It's time to unionize

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PharBeyondDriven

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I previously worked as a nurse and I am now a pharmacist. Our profession would benefit greatly from being unionized. The chains want to push metrics on us. Well, we need to push metrics on them! They push, and we need to push back. We need a union rep calling the district supervisor and telling him that he needs to get his "employee satisfaction" scores up.

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Good thing I don’t have any of those issues to deal with.

I dunno, c’mon everyone knew chains were pushing metrics over ten years ago and that this is how retail operates. Anyone who shows up on the front lines today as a new grad and is shocked probably shouldn’t be.


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I previously worked as a nurse and I am now a pharmacist. Our profession would benefit greatly from being unionized. The chains want to push metrics on us. Well, we need to push metrics on them! They push, and we need to push back. We need a union rep calling the district supervisor and telling him that he needs to get his "employee satisfaction" scores up.

I agree.

Good thing I don’t have any of those issues to deal with.

I dunno, c’mon everyone knew chains were pushing metrics over ten years ago and that this is how retail operates. Anyone who shows up on the front lines today as a new grad and is shocked probably shouldn’t be.


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I don't have those issues either now that I'm a pharmacist, but I encountered them while interning. I'd still be willing to help my brethren on the front lines at retail.
 
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Good thing I don’t have any of those issues to deal with.

I dunno, c’mon everyone knew chains were pushing metrics over ten years ago and that this is how retail operates. Anyone who shows up on the front lines today as a new grad and is shocked probably shouldn’t be.


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It's isn't just about metrics, it's about basic dignity. Nobody should have to work 12 hours standing on their feet with no lunch break. Yet, in union stores this just doesn't happen.
 
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I previously worked as a nurse and I am now a pharmacist. Our profession would benefit greatly from being unionized. The chains want to push metrics on us. Well, we need to push metrics on them! They push, and we need to push back. We need a union rep calling the district supervisor and telling him that he needs to get his "employee satisfaction" scores up.

Unions only work when the unified group of workers have leverage.

The group can only include so many pharmacists.

What is the union supposed to do about everyone not included in their union?
 
Agreed. Been saying this for the past 10 years. How serious are you? What can you bring to the table?

Off topic, but systematically speaking, pharmacist should own pharmacies. Not corporations. Corporations still our wealth, our prosperity, our autonomy, our opportunity to innovate, and most importantly our impact to provide patients with the care that they need and deserve. I understand that they broke the system to the point where it's very difficult to win, but I hope that someday, we deconstruct the systems they built, and we can win again. Pharmacist are the most accessible healthcare professional in every community, and are also the most under utilized because of corporate structure.

I previously worked as a nurse and I am now a pharmacist. Our profession would benefit greatly from being unionized. The chains want to push metrics on us. Well, we need to push metrics on them! They push, and we need to push back. We need a union rep calling the district supervisor and telling him that he needs to get his "employee satisfaction" scores up.

Leverage? Um. We have social media (linkedin, facebook, reddit, SDN, etc) and, more importantly licenses. Last time I checked, you need a (licensed) pharmacist to operate a pharmacy in all 50 states. I could not imagine an idea where there's more leverage than having the law on your side. Most professions only dream of this. Working conditions have been poor for the past ten years, and it will get worse. Better to stop the bleeding now, than not at all.

I'm assuming you won't be helping, so, thanks for your very brilliant analysis. That's typically what most (basic) people say at the beginnings of any change, or revolution. Glad you're special though.

Unions only work when the unified group of workers have leverage.

The group can only include so many pharmacists.

What is the union supposed to do about everyone not included in their union?
 
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Agreed. Been saying this for the past 10 years. How serious are you? What can you bring to the table?

Off topic, but systematically speaking, pharmacist should own pharmacies. Not corporations. Corporations still our wealth, our prosperity, our autonomy, our opportunity to innovate, and most importantly our impact to provide patients with the care that they need and deserve. I understand that they broke the system to the point where it's very difficult to win, but I hope that someday, we deconstruct the systems they built, and we can win again. Pharmacist are the most accessible healthcare professional in every community, and are also the most under utilized because of corporate structure.



