Is yield protection actually a thing for high-stat (3.9+/520+) applicants?

[YoungMoneyMint]

I went to an info session for Virginia Tech earlier, and I loved the school and am heavily considering applying. However, I'm at a 3.9/521 (3.95 sGPA), so I'm worried they'll yield-protect me to save interview spots.

Is this something I should be worried about? If so, should I reach out to them to convey my genuine interest in attending.

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[DukeSmith]

It’s overblown on these forums

 

[chilly_md]

Post this on the WAMC forums and follow the template guide given there if you’d like suggestions for a school list. You likely should apply to the UC schools and various research powerhouses amongst some others.

Virginia Tech is a small school and you would likely be yield protected given your stats there. That time and money would be better spent elsewhere as there are plenty of schools still to apply to.

 

[Faha]

It would not occur for most state public schools that residents apply to. It does occur at other lower tier MD schools. The reason is that a school knows from years of experience that interviewing applicants with a GPA of 3.8 or higher AND a MCAT of 520 or higher is "low yield". They interview the applicant, offer an acceptance and the applicant usually accepts an alternative offer at Harvard, Stanford, U Penn, etc.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

@Faha Is there anything that I can do to limit my chances of being considered “low-yield”? I don’t think I’ll be highly competitive for those T10 schools, so I’ve been reaching out to admissions offices to convey interest at some of the mid/lower-tier schools, but I have yet to be able to meet 1:1 with an admissions rep.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

@Goro @gyngyn

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

@KnightDoc I know you also have some experience with this as a high-stat applicant, so I’d love to hear your opinion.

 

[carbonylcarbon]

there's always the option of retaking for a lower score

 

[nontrad_premed]

there's always the option of retaking for a lower score

Don't ever do this lol

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

@nontrad_premed damn, why’d you have to come in just after I re-registered?

 

[Goro]

I went to an info session for Virginia Tech earlier, and I loved the school and am heavily considering applying. However, I'm at a 3.9/521 (3.95 sGPA), so I'm worried they'll yield-protect me to save interview spots.

Is this something I should be worried about? If so, should I reach out to them to convey my genuine interest in attending.

What's more important is: are you a VA resident? Come from the surrounding areas?

And it's not yield protection, it's resource protection. Schools know from historical data who is more and less likely to attend.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

@Goro No, I’m a CA resident. However, I come from an underprivileged, first-gen background (despite being White) so mentorship in medicine is hugely important to me, and Im a big fan of VTC’s emphasis on it (as well as their smaller class sizes).

 

[Goro]

@Goro No, I’m a CA resident. However, I come from an underprivileged, first-gen background (despite being White) so mentorship in medicine is hugely important to me, and Im a big fan of VTC’s emphasis on it (as well as their smaller class sizes).

I suspect that because you're not from the region, that it's an uphill battle.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

I suspect that because you're not from the region, that it's an uphill battle.

Ah, understood. I’m just slightly worried that a vast majority of my schools (which all emphasize a mixture of research and service) are in the T45. I’m under no illusion about how competitive this process is nowadays.

 

[Dral]

You should be competitive for those types of schools as long as your ducks are all in a row. Granted it is a bit more competitive now, but back in my day with similar stats as you (and without a minute of shadowing on my app I may add!) I got interviews at the likes of Michigan, Cornell, and UPenn.

If you really want to go to Virginia tech, contacting them and applying is about all you can do. The people who receive your correspondence very well could go with the "Yah, I've heard this one before..." approach, but it's worth a shot.

VAtech is one of those unique schools that does things a bit differently, so when you correspond with them, you should really highlight that you are fully aware of their model and how it is especially attractive to you.

 

[Faha]

@Faha Is there anything that I can do to limit my chances of being considered “low-yield”? I don’t think I’ll be highly competitive for those T10 schools, so I’ve been reaching out to admissions offices to convey interest at some of the mid/lower-tier schools, but I have yet to be able to meet 1:1 with an admission

What are your ECs ?

 

[LizzyM]

It would be great if you could get some in person interaction with someone from the admissions office and/or the DEI office to express your very specific interest in the school and ask for tips on making as strong an application as possible.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

What are your ECs ?

I’m just pasting from my WAMC: FWIW I’m a CC transfer to a low-tier UC. I self-identify as underprivileged and am first-gen.

