Is your dental school also this bad?

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yorta said:
I'm currently a D2. I had very high hopes for dental school before coming to one. After all, the application required so much from you. My GPA was 4.0, and my DAT was 24. It took me two rounds to get in. I imagined most of my classmates must be so smart, work so hard, be so kind to each other, love science, love people, be passionate about learning, etc. Boy, was I wrong.


What I have experienced so far is that very few people are interested in science at all. Most complain about being asked to learn too much. The majority struggle with very simple science concepts (how did they get in???). There is a lot of cheating on exams and daily shenanigans toward each other.


The faculty is absolutely the worst I've ever had since middle school. The best third of the science professors are barely at the same level as the TAs in my undergraduate program. Most of them don't do any research. Some of them are asked to teach things they are very unfamiliar with and make a lot of mistakes, both in teaching and on exam questions. Students are generally very lazy, with the majority trying to do the bare minimum to pass. Administrative staff are petty, vengeful, and stuck on bureaucracy. Half of the clinical faculty are mildly incompetent. A few of them are very disorganized, unreasonable, and have a very low capability to understand things.


I used to think, well, we are a relatively new school, so perhaps it is understandable to have an education quality like this. However, just recently I learned that our first graduating class has a pass rate of 98% on the INBDE and a 98% passing rate on the ADEX too. This offers a bit of comfort to me that we are not a bottom-tier school, but on the other hand, it also means that, in general, dental schools, dental students, and dentists as a whole are of very low quality. Otherwise, how can students like ours score so well compared to other dental schools?


So, is this normal? Is your dental school also this bad? I’m starting to feel the whole field of dentistry is kind of a fraud. There isn’t much needed to learn to become a good dentist. Compared to medical school, we are already only learning the bare minimum, and most of the biomedical knowledge we are asked to learn will not be useful in most cases.


I feel the difficulty of getting into dental school was totally wasted and is a deliberately created shortage of dentists in order to jack up dentists’ earnings. I’m glad to benefit from this distortion of supply and demand, but it is so discouraging to know my profession is filled with such people and so lacking in substance.
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This is a terrible take on dental school/dentistry. There will always be dental students who do the bare minimum. Stop comparing and just put in the effort you want to.

Most of your classmates complain and don’t want to learn? Welcome to professional education. I’m a resident and the medicine residents I work with are the exact same, complain anytime they have to do anything and just want to leave everyday as soon as they get to the hospital. There are always going to be students who are lazy and not motivated. It shouldn’t matter to you, because your work ethic and motivation is up to you.

As for faculty, most of them haven’t been in a didactic teaching position in a long time, so they are rusty on basic sciences. Use textbooks and reliable resources if you think something was taught incorrectly.

Don’t compare dental school to medical school. We have overlap but we also learn different things for different reasons. You can learn as much medicine as you want in dental school, and you can do a residency like omfs or DA after to learn even more. But that doesn’t make dentists frauds. You seem to have a very negative outlook on things, you’re going to need to become more optimistic if you want to survive a 25-30+ year career in this field.
 
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yorta said:
I'm currently a D2. I had very high hopes for dental school before coming to one. After all, the application required so much from you. My GPA was 4.0, and my DAT was 24. It took me two rounds to get in. I imagined most of my classmates must be so smart, work so hard, be so kind to each other, love science, love people, be passionate about learning, etc. Boy, was I wrong.


What I have experienced so far is that very few people are interested in science at all. Most complain about being asked to learn too much. The majority struggle with very simple science concepts (how did they get in???). There is a lot of cheating on exams and daily shenanigans toward each other.


The faculty is absolutely the worst I've ever had since middle school. The best third of the science professors are barely at the same level as the TAs in my undergraduate program. Most of them don't do any research. Some of them are asked to teach things they are very unfamiliar with and make a lot of mistakes, both in teaching and on exam questions. Students are generally very lazy, with the majority trying to do the bare minimum to pass. Administrative staff are petty, vengeful, and stuck on bureaucracy. Half of the clinical faculty are mildly incompetent. A few of them are very disorganized, unreasonable, and have a very low capability to understand things.