Leverage? Um. We have social media (linkedin, facebook, reddit, SDN, etc) and, more importantly licenses. Last time I checked, you need a (licensed) pharmacist to operate a pharmacy in all 50 states. Working conditions have been poor for the past ten years, and it will get worse. Better to stop the bleeding now, than not at all.

I'm assuming you won't be helping, so, thanks for your very brilliant analysis. That's typically what most (basic) people say at the beginnings of any change, or revolution. Glad you're special though.
How would the unions use those?

I'm genuinely curious.
 
Ah. You want a strategy plan? Well, I could come up with one in about 5 minutes. It's a framework that you use to disrupt any business/social construct/system. But, I'm good. I'll save it for when there's a possibility for it to be put in action.

How would the unions use those?

I'm genuinely curious.
How would the unions use those?

I'm genuinely curious.
 
Ah. You want a strategy plan? Well, I could come up with one in about 5 minutes. It's a framework that you use to disrupt any business/social construct/system. But, I'm good. I'll save it for when there's a possibility for it to be put in action.
I'm not asking for a detailed strategy plan or an excerpt of a startup pep-talk.

You gave examples for a reason, no?

You mentioned things that could be leveraged.

This means there are two possibilities:
1.) You do have a high-level, broad understanding of how they could be leveraged

Or

2.) You wanted to be contrarian, so you said a few things that you feel could be, but you'd need to work on thinking of actual reasoning on why those specific things would work uniquely for the profession of pharmacy.

I don't want to imply that you just have a tendency to fall back on a defense mechanism where you say "this isn't worth my time" whenever someone asks you to back up what you say.

Please don't take it that way

Thanks
 
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I'm not asking for a detailed strategy plan or an excerpt of a startup pep-talk.

You gave examples for a reason, no?

You mentioned things that could be leveraged.

This means there are two possibilities:
1.) You do have a high-level, broad understanding of how they could be leveraged

Or

2.) You wanted to be contrarian, so you said a few things that you feel could be, but you'd need to work on thinking of actual reasoning on why those specific things would work uniquely for the profession of pharmacy.

I don't want to imply that you just have a tendency to fall back on a defense mechanism where you say "this isn't worth my time" whenever someone asks you to back up what you say.

Please don't take it that way

Thanks

------------------------------

It's a bit of both. I'm reading a book about systems, and breaking systems right now. I think to be effective at change making, you have to have both #1 and #2.

I don't believe the current sentiment of community pharmacist is sustainable, especially amongst a profession with so much untapped power. There are very few industries where the law is completely on your side, and pharmacy is one of them. One strike or even threat of a strike at scale could disrupt the entire US Healthcare system.

At this point, it's just a matter of organizing (or unionizing in this case) to come up with a plan to leverage pharmacist power (i.e. their licensures) to execute this. Doesn't even have to be big. Can be in one small area in the country before it gets media coverage, enough to get people's attention and yield a public health crisis.
 
I'm not asking for a detailed strategy plan or an excerpt of a startup pep-talk.

You gave examples for a reason, no?

You mentioned things that could be leveraged.

This means there are two possibilities:
1.) You do have a high-level, broad understanding of how they could be leveraged

Or

2.) You wanted to be contrarian, so you said a few things that you feel could be, but you'd need to work on thinking of actual reasoning on why those specific things would work uniquely for the profession of pharmacy.

I don't want to imply that you just have a tendency to fall back on a defense mechanism where you say "this isn't worth my time" whenever someone asks you to back up what you say.

Please don't take it that way

Thanks

CENTI,

You have too much time on your hands and you are an annoying person. Please go away. Thank you kindly.
 
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I previously worked as a nurse and I am now a pharmacist. Our profession would benefit greatly from being unionized. The chains want to push metrics on us. Well, we need to push metrics on them! They push, and we need to push back. We need a union rep calling the district supervisor and telling him that he needs to get his "employee satisfaction" scores up.

I'm all for unionization ok? however as a pharmacy manager, I will tell you this:

1) anyone involved in the unionization process will be fired immediately.
2) you will be replaced with less expensive new grads.
3) done.

They are too powerful to fight at this point. great idea, will never fly.
 
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If that's true, then how are there pharmacies that are unionized? Surely you must realize what you said is an exaggeration.
 
I've actually been following one CVS pharmacists' union fight against corporate. They've been negotiating for two years over a new contract. I'd love to see CVS squirm if they went on strike, lmao.

