It's official: Physician Associate (not Assistant).

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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
It’s not just admins. Plenty of academic physicians love midlevels because they do all the stuff they don’t want to do so they can sit in their offices and collect a paycheck while their army of midlevels mismanages their patients.
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Per empoweredpas' instagram post, "despite what AMA would have us believe, there are many physicians who support and help promote the PA profession"
Went back to the comments again, someone said Associate Physician would have been a nice title change too...........
 
Ms Procrastinator said:
Per empoweredpas' instagram post, "despite what AMA would have us believe, there are many physicians who support and help promote the PA profession"
Went back to the comments again, someone said Associate Physician would have been a nice title change too...........
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Yeah. There are plenty of physicians who love PAs, $ince they increa$e acce$$ to care $o much.
 
Osminog said:
Next, they should do what the PTs did and change their degree to a doctorate. “Hi, I’m Dr. Jones, an internal medicine physician associate here at XYZ Hospital.” If that doesn’t achieve their ultimate goal of being consistently mistaken for physicians by patients, then I don’t know what will.
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Exactly
 
Lawpy said:
I'm just thinking what's stopping us from replacing midlevels with unmatched IMGs. Because i think a lot of countries have this model from earlier discussions
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Why not have MAs who didn't even obtain a certificate/graduate from their program fill the residency slots instead? 😆
 
jhmmd said:
Why not have MAs who didn't even obtain a certificate/graduate from their program fill the residency slots instead? 😆
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I already proposed an idea to train MAs/techs specialized things to replace midlevels permanently. I could see this happen
 
1621972827850.jpeg
 
Browsing the PA forums, it appears a lot of members aren't too pleased with the new name change, claiming it is as misleading as before.

www.physicianassistantforum.com

Did PAFT just throw our profession under the bus and back over it?

What in the actually F? "After careful review of the information presented, the PAFT Board of Directors disagrees with the title Medical Care Practitioner’s final recommendation. The professional direction should not be for a wholesale name change but for a name modification to clarify our physic...
www.physicianassistantforum.com www.physicianassistantforum.com
www.physicianassistantforum.com

HOD VOTE ON TITLE CHANGE

The voting meeting on title change is underway. The Speaker was sure to say the refcom does not choose the outcome; it is a majority vote. If we are to change the title we will do it today. There is still debate going on just prior to the voting. I am unsure who is watching other than me and the ...
www.physicianassistantforum.com www.physicianassistantforum.com

grass is always greener.
 
JimmyPage1969 said:
Browsing the PA forums, it appears a lot of members aren't too pleased with the new name change, claiming it is as misleading as before.

www.physicianassistantforum.com

Did PAFT just throw our profession under the bus and back over it?

What in the actually F? "After careful review of the information presented, the PAFT Board of Directors disagrees with the title Medical Care Practitioner’s final recommendation. The professional direction should not be for a wholesale name change but for a name modification to clarify our physic...
www.physicianassistantforum.com www.physicianassistantforum.com
www.physicianassistantforum.com

HOD VOTE ON TITLE CHANGE

The voting meeting on title change is underway. The Speaker was sure to say the refcom does not choose the outcome; it is a majority vote. If we are to change the title we will do it today. There is still debate going on just prior to the voting. I am unsure who is watching other than me and the ...
www.physicianassistantforum.com www.physicianassistantforum.com

grass is always greener.
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Lol they wanted an even more confusing name, medical care practitioner. Should have just stuck with Physicians assistant.
 
The problem with midlevels is that they want the same amount of respect, prestige, and pay that physicians EARN over the course of one's career. There are no shortcuts in life. Prestige, respect, and pay are superfluous aspects to becoming a physician. Yes you can help people without being a health professional. Yes you can take care of patients in a medical setting w/out being a doctor. But if you want it ALL you have to pay your dues. No way around that.
 
Why doesn’t our profession protect itself? We should legislate that the term “ physician” can only be used by an MD/DO. If not I’d guess the NPs will join the PAs and change their title to Nurse Physician.
 
Cauchy said:
Why doesn’t our profession protect itself? We should legislate that the term “ physician” can only be used by an MD/DO. If not I’d guess the NPs will join the PAs and change their title to Nurse Physician.
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We are fragmented. The surgical specialties are only looking out for themselves.
 
