you can't help someone that doesn't want to help themselves. Some people take Organic chem just to get their BS or BA so getting a C tickles their fancy. Others like us (generally) strive to do our best.

 

[armybound]

A couple of things.. in medicine, you are your brother's keeper. Not just your patients, but your fellow physicians. Teamwork is a must.

Second, I would talk to the department chair or dean. Someone else's personal performance shouldn't be allowed to negatively impact your grade.

 

[BlitzSleep]

A couple of things.. in medicine, you are your brother's keeper. Not just your patients, but your fellow physicians. Teamwork is a must.

That's medicine, this is undergraduate organic chem lab. His partner is probably beer pong champion of his frat. Just sayin'

 

[lstone13]

In my orgo class, my teacher was growing increasingly concerned about lab participation. Basically, he was finding that in some lab groups, one person wasn't contributing much to the lab and reports because the rest of their team was finding them to either not be useful or to be dragging the rest down.

To "fix" this, my teacher decided it would be fair to administer quizzes at the end of each lab, each taken independently. Our lab grade would then be averaged between the three in each group, and each member got that grade. Obviously you can see where the problems would start to arise.

We had our first lab quiz on tues of last week. One of my partners and I both understood what was going on in the lab (basically, it was examining the amount of strain induced by axial and equitorial groups on conformations). We both got 5/5 on the lab. Our other partner, who helped us throughout the entire lab, got a 0/5! He simply just doesn't understand o-chem in the slightest. Now my grade for that quiz is a D, or ~16/25 (he multiplies the grade to give it a higher significance).

How on Earth is this fair? I walked away from the lab understanding it quite well, but by his logic, I earned a D because my partner didn't grasp it. This week, we made sure that we all knew what was going on in lab. After taking the quiz, we talked it over and again, that same partner was absolutely clueless about what we did in lab! WTH!

My (good) lab partner and I spoke to our prof. I got a 4/5 on this quiz, my other partner got a 5/5, and our (bad) partner got a .5/5 (and it was a pity [half]-point!). Prof told us his grade will improve if we include him more. C'mon..

You're right, this isn't fair. Were these quizzes mentioned in the syllabus? And were the quiz grades, on the syllabus, factored into your final grade? If not, then it is my understanding that he has no legal standing to incorporate those quizzes into your final grade. If the answer to those questions is both no, then talk to the professor about your problem, and if that doesn't work, go to his superior.

Now, that being said, go ahead and help out your lab partner. If your grade depends on it, make sure he/she gets the material and plan study sessions with your lab partner before lab.

 

[armybound]

That's medicine, this is undergraduate organic chem lab. His partner is probably beer pong champion of his frat. Just sayin'

I'm sure medical schools would rather admit someone who has demonstrated teamwork than someone who has plans on developing it later.

 

[redsquareblack]

Wow, am I my brother's keeper?


Also, you can't help someone that doesn't want to help themselves. Some people take Organic chem just to get their BS or BA so getting a C tickles their fancy. Others like us (generally) strive to do our best.

👍

I'm a bit annoyed by the "suck it up" crowd on this thread. The situation, as you've presented it, is one in which despite your best efforts, you will be limited by the efforts and performance of the weakest link in your group.

As others have rightly pointed out, it is true that in life, you will often find yourself working in groups, and will be expected to take ownership over the performance of the group as a whole, regardless of your own performance. But in the context of learning, the expectation that a group of students should be bound by the performance of the group as a whole, regardless of their individual efforts, isn't an effective life lesson. It's lazy teaching, born out of the desire to do less subjective evaluation of students' participation.

So long as OP actually gives a damn about getting into medical school, he or she will work to get good grades. So long as the partner in question recognizes that he can squeak by with little or no effort, he won't. So this arrangement solves nothing. Some around here seem hellbent on pursuing a policy of absolute personal responsibility, under which, instead of "whining", the OP ought to recognize that he/she needs to make sure this guy understands the material. But what of the personal responsibility of the other guy? Why should the OP be bound by this guy's unwillingness to put forth the effort?

If the teacher wants to issue an average grade for each group, then perhaps instead of administering individual quizzes that are then subsequently averaged, he or she should administer a single quiz to each group. The members of each group can agree on their answers and then turn it in.