Bargaining Updates.
 
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I think you are looking at this wrong. The pervasive feeling on SDN is that there is an oversupply of pharmacists. A union, could theoretically, increase your demand if enough of the pharmacists band together to work less to move the demand higher. . . . . considering the weeping and nashing of teeth on this forum that doesn't seem likely to me. More likely unions are just another layer of bureaucracy to consume your income and time.

Maybe its my political slant, but most unions serve little purpose other than to sustain themselves as leeches to both companies and the employees.
 
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------------------------------

It's a bit of both. I'm reading a book about systems, and breaking systems right now. I think to be effective at change making, you have to have both #1 and #2.

I don't believe the current sentiment of community pharmacist is sustainable, especially amongst a profession with so much untapped power. There are very few industries where the law is completely on your side, and pharmacy is one of them. One strike or even threat of a strike at scale could disrupt the entire US Healthcare system.

At this point, it's just a matter of organizing (or unionizing in this case) to come up with a plan to leverage pharmacist power (i.e. their licensures) to execute this. Doesn't even have to be big. Can be in one small area in the country before it gets media coverage, enough to get people's attention and yield a public health crisis.
Ohh, I see.
Thanks for the clarification.

I guess you misunderstood my post.

My point was that unified labor in an oversaturated profession/field is impossible.
An unemployed pharmacist has no motivation to join or continue to pay dues to a union.

Therefore maximum number of pharmacist positions available = the maximum effective number of union members = X


The situation that we are approaching, where the total number of licensed pharmacists, Y, is vastly greater than X, than you have a situation where any strike can be easily quashed by employers.
RPh To Go would make a killing.

The only places where it makes sense is rural and ultra rural communities.


That's what I meant, and why I was confused when you made your comment.

Social media and licensing won't change X or Y.

CENTI,

You have too much time on your hands and you are an annoying person. Please go away. Thank you kindly.
I have literally no idea why you're so salty and forum stalking me.

I've actually been following one CVS pharmacists' union fight against corporate. They've been negotiating for two years over a new contract. I'd love to see CVS squirm if they went on strike, lmao.

Bargaining Updates.

Now that is very interesting.
I could be totally wrong if that pays off.

I wonder how much it costs them to train new rphs.

If that's true, then how are there pharmacies that are unionized? Surely you must realize what you said is an exaggeration.

We're talking about change on the societal level.
 
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I've actually been following one CVS pharmacists' union fight against corporate. They've been negotiating for two years over a new contract. I'd love to see CVS squirm if they went on strike, lmao.

Bargaining Updates.

That's actually quite interesting.

What happens in these unions if the two parties can't come to an agreement like what's going on here?

It doesn't sound like CVS is going to budge, can they just let all the pharmacists go and hire nonunion pharmacists instead?

I wonder how long until the union decides to go on strike.

Funny thing about this is we get the don't talk to union people every year. They say it's best for us, ha.
 
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2 years is a long time getting CBA. If they were to strike then I would wait till flu season got really ramped up and hit them in the wallet.
 
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That's actually quite interesting.

What happens in these unions if the two parties can't come to an agreement like what's going on here?

It doesn't sound like CVS is going to budge, can they just let all the pharmacists go and hire nonunion pharmacists instead?

I wonder how long until the union decides to go on strike.

Funny thing about this is we get the don't talk to union people every year. They say it's best for us, ha.

There's a reason for that:

DmLu4kVU8AcaOI_.png


Granted, we are in the top 10%...so an increase in unionization would hurt our 401ks...

Turns out that in order to win at capitalism, you need to own capital. Who would have thought.
 
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Nike told me to give this to you pharmacist.. #JustDoIt.

Also dissapointed in OP for ghosting after riling up the troops.
DmMVEk3WsAACHq1.jpg
 
It's isn't just about metrics, it's about basic dignity. Nobody should have to work 12 hours standing on their feet with no lunch break. Yet, in union stores this just doesn't happen.

You can have strong state labor laws without being in a union. CVS has paid through the nose for meal break violations in California.


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If that's true, then how are there pharmacies that are unionized? Surely you must realize what you said is an exaggeration.

No, it is a state process. Try it in a state without labor laws for pharmacy is what i mean. Which is of course roughly 49 states. ??? get it now? go ahead and try to unionize your chain retail pharmacy....see what corporate thinks....
 