EC's:
Research:
2 SURF programs (one of which was online last year) (900 hours)

2 first-author abstracts accepted to be poster presentations (1 at SACNAS and one at a national Immunology conference)

1 co-first author manuscript on best practices in mentoring undergraduates submitted

2 years of data-analysis research (300 hours)

1 semester of bench research (150 hours)

Clinical Experience:
Medical Assistant at a (small) Neurology clinic (650 hours)

Hospital Volunteer (150 hours)

Shadowed Neurologist + Allergist for 50 hours

Volunteering:
Working for the National Health Corps/AmeriCorps as a vaccine ambassador/clothing drive coordinator at a free clinic (1700 hours by November)

Worked for a charity geared towards raising money for refugees (100 hours)

Food Bank Volunteer (150 hours)


Leadership/Work Experience:
Mentor for Underprivileged High School students (500 hours over 1 summer)

Co-creator of website dedicated to raising awareness for BLM protests (100 hours)

Co-creator of interactive maps dedicated to raising awareness about fracking waste in drinking water nationwide (120 hours)

Wrote a proposal to increase COVID-19 vaccination in underserved parts of the Central Valley (120 hours)

Miscellaneous/Hobbies/Awards:
Outstanding Graduating Undergraduate Award (awarded to 3 students per year graduating from my UC)

Captain of intramural soccer team (2 semesters

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

It would be great if you could get some in person interaction with someone from the admissions office and/or the DEI office to express your very specific interest in the school and ask for tips on making as strong an application as possible.

Yup, that’s my plan! I’ve reached out to Rush and Temple so far but there’s been radio silence. Virginia Tech declined a 1:1 Zoom meeting, but they’re responsive to emails. I have a 1:1 with Mayo coming up, but I know they get demonstrated interest from lots of people.

Do you have any suggestions about how to reach out in a more effective way than just cold-emailing?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

@Goro No, I’m a CA resident. However, I come from an underprivileged, first-gen background (despite being White) so mentorship in medicine is hugely important to me, and Im a big fan of VTC’s emphasis on it (as well as their smaller class sizes).

Can I ask who your mentors and champions are in this process?

 

[gyngyn]

@gyngyn

Let's look at the data.
Data against success: Last year VTC had 5,531 OOS applicants. They matriculated 37 of them. Your MCAT and gpa are above the 90th percentile for this school. With a class size of 49, it is feasible that only one or two people in the class has stats like yours.

Data for success: they apparently did admit somebody from CA.

My conclusion is that unless they have some compelling reason to believe that you would attend their school over a "better," cheaper, well-established school, they will not interview you.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Yup, that’s my plan! I’ve reached out to Rush and Temple so far but there’s been radio silence. Virginia Tech declined a 1:1 Zoom meeting, but they’re responsive to emails. I have a 1:1 with Mayo coming up, but I know they get demonstrated interest from lots of people.

Do you have any suggestions about how to reach out in a more effective way than just cold-emailing?

How about students here on SDN? Officers of AMSA and SNMA or a any affinity organizations that you can identify with at the schools you are interested in?

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

Can I ask who your mentors and champions are in this process?

I don’t have many mentors, I’ve mostly been figuring the whole process out on my own. However, I’ve reached out to a lot of the residents/students at the schools I want to go to, and I’ve managed to get a med student and a resident at different T10s to agree to mentor me from this point onwards, and help me with packaging my application.

I have professors that I’m very close to but they aren’t familiar with the med school process. My pre-med advisors also aren’t a huge help, unfortunately.

 

[LizzyM]

Is the school present at any info sessions or meetings (AMSA, etc) you might attend? While fairs have been cancelled these past few years, they may be coming back.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

How about students here on SDN? Officers of AMSA and SNMA or a any affinity organizations that you can identify with at the schools you are interested

That’s a great idea! I haven’t reached out to those student groups yet, but I’ll definitely look into it (at least to gauge fit.)

Do you have any suggestions about how to find students on SDN that go to the schools I’m interested in?

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

Is the school present at any info sessions or meetings (AMSA, etc) you might attend? While fairs have been cancelled these past few years, they may be coming back.

Yes, I actually connected with the VTech admissions rep yesterday at an info session! I made sure to ask multiple in-depth questions about the school and kept my camera on. I also followed up with an email, which is how I know they don’t do 1:1 meetings.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Yes, register for the April AAMC Virtual Recruitment Fair.