I agree, OP should "stop whining" and fix the problem, but fixing the problem includes discussing the matter, climbing the chain of command if need be.

 

[BlitzSleep]

I'm sure medical schools would rather admit someone who has demonstrated teamwork than someone who has plans on developing it later.

Yeah I definitely agree. But we are not aware of his partner's situation. He could be a student that just wants to just pass. I've learned from experience that you cannot help people that are not willing to put forth an effort to help themselves, no matter how hard you try. If the OP has to retake the lab, it would be a perfectly waste of a retake (we are allowed 3 retakes at my university, not sure about other ones).

 

[BBender716]

👍

I'm a bit annoyed by the "suck it up" crowd on this thread. The situation, as you've presented it, is one in which despite your best efforts, you will be limited by the efforts and performance of the weakest link in your group.

As others have rightly pointed out, it is true that in life, you will often find yourself working in groups, and will be expected to take ownership over the performance of the group as a whole, regardless of your own performance. But in the context of learning, the expectation that a group of students should be bound by the performance of the group as a whole, regardless of their individual efforts, isn't an effective life lesson. It's lazy teaching, born out of the desire to do less subjective evaluation of students' participation.

So long as OP actually gives a damn about getting into medical school, he or she will work to get good grades. So long as the partner in question recognizes that he can squeak by with little or no effort, he won't. So this arrangement solves nothing. Some around here seem hellbent on pursuing a policy of absolute personal responsibility, under which, instead of "whining", the OP ought to recognize that he/she needs to make sure this guy understands the material. But what of the personal responsibility of the other guy? Why should the OP be bound by this guy's unwillingness to put forth the effort?

If the teacher wants to issue an average grade for each group, then perhaps instead of administering individual quizzes that are then subsequently averaged, he or she should administer a single quiz to each group. The members of each group can agree on their answers and then turn it in.

I agree, OP should "stop whining" and fix the problem, but fixing the problem includes discussing the matter, climbing the chain of command if need be.

+1

There's a difference between linking grades where you can have a large, direct, and deciding impact on the final grade, like with a group project where one product is turned in, and when you have little control over the final outcome of a partner's contribution.

With a project, you can pick up the slack and work your butt off to make up the grade. With this quiz format, you can go over it and over it with your struggling lab partner and thoroughly include him (according to the OP), but you cannot take his quiz for him if he still doesn't get it at all, which leaves a large part of this final quiz grade out of your hands.

This mechanism of grading does not measure "teamwork" and more teamwork will NOT solve the problem, so let's drop the "you just need to work better in a team [suggestion] or you will be a poor doctor [unnecessary insult]" argument. With this grading mechanism, you can't have everyone participate in the team and work on something their good at and then bring it together and polish the final result, catching each other's errors and learning from them. The preparation for the quiz is team-oriented. But ultimately, these quizzes are taken individually.

There are other factors than "lab participation" and "group support/prep" that affect quiz performance such as personal motivation to understand the material, personal/family problems that affects academic performance, hell, even undiagnosed test anxiety/ADHD. The point is that there are more factors than may be readily apparent that cannot be adequately compensated for (nor should they be expected to be!) by the other two partners, making this grading mechanism, well-intentioned but ultimately unfair and does not reflect on the partners' ability to function in a team environment.


...I know this would drive me up the walls.

 

[seelee]

I'm sure medical schools would rather admit someone who has demonstrated teamwork than someone who has plans on developing it later.

Fail. Medical schools admit people who have high GPAs and high MCATs. You can have all the "teamwork" skills in the world, and a low GPA and guess what? You will be filling out applications to caribbean schools.

Yes as a physican you will have to work with people. But as a physican you are the boss, if someone on your team isn't pulling his load then you have a recourse. For those of you who would keep weak and dysfunctional members on your team in spite of their failures, please list your names so I know not to go to your hospital/clinic. I want a doctor who does what is necessary to get a good outcome, not someone who is so infatuated with feely-good people skills that he can't kick a looser teammate in the ass.

 

[armybound]

Fail. Medical schools admit people who have high GPAs and high MCATs. You can have all the "teamwork" skills in the world, and a low GPA and guess what? You will be filling out applications to caribbean schools.