Lem0nz said:
And you saying **** like this makes us so much more inclined to come to the table. You can kindly screw right off with this.
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You know this comes off as “pointing out that we’re doing something unsavory is offensive to us and makes us more likely to keep doing said unsavory thing” right?

If you disagree that this is the case, then provide some counterargument.
 
Steve_Zissou said:
You know this comes off as “pointing out that we’re doing something unsavory is offensive to us and makes us more likely to keep doing said unsavory thing” right?

If you disagree that this is the case, then provide some counterargument.
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Before about six months ago when I hopped onto Reddit I didn’t even know independent practice was a thing as a surgical resident, nor that people were so upset about it.

The midlevels I’ve worked with have been incredibly useful and wonderful because in surgery their scope is easily defined and no one makes decisions on surgical patients that the surgeon doesn’t know about, usually ever. Midlevel, consultant, resident, take your pick. So when I saw all this for the first time and defended them with my experience, recognizing and saying I only know what they’re like in surgery, you know what happened? “SIMP. Stupid f***ing surgeon. S**t doctor. Only in it for the money.” And since then I’ve read, I’ve listened, and I’ve interjected where I feel it’s useful to point out that our world is vastly different from the medical side and has an entirely different set of problems and pressures. But I still get the same replies.

You can ask me for a counterpoint but at the end of the day: you’re right. I no longer care. When I tried to engage and be a part of the conversation I got Splenda’s BS “surgeons are surgeons and they don’t care and would sell their grandmothers if it made them more money”.

I am definitely a lost cause. I don’t think independent practice should be a thing and I do think it’s a huge mistake, but the people in the echo chamber just make me shake my head and acknowledge that I in fact would probably not lift a finger to help push back against it because ya’ll are toxic AF.

But maybe you should think about that before you condemn the rest of surgery for those of us just coming to the conversation and looking to participate, learn, and see your point of view. Because seeing that ****? That’s a great way to make sure surgeons will continue to say you’re a waste of their time.
 
Lem0nz said:
Before about six months ago when I hopped onto Reddit I didn’t even know independent practice was a thing as a surgical resident, nor that people were so upset about it.

You can ask me for a counterpoint but at the end of the day: you’re right. I no longer care. When I tried to engage and be a part of the conversation I got Splenda’s BS “surgeons are surgeons and they don’t care and would sell their grandmothers if it made them more money”.

I am definitely a lost cause. I don’t think independent practice should be a thing and I do think it’s a huge mistake, but the people in the echo chamber just make me shake my head and acknowledge that I in fact would probably not lift a finger to help push back against it because ya’ll are toxic AF.

But maybe you should think about that before you condemn the rest of surgery for those of us just coming to the conversation and looking to participate, learn, and see your point of view. Because seeing that ****? That’s a great way to make sure surgeons will continue to say you’re a waste of their time.
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Never said anything like that. I just feel like surgeons do not understand our concerns because their specialties are 'safe' for now. I am glad you starting to comprehend why some of us are trying to push back against midlevel encroachment.
 
Splenda88 said:
Never said anything like that. I just feel like surgeons do not understand our concerns because their specialties are 'safe' for now. I am glad you starting to comprehend why some of us are trying to push back against midlevel encroachment.
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No, you did not directly say that in this thread. But can you really not see why the only reference to surgery in this entire thread which was by you saying we care about nothing but ourselves would not be offensive?

Is it really that hard to say, “We need more doctors, specifically surgery, to care about this more and be more involved?”

Again, if you don’t care enough to not take shots at us to air some petty grievance, why is there an expectation of change? Or if there is no expectation/desire to get us to change, why are you even wasting your time talking about midlevels at all? If you’re going to write off a quarter of the physician work force that brings in well over half the revenue for most hospital systems... well yes. You’re going to change precisely nothing with that strategy.
 
Lem0nz said:
No, you did not directly say that in this thread. But can you really not see why the only reference to surgery in this entire thread which was by you saying we care about nothing but ourselves would not be offensive?

Is it really that hard to say, “We need more doctors, specifically surgery, to care about this more and be more involved?”

