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Egg122

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Never even heard of that company.
Thought it would be one of the other ones that are more recognizable.
For a "no name company" they sure hit a high dollar.
Their company name is sort of comical, or foreshadowing. Now they really are done.

In some ways it just really doesn't matter. You can throw a stone and get an ARNP to hit refill. Or find non-fellowship trained psychologists to do "Psych testing" to yield reports that then have PCPs running with ADHD diagnosis and opening up the spigot.

More and more these days I have thoughts of why bother? Why stop it?
If people want cake, let them have cake.
 
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I had a patient go on this site and get a stimulant rx then advise me they wanted me to continue it so they could just use insurance. I had advised previously that I did not think they had ADHD and then they got a second opinion from a psychiatrist who also advised them they did not have ADHD. I went to the website to check it out and they advertise ADHD assessments in under a minute 😵
 
Never even heard of that company.
Thought it would be one of the other ones that are more recognizable.
For a "no name company" they sure hit a high dollar.
Their company name is sort of comical, or foreshadowing. Now they really are done.

In some ways it just really doesn't matter. You can throw a stone and get an ARNP to hit refill. Or find non-fellowship trained psychologists to do "Psych testing" to yield reports that then have PCPs running with ADHD diagnosis and opening up the spigot.

More and more these days I have thoughts of why bother? Why stop it?
If people want cake, let them have cake.
Done was generally uttered in the same sentence as Cerebral and others. It is one of the big/recognizable ones.
 
Huh. Guess I just didn't register it with patients, glossed over it, or some how was in a regional bubble/pocket for that one.
 
Done was generally uttered in the same sentence as Cerebral and others. It is one of the big/recognizable ones.
I didn't realize until I read an article today that Cerebral supposedly stopped prescribing stimulants in 2022. Would explain why the past few months I've been seeing a lot less ADHD referrals for people already on stimulants. Hasn't stopped patient who want stimulants from getting referred to me, but at least I'm not having fights with the PCPs about who tells them they can't have stims anymore.
 
I got more than one new patient who got told they had ADHD by Done but the initial eval was dodgy enough that they were like, 'huh, I'm not sure if I buy it.'

I wonder who flipped or blew the whistle. Either these guys were just incredibly dumb and put a lot of stuff in writing that should never be written down or they've got a witness with significant access.

If you read the summary of the indictment this was pretty egregious on a number of levels. If they had even vaguely gestured towards actual medical care I don't think we'd be seeing this.

Things not to do as a telehealth company:

1) Require all initial evaluations be less than 30 minutes regardless of complexity

2) Tell clinicians to prescribe Adderall even if patient does not meet criteria for ADHD

3) Refuse to pay clinicians for any follow-up visits or further evaluations of any kind

4) Automatically generate refill requests without any patient input for a schedule II substance

5) Pay clinicians based solely on how many prescriptions they write

6) Using a subscription model while avoiding any interactions beyond the initial evaluation, just mail the scripts, never follow up

7) Lie a bunch to pharmacies and CMS

8) Start shredding documents when a subpoena is announced targeting another telehealth company.

Really, if they had even tried to make it look legit, I expect they'd be fine.
 
I got more than one new patient who got told they had ADHD by Done but the initial eval was dodgy enough that they were like, 'huh, I'm not sure if I buy it.'

I wonder who flipped or blew the whistle. Either these guys were just incredibly dumb and put a lot of stuff in writing that should never be written down or they've got a witness with significant access.

If you read the summary of the indictment this was pretty egregious on a number of levels. If they had even vaguely gestured towards actual medical care I don't think we'd be seeing this.

Things not to do as a telehealth company:

1) Require all initial evaluations be less than 30 minutes regardless of complexity

2) Tell clinicians to prescribe Adderall even if patient does not meet criteria for ADHD

3) Refuse to pay clinicians for any follow-up visits or further evaluations of any kind

4) Automatically generate refill requests without any patient input for a schedule II substance

5) Pay clinicians based solely on how many prescriptions they write

6) Using a subscription model while avoiding any interactions beyond the initial evaluation, just mail the scripts, never follow up

7) Lie a bunch to pharmacies and CMS

8) Start shredding documents when a subpoena is announced targeting another telehealth company.

