Issues Facing Dentistry Today

[bluesprite13]

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Does anyone know of any good likes to learn more about issues facing dentistry today or just dental news in general besides ADA, ADEA, and ASDA?

 

[GTFOOMICT]

Does anyone know of any good likes to learn more about issues facing dentistry today or just dental news in general besides ADA, ADEA, and ASDA?

They are all secondary to the debtor slave situation being created in our dental schools. I'm assuming you ask because you'll be interviewing for dental school soon.

Go as affordable as possible.

 

[yappy]

I read an article that stated that the caries rate among children today are reaching a very high rate due to inadequate home care and frequency of sugary foods/acidic drinks.

After you bring this up in an interview I suggest you say to your interviewer "Now that's what I call job security! Am I right?😎"

 

[bluesprite13]

Thanks guys. I just want to be more informed 🙂

 

[Parklife]

Honestly?

Two words.

Red. Bull.

 

[jay47]

Does anyone know of any good likes to learn more about issues facing dentistry today or just dental news in general besides ADA, ADEA, and ASDA?

The biggest news (in order);

1. Dental Therapists-good luck to new grads when your state passes legislature for them.
2. Disparities in Access to Care- Big issue, but not solved by the above.
3. The rise of corporate dentistry and it's eventual takeover of the dental industry as we know it-No that's not sarcasm either.
4. Absolutely life-crushing-dream-altering debt many new grads take on for dental school and don't even realize it.
5. The myth of dental insurance (no its not insurance, it's a dental benefits plan with "benefits" that haven't changed in 30 years)
6. The "Platinum*" age of dentistry (*The "Golden" age is over- Platinum refers to the advances patients and consumers will get- not the increasing earning potential of future dentists)

 

[GTFOOMICT]

The biggest news (in order);

1. Dental Therapists-good luck to new grads when your state passes legislature for them.
2. Disparities in Access to Care- Big issue, but not solved by the above.
3. The rise of corporate dentistry and it's eventual takeover of the dental industry as we know it-No that's not sarcasm either.
4. Absolutely life-crushing-dream-altering debt many new grads take on for dental school and don't even realize it.
5. The myth of dental insurance (no its not insurance, it's a dental benefits plan with "benefits" that haven't changed in 30 years)
6. The "Platinum*" age of dentistry (*The "Golden" age is over- Platinum refers to the advances patients and consumers will get- not the increasing earning potential of future dentists)

3 is the most threatening I believe. When they get powerful and large enough they will guarantee that 1 happens in their state or region by leveraging 2. 3 also allows 4 to not be as stunningly obvious because all the new grads ARE getting corporate jobs and ARE paying their bills.

However none of this matters if you get your debt under control or don't get into it in the first place.

 

[jay47]

3 is the most threatening I believe. When they get powerful and large enough they will guarantee that 1 happens in their state or region by leveraging 2. 3 also allows 4 to not be as stunningly obvious because all the new grads ARE getting corporate jobs and ARE paying their bills.

However none of this matters if you get your debt under control or don't get into it in the first place.

I tend to agree with you. Many dentists are not worried about corporate, but they honestly don't see it coming because they are in their own little bubble. They have 100's of times as much money as the ADA or any other lobbying agency and therefore can influence policy much greater than any representative constituency. The student debt bubble WILL burst though, it's not like USC and NYU tuition can rise forever- its ludacris how much it is now, but in 10 years at this rate, it will cost a cool million to go to dental school! (and it already does now with interest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

[yappy]

Meh. Corporate sucks. In my area they're dying yet solo practices are staying. Most dentists I have spoke with are not too worried about them in my region because of that. Apparently the gov. subsidies that subsidized them got cut a few years ago and they were never able to get the rest of the market because given the choice patients don't like them. I can't say I blame them as I felt "sold" when I went to one. Now I'm with a regular non-corp dentist and feel I get much better care.

It seems to me that dentists can learn from them in some areas though.