Again, if you don’t care enough to not take shots at us to air some petty grievance, why is there an expectation of change? Or if there is no expectation/desire to get us to change, why are you even wasting your time talking about midlevels at all? If you’re going to write off a quarter of the physician work force that brings in well over half the revenue for most hospital systems... well yes. You’re going to change precisely nothing with that strategy.
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Not sure that is actually the case.

1. Cardiovascular surgery
  • Average revenue: $3.7 million
  • Average salary: $425,000
2. Cardiology (invasive)
  • Average revenue: $3.48 million
  • Average salary: $590,000
3. Neurosurgery
  • Average revenue: $3.44 million
  • Average salary: $687,000
4. Orthopedic surgery
  • Average revenue: $3.29 million
  • Average salary: $533,000
5. Gastroenterology
  • Average revenue: $2.97 million
  • Average salary: $487,000
6. Hematology/Oncology
  • Average revenue: $2.86 million
  • Average salary: $425,000
7. General surgery
  • Average revenue: $2.71 million
  • Average salary: $350,000
8. Internal medicine
  • Average revenue: $2.68 million
  • Average salary: $261,000
9. Pulmonology
  • Average revenue: $2.36 million
  • Average salary: $418,000
10. Cardiology (noninvasive)
  • Average revenue: $2.31 million
  • Average salary: $427,000

www.beckershospitalreview.com

These 10 physician specialties generate the most revenue for hospitals - Becker's Hospital Review | Healthcare News & Analysis

The amount of revenue physicians generate for hospitals is typically considerably more than their annual salaries, according to a recent survey by physician staffing firm Merritt Hawkins.
www.beckershospitalreview.com www.beckershospitalreview.com
 
Splenda88 said:
Not sure that is actually the case.

1. Cardiovascular surgery
  • Average revenue: $3.7 million
  • Average salary: $425,000
2. Cardiology (invasive)
  • Average revenue: $3.48 million
  • Average salary: $590,000
3. Neurosurgery
  • Average revenue: $3.44 million
  • Average salary: $687,000
4. Orthopedic surgery
  • Average revenue: $3.29 million
  • Average salary: $533,000
5. Gastroenterology
  • Average revenue: $2.97 million
  • Average salary: $487,000
6. Hematology/Oncology
  • Average revenue: $2.86 million
  • Average salary: $425,000
7. General surgery
  • Average revenue: $2.71 million
  • Average salary: $350,000
8. Internal medicine
  • Average revenue: $2.68 million
  • Average salary: $261,000
9. Pulmonology
  • Average revenue: $2.36 million
  • Average salary: $418,000
10. Cardiology (noninvasive)
  • Average revenue: $2.31 million
  • Average salary: $427,000

www.beckershospitalreview.com

These 10 physician specialties generate the most revenue for hospitals - Becker's Hospital Review | Healthcare News & Analysis

The amount of revenue physicians generate for hospitals is typically considerably more than their annual salaries, according to a recent survey by physician staffing firm Merritt Hawkins.
www.beckershospitalreview.com www.beckershospitalreview.com
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So neurosurgery, ortho, cancer, and CV/interventional cards/cards are 8/10 on your list.

Tell me, which specialties on that list do you think use midlevels the most and would be hurt the most from restricting or removing them?

You know what, it’s cool. It’s rhetorical. The answer is CV, ortho, cancer, NSG.

😑
 
Lem0nz said:
So neurosurgery, ortho, cancer, and CV/interventional cards/cards are 8/10 on your list.

Tell me, which specialties on that list do you think use midlevels the most and .
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Lem0nz said:
would be hurt the most from restricting or removing them?

You know what, it’s cool. It’s rhetorical. The answer is CV, ortho, cancer, NSG.

😑
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If you think these are surgeons, you may be right.

No one is talking about removing midlevels; we want them to have a defined role. Since they are independent in 24 states, what would prevent a nurse practitioner with DNP to advertise herself as: Dr. Anna Yamalachi "gastroenterology specialist" in her private clinic? > 50% of the US population would think that person is a gastroenterologist.
 
Splenda88 said:
If you think these are surgeons, you may be right.