Really, if they had even tried to make it look legit, I expect they'd be fine.
Who the heck signed up to work for them?? Even the laziest, greediest clinician usually has more survival instincts than to put their licenses at risk with such comically egregious circumstances, and if they lack the survival instincts they usually then have the entrepreneurial instincts to strike out on their own and not put themselves at risk in someone else's money printing pill mill....

Edit: after typing that I think your question about how they fell can be deduced. Likely one or more of the prescribing clinicians were cooperating witnesses in hope of leniency.
 
Who the heck signed up to work for them?? Even the laziest, greediest clinician usually has more survival instincts than to put their licenses at risk with such comically egregious circumstances, and if they lack the survival instincts they usually then have the entrepreneurial instincts to strike out on their own and not put themselves at risk in someone else's money printing pill mill....

Edit: after typing that I think your question about how they fell can be deduced. Likely one or more of the prescribing clinicians were cooperating witnesses in hope of leniency.

NPs…lots of them!
 
Eh I mean as a pure numbers game probably but even within the pool of NPs without adequate training, prescribing too many medications for poor indications, being willing to sign on with a company that actively disincentivizes even a single follow up visit seems to be entirely in another league of lunacy.
 
Eh I mean as a pure numbers game probably but even within the pool of NPs without adequate training, prescribing too many medications for poor indications, being willing to sign on with a company that actively disincentivizes even a single follow up visit seems to be entirely in another league of lunacy.
Their site now only lists their "clinical leaders", which are Brody, another psychiatrist, and an NP. I remember looking at their website at one point in the past and seeing 3-4 total psychiatrists and then hundreds of NPs listed as prescribers. My guess is a lot of them were young NPs with poor training and limited experience who didn't know any better. I'm sure plenty of others just didn't care and just wanted the paycheck. Either way glad to see at least one crackdown happening.
 
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Mindbloom next

They need to get venture capitalists out of healthcare and most importantly mental healthcare
 
Their site now only lists their "clinical leaders", which are Brody, another psychiatrist, and an NP. I remember looking at their website at one point in the past and seeing 3-4 total psychiatrists and then hundreds of NPs listed as prescribers. My guess is a lot of them were young NPs with poor training and limited experience who didn't know any better. I'm sure plenty of others just didn't care and just wanted the paycheck. Either way glad to see at least one crackdown happening.
Didn't know better? We shouldn't even consider that an acceptable excuse. Physicians get quality training and as a result know better. This double standard we are allowing to exist is infuriating.
 
Didn't know better? We shouldn't even consider that an acceptable excuse. Physicians get quality training and as a result know better. This double standard we are allowing to exist is infuriating.
As you point out, we get quality training. Many NPs (most imo) do not and the adage “you don’t know what you don’t know” is depressingly relevant. Sometimes this is the fault of the NP, but imo it’s more of a systemic problem of their educational model and system than an individual issue. Many NPs will openly admit that themselves.

Someone should also go after clearly incompetent NPs who were providing services at Done and the like
Imo the biggest thing needed is a modern day Flexner Report on NP programs. If anyone wanted to pursue that, then I’d heartily support them. Going after individual NPs, even en masse through companies like this is unlikely to make a dent in the actual problem.
 
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A modern flexner would be definitely needed. But when we have the societies of most every medical specialty saying we love ARNPs... it won't get much traction, although very needed.

Then we are in the midst of culture wars in America, and this too would surely get wrapped up in the front lines, where the evil doctors are oppressing the nice nurse victims.
 
Eh I mean as a pure numbers game probably but even within the pool of NPs without adequate training, prescribing too many medications for poor indications, being willing to sign on with a company that actively disincentivizes even a single follow up visit seems to be entirely in another league of lunacy.

Someone should also go after clearly incompetent NPs who were providing services at Done and the like

As you point out, we get quality training. Many NPs (most imo) do not and the adage “you don’t know what you don’t know” is depressingly relevant.

