IUSM Step 1 Score

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mean: 218. SD: 23

AS far as schools reporting their averages, I have never heard of any school from Harvard to IUSM that has an average of less than 230. Obviously this does not make sense and I think the deans are cooking their books. Thus I take all of these announcements (including from my own school) with a proverbial grain of salt. Plus its not like the NBME cares what your school average is when you sit down and start the thing yourself.
 
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The Buff said:
mean: 218. SD: 23

AS far as schools reporting their averages, I have never heard of any school from Harvard to IUSM that has an average of less than 230. Obviously this does not make sense and I think the deans are cooking their books. Thus I take all of these announcements (including from my own school) with a proverbial grain of salt. Plus its not like the NBME cares what your school average is when you sit down and start the thing yourself.
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Schools with averages below 230 probably just don't release the info. I'm sure my school is well below that average, and consequently it's not freely shared with applicants or students. 😉

Anyway, to the op, why do you think your school has done so well? Is it student quality, or do you think your school's curriculum is somehow involved. If you feel it's the latter, what is your school's curriculum.
 
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Yeah i'm pretty stoked about the score too. I guess this score for IU is the highest it's ever been. Of course, it's hard to stand out in a class that scores this well. Hell the Lafayette campus had the highest average, somewhere in the upper 240's if i heard correctly.

IUSM - are you a 3rd year at IU? If so, priv msg me. I wanna know who this is. 🙂 (I'm also a 3rd yr).
 
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IUSM said:
Our dean reported today that the average Step 1 score for Indiana University School of Medicine for first time test takers b/w May-Aug 2007 (n=273) was 230.3 (s.d. = 19.8, 98% pass rate).

Thats incredible given the number of students we have.
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I remember when I was interviewing at a bunch of schools last fall, every single one claims to have Step 1 avg scores ABOVE the national average... :laugh:
 
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Ice Nine said:
Excellent point. You're going to compete with individuals at your school and others who are interested in your specialty. You can't say, "Hey I suct, but my buddy did awesome resulting in a higher average for my school." Nobody is going to care.



Because I don't believe that it's true. I would find it statistically unlikely that a state school would produce a pool of residency applicants in which nearly half of them are hitting two-digit scores of 95+, particularly when their primary criterion of admission is state residency. I echo Buff's sentiments. I'm guessing that somebody got slipped a Jackson under the table to accidentally type 230 instead of 220.
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bahahah awesome! All very good points.

Being a student at the school, the 30-40 people that i typically talk to (random sample? i dunno) all scored at or above 225. I personally got a 231, and i'm actually quite content with that score. Much better than i thought i did, considering the events of test day for me (For another thread perhaps...)

Anyway - good points ice. According to the medical education committee, the numbers that IUSM quoted are indeed true. *shrug* Make of that what you will, but i would actually believe. 7 people at the Bloomington campus (out of 28) scored at or above 245, with 2 people scoring in the high 250s (which to me is just ridiculous). Unless they're fudging their scores too...I guess we can never really know, huh? 😕
 
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Prana488 said:
bahahah awesome! All very good points.

Being a student at the school, the 30-40 people that i typically talk to (random sample? i dunno) all scored at or above 225. I personally got a 231, and i'm actually quite content with that score. Much better than i thought i did, considering the events of test day for me (For another thread perhaps...)

Anyway - good points ice. According to the medical education committee, the numbers that IUSM quoted are indeed true. *shrug* Make of that what you will, but i would actually believe. 7 people at the Bloomington campus (out of 28) scored at or above 245, with 2 people scoring in the high 250s (which to me is just ridiculous). Unless they're fudging their scores too...I guess we can never really know, huh? 😕
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That's pretty good, but the SDN School of Medicine's average step 1 score makes a 230 look puny.
 
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I also go to IUSM and I have the sheet the dean sent out with me right now. I was suprised by how well our school did. I know a few people who got a score in the 260s. Personally got a 256.

Here is the breakdown for the doubters.

8 - 150-189
12 - 190-199
21 - 200-209
24 - 210-219
55 - 220-229
57 - 230-239
44 - 240-249
42 - 250-259
9 - 260-271

average was 230.3 SD: 19.8 Pass rate: 98.2%

We have the second largest student population (270+), soon to be number 1. I think we did pretty well for being that large.

I think what helps is our recent change to taking shelf exams for everything. I am interested to hear about how other schools did?
 