I tend to agree with you. Many dentists are not worried about corporate, but they honestly don't see it coming because they are in their own little bubble. They have 100's of times as much money as the ADA or any other lobbying agency and therefore can influence policy much greater than any representative constituency. The student debt bubble WILL burst though, it's not like USC and NYU tuition can rise forever- its ludacris how much it is now, but in 10 years at this rate, it will cost a cool million to go to dental school! (and it already does now with interest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

[GTFOOMICT]

Meh. Corporate sucks. In my area they're dying yet solo practices are staying. Most dentists I have spoke with are not too worried about them in my region because of that. Apparently the gov. subsidies that subsidized them got cut a few years ago and they were never able to get the rest of the market because given the choice patients don't like them. I can't say I blame them as I felt "sold" when I went to one. Now I'm with a regular non-corp dentist and feel I get much better care.

It seems to me that dentists can learn from them in some areas though.

They don't receive subsidies. You are likely referring to lowering reimbursement for govt dental care. That will slow them down. The corporate chains have gotten good practice at delivering 'care' at these reduced rates.

Even if you don't treat the population traditionally served by these clinics they affect you. Plus the corporate's will 'move up' the middle class. It's only natural. Look at Hyundai or Kia. They used to sell cheap crap and slowly poaching up and doing a good job at it. Of course there is always daewoo.

 

[Lethstang]

The biggest news (in order);

1. Dental Therapists-good luck to new grads when your state passes legislature for them.
2. Disparities in Access to Care- Big issue, but not solved by the above.
3. The rise of corporate dentistry and it's eventual takeover of the dental industry as we know it-No that's not sarcasm either.
4. Absolutely life-crushing-dream-altering debt many new grads take on for dental school and don't even realize it.
5. The myth of dental insurance (no its not insurance, it's a dental benefits plan with "benefits" that haven't changed in 30 years)
6. The "Platinum*" age of dentistry (*The "Golden" age is over- Platinum refers to the advances patients and consumers will get- not the increasing earning potential of future dentists)

My own research mirrors jays. This is it in a nutshell.

 

[Lethstang]

dental school cost has risen 10k a year for the last ten years! have no doubt guys, we are overpaying for our education. Years from now when the bubble pops, we will be laughed at and felt sorry for.

 

[odieoh]

Honestly?

Two words.

Red. Bull.

Can you elaborate on this?

 

[theleatherwalle]

The biggest news (in order);

1. Dental Therapists-good luck to new grads when your state passes legislature for them.
2. Disparities in Access to Care- Big issue, but not solved by the above.
3. The rise of corporate dentistry and it's eventual takeover of the dental industry as we know it-No that's not sarcasm either.
4. Absolutely life-crushing-dream-altering debt many new grads take on for dental school and don't even realize it.
5. The myth of dental insurance (no its not insurance, it's a dental benefits plan with "benefits" that haven't changed in 30 years)
6. The "Platinum*" age of dentistry (*The "Golden" age is over- Platinum refers to the advances patients and consumers will get- not the increasing earning potential of future dentists)

1: I'm not terribly worried about this one.
2: This is a problem that no-one is solving fast. No-one wants to live in the boonies.
3: Wal-mart is trying to add dentistry, and Aspen and Cool Smiles will be the CVS and Walgreens of dentistry soon. Corporate dentistry will take over within 20-30 years.
4: SO SO SO SO TRUE.
5: I don't understand that
6: Incredibly true.

I still think dentistry is a great profession. We have problems, but what industry doesn't. IMO if you're in the medical field. You are likely going to have relatively secure future.

 

[Mr. Thirsty]

The biggest news (in order);

1. Dental Therapists-good luck to new grads when your state passes legislature for them.
2. Disparities in Access to Care- Big issue, but not solved by the above.
3. The rise of corporate dentistry and it's eventual takeover of the dental industry as we know it-No that's not sarcasm either.
4. Absolutely life-crushing-dream-altering debt many new grads take on for dental school and don't even realize it.
5. The myth of dental insurance (no its not insurance, it's a dental benefits plan with "benefits" that haven't changed in 30 years)
6. The "Platinum*" age of dentistry (*The "Golden" age is over- Platinum refers to the advances patients and consumers will get- not the increasing earning potential of future dentists)

Oh jeez.