I previously worked as a nurse and I am now a pharmacist. Our profession would benefit greatly from being unionized. The chains want to push metrics on us. Well, we need to push metrics on them! They push, and we need to push back. We need a union rep calling the district supervisor and telling him that he needs to get his "employee satisfaction" scores up.

I hear ya Phar, I really do, but as a Manager at Wally world I can tell you for sure. They are all too powerful to take on. They will strike you down unless you have strong government backing and a total statewide movement. If you even say the word "union" I would probably have you close to termination and/or targeted for it within 3 months. just saying.
 
Nike told me to give this to you pharmacist.. #JustDoIt.

Also dissapointed in OP for ghosting after riling up the troops.
View attachment 239360

Am I the only person who finds it interesting when all these football players are in the off-season, you don't hear about them doing anything to help the injustice?

I'm sure they are doing things on social media but it is just interesting you don't hear about anything in the off-season.

Oh and Kaepernick just got a multimillion dollar contract. I guess everything worked out for him. You know he's keeping every penny.
 
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I hear ya Phar, I really do, but as a Manager at Wally world I can tell you for sure. They are all too powerful to take on. They will strike you down unless you have strong government backing and a total statewide movement. If you even say the word "union" I would probably have you close to termination and/or targeted for it within 3 months. just saying.
Wally is in a unique position. They have had offers to buy their pharmacies ala Targét, and pharmacy isn't a large percentage of their profits. They can bail on the whole thing if the U-word gets any traction. The big two don't have that flexibility.
 
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Wally is in a unique position. They have had offers to buy their pharmacies ala Targét, and pharmacy isn't a large percentage of their profits. They can bail on the whole thing if the U-word gets any traction. The big two don't have that flexibility.

you mean cvs right? 2 offers? i didnt know that. however you are right, they are gearing up for a possible bail. I can tell the way they are restructuring.
 
I don't see what any of this has to do with molecular ionization... OP didn't state the pKa or the solvent pH?
 
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Even if they are able to sub in some temp pharmacists, productivity will go way down. It will also cost them more to hire temps. A strike would mean increased costs and decreased output, which means that it is still a viable deterrent from a business perspective.
 
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I hear ya Phar, I really do, but as a Manager at Wally world I can tell you for sure. They are all too powerful to take on. They will strike you down unless you have strong government backing and a total statewide movement. If you even say the word "union" I would probably have you close to termination and/or targeted for it within 3 months. just saying.
Unions are the last hope for the profession. Have you seen the "CVS suicide rate" thread? People are losing hope. The only chance of improvement is through collective bargaining.
 
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If we unionize and there is temp labor brought in, can I be the thug union member that jumps the scabs in the middle of the night? I'm pretty sure I can beat the living **** out of like 98% of pharmacists.
 
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It would have been smart to unionize when we still had some power in the market. Too many people are desperate for work and in crippling debt. It's hard to expect someone to take a stand when they are on shaky ground.
 
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Anyone ever practice game theory? LoL This is such a no brainer. Unionize, and strike. Pharmacist have nothing to lose, and loads to gain. No one complains about their salary, or their hours (often). Pharmacist simply want to be treated with dignitiy and respect by their leadership, and that is priceless.
 
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If we unionize and there is temp labor brought in, can I be the thug union member that jumps the scabs in the middle of the night? I'm pretty sure I can beat the living **** out of like 98% of pharmacists.

I know you're joking, but violence isn't necessary to reach our goals.
 
Wally is in a unique position. They have had offers to buy their pharmacies ala Targét, and pharmacy isn't a large percentage of their profits. They can bail on the whole thing if the U-word gets any traction. The big two don't have that flexibility.
Pharmacy was a significant portion of my store's profits at target.

They rarely met their sales goals without us.
 
If we unionize and there is temp labor brought in, can I be the thug union member that jumps the scabs in the middle of the night? I'm pretty sure I can beat the living **** out of like 98% of pharmacists.
LOL.

The doughy bodies filling the white coats would feel like bags of Canadian sour cream
 
Pretty obvious if the big companies don't want unions then workers would do better with them. Rite aid told their rph managers to report any talk of unions in the non-union stores to the dm. Union employees were not allowed to transfer to non-union stores.
 
