It's time for pharmacists to unionize across the board

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Trent Steele

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If you're working at a chain or hospital, then yeah it should be unionized.

Independent pharmacy, nah, I like being non-union here because the owner can fudge around with the payroll and get me some cash off the books.
 
If you're working at a chain or hospital, then yeah it should be unionized.

Independent pharmacy, nah, I like being non-union here because the owner can fudge around with the payroll and get me some cash off the books.

Is this real life???
 
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F*ck unions. Corrupt as all ****. Better off negotiating pay on my own.
 
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I feel like that's not the issue at hand though. There has to be a measure in place to prevent a company/hospital from just firing you at will.

Why do we deserve that right? A company can fire you at any time same as an employee can quit anytime, it's a right that flows both ways. If you don't like that, find a company with better retention policies...that's the solution.

When I hear union, I think:

1) Lazy ass pharmacists with job security that don't do ****

2) Massive amounts of entitlement due to seniority aka I deserve the sun moon and stars purely because my kiss ass has been here longer.

3) No incentive for pharmacists to get better

4) Lots of whining to the union rep for petty things

5) Forced union dues aka a tax

6) Drama drama drama filled workplaces

7) No one wants to go above and beyond for anything and anyone
 
It's been discussed on here ad nauseam. In order for a union to work there has to be some sort of leverage the union can use to compel the employer to act in the way the union wants. Unionizing pharmacists is a waste of time simply for the fact a union will have zero leverage.
 
Some of us are trying to advance the profession into provider status and other exciting things (albeit slowly)...trying to stick that dynamic of a profession into a stodgy/antiquated institution that's past its prime is antithetical to such a push.
 
Why do we deserve that right? A company can fire you at any time same as an employee can quit anytime, it's a right that flows both ways. If you don't like that, find a company with better retention policies...that's the solution.

When I hear union, I think:

1) Lazy ass pharmacists with job security that don't do ****

2) Massive amounts of entitlement due to seniority aka I deserve the sun moon and stars purely because my kiss ass has been here longer.

3) No incentive for pharmacists to get better

4) Lots of whining to the union rep for petty things

5) Forced union dues aka a tax

6) Drama drama drama filled workplaces

7) No one wants to go above and beyond for anything and anyone

You shouldn't be fired just because you and a supervisor don't get along or see eye to eye.
 
If the union can provide for better pay, benefits and humane treatment at a net benefit to the pharmacist after union dues are taken out I'm fine with it. But if it squashes jobs that wouldn't be a good thing. I can see "fine, we'll give you all 3 weeks vaca minimum, allow for you to use the bathroom and eat and won't fire you based on mundane things... but we are going to cut down to 80% of our original staff to make up for it."

The best thing we can do for the profession, in my opinion, is lobby and push for expanded scopes and provider status through insurance plans and state funded insurances. Create a new market and job source for pharmacists that gives the PharmD more value. If there are more clinical options with better/comparable pay to retail I can almost guarantee that retail standards will go up to compensate, that's how the market works. That's also why we've gone from sign on bonuses and rapid salary growth to less jobs and more laid off pharmacists as the economy tanked, schools opened, older pharmacists delayed retirement and pharmacies began getting away with setting lower standards for how they treat employees. If every hospital, clinic and healthcare facility could hire pharmacists that can bill for insurance and make them possibly a net income outside of dispensing you'll see rapid job growth as pharmacists being included in clinics and on healthcare teams almost always results in higher quality of care with less adverse events happening. As of now many clinical pharmacy jobs exist because they recognize pharmacists save them money through less readmissions, better drug therapy for patients and less ADRs.
 
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You shouldn't be fired just because you and a supervisor don't get along or see eye to eye.

We're valuable and expensive to train, that's being a poor supervisor...not an excuse for a union for everyone.
 