Seek the school-specific threads. Post in the Med Student forums. See who has responded for certain schools in the Match Day threads. Just suggesting.

PS. Did you get signed up for the Application Booster 2022 course I'm running for HPSA/SDN?

 

[Faha]

I suggest applying to these schools with your stats and ECs:
Boston University
Harvard
Yale
Dartmouth
Brown
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
NYU
Columbia
Cornell
Rochester
Pittsburgh
Jefferson
U Virginia
Duke
Vanderbilt
USF Morsani
Miami
Washington University (almost a guaranteed interview with your stats)
Northwestern
U Chicago
U Michigan
Case Western
Ohio State
Cincinnati
Mayo (both schools)
The UCs
USC Keck
Kaiser
Stanford

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

Yes, register for the April AAMC Virtual Recruitment Fair.

Seek the school-specific threads. Post in the Med Student forums. See who has responded for certain schools in the Match Day threads. Just suggesting.

PS. Did you get signed up for the Application Booster 2022 course I'm running for HPSA/SDN?

Already registered for the Recruitment Fair!

And no, I haven't signed up for the Application Booster course. Will look into it now!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Already registered for the Recruitment Fair!

And no, I haven't signed up for the Application Booster course. Will look into it now!

Talk to me in a conversation. We'll have to check with @WildWing .

 

[Dral]

I suggest applying to these schools with your stats and ECs:
Boston University
Harvard
Yale
Dartmouth
Brown
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
NYU
Columbia
Cornell
Rochester
Pittsburgh
Jefferson
U Virginia
Duke
Vanderbilt
USF Morsani
Miami
Washington University (almost a guaranteed interview with your stats)
Northwestern
U Chicago
U Michigan
Case Western
Ohio State
Cincinnati
Mayo (both schools)
The UCs
USC Keck
Kaiser
Stanford

This. I only applied to 15 schools when I applied with similar stats to yours. All the ones I applied to on that list gave me interviews though (Cornell, UVA, Wash U, U Michigan). I'm east coast, but I also got interviews from Upenn, GW, and Maryland.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

This. I only applied to 15 schools when I applied with similar stats to yours. All the ones I applied to on that list gave me interviews (Cornell, UVA, Wash U, U Michigan).

Oh, that's awesome! I'm mainly worried about most of the 'elite' schools looking down on my Community College + outside of T50 undergrad background, so I want to hedge my bets. Mind me asking what state you're a resident of?

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

Talk to me in a conversation. We'll have to check with @WildWing .

Sent you a message!

 

[gyngyn]

Post in the Med Student forums.

Pre-meds are generally restricted from the medical student fora...

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Pre-meds are generally restricted from the medical student fora...

Ah, ok.

 

[Dral]

Oh, that's awesome! I'm mainly worried about most of the 'elite' schools looking down on my Community College + outside of T50 undergrad background, so I want to hedge my bets. Mind me asking what state you're a resident of?

I didn't really have a state of residence. I had been in grad school for a few years after undergrad that was in a different state from which I grew up. So since I was living in that newer state for several years only for educational purposes I sorta didn't have a state of residence.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm mainly worried about most of the 'elite' schools looking down on my Community College + outside of T50 undergrad background, so I want to hedge my bets.

You hedge your bets with schools that are a match for your stats (see @Faha's list).

 

[chilly_md]

You are a good fit for top schools, they will not look down on you for being from a CC. To diversify your list, add schools outside the T20 that are known to take higher stat students such as the previously mentioned Ohio State, Cincinnati, Hofstra, and Jefferson.

 

[KnightDoc]

@KnightDoc I know you also have some experience with this as a high-stat applicant, so I’d love to hear your opinion.

The advice you have received from everyone else is very spot on. My Achilles heel was my bleh ECs, so I actually received IIs at all tiers of school. That said, I also received pre-II rejections at all tiers of school. So, I have no way to know whether my Rs at the lower tier schools were resource protection, which is really a thing, or whether they just didn't like me, since I also received IIs and Rs at mid and upper tier schools.

As @gyngyn has suggested, a high stat CA applicant getting a lower tier OOS school to believe the interest is sincere is going to be an uphill battle, but not impossible. All you can do is reach out, while not becoming a PITA, and hope for the best. The AAMC virtual fair is definitely a great place to start.