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I also just got a version of the stat sheet. I'm only a lowly first year at IU but I will say that the stat sheet had individual averages for each campus (IU's students are broken into 9 different campuses amongst the state for those who don't know) and each campus had an average near 230. I'm not sure as to the accuracy of all the data but if they paid someone to make a typo it had to be nine of them instead of 1...I'm just hoping the trend continues for 2 more years
1
 
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CigarTragic said:
I remember when I was interviewing at a bunch of schools last fall, every single one claims to have Step 1 avg scores ABOVE the national average... :laugh:
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Agree with this. Not saying that any specific school does this, but it's awfully easy for schools to claim a good or above average score when the numbers are not publically disseminated to check. I think SDNers at this point, as a group, have heard the "above average" claim at more schools than statistically possible. Which is fine with me -- I like the idea of a world where everyone gets to be above average. But it's not a very realistic world.
 
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Ice Nine said:
Yes, but for the two people who scored 250+, there were also a couple of people who didn't pass according to the mentioned stats. So among those few students, the average was about 215.

Self-reporting of scores 👎

I should point out that I mean no disrespect to the Hoosiers out there. I just don't see this as a statistcally feasible scenario.
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Really, you think the dean of IU Med School is just making up numbers? And that whole distribution that just got posted is made up?
 
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thehoosier said:
Really, you think the dean of IU Med School is just making up numbers? And that whole distribution that just got posted is made up?
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For all we know, this "data' was a poll posted on some IU website and students self-reported. No, I don't think the dean is going to pull numbers out of thin air, but there's a lot of steps between him and actual scores. I don't think the numbers he was quoting were signed sealed and notarized by the ACGME.
 
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These are not self reported numbers. We got official school score sheets when this was released. I personally spoke with the director of Academic Records-Medical Student Affairs, when he emailed me my score. He told me that not all the scores were in but we had the highest scores ever at IU.

We rank 44 in usnews, I really want to know how well we did compared to other schools. Anyone know the averages at other places?
 
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I didn't think the nbme released detailed score reports to schools anymore, so any school stats were based off of student self reporting to the school. Is this no longer the case?

Edit: Guess that's not the case.
 
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the nat'l average maybe a 218-219, but what's the US medical student average? The 218-219 number presumably includes non-allopathic MD student which may drag the average down a bit.
 
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IHeartNerds said:
For all we know, this "data' was a poll posted on some IU website and students self-reported. No, I don't think the dean is going to pull numbers out of thin air, but there's a lot of steps between him and actual scores. I don't think the numbers he was quoting were signed sealed and notarized by the ACGME.
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The NBME sends very specific test reports and breakdowns to any med school that have at least 10 (I think that was the number) people taking the boards.

To the OP: wow, congratulations! What does your school help you do to prepare for the boards? Do your profs give you board review? How much time off do you have to study?
 
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Ice Nine said:
Okay, I'll temporarily withdraw my charge of shenanigans.

Answer me some questions, though, since your scores are awesome...

Do you use ABC grades for the preclinical years or some permutation of H/P/F?

Curriculum--PBL, systems-based, traditional--please comment

Lecture--attendance required?

Briefly describe the clinical experience that you are exposed to at Indiana.
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I.U.s a little different then most schools because students are spread out among different campuses throughout the state for the first 2 years.

All of the centers use a grading system of honors/high pass/pass/fail. Additionally there is a competency based curriculum but it doesn't seem to be all that important until the clinical years.

The curriculum's actually differ from center to center i.e. the IU northwest campus uses all PBL with no lecturing (225.2 USMLE average) while most of the other centers use a combination of PBL and traditional (leaning towards traditional)

Lecture attedance is not required at the Indiapolis campus (234.5) and that is where about half of the students (130-150 students) do their pre-clinical years. At most of the other centers attendance is required but the class size is much smaller (around 13-20)

As far as the clinical experience for the first 2 years it also differs from campus to campus. At my particular campus, we are expected to leave with about 200 hours of clinical experience working with various physicians that we are assigned to. Additionally we have mandatory volunteering (i know it doesnt make sense) at a few free clinics. I have heard that the indianapolis campus does not get as much clinical experience as the other centers but I do not know if it is true.
 
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As a midwestern state school, IUSM's performance this year is really impressive (no offense to being in the midwest, I'm at a midwestern DO program).