Yes as a physican you will have to work with people. But as a physican you are the boss, if someone on your team isn't pulling his load then you have a recourse. For those of you who would keep weak and dysfunctional members on your team in spite of their failures, please list your names so I know not to go to your hospital/clinic. I want a doctor who does what is necessary to get a good outcome, not someone who is so infatuated with feely-good people skills that he can't kick a looser teammate in the ass.

And in the dumbest, most hypothetical circular argument in the world, I'd say enjoy your failing rotation grades when your attending comes down on you for refusing to help out your fellow student. I'm sure you know that how well your teammate performs affects the outcome of real human lives, so refusing to help a fellow student or physician out is pretty ******ed.

Bottom line, I am not saying this kid is responsible for teaching the other student and making sure he's up to par as an undergrad. What I said is that he will be expected to do so in the practice of medicine, and a demonstration of teamwork as an undergrad, when it is not necessary, may really impress an admissions committee. I did not say it was required for admissions. Note where I said "In medicine..." and then "Second, I would talk to..."

And let's not get into this "Your practice is going to suck" discussion. The model you choose for your practice may not be a model that everyone follows, and the type of personality you put toward your coworkers may be unacceptable to others.

 

[LizzyM]

I'm basing this on what I'd advise my own children. Accept the things you cannot change, change the things you can.


Drop the lab while there is still time. Take it later with someone else.

Drama over.

 

[schrizto]

lol, if the OP drops the class the other guy who does well on his own quizzes is screwed. It'll be him and the guy who gets 0s on his quizzes. What if the professor averages the grades in a two-person group together, then any bad grades the other person gets gets counted for 50% instead of the 1/3 it is now. More drama.

 

[BBender716]

lol, if the OP drops the class the other guy who does well on his own quizzes is screwed. It'll be him and the guy who gets 0s on his quizzes. What if the professor averages the grades in a two-person group together, then any bad grades the other person gets gets counted for 50% instead of the 1/3 it is now. More drama.

Or problem solved if you can convince the struggling student to drop...

"I heard the next professor is a TON easier... I think we should drop and have a fresh start." Then stay in the class.

Problem solved. lol

 

[seelee]

And in the dumbest, most hypothetical circular argument in the world, I'd say enjoy your failing rotation grades when your attending comes down on you for refusing to help out your fellow student. I'm sure you know that how well your teammate performs affects the outcome of real human lives, so refusing to help a fellow student or physician out is pretty ******ed.

Bottom line, I am not saying this kid is responsible for teaching the other student and making sure he's up to par as an undergrad. What I said is that he will be expected to do so in the practice of medicine, and a demonstration of teamwork as an undergrad, when it is not necessary, may really impress an admissions committee. I did not say it was required for admissions. Note where I said "In medicine..." and then "Second, I would talk to..."

And let's not get into this "Your practice is going to suck" discussion. The model you choose for your practice may not be a model that everyone follows, and the type of personality you put toward your coworkers may be unacceptable to others.

First, learn what a circular argument is.

The OP's immediate goal is to get into medical school. Getting a low O Chem grade can seriously affect that.

I am not arguing against helping his team mate, I am arguing against all the sanctimonious arguments that by contesting the unfair grading scheme through the appropriate channels, he is "not being a team player".

Basically you are advocating he take it up the rear in the name of teamwork rather than do what is absolutely necessary to get the appropriate outcome.

 

[eric51]

If not, then it is my understanding that he has no legal standing to incorporate those quizzes into your final grade.

There are no laws about how professors in college have to grade. They can do whatever they want. That isn't to say that you can't go to a higher up and get it changed, but they can still do it.

 

[NCDocWannabe]

There are no laws about how professors in college have to grade. They can do whatever they want. That isn't to say that you can't go to a higher up and get it changed, but they can still do it.

Actually, if the prof doesn't include a clause in the syllabus that states he/she has the right to change policies (grading, assignments, etc.) without notice, they really can't do whatever they want. This gives the OP the right to address the issue with a superior.

 

[lstone13]

Actually, if the prof doesn't include a clause in the syllabus that states he/she has the right to change policies (grading, assignments, etc.) without notice, they really can't do whatever they want. This gives the OP the right to address the issue with a superior.