My personal experience is that the schools are far better at sizing us up than we are, and you have no way to know how your application is going to be perceived before you actually apply. So, my advice is the same as others -- apply widely.

You are very highly likely to have success, even though nothing is guaranteed. It's also far too early to be worried about anything. If your application is not competitive for top schools, mid and lower tier schools are likely to see that and try to grab you. Otherwise, you'll likely do well at the top schools. You won't know this before you apply, but you are positioned to do well, somewhere.

The great news is that you don't have a T10 or bust mentality, so I think you are poised for great success. Good luck!!

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

The advice you have received from everyone else is very spot on. My Achilles heel was my bleh ECs, so I actually received IIs at all tiers of school. That said, I also received pre-II rejections at all tiers of school. So, I have no way to know whether my Rs at the lower tier schools were resource protection, which is really a thing, or whether they just didn't like me, since I also received IIs and Rs at mid and upper tier schools.

As @gyngyn has suggested, a high stat CA applicant getting a lower tier OOS school to believe the interest is sincere is going to be an uphill battle, but not impossible. All you can do is reach out, while not becoming a PITA, and hope for the best. The AAMC virtual fair is definitely a great place to start.

My personal experience is that the schools are far better at sizing us up than we are, and you have no way to know how your application is going to be perceived before you actually apply. So, my advice is the same as others -- apply widely.

You are very highly likely to have success, even though nothing is guaranteed. It's also very far too early to be worried about anything. If your application is not competitive for top schools, mid and lower tier schools are likely to see that and try to grab you. Otherwise, you'll likely do well at the top schools. You won't know this before you apply, but you are very positioned to do well, somewhere.

The great news is that you don't have a T10 or bust mentality, so I think you are poised for great success. Good luck!!

Thank you (and everybody else!) for the sage advice! I know exactly what I want to do (work as a specialist in an underserved, rural community while still doing population health research), so I know going to a T10 isn't a must for my future goals. I personally don't see myself being competitive at Harvard, Yale, Duke or Stanford (I don't think I really have an X factor imo, unless you count AmeriCorps as one), but I think my sweet spot will probably be T11-25.

Do you think Faha's list is broad enough? Or do you have suggestions for some of the mid/low-tier schools that you got some love at?

 

[KnightDoc]

Thank you (and everybody else!) for the sage advice! I know exactly what I want to do (work as a specialist in an underserved, rural community while still doing population health research), so I know going to a T10 isn't a must for my future goals. I personally don't see myself being competitive at Harvard, Yale, Duke or Stanford (I don't think I really have an X factor imo, unless you count AmeriCorps as one), but I think my sweet spot will probably be T11-25.

Do you think Faha's list is broad enough? Or do you have suggestions for some of the mid/low-tier schools that you got some love at?

@Faha's lists are the gold standard, and, in your case, he covered just about everything. If you follow it to a tee, you'll be applying to around 40 schools. Don't sell yourself short -- you really have no idea where you might gain some traction.

I was reluctant to apply to any so-called "low yield" schools, but decided to take a few shots anyway, since I liked the schools or the locations, and didn't want to play "what if" later just to save a few bucks. Most of those applications went nowhere, and I was pissed at myself for not realizing the obvious and saving the time and money. But then I actually received an II that I wasn't expecting, and I was proud of myself for not following common wisdom and taking the shots!

My suggestion is to keep doing what you are doing. Research the schools. Look for mission fits. And then reach out and get the adcoms comfortable with the notion that your interest is sincere. And also apply to the target schools for your stats. In other words, apply widely. My interests are different from yours, and I'm not from CA, so my schools are necessarily going to be different from yours.

 

[JAK2-STAT3]

I know exactly what I want to do (work as a specialist in an underserved, rural community while still doing population health research), so I know going to a T10 isn't a must for my future goals.

I have nothing useful to add to this thread, but the above is EXACTLY what I want to do as well. My stats are slightly lower than yours, but it is a struggle when many of the research powerhouses don't seem to focus on rural medicine as much. I feel like I fit everyone's mission a little bit, but nobody's perfectly. I wish you the best of luck this cycle!

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

I have nothing useful to add to this thread, but the above is EXACTLY what I want to do as well. My stats are slightly lower than yours, but it is a struggle when many of the research powerhouses don't seem to focus on rural medicine as much. I feel like I fit everyone's mission a little bit, but nobody's perfectly. I wish you the best of luck this cycle!