Someone asked about what the national average for US students was... I thought this might help. According the the NRMP, the national average for matched US Seniors was a 221 (x 13,212 students) while 211 was the unmatched average (x 1,144 students). Altogether, thats an average of 220.2 for the class of 2007.

Congratulations, guys! 👍
 
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Terpskins99 said:
Someone asked about what the national average for US students was... I thought this might help. According the the NRMP, the national average for matched US Seniors was a 221 (x 13,212 students) while 211 was the unmatched average (x 1,144 students). Altogether, thats an average of 220.2 for the class of 2007.
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I think when people are asking averages, they are asking about national averages of US test-takers, the most current of which scores generally are received over a year before the match. So your match related data would actually be for the preceding year's seniors not the current ones. Also match related numbers incorporate non-first time taker data, and only would include folks who pass (as matching/nonmatching is not an option until you get past that hurdle), so those numbers are necessarilly higher. The prior poster's 218 is closer to the number I have heard -- I believe it is historically in the teen (214-218) range.
 
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No I have no idea what the average step 1 scores are. I'm just hoping to do well when it comes. I know they beat all the other cali schools (for teh past 10 years) on some special california only clinical skills test. Not sure if it means anything, but they love to tell us, so I'm just relaying that.
 
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Neat, I love the Loma Linda area, and all of my Fathers classmates loved the school and surroundings. Hopefully, i can go back in a couple of years🙂
 
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Ice Nine said:
Thanks for this post. From what I can tell, it seems like students with similar backgrounds before med school (since it's a state school) are essentially different treatment groups. To me it looks like lack of required attendance and decreased PBL are indicators of significantly better USMLE I scores. 👍

So much for the :bullcrap: that I've heard regarding the effectiveness of PBL and required attendance.
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You're drawing conclusions based on this alone? WTF? I doubt, for example, Cornell Weill, a pretty much all-PBL school has low board scores. I'm not that much of a fan of PBL in the first place, but your conclusion based on this point is what's BS. First off, correlation is not causation, and second, the correlation is pretty weak in this case. As for the differences between the campuses, perhaps there are different admission standards for each campus correlating with the board scores. Mandatory attendance, maybe, I can see... if you don't go to class, you're forced to develop your own discipline, so that may be a factor -- of course the percentage of people in the class who actually develop that discipline might vary, etc.

There are so many other factors that have a much higher probability of affecting the board scores, such as administration of shelf exams, "teaching to the boards", a higher amount of time off to study before the boards, school-given practice exams, etc., any/none of which might be relevant here. Of course you are not a medical student so I suppose it's somewhat understandable that you not consider anything else. First you call "shenanigans" and now this?

Also, there are many other schools which do not report their scores... Penn and Baylor are reported to have averages in the 230's as well. Reportedly, integration of subject material between traditional disciplines was cited as one of the factors that resulted in higher board scores. There are plenty of documents available from the AAMC which should shed more light for you on medical school curriculum / the USMLE.
 
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Pbl sucks, that's the bottom line.

anon-y-mouse said:
You're drawing conclusions based on this alone? WTF? I doubt, for example, Cornell Weill, a pretty much all-PBL school has low board scores. I'm not that much of a fan of PBL in the first place, but your conclusion based on this point is what's BS. First off, correlation is not causation, and second, the correlation is pretty weak in this case. As for the differences between the campuses, perhaps there are different admission standards for each campus correlating with the board scores. Mandatory attendance, maybe, I can see... if you don't go to class, you're forced to develop your own discipline, so that may be a factor -- of course the percentage of people in the class who actually develop that discipline might vary, etc.

There are so many other factors that have a much higher probability of affecting the board scores, such as administration of shelf exams, "teaching to the boards", a higher amount of time off to study before the boards, school-given practice exams, etc., any/none of which might be relevant here. Of course you are not a medical student so I suppose it's somewhat understandable that you not consider anything else. First you call "shenanigans" and now this?

Also, there are many other schools which do not report their scores... Penn and Baylor are reported to have averages in the 230's as well. Reportedly, integration of subject material between traditional disciplines was cited as one of the factors that resulted in higher board scores. There are plenty of documents available from the AAMC which should shed more light for you on medical school curriculum / the USMLE.
Click to expand...
 