Exactly. The syllabus is, in a sense, a contract for paid services. You pay tuition (the professor) and in return, he offers you the specified services on the syllabus.

 

[BBender716]

Exactly. The syllabus is, in a sense, a contract for paid services. You pay tuition (the professor) and in return, he offers you the specified services on the syllabus.

Actually got my grade changed based on that very technicality. Professor did NOT include that clause and decided during the last week of class to weigh the final 25% more at the end of the class and take it away from earlier tests.

I aced the earlier tests and allocated more finals studying time to other classes knowing I was solid in that class. Well it turns out that the re-weighting was the difference between a letter grade so I talk to the professor and her superiors and we agreed that it punished those who worked hard early and the grade got changed.

 

[Noirukiddingme]

👍

I'm a bit annoyed by the "suck it up" crowd on this thread. The situation, as you've presented it, is one in which despite your best efforts, you will be limited by the efforts and performance of the weakest link in your group.

As others have rightly pointed out, it is true that in life, you will often find yourself working in groups, and will be expected to take ownership over the performance of the group as a whole, regardless of your own performance. But in the context of learning, the expectation that a group of students should be bound by the performance of the group as a whole, regardless of their individual efforts, isn't an effective life lesson. It's lazy teaching, born out of the desire to do less subjective evaluation of students' participation.

So long as OP actually gives a damn about getting into medical school, he or she will work to get good grades. So long as the partner in question recognizes that he can squeak by with little or no effort, he won't. So this arrangement solves nothing. Some around here seem hellbent on pursuing a policy of absolute personal responsibility, under which, instead of "whining", the OP ought to recognize that he/she needs to make sure this guy understands the material. But what of the personal responsibility of the other guy? Why should the OP be bound by this guy's unwillingness to put forth the effort?

If the teacher wants to issue an average grade for each group, then perhaps instead of administering individual quizzes that are then subsequently averaged, he or she should administer a single quiz to each group. The members of each group can agree on their answers and then turn it in.

I agree, OP should "stop whining" and fix the problem, but fixing the problem includes discussing the matter, climbing the chain of command if need be.

+2

Ethically: This teacher's plan basically forces those that are more competent/driven in the class to sacrifice their time and effort for the sake of the group. This sounds nice, but as was mentioned, it says nothing about the responsibility of the person who's doing poorly. Where is his/her accountability or responsibility. In college (specifically college), it is not the responsibility of those that are doing well to force others to do better, especially if you are not sure if they are either willing or capable of doing so (which is unsure in every case to some extent).

For those that are saying to "deal with it," imagine if the stakes were higher and the orgo teacher said this for the exams... Each exam would be taken individually and would be averaged in a group of 4. Think about it for moment and you'll realize how ridiculous this is. Also, the op wasn't posting to whine, but rather to find out if they are justified in feeling this is unfair, which, I hope, we can all agree, they are.

Realistically: As LizzyM said, the best thing you can do is drop the class if you can. That wouldn't have worked in my school because we only had one ochem prof, and I couldn't change my schedule if i wanted to graduate on time. Another good choice, I think, is to go have a discussion with your teacher's boss. Try to seem rational and think it through before you meet with them. Decide what you want ahead of time. Another option, if all else fails is either help your teammate or dont. If these grades are 1% of your overall grade, then forget about it, it's not worth your time. However, if these quizzes are 50% of your grade, then you'll hafta make a judgement call about this person. Good luck.

Also, yes, you'll hafta work in a team as a doctor, but you are not responsible if you're colleague makes the wrong differential. Unless, of course, he/she works under you, which is not the case here for you, but seems strikingly similar to the teachers responsibilities.... hmmmm....🙄

 

[randombetch]

fair or unfair, doesn't matter, life's not fair deal with it, stop whining and help your lab partner

That's what they told the African Americans in the 1800s.

 

[armybound]

Basically you are advocating he take it up the rear in the name of teamwork rather than do what is absolutely necessary to get the appropriate outcome.

The MCAT tested reading comprehension, didn't it?

Second, I would talk to the department chair or dean. Someone else's personal performance shouldn't be allowed to negatively impact your grade.