1.) I don't think it will effect Dentistry that much, but it does worry me a little.

2.) Yes it won't be solved by the above. This simply has to do with the economy, people being stupid and people not being able to afford care IMO. I know several dentist partnership offices that take walk-ins in my area. The quality of the care isn't "top notch" but it is quite affordable - at least for anyone who doesn't waste their money on unnecessary things . Anyone who gives anything back to society and isn't lazy can afford a cleaning and filling if needed. The bigger problem is lack of cooperation with the patient and them taking care of their teeth.

3.) Corporate dentistry will not take over. I understand that this happened with optometry but dentistry is not the same. I am not a dentist yet, but just by shadowing I can see that the career requires constant creativity for certain cases and quality care comes from giving patients the time that they really need for that root canal to succeed, or for their dentures to fit right (all cliche aside). No two dentists are the same, and people tend to be pretty picky on who the let inside their mouth.
Corporate dentistry is based solely on production, and although they can make it affordable, they won't necessarily do as well of a job in almost every case besides caries. Do you think people will really go there for procedures that require a lot of trust with the doctor? cosmetic procedures such as veneers to name one. I have had a lot of dental work done and the worst decision I have ever made is going to one of these corporate chains for a bridge...it really looks like 3 corn kernels in my mouth...thank god its only molars..but anyways. For one they seem to be saturated with newly graduated dentists that are in debt. They get underpaid, and they aren't idiots - they know this. Anyone who can become a dentist can figure that out very quickly. No dentist is going to stay in a corporate chain. And for the few that do, if this does anything at all to the outlook of dentists it is just going to 'maybe' fix some of the access to care problems since care will be more affordable.
However, we are all going to dental school. We are obviously smart. If we don't want to be overtaken by corporate chains then just don't participate in it (at least for no longer than you have too). Some patients are pretty oblivious to the world of dentistry behind the scenes, and those people probably see the cheap dental chains as a good thing at first. But just Google some reviews from patients from common corporate chains such as Aspen. For the most part they quickly change their minds. Truth is, corporate dentistry will continue to thrive only because of the capitalistic form of our economy, but they will never take over the private practice in dentistry. Maybe it is a good place for new grads to get some experience, providing a middle ground between going to a dental school for an appointment and going to a pricier private practice.
There really are other options like a partnership with another dentist is your debt load is huge. Even this is better than going corporate IMO. I'd rather have a second marriage than not be my own boss. #endrant

4.) Yes. This sucks...

5.) Very true.

6.) Could be true. Maybe not. 🙄

 

[DrJeff]

The biggest news (in order);

1. Dental Therapists-good luck to new grads when your state passes legislature for them.
2. Disparities in Access to Care- Big issue, but not solved by the above.
3. The rise of corporate dentistry and it's eventual takeover of the dental industry as we know it-No that's not sarcasm either.
4. Absolutely life-crushing-dream-altering debt many new grads take on for dental school and don't even realize it.
5. The myth of dental insurance (no its not insurance, it's a dental benefits plan with "benefits" that haven't changed in 30 years)
6. The "Platinum*" age of dentistry (*The "Golden" age is over- Platinum refers to the advances patients and consumers will get- not the increasing earning potential of future dentists)

1) Not a big deal - the economics of this just doesn't work and ultimately will take away from care of the group that gov't hopes it will increase care for since they'll have to spend more of the limited funds they send towards medicaid dentistry to subsize the mid levels vs. actually rendering care

2) Will be dealt with when the inevitable reality that seems to becoming soon, that more people actually have to take responsibility for their own actions vs. just "let the government fix it" happens

3) Going to be some MAJOR pushback on this, and soon as the number of fraud cases associated with them is ever increasing, and that will gain the attention of many a dental regulating board sooner than later

4) Choices from the get go. When more people realize that where one gets their degree from (i.e. an "expensive" private school vs. a more economical public school) DOESN'T matter, this will settle out a bit