No one is talking about removing midlevels; we want them to have a defined role. Since they are independent in 24 states, what would prevent a nurse practitioner with DNP to advertise herself as: Dr. Anna Yamalachi DNP "gastroenterology specialist" in her private clinic? > 50% of the US population would think that person is a gastroenterologist.
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No, you did not directly say that in this thread. But can you really not see why the only reference to surgery in this entire thread which was by you saying we care about nothing but ourselves would not be offensive?

Is it really that hard to say, “We need more doctors, specifically surgery, to care about this more and be more involved?”

I wrote it again because you must have missed it the first time.
 
Lem0nz said:
No, you did not directly say that in this thread. But can you really not see why the only reference to surgery in this entire thread which was by you saying we care about nothing but ourselves would not be offensive?

Is it really that hard to say, “We need more doctors, specifically surgery, to care about this more and be more involved?”

I wrote it again because you must have missed it the first time.
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I did not miss it.

I was wrong the way I phrased it. My sincere apology!
 
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This doesn’t help anyone but I’m going to give an anecdote. This was over 10 years ago when I was a lowly med student. One of my preceptor’s patients brought in a family member, ostensibly to seem more official, since she was wearing a jacket embroidered with “Dr. (Smith, or whatever her name was.)”. So, I asked her, “Dr Smith, what specialty are you?” Only then did she say “I have a PhD in nursing.”

Again, this old story doesn’t help settle any debates, just another example of the intentional blurring of lines.
 
Lem0nz said:
Before about six months ago when I hopped onto Reddit I didn’t even know independent practice was a thing as a surgical resident, nor that people were so upset about it.

The midlevels I’ve worked with have been incredibly useful and wonderful because in surgery their scope is easily defined and no one makes decisions on surgical patients that the surgeon doesn’t know about, usually ever. Midlevel, consultant, resident, take your pick. So when I saw all this for the first time and defended them with my experience, recognizing and saying I only know what they’re like in surgery, you know what happened? “SIMP. Stupid f***ing surgeon. S**t doctor. Only in it for the money.” And since then I’ve read, I’ve listened, and I’ve interjected where I feel it’s useful to point out that our world is vastly different from the medical side and has an entirely different set of problems and pressures. But I still get the same replies.

You can ask me for a counterpoint but at the end of the day: you’re right. I no longer care. When I tried to engage and be a part of the conversation I got Splenda’s BS “surgeons are surgeons and they don’t care and would sell their grandmothers if it made them more money”.

I am definitely a lost cause. I don’t think independent practice should be a thing and I do think it’s a huge mistake, but the people in the echo chamber just make me shake my head and acknowledge that I in fact would probably not lift a finger to help push back against it because ya’ll are toxic AF.

But maybe you should think about that before you condemn the rest of surgery for those of us just coming to the conversation and looking to participate, learn, and see your point of view. Because seeing that ****? That’s a great way to make sure surgeons will continue to say you’re a waste of their time.
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So your argument is that because someone is being mean to a big tough surgeon that patients should suffer at the hand of wild midlevels. Because it doesn't matter in your field then it doesn't matter to you in other areas of the health system. Seems like a measured response... At least you aren't pretending anymore and just admitted to being exactly what some other people are irritated about. It took you long enough lol.

Anyways, surgery is funny. I identify greatly with the stereotypical personality. I expect excellence and self-sufficiency of myself and I expect it of others as well in my work and personal life. I don't ask for help if at all possible and it irritates me when I'm doing more work as a result of someone else not having their **** together. In fact, if it wasn't for what I'm about to say next I would probably be like you with regards to my attitude toward the topic at hand.

And this leads me to a short story inspiring a recent comment I made about surgeons not wanting anyone to do things that they cannot handle the complications of themselves and then simultaneously not caring about midlevels. I said it was bizarre and contradictory to the nature of the successful surgeons I have known and worked with for many, many years. They expected excellence and no annoyances. They handled their **** and expected others to do so as well.