I used to think, well, we are a relatively new school, so perhaps it is understandable to have an education quality like this. However, just recently I learned that our first graduating class has a pass rate of 98% on the INBDE and a 98% passing rate on the ADEX too. This offers a bit of comfort to me that we are not a bottom-tier school, but on the other hand, it also means that, in general, dental schools, dental students, and dentists as a whole are of very low quality. Otherwise, how can students like ours score so well compared to other dental schools?


So, is this normal? Is your dental school also this bad? I’m starting to feel the whole field of dentistry is kind of a fraud. There isn’t much needed to learn to become a good dentist. Compared to medical school, we are already only learning the bare minimum, and most of the biomedical knowledge we are asked to learn will not be useful in most cases.


I feel the difficulty of getting into dental school was totally wasted and is a deliberately created shortage of dentists in order to jack up dentists’ earnings. I’m glad to benefit from this distortion of supply and demand, but it is so discouraging to know my profession is filled with such people and so lacking in substance.
Click to expand...
You are experiencing what dental school is actually like man. Dentistry is weird. Everyone argues about different clinical techniques that don’t really matter. Often times dentists talk poorly about each other (especially towards Oral surgeons or people that want to be one). The INBDE is a complete joke of an exam. The administrative is toxic, every time lol. I went in to dental school with optimism just like you, but it’s not what you think it Is. There ARE serious dental students. They’re the ones that want to do OMS, Dental anesthesia, ortho, Endo, or will be the savvy GP practice owners etc. Stick with those people. Be around good ethical people that want to make you grow. IGNORE the foolish classmates that are destined for a career in corporate. IGNORE the 99% of dental professors that are terrible dentists. IGNORE the administrative staff that could never make it in real world dentistry. I won’t lie to you, dentistry has a lot of negatives that make people extremely jaded. However, in my young career, I have enjoyed doing my work for patients and getting better. This is my short answer to a long winded answer. Feel free ask more
 
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yorta said:
So, is this normal? Is your dental school also this bad? I’m starting to feel the whole field of dentistry is kind of a fraud. There isn’t much needed to learn to become a good dentist. Compared to medical school, we are already only learning the bare minimum, and most of the biomedical knowledge we are asked to learn will not be useful in most cases.
Click to expand...
I agree with you that professional education is not as polished and organized as undergraduate education. Unfortunately it’s less about the school and more about you doing your own learning at this point. However, the tests that you mentioned are meant to measure minimum competency and are not meant to be a ceiling for what you need to know, or limit what is taught in dental school. Personally I found it challenging to stay on top of all the reading in dental school compared to undergraduate courses because there was so much more information.

The only thing I take issue with is the part about there not being much to learn to be a good dentist. It is extremely difficult to be a “good dentist”. Not 1 exists in your entire student body. Even after you graduate, and continue to educate yourself through residency and CE, it will probably take you 5-10 years after graduation to become good.
 
Anecdotal Comment:
I have been with a dental residential program for 18 years. I have noticed that the "Science IQ" of my residents has dropped significantly during that time. That drop was even more noticeable following COVID.
(Just one old dentist's comment.)
 
Ivy.ch said:
Yes, that’s dental school!

Just get through it. Don’t do anything stupid so you don’t get kicked out. It’s 4 years of misery, but it does eventually end, and you come out the other side.

Maybe consider specializing.
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Thank you sir. I'll take your advice to heart.
 
Saddleshoes said:
Anecdotal Comment:
I have been with a dental residential program for 18 years. I have noticed that the "Science IQ" of my residents has dropped significantly during that time. That drop was even more noticeable following COVID.
(Just one old dentist's comment.)
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply. May I ask what specialty your residential program is?
 
yappy said:
I agree with you that professional education is not as polished and organized as undergraduate education. Unfortunately it’s less about the school and more about you doing your own learning at this point. However, the tests that you mentioned are meant to measure minimum competency and are not meant to be a ceiling for what you need to know, or limit what is taught in dental school. Personally I found it challenging to stay on top of all the reading in dental school compared to undergraduate courses because there was so much more information.