 

[armybound]

Realistically: As LizzyM said, the best thing you can do is drop the class if you can. That wouldn't have worked in my school because we only had one ochem prof, and I couldn't change my schedule if i wanted to graduate on time. Another good choice, I think, is to go have a discussion with your teacher's boss. Try to seem rational and think it through before you meet with them. Decide what you want ahead of time. Another option, if all else fails is either help your teammate or dont. If these grades are 1% of your overall grade, then forget about it, it's not worth your time. However, if these quizzes are 50% of your grade, then you'll hafta make a judgement call about this person. Good luck.

Also, yes, you'll hafta work in a team as a doctor, but you are not responsible if you're colleague makes the wrong differential. Unless, of course, he/she works under you, which is not the case here for you, but seems strikingly similar to the teachers responsibilities.... hmmmm....🙄

How is withdrawing the BEST option? The kid is doing fine in the class, he shouldn't have to withdraw. The BEST option is for the Dean, department chair, etc to stop what the professor is doing and allow this kid to finish his class with the grade he deserves. I would withdraw as a last resort, not a first option.

 

[Noirukiddingme]

How is withdrawing the BEST option? The kid is doing fine in the class, he shouldn't have to withdraw. The BEST option is for the Dean, department chair, etc to stop what the professor is doing and allow this kid to finish his class with the grade he deserves. I would withdraw as a last resort, not a first option.

Yea, I guess I might've jumped the gun on that. You're probably right. The only problem with talking with the guy in charge is that, at least at my undergrad, usually if you made a complaint, it didn't affect our class, but next years. And, on a similar note, going through bosses usually takes time, and maybe in this case, too much time for it to be reasonably helpful. But yea, I guess, if it were me, my first choice would be to talk to his boss too.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

But as a physican you are the boss, if someone on your team isn't pulling his load then you have a recourse. For those of you who would keep weak and dysfunctional members on your team in spite of their failures, please list your names so I know not to go to your hospital/clinic. I want a doctor who does what is necessary to get a good outcome, not someone who is so infatuated with feely-good people skills that he can't kick a looser teammate in the ass.

Also, yes, you'll hafta work in a team as a doctor, but you are not responsible if you're colleague makes the wrong differential.

In my world in which a sick infant will average dozens of doctors providing some form of care (including every night call resident, attending, consultants, etc), it is fairly challenging for me, as one team member to fire others or quit every time one of these caregivers is less than competent. Actually, that just makes it worse for me as then they may become REFERRING or competing docs.😉. When you are an attending, try firing every resident/fellow that covers at night who doesn't do a good job. Especially the ones not on your service. The attending physician of record in a complex critically ill patient is hardly able to control/fire/hug every (or almost any) doctor (let alone nurse, RT, etc, etc) who cares for their patient whom they don't think is doing a good job or is a good team player. At times, you can control a few aspects of this (by how you do consults, etc), but this is not easy at all to say the least.

I am responsible to a certain degree for what others do wrong. I don't want to belabor this issue, but both legally and practically, I cannot completely divorce my care from the diagnostic and therapeutic mistakes of others. Take a look at any lawsuit against physicians and you'll understand the cross-over of responsibility for mistakes. On a more basic front, if my colleague at night makes a diagnostic or therapeutic mistake, and I am caring for the patient the next day, who has the responsibility for fixing things as best as possible and dealing with the consequences of what went wrong.

Bottom line is that I, like everyone else covers for weaker team members just as they cover for my weaknesses. Like it or not, this is how it works. The sicker the patient and more complex the system, the more this happens. There are a lot of ways to do this type of "covering" that I won't list here. If I refuse to go the extra step in some way in this situation, I lose, and my patients lose.

 

[Noirukiddingme]

Bottom line is that I, like everyone else covers for weaker team members just as they cover for my weaknesses. Like it or not, this is how it works. The sicker the patient and more complex the system, the more this happens. There are a lot of ways to do this type of "covering" that I won't list here. If I refuse to go the extra step in some way in this situation, I lose, and my patients lose.