Old people often complain about having to pay school taxes where they live. They say, "I've not been in school for 40 years. Why do I have to pay school taxes?" and other shortsided **** like that. When they get to a certain age they can opt out in my area. I have heard this from an old, ornery friend several times over the years, among other people. This same person was complaining about young people in the area while we were having a beer recently. He was essentially saying the people he has been interacting with don't have manners, don't know how to speak English, don't know how to do basic things in their menial jobs etc. My rebuttal was that if he didn't support the education system then this was the type of young person to expect. All the grocery store workers, all the fast food workers, etc. The quality of the youth in a community is tied to this. If you want pleasant people and nice infrastructure in your community then you have to fund and support it. You definitely don't get to whine about it if you don't do anything to help.

Tying this back to surgery: The surgeons I know and love in my family and community absolutely don't want more bad consults, more work, more rescueing, more unprofessional behavior we see from midlevels who didn't spend years learning how to act in a health system in residency, etc. That's why the surgeons I know IRL actively support their non-surgical physician colleagues despite knowing they don't have to at all. Even if it could be construed as selfish reasons, they know that they don't want more work and more people annoying them with stupid consults and screwups. There is a whole amazing thread in the surgical subforum dedicated to consults and interactions with people that are annoying and perplexing... does anyone actively want more of that? If nothing else, surgeons should support their physician colleagues so they can focus on things they like to do at work.
 
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Neopolymath said:
So your argument is that because someone is being mean to a big tough surgeon that patients should suffer at the hand of wild midlevels. Because it doesn't matter in your field then it doesn't matter to you in other areas of the health system. Seems like a measured response... At least you aren't pretending anymore and just admitted to being exactly what some other people are irritated about. It took you long enough lol.

Anyways, surgery is funny. I identify greatly with the stereotypical personality. I expect excellence and self-sufficiency of myself and I expect it of others as well in my work and personal life. I don't ask for help if at all possible and it irritates me when I'm doing more work as a result of someone else not having their **** together. In fact, if it wasn't for what I'm about to say next I would probably be like you with regards to my attitude toward the topic at hand.

And this leads me to a short story inspiring a recent comment I made about surgeons not wanting anyone to do things that they cannot handle the complications of themselves and then simultaneously not caring about midlevels. I said it was bizarre and contradictory to the nature of the successful surgeons I have known and worked with for many, many years. They expected excellence and no annoyances. They handled their **** and expected others to do so as well.

Old people often complain about having to pay school taxes where they live. They say, "I've not been in school for 40 years. Why do I have to pay school taxes?" and other shortsided **** like that. When they get to a certain age they can opt out in my area. I have heard this from an old, ornery friend several times over the years, among other people. This same person was complaining about young people in the area while we were having a beer recently. He was essentially saying the people he has been interacting with don't have manners, don't know how to speak English, don't know how to do basic things in their menial jobs etc. My rebuttal was that if he didn't support the education system then this was the type of young person to expect. All the grocery store workers, all the fast food workers, etc. The quality of the youth in a community is tied to this. If you want pleasant people and nice infrastructure in your community then you have to fund and support it. You definitely don't get to whine about it if you don't do anything to help.

Tying this back to surgery: The surgeons I know and love in my family and community absolutely don't want more bad consults, more work, more rescueing, more unprofessional behavior we see from midlevels who didn't spend years learning how to act in a health system in residency, etc. That's why the surgeons I know IRL actively support their non-surgical physician colleagues despite knowing they don't have to at all. Even if it could be construed as selfish reasons, they know that they don't want more work and more people annoying them with stupid consults and screwups. There is a whole amazing thread in the surgical subforum dedicated to consults and interactions with people that are annoying and perplexing... does anyone actively want more of that?
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If that’s what you got from my post then I failed, so I’ll try to explain again more directly. My argument is that if you want surgeons to participate and be on your side you should not start by insulting them. When they come and ask questions and want to learn and share their own experiences it is not helpful to your cause to then insult them.

I cannot state it more plainly than that. No, I will not help you if you first tell me I am a ****ty doctor and/or don’t give a **** about anything but myself. There are other problems in medicine that I can spend my time, money, or effort on where I can engage with people who simply won’t act like that toward a colleague.
 
Lem0nz said:
If that’s what you got from my post then I failed, so I’ll try to explain again more directly. My argument is that if you want surgeons to participate and be on your side you should not start by insulting them. When they come and ask questions and want to learn and share their own experiences it is not helpful to your cause to then insult them.