The only thing I take issue with is the part about there not being much to learn to be a good dentist. It is extremely difficult to be a “good dentist”. Not 1 exists in your entire student body. Even after you graduate, and continue to educate yourself through residency and CE, it will probably take you 5-10 years after graduation to become good.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your response. I agree that prioritizing my own learning is essential. However, it’s frustrating when faculty and administrative staff seem to hinder the process rather than support it. I brought up the exam scores because several other schools in our region performed significantly worse than ours, which was shocking to me. It made me question whether this is a broader issue in the dental field rather than just specific challenges at our school.

I fully understand and agree that it takes time to become a skilled dentist. However, realizing the lack of substance in dental school education—especially compared to the difficulty of gaining admission—makes me feel that the admissions process is more of a facade for the public and an artificial barrier designed to limit the supply of new dentists.
 
D1Bound said:
You are experiencing what dental school is actually like man. Dentistry is weird. Everyone argues about different clinical techniques that don’t really matter. Often times dentists talk poorly about each other (especially towards Oral surgeons or people that want to be one). The INBDE is a complete joke of an exam. The administrative is toxic, every time lol. I went in to dental school with optimism just like you, but it’s not what you think it Is. There ARE serious dental students. They’re the ones that want to do OMS, Dental anesthesia, ortho, Endo, or will be the savvy GP practice owners etc. Stick with those people. Be around good ethical people that want to make you grow. IGNORE the foolish classmates that are destined for a career in corporate. IGNORE the 99% of dental professors that are terrible dentists. IGNORE the administrative staff that could never make it in real world dentistry. I won’t lie to you, dentistry has a lot of negatives that make people extremely jaded. However, in my young career, I have enjoyed doing my work for patients and getting better. This is my short answer to a long winded answer. Feel free ask more
Click to expand...
I really appreciate your reply—this is exactly the information I was hoping to learn. Your advice is spot on, and I’ll be sure to keep it in mind. Could you elaborate on why you think the INBDE is a complete joke of an exam? Is it because it’s too easy or too broad? I haven’t looked at any practice questions yet, so I’m completely in the dark.
 
yorta said:
I really appreciate your reply—this is exactly the information I was hoping to learn. Your advice is spot on, and I’ll be sure to keep it in mind. Could you elaborate on why you think the INBDE is a complete joke of an exam? Is it because it’s too easy or too broad? I haven’t looked at any practice questions yet, so I’m completely in the dark.
Click to expand...
I’ve talked to several people from other schools. It’s all the same lol. I thought my school was the only bad one at first. The INBDE’s level of medical knowledge is literally like asking the mechanism of action of albuterol. You then identify caries on an X-ray and have an RPD design question. Qs are as simple as that. There may be some cool oral path stuff, but, for a licensure exam to qualify us as a Doctor it is stupid easy. Do dentists need to know in depth medicine? Not really. The rest of the exam material is just a joke though. I took the NBME and will be going to residency training so my perspective is skewed. This requirement really makes OMS and dental anesthesia stand out. The USMLE is a test to me that truly qualifies as a “Board exam.” Not one that asks about zirconia vs emax or if the ethology of tooth pain was a previous restoration left high in occlusion lol I’ll bet you $1000 you could pass the INBDE 30 days from now, maybe even tomorrow.
 
yorta said:
Thank you for your response. I agree that prioritizing my own learning is essential. However, it’s frustrating when faculty and administrative staff seem to hinder the process rather than support it. I brought up the exam scores because several other schools in our region performed significantly worse than ours, which was shocking to me. It made me question whether this is a broader issue in the dental field rather than just specific challenges at our school.