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I don't think you have a choice if you work in retails. You don't have any leverage. The job market is saturated. Things will only get worse. Your corporate employers know this and they are treating you guys like crap. Paying a fair salary is one thing but cutting your hours because you didn't pick up the phone within 2 rings or because you didn't get enough people to sign up for a membership card is another.

Unionize is a good way to counter this. Look at Kaiser. Look at how much their pharmacists are making. Would they have gotten the same deal without a union? I doubt it.
 
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Unionize is a good way to counter this. Look at Kaiser. Look at how much their pharmacists are making. Would they have gotten the same deal without a union? I doubt it.

Kaiser so-cal actually fired their union, they have their own issues. There's a reason we say you've been "kaiserized" after coming on board.
 
Kaiser so-cal actually fired their union, they have their own issues. There's a reason we say you've been "kaiserized" after coming on board.

Kaiser socal doesn't have a union anymore?
 
It's been discussed on here ad nauseam. In order for a union to work there has to be some sort of leverage the union can use to compel the employer to act in the way the union wants. Unionizing pharmacists is a waste of time simply for the fact a union will have zero leverage.

Depends on the size. A nationwide CVS/Wags/Rite Aid/etc union would wield nutso power.
 
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Why do we deserve that right? A company can fire you at any time same as an employee can quit anytime, it's a right that flows both ways. If you don't like that, find a company with better retention policies...that's the solution.

When I hear union, I think:

1) Lazy ass pharmacists with job security that don't do ****

2) Massive amounts of entitlement due to seniority aka I deserve the sun moon and stars purely because my kiss ass has been here longer.

3) No incentive for pharmacists to get better

4) Lots of whining to the union rep for petty things

5) Forced union dues aka a tax

6) Drama drama drama filled workplaces

7) No one wants to go above and beyond for anything and anyone

With the exception of number 5 and 6 you just mentioned all the f**king awesome things about being in a union. Being lazy. Job security. Don't do shi*. Entitlement. Seniority. Don't have to get better. Whine about petty things. Don't have to go above and beyond.

Everything I ever hated working anywhere is gone when I work at a union job. Thanks for opening my eyes.

And anyone who says there shouldn't be a union at CVS is a fuc**ng idiot. That's one company in which the pharmacists would finally regain control, power, and at least some damn fu**ing respect if they unionized. Nobody has the balls to do it. If I had a union rep for what I was fired for, I would have never been fired.
 
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Vacation and PTO determined by seniority is bull****.
 
Id be down in a second. And the added benefit of giving new grad scabs the once over is appealing

With a union we'd have lunch break, other breaks for long days, higher tech ratio/hours (by enforcing legal tech/rph ratios) and other benefits.
 
A union does not confer some magical power upon its members. A union is only as powerful as the will of it's members to go on strike to get what they want. Raise your hand if you're a pharmacist who is willing and able to go on strike without pay for months on end if necessary to get your employer to agree to a unions demands. Who do you think can hold out longer...you or the company? With the worsening surplus of new grads that are over 200k in debt there will be no trouble finding non-union workers to take your place while your out on unpaid vacation.

If you have any questions on how well a strike would work Google Chicago Walgreens Pharmacist Strike.
 
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Is this real life???
I would expect nothing less from someone that uses wall hacks.

Seriously though Spard, I agree with you that independent pharmacies shouldn't be union. You need unions to handle the big corporations, not the guy running a ten employee pharmacy.

Though you really shouldn't cook your books, I've seen what happens to people that get caught and it's not pretty. Well, pretty compared to what some people get (a nice white collar prison), but you're risking your license and your freedom for a few bucks.
 
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A union does not confer some magical power upon its members. A union is only as powerful as the will of it's members to go on strike to get what they want. Raise your hand if you're a pharmacist who is willing and able to go on strike without pay for months on end if necessary to get your employer to agree to a unions demands. Who do you think can hold out longer...you or the company? With the worsening surplus of new grads that are over 200k in debt there will be no trouble finding non-union workers to take your place while your out on unpaid vacation.