I cannot state it more plainly than that. No, I will not help you if you first tell me I am a ****ty doctor and/or don’t give a **** about anything but myself. There are other problems in medicine that I can spend my time, money, or effort on where I can engage with people who simply won’t act like that toward a colleague.
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It's hard not to get that first part from your post because you actually said it. This isn't a case of being misunderstood. Your words stand on their own there. All I did was bold it for emphasis. This post I'm quoting now might add some qualifying statement (that I agree with) but it still doesn't change the fact that you legitimately said that.

Why call other physicians a colleague? Do you even actually think they are? Your actions don't particularly agree with that if you can't be bothered to support a movement because someone online wasn't nice to you. Some person online was a meanie so I'm taking my ball and going home haha. Patient safety be damned. Less work be damned. Less annoying consults be damned. This person hurt my feels. Alright, man, I get it. It's cool. They are colleagues when you want to turf some BS to them but not colleagues when outside forces are trying to destroy their field. That's convenient, though I can't blame anyone. I think Ortho is the smartest guys in the hospital by far and hold no ill will toward them. I don't hold any ill will toward surgery trying to operate as much as possible and avoid other things if they have the power to do so. I would do it too if I didn't think it would shoot myself in the foot with more work in a midlevel hellscape. Let's just keep it real though on the relationship.

And for the record, I have a pretty pragmatic view of human behavior and motivation. I really don't care what surgery says or does. I don't think it ultimately matters and I'm ultimately not worried about it (I meant what I said about self-sufficiency in my life). I just think you, as a poster here, are funny to watch in these threads play both sides of the ball then get upset and play the victim too.
 
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Wow this thread has been derailed to medical be surgical. We should focus at the real problem at hand: midlevels. Lol.

as a surgeon who also works ICU with mostly non-surgeons, I have the perspective of both sides. Somewhat of a hybrid breed.

I think most humans are selfish and just looking out for themselves. This is not unique to surgeons. Yes, surgeons make a lot of revenue for hospitals and often command higher pay or wishlists, but at the end of the day if we are not united as a profession we will all be hurt. No one is truly safe from politics and “market forces”. I think surgeons who think they are too good to help their medical counterparts are somewhat falsely reassured that they’re irreplaceable.

regarding the role of NP/PA in surgical vs non-surgical fields: there is naturally a greater gap in knowledge/skill between the surgeon and NP/PA compared to non-surgeons with their NP/PA. This doesn’t change the fact that we should try to protect our profession and keep roles defined and stop the multitude of reasons that blur the lines including doctors who want to train midlevels to do kind of do exactly what they can do to turn a profit.

I’m not sure where to start. Especially in our current mode of mostly employed physicians where we are not part of the chain of command of mid levels or nurses. If anything, there’s often a nurse-administrator who is part of our chain of command. We don’t really hire or fire. We are not really the boss. Sure, we have some say in all these things but ultimately we are “colleagues” of different worth to administration rather than their boss who can dictate terms of engagement.
 
I wanna bring back the focus of the original thread; because both the AANP and AAPA have successfully fragmented, not only healthcare in general, but physicians as well. What's the point of getting mad at each other when we have to stop the scope creep. Either by lobbying against FPA laws or advocating for complete separation from liability WHILE advocating for full transparency in roles. Either way, the public will only become more aware of who should be leading the team.

The cost of the whole name change was about $21 million. Furthermore, it was a vote within their organization. It hasn't affected any laws and, thus, they can only be referred to as "Physician Assistant." It's akin to the AMA deciding that all MD's must be called " Physician Supreme Overlord of Health." It's great and all, but physicians will still be called "physicians."

PPP will definitely fight this when the AAPA will start advocating to change the laws at the national and state level. I pray the AMA does (we'll see about that.)
 
Neopolymath said:
It's hard not to get that first part from your post because you actually said it. This isn't a case of being misunderstood. Your words stand on their own there. All I did was bold it for emphasis. This post I'm quoting now might add some qualifying statement (that I agree with) but it still doesn't change the fact that you legitimately said that.