I fully understand and agree that it takes time to become a skilled dentist. However, realizing the lack of substance in dental school education—especially compared to the difficulty of gaining admission—makes me feel that the admissions process is more of a facade for the public and an artificial barrier designed to limit the supply of new dentists.
Click to expand...
Dental education may be in a slump. I don’t know because Ive since graduated and went to a school with combined curriculum. But the actual job is very challenging and the public will place a lot of trust in you. I don’t think lowering admission standards would help anyone.
 
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yorta said:
Lucky you! I want to be in your school! May I ask which school you are in?
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P/F school in the northeast with integrated medical curriculum for the first ~2 years. Small class size and most students here work hard to distinguish themselves for residency.
 
Just focus on yourself. You are the only person who's in control of what you do. Worry less about your other classmates, find the people who are like-minded like yourself, and things will get better.

What other classmates do isn't your business, and honestly, some of the stuff we learn is irrelevant anyway. The amount of CE I take outside of what I learn in class goes miles for me and helps me stay ahead both clinically and academically. Dental school teaches the bare minimum, INDBE is there for minimum competency, if you want to be better, spend some time reading, watching, and learning about different techniques. It's not a one-size-fits-all in dentistry and there's a lot of different ways you can go about doing something.

Keep your head down and just get through it. Sorry you're having so many issues with your school.
 
yorta said:
I'm currently a D2. I had very high hopes for dental school before coming to one. After all, the application required so much from you. My GPA was 4.0, and my DAT was 24. It took me two rounds to get in. I imagined most of my classmates must be so smart, work so hard, be so kind to each other, love science, love people, be passionate about learning, etc. Boy, was I wrong.


What I have experienced so far is that very few people are interested in science at all. Most complain about being asked to learn too much. The majority struggle with very simple science concepts (how did they get in???). There is a lot of cheating on exams and daily shenanigans toward each other.


The faculty is absolutely the worst I've ever had since middle school. The best third of the science professors are barely at the same level as the TAs in my undergraduate program. Most of them don't do any research. Some of them are asked to teach things they are very unfamiliar with and make a lot of mistakes, both in teaching and on exam questions. Students are generally very lazy, with the majority trying to do the bare minimum to pass. Administrative staff are petty, vengeful, and stuck on bureaucracy. Half of the clinical faculty are mildly incompetent. A few of them are very disorganized, unreasonable, and have a very low capability to understand things.


I used to think, well, we are a relatively new school, so perhaps it is understandable to have an education quality like this. However, just recently I learned that our first graduating class has a pass rate of 98% on the INBDE and a 98% passing rate on the ADEX too. This offers a bit of comfort to me that we are not a bottom-tier school, but on the other hand, it also means that, in general, dental schools, dental students, and dentists as a whole are of very low quality. Otherwise, how can students like ours score so well compared to other dental schools?


So, is this normal? Is your dental school also this bad? I’m starting to feel the whole field of dentistry is kind of a fraud. There isn’t much needed to learn to become a good dentist. Compared to medical school, we are already only learning the bare minimum, and most of the biomedical knowledge we are asked to learn will not be useful in most cases.


I feel the difficulty of getting into dental school was totally wasted and is a deliberately created shortage of dentists in order to jack up dentists’ earnings. I’m glad to benefit from this distortion of supply and demand, but it is so discouraging to know my profession is filled with such people and so lacking in substance.
Click to expand...
Just like others have said focus on yourself. If you believe that others aren’t trying as hard or just doing the bare minimum then it’s in your best interest to stand out.

Just don’t underestimate your classmates. You had a great GPA and DAT, meaning your classmates had the same, so they are capable of high level academic performance.

I remember seeing some of my classmates all relaxed and posting social media of them partying or on vacations while I’m going gray over tests and requirements and wondering when are they studying? And oddly enough theses same people actually matched into tough specialties. I’m not saying matching is an indicator of success, it just showed that we don’t really know how hard our classmates are really working behind the scenes.

Focus on yourself to try to get the most out of dental school. Learn as much as you can and try to be the best doctor you can be
 
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