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Thomato

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Wow. The last time I posted on here, I hadn’t even graduated from HS yet. 🥲

My most-recent thread (if you look at my profile) was my soliciting thoughts regarding my time at a one-year biblical studies program. I’m happy to say that I graduated from that program with high honors. After that, I didn’t immediately enroll at a college. I got married to my middle and high school sweetheart (we’re doing great), traveled, moved, and worked full-time to garner some real-world experience. In regard to my faith, I’ve ironically been deconstructing for almost a year now. I was raised as a conservative, evangelical Christian, and I’ve reached a point where I’d now describe myself as a universalist. I’m still figuring out what I believe, really. Aren’t we all, to some degree? I write all of that to provide some context for where I’m at now in relation to my former religious studies.

My wife and I have moved back to our home state (NH). I’m starting at a community college this fall to save money on my education. New Hampshire has a great transfer program for community college students, so I’ll finish my degree at one of the state universities. On a different note, I’ve landed a great non-clinical job that pays an exceptional amount. Moreover, the work schedule is flexible. I intend on sticking with this job for my entire undergraduate career.

Needless to say, I’m still planning on becoming a physician. I’m writing this post because I’m looking for a variety of advice. My hope is to not take a gap year after undergrad, since I’ve kind of done a “backwards” gap three-years. I want to put my nose to the grindstone and apply to medical school as soon as I can. I understand that life happens and something might come up that would make it a wise move for me to defer my applying; I’m hoping that a situation like that doesn’t happen, but obviously I wouldn’t waste money and time if I need to wait. Because I’m challenging myself, I want to use the few months I have before my start of college (woot!) to set myself up for success by crafting a general game plan for the next several years. To try to accomplish that, here are some of the questions that I have:

1. After reading my situation, what are some general exhortations that come to mind?

2. What do you recommend I do to maximize my time spent at my community college? I understand that I won’t necessarily have the same resources available to me that I would have if I began at a four-year institution. Has anyone here either attended community college themselves or are familiar with others’ situations who have done so?

3. I’d like to do research in college, but I’m not sure how much I’ll be able to do at CC. I imagine I’ll only be able to start doing research once I matriculate at the university. When that time comes (roughly a junior in college), will I be “late to the party” in terms of being able to have some meaningful experiences (not necessarily the “official” meaningful experiences related to AMCAS)?

4. I come from a military background. My father, his four sisters, and his father all served in the armed forces. I’m interested in carrying on the tradition, and not just for tradition’s sake. Because of my interest, I’m strongly considering doing the HPSP through one of the branches, with my first choice being the Navy. Physically speaking, I believe I’m eligible after having done some preliminary research. Does anyone have any advice or resources—or both—that would be helpful to me? I haven’t done any looking into ROTC. Would that be worthwhile if I decide to commit to applying for the HPSP? Regardless, I intend on seeking out shadowing opportunities with military physicians so that I can get a good feel for military medicine and see if it would be the right fit for me and my wife.

5. Being married relatively young (by the way, we are waiting a while on kids) and living close to my family and my in-laws makes for an unusual (but enjoyable!) set of circumstances. Do any other non-trads have some practical advice for balancing the pre-med journey with maintaining healthy familial relationships? My family knows I’m going to be busy, and they have affirmed their support, however, I don’t want them to feel neglected. Any wisdom in this matter is appreciated.

6. In high school, I shadowed physicians for 20 hours and volunteered at my local emergency department for 91 hours over the span of three years. Would it be beneficial if I restarted my volunteering at the same hospital, and if so, would it make sense to include the high school hours on my medical school applications (since it continued when I entered college)? Or should I pursue entirely different clinical EC’s and start fresh? The reason I hesitate in doing the latter is that I can’t discount the value of the experiences I had; they relate to my decision to go down the path of medicine. I had great interactions with patients, doctors, and other healthcare professionals. But are those experiences “valuable” in the eyes of medical school admissions committees? If they are, how should I include them in my future applications? And to clarify, I intend on doing a different clinical EC or two regardless of if I volunteer again at the same hospital; I’d like to branch out into other areas as an undergrad. I was more limited in high school, so I took what I could.