Why call other physicians a colleague? Do you even actually think they are? Your actions don't particularly agree with that if you can't be bothered to support a movement because someone online wasn't nice to you. Some person online was a meanie so I'm taking my ball and going home haha. Patient safety be damned. Less work be damned. Less annoying consults be damned. This person hurt my feels. Alright, man, I get it. It's cool. They are colleagues when you want to turf some BS to them but not colleagues when outside forces are trying to destroy their field. That's convenient, though I can't blame anyone. I think Ortho is the smartest guys in the hospital by far and hold no ill will toward them. I don't hold any ill will toward surgery trying to operate as much as possible and avoid other things if they have the power to do so. I would do it too if I didn't think it would shoot myself in the foot with more work in a midlevel hellscape. Let's just keep it real though on the relationship.

And for the record, I have a pretty pragmatic view of human behavior and motivation. I really don't care what surgery says or does. I don't think it ultimately matters and I'm ultimately not worried about it (I meant what I said about self-sufficiency in my life). I just think you, as a poster here, are funny to watch in these threads play both sides of the ball then get upset and play the victim too.
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If you’ve been reading my posts until now I haven’t been vague in my wording. I think the movement is toxic. I think it conducts itself poorly. The bottom line of “no independent practice” is sound. But it has been co-opted by a great many people who think we should be rude or condescending to midlevels for simply existing, that they shouldn’t exist at all and we should somehow fire 1 million + people because ‘patient safety’, or that it’s ok to attack other physicians.

I care what people think of the profession and you don’t have to go far in these forums, on Reddit, and even in life if you bring this up where people look at our anonymous but very public conversations about this and shake their heads and see some combination of vulgar abused doctors taking out their rage on a human punching bag, closet racists, or entitled borderline sociopaths who will attack anyone and everyone.

Every fourth post in Reddit blames ‘liberal woke culture’. You can’t start a thread on midlevels here and not make it to page 2 before an obligatory ‘surgeons don’t care’. I’ve seen on an at least monthly basis residents or medical students invoking the Holocaust to help relate what’s happening right now in medicine in America.

That is the reason I don’t support the movement. Not because someone hurt my feels, but because that sort of behavior is not only tolerated, when people say any of those things amongst of host of other garbage having nothing to do with independent practice two or three others come to their defense and amplify it instead of calling it out which is exactly what you did.
 
toes701 said:
Podiatrists are physicians as defined by the federal government. It’s a shame we get lumped with chiropractors. lol.
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General​

Physician means doctor of medicine, doctor of osteopathy (including osteopathic practitioner), doctor of dental surgery or dental medicine (within the limitations in C.), doctor of podiatric medicine (within the limitations in D.), or doctor of optometry (within the limitations of F.), or a chiropractor (within the limits of G.), legally authorized to practice by a State in which he performs this function. The services performed by a physician within these definitions are subject to any limitations imposed by the State on the scope of practice.
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SSA - POMS: HI 00401.295 - Physician Defined

Physician Defined
secure.ssa.gov secure.ssa.gov

key phrase is "within the limits"
I have a ton of respect for podiatrists, but parity isn't quite there yet, especially with the new Ortho/Pod task force agreement for the USMLE.
 
JimmyPage1969 said:

SSA - POMS: HI 00401.295 - Physician Defined

Physician Defined
secure.ssa.gov secure.ssa.gov

key phrase is "within the limits"
I have a ton of respect for podiatrists, but parity isn't quite there yet, especially with the new Ortho/Pod task force agreement for the USMLE.
Click to expand...
All I took from that is that there’s a degree called “Master Chiropodist” and it’s all I want to be called now.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Oh, and the name change is going to cost an estimated $21 million. Money well spent I guess.
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I guess they were originally called that. People claim that it was what was on their degree when they got it.

Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
In case no one has mentioned this, the AAPA says that PAs are still required to go by Physician Assistant until their state laws are changed. So if any PA tries to call themselves a physician associate, they can be shut down.
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I realized that. It made it all the more weird that they were celebrating like it was the second coming of Christ. They can't really call themselves "Associates" unless their individual states say so, some might not even be able to do so. I'm telling you, all this excitement over the name change is them gearing up for independent practice. A layperson might not want to see an "Assistant" over a Physician, but they might be duped into seeing an "Associate".
 
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