It it much easier to unionize and do it without knowing that a particular employee is thinking about a union. For example, teamsters used to stand outside and hand out flyers but management would watch. Now you can hand out info in social media or regular email and much more difficult to stop or control
 
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Unfortunately a lot of current working pharmacists would still prefer the status quo because they are $200k+ in debt and terrified of having their incomes disappear completely. Earning $80-90k in a 32-hour work week is still better than earning $0 with astronomical debt.

It's a pipe dream but I would rather see something being done about the PharmDs being printed at $200k a piece.
 
Anyone ever practice game theory? LoL This is such a no brainer. Unionize, and strike. Pharmacist have nothing to lose, and loads to gain. No one complains about their salary, or their hours (often). Pharmacist simply want to be treated with dignitiy and respect by their leadership, and that is priceless.

James, I hear you but do you think you're going to get a bunch of women, beta males and Indian/African pharmacists to be brave enough for 1 minute to strike and walk around with a sign? We can't even form one organization to strongly represent us all. The AMA is powerful. APHA not so much. Knowing pharmacists they'll wait for one of their co-workers to walk out and get fired and then cower behind the counter. Maybe we should pay this Kaper whoever to represent us. He can actually make himself useful and draw attention to something that really is a problem. Not a media inspired overblown social justice movement with no end game or goal.
 
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This has been said so many times I'm not sure if it matters, but I think we'll have to tackle where the problem is originating from- oversupply of pharmacists.
We need to change how layman see our profession (i.e. salary, job security, working environment, etc.)
Pharmacy schools need to make a big and clear disclosure on average debt after graduation, rate of meaningful employment, job satisfaction, etc., on their website, interview days, and orientation.
I don't mean to single any schools out, but I came across this and just thought it was a load of BS:
stlcop.edu/admissions/showcase/whypharmacy.html

"Ranked the 5th Best Job (U.S. News & World Report, 2012)"
I'm not sure how this ranking works, but this is exactly why kids are attracted to the profession of pharmacy despite the harsh reality; truth must be told.
"Average starting salary of $120,000"
Pay cut and shorter hours; I don't think this figure is true anymore. Not to mention the post-tax income.

Like others said, pharmacists are oversupplied.
We are readily replaceable but one might have a hard time finding a new employment.
Many of us have a lot to lose due to financial burden and rather not take any risk being replaced.
It's just simple economic rule- supply vs demand.
The supply of pharmacists is far exceeding the demand, giving an upperhand to employers.
The balance needs to be fixed first.

Aside from that, I think gearing the pharmacy regulation in our favor is a better bet.
Theoretically, we outnumber the employers and we all want our working environment to be improved.
 
Unions only benefit the top. If you're on the bottom - SOL
 
This has been said so many times I'm not sure if it matters, but I think we'll have to tackle where the problem is originating from- oversupply of pharmacists.

The supply of pharmacists is far exceeding the demand, giving an upperhand to employers.
The balance needs to be fixed first.

Aside from that, I think gearing the pharmacy regulation in our favor is a better bet.
Theoretically, we outnumber the employers and we all want our working environment to be improved.

The free market is currently regulating this imbalance as we speak. Crippling student loan debt combined with decreasing salaries are already hurting the bottom line for the pharmacy schools. Enrollment is already declining and will likely plummet in the coming years.
 
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I signed up to be in the temp labor pool when one of the pharmacist unions in CA was about to strike.

Got $500 just to sign up and look train on their system for like an hour.

Yeah good luck unionizing with people like me around + new grads ready to pounce. Would be a great opportunity for them.


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The winning move in that case is to sign up for the training and get the bonus. Then, really screw them over by showing up and refusing to cross a picket line.
 
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I signed up to be in the temp labor pool when one of the pharmacist unions in CA was about to strike.

Got $500 just to sign up and look train on their system for like an hour.

Yeah good luck unionizing with people like me around + new grads ready to pounce. Would be a great opportunity for them.


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SCAB!! GET 'EM!

*brandishes bludgeoning weapon*
 
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The winning move in that case is to sign up for the training and get the bonus. Then, really screw them over by showing up and refusing to cross a picket line.

I was actually debating that, but the strike ended. Mostly because I would have had to fly to make myself available for work.


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