If you have any questions on how well a strike would work Google Chicago Walgreens Pharmacist Strike.
No retail chain would bear being on strike for long- even with replacement workers, they'd lose potentially tens to hundreds of millions of dollars in a prolonged strike. The companies that facilitate suck temporary workers charge two to four times what a normal worker would earn. I was offered $95 an hour to do temp work as a respiratory therapist during a union strike, I can't even imagine the rates a pharmacist would command.
 
Unions may be corrupt, but thank unions for the 40 hour workweek. Companies like CVS are trying to take that back from people. The only problem I see with Rx unions is that it will be hard to garner public support for union jobs that make over 100k. However, the nursing unions are huge and the average nurse where I am makes close to 80k, and they basically have the hospitals by the balls.

So as far as a retail union, I think it could work, and to be honest, is necessary. Hospital is a different story, but I know there are many inpatient pharm tech unions. Provider status will only get this profession so far.
 
No retail chain would bear being on strike for long- even with replacement workers, they'd lose potentially tens to hundreds of millions of dollars in a prolonged strike. The companies that facilitate suck temporary workers charge two to four times what a normal worker would earn. I was offered $95 an hour to do temp work as a respiratory therapist during a union strike, I can't even imagine the rates a pharmacist would command.

Google Walgreens Chicago Pharmacist Strike.

The retail chains can hold out longer than the pharmacists. How many pharmacist are willing and able to go without a paycheck for a day let alone months? Additionally what do you think the public's perception will be of 100k a year pharmacists going on strike?
 
Google Walgreens Chicago Pharmacist Strike.

The retail chains can hold out longer than the pharmacists. How many pharmacist are willing and able to go without a paycheck for a day let alone months? Additionally what do you think the public's perception will be of 100k a year pharmacists going on strike?

None of us would strike for money. We'd strike for more tech help and less corporate nonsense.
 
With a union we'd have lunch break, other breaks for long days, higher tech ratio/hours (by enforcing legal tech/rph ratios) and other benefits.

These are already enshrined in state laws/regulations, I don't need to pay even more money to some union boss ***** to reiterate these.
 
Google Walgreens Chicago Pharmacist Strike.

The retail chains can hold out longer than the pharmacists. How many pharmacist are willing and able to go without a paycheck for a day let alone months? Additionally what do you think the public's perception will be of 100k a year pharmacists going on strike?

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...harmacists-association-walgreens-white-collar

Wow the strike failed miserably, yet claimed they got their message across. Increased metrics and reduced safety for patients say otherwise. They caved. A nursing union never would never have caved. In addition, pharmacists are going up against a super power corporation that basically prints money, whereas hospital workers are up against mostly not for profit orgs that can be hit in the wallet a lot harder and faster. All pharmacy orgs have always been weak compared to docs and nurses, and WAG crushing their union shows this as truth, though I think going up against companies like WAG and CVS makes the job much harder than another union would need.
 
A union does not confer some magical power upon its members. A union is only as powerful as the will of it's members to go on strike to get what they want. Raise your hand if you're a pharmacist who is willing and able to go on strike without pay for months on end if necessary to get your employer to agree to a unions demands. Who do you think can hold out longer...you or the company? With the worsening surplus of new grads that are over 200k in debt there will be no trouble finding non-union workers to take your place while your out on unpaid vacation.

If you have any questions on how well a strike would work Google Chicago Walgreens Pharmacist Strike.

Agree. If it were so easy, then Wal-Mart employees would have walked out with pitchforks 20 years ago for better pay and benefits. And those are people, in many circumstances, that are drawing government benefits along with their minimum wage. They don't have student debt or mortgages or boat payments. It would actually be a lot easier to walk out and organize as a low-wage earner.

The majority on this board have too much "stuff" to pay for. Very few here are going to risk a walk-out and make a principled stand. Because of what we make. Most labor unions represent labor. It's just difficult to rally people who are making $120k+ with mortgages, kids in college or their own student loans, cars, boats, vacation, etc.
 