5) Good luck with this one. As patients likely will never get that "dental insurance" isn't remotely like their medical insurance which they are far more familiar with

6) The profession of dentistry has always and will continue to go through new and different era's (usually about every 10 to 15 years it seems), so therefore pretty much every practitioner will have to make changes to what the current "era of dentistry" is that were in

 

[Parklife]

1) Not a big deal - the economics of this just doesn't work and ultimately will take away from care of the group that gov't hopes it will increase care for since they'll have to spend more of the limited funds they send towards medicaid dentistry to subsize the mid levels vs. actually rendering care

2) Will be dealt with when the inevitable reality that seems to becoming soon, that more people actually have to take responsibility for their own actions vs. just "let the government fix it" happens

3) Going to be some MAJOR pushback on this, and soon as the number of fraud cases associated with them is ever increasing, and that will gain the attention of many a dental regulating board sooner than later

4) Choices from the get go. When more people realize that where one gets their degree from (i.e. an "expensive" private school vs. a more economical public school) DOESN'T matter, this will settle out a bit

5) Good luck with this one. As patients likely will never get that "dental insurance" isn't remotely like their medical insurance which they are far more familiar with

6) The profession of dentistry has always and will continue to go through new and different era's (usually about every 10 to 15 years it seems), so therefore pretty much every practitioner will have to make changes to what the current "era of dentistry" is that were in

This is slightly outdated, but the point remains.
http://predds(DOT) net/dental-school-admission-statistics/

Many people have to go to "lower tire" schools because of their numbers. It's similar to the Caribbean for the MD. Don't get me wrong, I have 5 family members who went to NYU for both undergrad and various grad(including med). NYU, USC these are great institutions. However, with a 3.34 GPA you can't easily get into say, Georgia Medical College - 3.6 18.7(it's actually bumped up to 19.3ish), UCSF - 3.5 20 DAT, texas-baylor 3.5 19 DAT, LSU- 3.46 19.9 DAT all of which whom offer cheap OOS/IS tuition.

You HAVE to go to schools you can get into; NYU, USC, MUI(meharry and howard aren't counted because they're HBCUs, you have a rat's chance of getting into them if you're not URM), or you have to take a gap year which has it's fair share of risks.

That's one of the reasons for all this fanaticism regarding tuition. Fact is, not everyone gets to go to in-state LSU, Texas-Baylor, UNC, or MCG.

If I were going to NYU or UCS, I'd be worrying my butt off.

--This isn't even accounting for the fact that the schools with lower averages tend to have higher drop rates. Dental school without the DDS? Yikes

 

[theleatherwalle]

Oh jeez.

1.) I don't think it will effect Dentistry that much, but it does worry me a little.

2.) Yes it won't be solved by the above. This simply has to do with the economy, people being stupid and people not being able to afford care IMO. I know several dentist partnership offices that take walk-ins in my area. The quality of the care isn't "top notch" but it is quite affordable - at least for anyone who doesn't waste their money on unnecessary things . Anyone who gives anything back to society and isn't lazy can afford a cleaning and filling if needed. The bigger problem is lack of cooperation with the patient and them taking care of their teeth.