7. When the time comes to apply for medical school, should I discuss my gap years after high school and how they all relate to my decision to attend CC, start college “late”, etc.? I assume that I should—and I guess I’ll have to considering that my biblical studies transcript will be sent in—but I’m feeling a bit lost as to how exactly I should go about doing so. During my gap years, I looked into a variety of other careers, but everything has circled back to medicine, specifically working as a doctor. I truly believe it’s what I’m meant to do, despite how hokey that might sound; I can’t imagine myself being satisfied doing anything else. I’d love some general guidance as to how I might convey my gap years in a way that makes sense to the admissions committees. Thankfully, I have time before I would have to do so, but I want to start thinking about it in advance.

I know I’ll have more questions as everything progresses. This is an exciting time in my life, and it’s a joy to me that SDN exists as a free wealth of information to assist so many people, including myself. I appreciate the community here. I’m looking forward to posting more—and responding to others’ posts when I can—throughout my journey. I hope to be able to rejoice in an acceptance with you all someday.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post—I know it’s a lengthy one—and craft a response; I greatly appreciate it.

I’m glad to be back on SDN!

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Welcome back! I'm happy to answer what questions I can.

Regarding maximizing your time at CC: You need to be earning all As, no exceptions. There is a widespread perception (sometimes founded, sometimes not) that CC coursework is easier/less rigorous than 4 year university coursework, and poor/mediocre CC grades hurt an application. Not every medical school accepts core prerequisites (e.g., ochem, physics) taken at CC, so I recommend purchasing a subscription to the Medical School Admissions Requirements Database to determine which schools those are. You may wish to take all your core prerequisites after you transfer to university depending on the requirements of your target schools/schools in your region. Do this research before you enroll in CC.

Regarding research: you will definitely not be "late" if you only do research after you transfer to a 4 year university. I didn't start any science research at all until my gap year following my postbac, and I still managed to get several presentations/posters/talks/pubs out of the experience. You'll want to join up with a productive lab/PI when the time comes. Keep in mind that research is not strictly necessary for many medical schools, so don't stress too much about this element of your app - just do what you can. Also, depending on what you major in at your university, you may have built-in research experiences (research electives, capstone/thesis projects, etc.) that you can put on your application.

Regarding marriage: Your spouse needs to be 100% on board with the extensive time commitment required of you to excel in premed coursework (and medical school, and residency). During my postbac, there were times when I was studying/researching/working/volunteering for up to 80 hours every week. I'd have days where I wasn't really able to hang out or even catch up with my husband - I'd come home at 8PM and then study until midnight before collapsing into bed. We were like ships passing in the night during my busiest periods. Maximize the time you do have together (e.g., on the weekends) and encourage your spouse to develop independent hobbies, interests, and goals if she hasn't already. As you're probably aware, the schedule doesn't really get any better during medical school/residency - you'll be working long hours for at least the next decade, possibly more depending on the specialty you pursue. It's hard being a medical spouse; constant communication between you two is key.

Regarding ECs: Since the 91 hours of hospital volunteering you accumulated were from several years ago when you were still a kid, just start fresh. You've taken a several year break (I think?) from this activity, so it didn't really "continue" into your actual premed years. I don't think adcoms will be convinced that these hours you obtained as a teenager were incredibly formative/useful experiences. They will expect you to reflect on your more recent clinical exposure from an adult standpoint. You can definitely go back to volunteering at the same facility if that's easiest for you; no issue there.

Regarding your gap years: You don't actually have all that much space on your application to discuss things like pre-college activities and your nonlinear journey in detail, so work on wrapping up your path to premed in a paragraph or less. You want a quick blurb hitting the highlights. You want to use the majority of your essay space to reflect on your most recent/current experiences.
 
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I recommend purchasing a subscription to the Medical School Admissions Requirements Database to determine which schools those are.