I see what you're saying, but to me it's not the same situation. If your colleague makes a mistake, you first fix it, then talk to your colleague about what he/she did wrong. In this way, you're fulfilling your responsibilities on the team. I totally agree with these responsibilities. But in this quiz situation, it is more cut and dry. In medicine, you can learn (or help your colleague learn) by their mistakes, but that is not the case with this quiz. The mistakes that are made directly impact the quiz. So the OP will constantly be wondering what the other member of the team will not know. It's as if he's the other team member's attending, or tutor, not his colleague. And, even then, you would expect the "weak" team member to come to someone for advice, and, if not, that they would want the responsibility to get better (none of which are for sure here). I'm not trying to start anything, but I just don't agree with the logic that this method is going to be helpful to the OP with team-building from a very fundamental perspective that the goals (of performance) of each member of the team might be different (which hopefully is not the case with a medical team).

I should also probably mention that I'm all about helping others (of a team), but there are some people that don't want to be helped, or maybe not in the way that you want them to be helped.

I should also also mention after rereading this that I possibly made the mistake of being too vague in the meaning of "responsibility" in my first post. My bad. 😳

 

[armybound]

I think people assumed that I was saying that the OP's situation is somehow the same as will be experienced in medicine. If you took that away from what I said, you were mistaken and I'm sorry it wasn't more clear. The only tie between the OP's situation and medicine is that admissions committees will look for evidence or potential of teamwork.

 

[FluffyRabbit]

That is a pretty ridiculous policy, since it just allows students who care less about their grades to abuse those that care more. If he is really trying, I do think it would be good for the two of you to help him grasp the material, but if he just doesn't care, you should definitely talk to someone.

Don't get too bitter if you have to suck it up. If nothing else, you'll get an excellent story for a secondary essay. 🙂

 

[TooMuchResearch]

You're right, this isn't fair. Were these quizzes mentioned in the syllabus? And were the quiz grades, on the syllabus, factored into your final grade? If not, then it is my understanding that he has no legal standing to incorporate those quizzes into your final grade. If the answer to those questions is both no, then talk to the professor about your problem, and if that doesn't work, go to his superior.

Now, that being said, go ahead and help out your lab partner. If your grade depends on it, make sure he/she gets the material and plan study sessions with your lab partner before lab.

Syllabi certainly aren't legally binding.

I had plenty of classes in which groups had to assign themselves grades based on how their group performed. These grades included points based on teamwork and equal participation. Some professors even allotted the same number of potential points to each group, and the group members had to decide among themselves how to divide the points.

Was it fair? Maybe not. Work with your group and move on.

 

[schrizto]

Don't get too bitter if you have to suck it up. If nothing else, you'll get an excellent story for a secondary essay. 🙂

It'd probably only make a good secondary essay if the OP ends up pulling up his lab partner's grades. Explaining that he overcame an obstacle by dropping out of the class doesn't look good at all.

 

[seelee]

I think people assumed that I was saying that the OP's situation is somehow the same as will be experienced in medicine. If you took that away from what I said, you were mistaken and I'm sorry it wasn't more clear. The only tie between the OP's situation and medicine is that admissions committees will look for evidence or potential of teamwork.

Fair enough. I however, would still encourage the OP to seek out opportunities for team work that don't hold as big a risk for frustrating his chances to get in to med school.

 

[FluffyRabbit]

It'd probably only make a good secondary essay if the OP ends up pulling up his lab partner's grades. Explaining that he overcame an obstacle by dropping out of the class doesn't look good at all.

That was what I meant when I said "sucking it up". Just dropping the class doesn't qualify for that.

 

[lstone13]

Syllabi certainly aren't legally binding.

I had plenty of classes in which groups had to assign themselves grades based on how their group performed. These grades included points based on teamwork and equal participation. Some professors even allotted the same number of potential points to each group, and the group members had to decide among themselves how to divide the points.

Was it fair? Maybe not. Work with your group and move on.

So, I did a little research, and apparently, whether they are considered contracts and therefore legally binding depends upon the school. Some school policy states that the syllabi presented are contracts and some do not. For places that do not state that syllabi are contracts, then the syllabus has no legal standing in court because both parties did not sign the document. However, for places that do declare them as contracts, well, you get the picture.