This is exactly why I think the T5/T10 is a little bit out of reach! They have such a heavy emphasis on research that I don't know they'll react to applicants that don't want to go into academic medicine. But I'm hoping schools like Mayo, Chicago etc. will look a little bit more favorably on us. Wishing you lots of luck this cycle too!

 

[Gunner007]

I had 522/4.0, applied to 40 schools across the spectrum of school ranks from 1-80, received interviews only from jhu, washu, mayo, and 1 mid tier. I was a bit surprised at the interviews i got but the lack of overall invites so idk what to make of that, but best of luck
-current ms3

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

I had 522/4.0, applied to 40 schools across the spectrum of school ranks from 1-80, received interviews only from jhu, washu, mayo, and 1 mid tier. I was a bit surprised at the interviews i got but the lack of overall invites so idk what to make of that, but best of luck
-current ms3

Ouch, all those schools have pretty low post-II acceptance rates. If you don't mind me asking, did you end up at one of the first 3?

 

[DZ2106]

I got 12 II w/ a 3.85+/521 (strong ECs) and fully 7 of those schools had a median MCAT below 515.

I am a reapplicant, but it seems to me that yield protection is way overblown. HOWEVER, you need to emphasize fit, which I feel you have to be first-gen and underprivileged

 

[proudofmykids]

You’ve received very sage advice so far. However, nobody has mentioned that, and IMHO, you have an incredibly strong application! Also, IMHO you will likely receive multiple offers of large merit aid with acceptance to free tuition or full ride schools, several of which have smaller classes (<100), and very respectful of rural medicine desires.

My advice is to never focus on one school to be first choice (or range of schools like T10] going into the whole app cycle process. There many unknowns and decisions that will come much later at the end of the process. Just look at the X or Y sub forum! Don’t underestimate the financial part of your final decision that will come at the end.

Best of luck.

 

[mudfud26]

Thank you (and everybody else!) for the sage advice! I know exactly what I want to do (work as a specialist in an underserved, rural community while still doing population health research), so I know going to a T10 isn't a must for my future goals. I personally don't see myself being competitive at Harvard, Yale, Duke or Stanford (I don't think I really have an X factor imo, unless you count AmeriCorps as one), but I think my sweet spot will probably be T11-25.

Do you think Faha's list is broad enough? Or do you have suggestions for some of the mid/low-tier schools that you got some love at?

I would suggest looking into EVMS and WVU as well then. Both have an emphasis on rural med and primary care. However, I think you can get some bites if you emphasize in you personal statement and with your ECs that you want to do rural med and primary care. Don’t just talk the talk, but volunteer and shadow in these spaces. Get mentors in these areas so that you can demonstrate that you have a clear vision of your future and you actually want it. The last paragraph of your personal statement should focus on your career goals and where you see yourself going - 10-15 year plan. This question also comes up on secondaries. A well-formed answer (especially when you can reference shadowing and mentors) is key to getting the II.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

You’ve received very sage advice so far. However, nobody has mentioned that, and IMHO, you have an incredibly strong application! Also, IMHO you will likely receive multiple offers of large merit aid with acceptance to free tuition or full ride schools, several of which have smaller classes (<100), and very respectful of rural medicine desires.

My advice is to never focus on one school to be first choice (or range of schools like T10] going into the whole app cycle process. There many unknowns and decisions that will come much later at the end of the process. Just look at the X or Y sub forum! Don’t underestimate the financial part of your final decision that will come at the end.

Best of luck.

Thank you so much for the kind words! One of the biggest reasons i want to go to a T20 in the first place is because they offer so much need-based aid! Do you have any suggestions of schools that are a little bit lower-ranked that offer a significant amount of merit aid?

 

[chilly_md]

Thank you so much for the kind words! One of the biggest reasons i want to go to a T20 in the first place is because they offer so much need-based aid! Do you have any suggestions of schools that are a little bit lower-ranked that offer a significant amount of merit aid?

Hofstra, Western Michigan, Iowa (maybe), Einstein, Miami, Jefferson and Temple. Ohio State/Cincinnati have the benefit of being able to qualify for IS tuition after the first year. Kaiser of course and some UC schools may offer merit aid too. No guarantees though.