Fixed.
 
It is wild to me that all these online pill mills are at 100 or more NPs per 1 MD and the outrage is only against the top brass (and don't get me wrong, they should get the book thrown at them). Completely unreal to be considered an "independent provider" and not take responsibility for your patients. It is not a tight labor market for NPs, no one forced anyone to sign up or stay in these jobs. This is not the scam industry in India where people are being forced to work versus threat of death.
 
It is wild to me that all these online pill mills are at 100 or more NPs per 1 MD and the outrage is only against the top brass (and don't get me wrong, they should get the book thrown at them). Completely unreal to be considered an "independent provider" and not take responsibility for your patients. It is not a tight labor market for NPs, no one forced anyone to sign up or stay in these jobs. This is not the scam industry in India where people are being forced to work versus threat of death.
From a legal perspective, this all kind of makes sense. If you read the press release, it's clear that the prosecutors want to paint the prescribers as victims of the machinations of the leadership too. It's not entirely logical, but will likely be much easier to sell to a jury than individual providers who likely did not make $100 million.
 
From a legal perspective, this all kind of makes sense. If you read the press release, it's clear that the prosecutors want to paint the prescribers as victims of the machinations of the leadership too. It's not entirely logical, but will likely be much easier to sell to a jury than individual providers who likely did not make $100 million.
Yes, I get that with wildly increasing wealth inequality that we are going to get these ongoing narratives versus the big bad bosses (who need to be severely punished in this instance).

But come on, this is the practice of medicine, not selling widgets that we are describing. If we are going to abdicate folks practicing medicine from personal responsibility things could get ugly fast.
 
This is the double standard, which could rant on for quite a bit.
ARNPs get a wider berth.

Now, even cardiology is offering a simple example for them to get a certificate. The ability to start off as an FNP and do minimal work to then be anything in medicine truly is a win for them.

There are no signs of this expansion slowing down, stopping, reversing.
 
Yes, I get that with wildly increasing wealth inequality that we are going to get these ongoing narratives versus the big bad bosses (who need to be severely punished in this instance).

But come on, this is the practice of medicine, not selling widgets that we are describing. If we are going to abdicate folks practicing medicine from personal responsibility things could get ugly fast.
You're also assuming they'll be held to the same standards of physicians. Nursing lobbies have already successfully argued that because they are practicing "nursing" and not "medicine" that their standards of care are different. It's how NPs won FPA in several states (including mine) without having to meet the same licensing qualifications as physicians.

What you're suggesting would also likely entail lawyers going after NPs in these large telehealth companies not meeting standards of care en masse, which means national nursing lobbies would get involved. No legal group wants to take that on.
 
This is the double standard, which could rant on for quite a bit.
ARNPs get a wider berth.

Now, even cardiology is offering a simple example for them to get a certificate. The ability to start off as an FNP and do minimal work to then be anything in medicine truly is a win for them.

There are no signs of this expansion slowing down, stopping, reversing.

In my group, there is a PA. He was a psych PA last year; he is now a urology PA. I asked him what he thought of that, and how he was handling urology after only 3 months of nonexistent “training” (basically shadowing a urologist and seeing random urology patients on the side).

His response: “well I think it’s been really nice to be able to switch it up, it keeps things interesting”.

…right. So I guess I’ll just “switch it up” in a few years, and become a dermatologist. Oops, I forgot. I can’t.

What an absolute joke.
 
In my group, there is a PA. He was a psych PA last year; he is now a urology PA. I asked him what he thought of that, and how he was handling urology after only 3 months of nonexistent “training” (basically shadowing a urologist and seeing random urology patients on the side).

His response: “well I think it’s been really nice to be able to switch it up, it keeps things interesting”.

…right. So I guess I’ll just “switch it up” in a few years, and become a dermatologist. Oops, I forgot. I can’t.

What an absolute joke.
This is clearly impacted by the recent concentrated effort to discredit experts across the globe and in the US. Ironically, as the knowledge of the human race becomes more vast and deep, the need for experts grows, but we keep seeing more pushback against them.
 
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