 

[AGLAIA]

I would think it would be better to try to work it out in the framework which has been set out for you. Not so much "suck it up" but more of a "how can I make this work in my favor?" Think of it this way: teaching another person the concepts will help to gel it for you and you might end up with a better outcome for yourself as a result. Perhaps, if you decide that you want to work with your team member, you can go to your prof, discuss the situation, and get his advice on how to best communicate with your group member. Otherwise, is it possible to get ourself reassigned to another group or are they fix entities. Either way, if you need a recommendation from this prof for your application, I definitely wouldn't be going over his head because you are going to get anything but a good one when the time comes...making a point of letting him know you are going out of your way might make you stand out favorably.

 

[chman]

"Fair is the weather." Sorry, could not resist.

But I agree that you should try to help him/her. If that does not work I would talk to the professor directly. I have had a couple situations that remind me of this, but most of the time the professor would know that one of the students was not up to par without me telling him/her.

Anyways, if that does not work you could find others in the class a make a petition to the department chair (after talking to the professor of course).

 

[Disinence2]

I agree that you will be faced with many "Unfair situations" throughout your education, however for your current level of training I think that this is ridiculous.

Go straight over the persons head. If your "teacher" is just a TA then I think you have a good chance of getting this changed. Talk to your pre-med adviser. It is not your responsibility to teach others O-chem.

Complain, Complain, Complain, and get an A.

Best of luck!

 

[redsquareblack]

I would think it would be better to try to work it out in the framework which has been set out for you. Not so much "suck it up" but more of a "how can I make this work in my favor?" Think of it this way: teaching another person the concepts will help to gel it for you and you might end up with a better outcome for yourself as a result. Perhaps, if you decide that you want to work with your team member, you can go to your prof, discuss the situation, and get his advice on how to best communicate with your group member. Otherwise, is it possible to get ourself reassigned to another group or are they fix entities. Either way, if you need a recommendation from this prof for your application, I definitely wouldn't be going over his head because you are going to get anything but a good one when the time comes...making a point of letting him know you are going out of your way might make you stand out favorably.

Ugh... or you could just talk to the prof/dean/whomever and get the policy changed.

 

[Quadratic]

You're not alone. O chem lab at our school is based on a scale worth 600 points. However 200 points comprise the lab grade, which is standardized to about 70-71% (145/200) Consequently, it doesn't matter if you averaged an A on your lab reports which means that your effort in writing them goes down the toilet. I knew this from day one but also knew I had to do well in the course. So my advice for you is to ace everything else that class has to throw at you. Working to "boost" the lab partner won't make any significant difference.

It isn't fair, but few things are.

 

[orthomyxo]

That's total bull. In my chem lab, each person writes up their own report, and the instructors allow us to request that our assignments be graded independently if we feel that our partner didn't cooperate and compare answers.

 

[musafirah]

i honestly think the guy is doing an educational experiment and f*cking with your heads, to give incentive for students to help each other. but in the end everyone will get the grade they deserve, and you'll get an A. some TAs love to scare people about their grades.. i wouldn't worry. bet you anything i'm right.

 

[Depakote]

I appreciate the efforts others are taking to draw a parallel to the OP's situation and medicine but consider that medicine is a highly selected field where you can generally assume the people you are working with are competent and willing to put in the effort to correct their mistakes. Additionally, is a hierarchy of learning, peers are rarely responsible for eachother's education and shortcomings.

The OP is stuck in a situation where his grade in the course is being pulled down by someone that has not demonstrated any sort of proficiency in the material. The fact that he repeatedly fails lab either means he isn't putting in the effort to learn it or it's beyond his grasp.

Organic Chemistry is frequently considered a weed-out class. Plenty of people drop, fail, or barely scrape by. There really isn't any reason the OP should be saddled with the burden of correcting another person's deficiencies when his only responsibility for the course should be to master the material himself.


OP, you're stuck in a pretty raw situation. I agree that you don't deserve it. If your grade is legitimately threatened, I would go through the hierarchy along with any other student in your class that have this complaint and politely, civilly make your case. Start with the professor and then proceed with the published grievance guidelines/chain of command (these seemed to be in every syllabus I received in college so I bet you have them). Good luck.