@Bonne Nuit, is there a DO equivalent for the MSAR? Even if I were to have a strong MCAT and GPA, I'm very interested in DO schools.
 
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@Bonne Nuit, is there a DO equivalent for the MSAR? Even if I were to have a strong MCAT and GPA, I'm very interested in DO schools.

Unfortunately, there is not.

For DO programs, I recommend making a spreadsheet and updating it with information you glean from individual DO websites (average GPA/MCAT, prerequisite coursework and LOR requirements, etc.) You can do this for MD schools in lieu of purchasing the MSAR, too; I just think the convenience of having all the information in one spot is worth the ~$30/year price tag.
 
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Unfortunately, there is not.

That’s too bad. Thanks for the spreadsheet recommendation. As far as the MSAR goes, I purchased it right after you advised I do so. It’s been really helpful for seeing what some particular schools think about community college courses, and it’s guided me pretty well already.

On a different note, I have something else I forgot to mention. Maybe you have an answer, @Bonne Nuit. I’d also like to call upon the expertise of @Goro and @gonnif—if they’re available and have an answer—so that I can put this question to bed. Gonnif, you actually commented on my previous thread when I was in high school and was asking about the accredited biblical studies program I was going to attend. As I wrote on this particular thread, I graduated from that program with high honors, so that’s a small bonus for my overall GPA. 🙂

Anyway, after I graduated from that particular program, two years later, I attended—for less than a semester—a missionary training school. It’s an unaccredited program. What makes this school complicated is that they grant an “associates” at the end of their program and have a grading system in place. It’s a school associated with a particular Christian mission organization. To add to my confusion here, they state that they have “formal agreements” with a variety of accredited Christian universities, who accept the credits earned at the training school. In other words, the training school makes it clear that they are not accredited. They do, however, make it clear that some seminaries and accredited Christian universities accept their “degree” for transfer credits. Not surprisingly, no mainstream (i.e., “secular”) universities are listed.

My question is whether or not I will be obligated to include a transcript from this missionary training school on my future medical school applications. I have a feeling that I won’t need to include this school because of the fact that the institution itself isn’t accredited. They say on their website that they are “positioning themselves” for accreditation and will eventually send in an accreditation application. But they haven’t yet, as far as I’m aware. Should I get in writing from the school that they were not accredited during the time I attended? Or is that being too neurotic?

Frankly, I don’t want to include this school on my application because my grades weren’t great. My grades were poor because I began deconstructing my faith and consequently lacked motivation to do any religious studies. I was kind of fed up with everything. I’m not trying to get too personal; I just want to explain why my grades were poor.

Can I confidentially leave that school out from my application since they are not accredited? The only thing throwing me off is the fact that they have “formal agreements” with some accredited—albeit Christian—universities, which means that those particular schools would give real transfer credits for the courses taken at the missionary training school.

Thank you in advance for guidance in this matter.
 
It doesnt matter other christian universities accept the credits. If the program you attended is both a) chartered by the state to actually offer degree (even if they call it associates degree) and; b) accredited by appropriate Organization. Sounds like this missionary training program does not fit by criteria and does not have to be reported

Great! Glad to hear that. Thanks for your confirmation.
 
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A few thoughts for you to consider:

1. you seem very ambitious and have a lot planned, try to be flexible as things will change.
2. in my experience: grades, work, relationships; you can only choose 2.
3. research does not have to be through your academic institution, if you plan to do it, start early.
4. everything before high school graduation doesn't "count" for application, but you can speak to it in your personal statement.

Good luck!
 
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A few thoughts for you to consider:

1. you seem very ambitious and have a lot planned, try to be flexible as things will change.
2. in my experience: grades, work, relationships; you can only choose 2.
3. research does not have to be through your academic institution, if you plan to do it, start early.
4. everything before high school graduation doesn't "count" for application, but you can speak to it in your personal statement.

Good luck!

Good thoughts. Thanks for contributing!
 
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