Kudos to the nursing unions. I just think it's unrealistic. And I think it would have happened if it were going to happen.
 
Google Walgreens Chicago Pharmacist Strike.

The retail chains can hold out longer than the pharmacists. How many pharmacist are willing and able to go without a paycheck for a day let alone months? Additionally what do you think the public's perception will be of 100k a year pharmacists going on strike?

What do low wage earners do during strike anyway? Surely any pharmacist would be in a better position to handle striking than any, say, TV writer.

How hard is it to start a union anyway I wonder?
 
I'm all for it.
Kudos to the nursing unions. I just think it's unrealistic. And I think it would have happened if it were going to happen.

I think it could still happen. Many pharmacists I know tend to have a lone wolf attitude. They have no hesitation throwing someone else under the bus just to get a little further ahead themselves. They'd rather knock someone else down than stand up for themselves. Maybe it's just the mindset of the type of person who chooses to become a pharmacist in the first place.
 
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Not sure if Walgreens still has it, but I remember in their training a number of years ago, they taught employees things to say if approached by a union and encouraged to join. They basically were telling their employees joining a union could get them fired (without being that specific -- but definitely insinuating such). I'm pretty sure discouraging union activity is illegal though! Does anybody else remember this?

I'm not against unions in theory. I'm not sure if I'm for them in practice, though. I think I'd rather just live in states that guarantee lunch and bathroom breaks.
 
It's been discussed on here ad nauseam. In order for a union to work there has to be some sort of leverage the union can use to compel the employer to act in the way the union wants. Unionizing pharmacists is a waste of time simply for the fact a union will have zero leverage.

This. Unions work when there is a shortage of qualified workers....but when there is a shortage of workers (aka the "golden" days of pharmacy), nobody needs a union because businesses bend over backwards for employees.

A union does not confer some magical power upon its members. A union is only as powerful as the will of it's members to go on strike to get what they want. Raise your hand if you're a pharmacist who is willing and able to go on strike without pay for months on end if necessary to get your employer to agree to a unions demands. Who do you think can hold out longer...you or the company? With the worsening surplus of new grads that are over 200k in debt there will be no trouble finding non-union workers to take your place while your out on unpaid vacation.
If you have any questions on how well a strike would work Google Chicago Walgreens Pharmacist Strike.

And this. Unions that do work, have to be willing to go on strike for long periods of time, thinks months, or even a year or two. Even then, there is no guarantee they will win (after that long of a time, many capitulate to a worse contract than they were offered in the first place. And of course, who can forget the what happened to the air traffic controllers in the 80's.)


In theory, unions are a good thing (just like, in theory, PBM's are a good thing.) Streamline the hiring and benefit process is just like streamlining the insurance process. How they actually work in process is something different.
 
It is almost certainly time to create a real life raft for the coming floods. But will we? Almost certainly... not.

Pharmacy has turned into a "duck you, got mine!" kind of field. We'll keep a look out for #1 and will fail to feel the waters creeping up and before we know it we'll be chained in a windowless room performing MTM in adult diapers. In all seriousness, though, benefits and work conditions will continue to erode.
 
The time to unionize is before things go to chit. 10 or 12 years ago would have been a great time to unionize when we still had some leverage ie a shortage of pharmacists. I am guilty as charged for riding the shortage wave by taking sign on bonuses and relocation packages instead of worrying about the future of the profession.
 
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Think unions work for nursing because these hospitals don't have a large number of non-union workers to pull from, so they have to hire temp scabs (which cost them an arm and a leg). They also have to hire a whole lot of them just for one hospital. They also cant temporarily shut down a location if it can't be staffed.
Pharmacists would never unionize completely in open shop states. This would leave large numbers of non-union pharmacists across the country. Even in Union Shop states CVS could close locations during a strike or pull pharmacists from a non-union location (cheaper than they could hire temps).
 
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