3.) Corporate dentistry will not take over. I understand that this happened with optometry but dentistry is not the same. I am not a dentist yet, but just by shadowing I can see that the career requires constant creativity for certain cases and quality care comes from giving patients the time that they really need for that root canal to succeed, or for their dentures to fit right (all cliche aside). No two dentists are the same, and people tend to be pretty picky on who the let inside their mouth.
Corporate dentistry is based solely on production, and although they can make it affordable, they won't necessarily do as well of a job in almost every case besides caries. Do you think people will really go there for procedures that require a lot of trust with the doctor? cosmetic procedures such as veneers to name one. I have had a lot of dental work done and the worst decision I have ever made is going to one of these corporate chains for a bridge...it really looks like 3 corn kernels in my mouth...thank god its only molars..but anyways. For one they seem to be saturated with newly graduated dentists that are in debt. They get underpaid, and they aren't idiots - they know this. Anyone who can become a dentist can figure that out very quickly. No dentist is going to stay in a corporate chain. And for the few that do, if this does anything at all to the outlook of dentists it is just going to 'maybe' fix some of the access to care problems since care will be more affordable.
However, we are all going to dental school. We are obviously smart. If we don't want to be overtaken by corporate chains then just don't participate in it (at least for no longer than you have too). Some patients are pretty oblivious to the world of dentistry behind the scenes, and those people probably see the cheap dental chains as a good thing at first. But just Google some reviews from patients from common corporate chains such as Aspen. For the most part they quickly change their minds. Truth is, corporate dentistry will continue to thrive only because of the capitalistic form of our economy, but they will never take over the private practice in dentistry. Maybe it is a good place for new grads to get some experience, providing a middle ground between going to a dental school for an appointment and going to a pricier private practice.
There really are other options like a partnership with another dentist is your debt load is huge. Even this is better than going corporate IMO. I'd rather have a second marriage than not be my own boss. #endrant

4.) Yes. This sucks...

5.) Very true.

6.) Could be true. Maybe not. 🙄

Optometrists and Dentists are likely the two very related jobs. You are not giving optos enough credit. If it can happen to opto, it will happen to us. People care more about their eyes than their teeth. If you think they don't, then go out into the real world. Opto is also based on production and various procedures.

 

[Shnurek]

Optometrists and Dentists are likely the two very related jobs. You are not giving optos enough credit. If it can happen to opto, it will happen to us. People care more about their eyes than their teeth. If you think they don't, then go out into the real world. Opto is also based on production and various procedures.

Its true. At one point I was considering getting my tooth pulled rather than paying a $400 co-payment on a root canal.

 

[Lethstang]

Yeah dr jeff id have to disagree on your fourth point. The only way dental education is going to become cheaper is when the entire education bubble pops. Dental schools even at this inflated price still have no problem filling classes.

 

[Parklife]

So, elephant in the room. Let's start talking about the only thing that really matters.


How much will dentist salaries decrease over the next decade or so?

amiright?

 

[yappy]

I'll start = my hypothesis is that no one knows. A physician told me once he was entering medicine Medicare was passing in the 60's and after he was a young attending his income kept growing and growing despite predictions of him living in poverty.

I have noticed a growing trend in the last few years which is the popularity of "futurists". People like to pretend they have crystal balls - they even talk about their predictions in the past tense or forget to add qualifiers such as "I think", "I predict", or "I forecast". In the end it's all BS and no one knows ****. Usually they're trying to sell a book along with their "prediction".

 

[Parklife]

I'll start = my hypothesis is that no one knows. A physician told me once he was entering medicine Medicare was passing in the 60's and after he was a young attending his income kept growing and growing despite predictions of him living in poverty.

I have noticed a growing trend in the last few years which is the popularity of "futurists". People like to pretend they have crystal balls - they even talk about their predictions in the past tense or forget to add qualifiers such as "I think", "I predict", or "I forecast". In the end it's all BS and no one knows ****. Usually they're trying to sell a book along with their "prediction".

Yes, very valid yappy. We're not dentists. Let's keep quiet and hear the professionals out. Yes?

 

[jwdent]

I think one of our biggest flaws of being aspiring dentists is that we generally are smart and analytical people who often tend to over analyze the profession and focus so much on the possible negatives over the positives. I think this leads to many "doomsday" threads. I believe it is important to be informed about the issues facing dentistry but i do not think concerns about the future are anything new to the profession. Mayn other professions have concerns as well. Lawyers face huge saturation problems. Finance is having problems with layoffs and many undergraduates are skeptical about the field. I do not believe dentistry is a guaranteed path to success, but then again what is?

 

[bluesprite13]

I don't know much, but don't think income will decrease badly. If anything, it will go up with the rate of retiring dentists projected to offset the rate of incoming dentists. I'm just basing it off this observation, excluding any legislation that may effect dentistry.

 

[bluesprite13]

Also, I am a bit confused. Does Obama Care only provide certain dental services only to those who have medical problems? I'm just trying to understand. 🙂