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Ice Nine said:
To me it looks like lack of required attendance and decreased PBL are indicators of significantly better USMLE I scores. 👍

So much for the :bullcrap: that I've heard regarding the effectiveness of PBL and required attendance.
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I think there have been schools whose averages/pass rates have supposedly gone up after switching to PBL and schools whose averages/pass rates have gone down. So not much science to support your statement. How the material is taught is more or less a non-factor so long as the material is taught. If there was one methodology that clearly worked better, everyone would use it. The majority of med schools currently do not require attendance so that really is not going to upset the average. I still think, more than any other factor, the work ethic of the folks enrolled by admissions is going to dictate board scores. This battle is won/lost in the adcom meetings.
 
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Ice Nine said:
Thanks for this post. From what I can tell, it seems like students with similar backgrounds before med school (since it's a state school) are essentially different treatment groups. To me it looks like lack of required attendance and decreased PBL are indicators of significantly better USMLE I scores. 👍

So much for the :bullcrap: that I've heard regarding the effectiveness of PBL and required attendance.
Click to expand...

Rumor has it that cornell's board scores are actually very good (235+ average).
 
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blz said:
who cares.
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2nded. Only an idiot would think that a high step 1 average is a marker of a good medical school or a good medical student.

Example: I'm a ***** from hollywood upstairs medical college who can't find the cervix, and I crush Harvard's average.
 
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Taliesinrk said:
I'd like to match into my #1 choice.. therefore, I care.
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You don't get to match based on how your school does, just on how you personally do. If one school actually had a method of getting folks higher scores, many other schools would duplicate it. This isn't really going on -- you don't see the lower tier schools revamping to be more like IUSM. So more likely if such a school is doing better it has more to do with the students admitted than the school. In which case you are going to get what you are going to get regardless of where you go, based on your effort, aptitude and work ethic.
 
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Texas Tech just released ours.

Year, our pass rate, national pass rate, our mean, national mean
2005, 82%, 93%, 206, 217
2006, 85%, 93%, 208, 218
2007, 91%, TBA, 215, TBA

Still below average, but much better then in the past. They did revamp the cirriculum due to low board scores.

Its no 230. But much better then before.
 
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Law2Doc said:
it. This isn't really going on -- you don't see the lower tier schools revamping to be more like IUSM.
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I have no idea where Law2Doc gets his information. TTU is a direct example to the opposite.

Do you go to a US MD school Law2Doc?

What year in medical school are you?
 
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Law2Doc said:
Can you really cite to something which indicates that TTU is revamping using IUSM as a model? If so, I'd be curious to see.
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Can you even cite if you are a medical student in a US allopathic school? If so, I'd be curious to see.

There were likely many factors that entered into the redesign of our curriculum , and I'm only a student so I don't know them all. But I'm certain modeling curriculum after successful schools was one of them.
 
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viostorm said:
But I'm certain modeling curriculum after successful schools was one of them.
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I'd find it hard to be "certain" a specific school was used as the model unless your school actually said so, and harder still to know what your school deemed a comparatively "successful school" (step 1 may be but one criteria for revamping -- as you suggested, "many factors" go into redesigning a curriculum).
 
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Law2Doc said:
I'd find it hard to be "certain" a specific school was used as the model unless your school actually said so, and harder still to know what your school deemed a comparatively "successful school" (step 1 may be but one criteria for revamping -- as you suggested, "many factors" go into redesigning a curriculum).
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Thanks, you have answered my question on if you are a US allopathic student. I have suspected for a while because some of your answers are so improbable there is no way you could actually be in medical school.

For the good of the forum stop giving people advice for Step I until you are qualified to give it.
 
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viostorm said:
Thanks, you have answered my question on if you are a US allopathic student. I have suspected for a while because some of your answers are so improbable there is no way you could actually be in medical school.

For the good of the forum stop giving people advice for Step I until you are qualified to give it.
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Ok, you got me.🙄
Chill out. No one is obligated to disclose personal info on this board. People may take or not take advice as they see fit.
 
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DoctaJay said:
I don't know what they are feeding you guys at IU but that is amazing! I know here at LLU we had a 100% pass rate about 3 years ago.
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But we haven't come close since then. We had double-digit failures each of the last 2 years. And their solution to this is to require attendance at all lab activities (although they are revamping the pharm course, a step in the right direction).
 
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The key to having a class average that high is being in Indiana. There is nothing to do but study. Secondly, everyone is desperate to get the hell out of there so they don't want to get stuck with an indiana residency so they start studying for boards in november...12 hours/ day.
 
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indo said:
The key to having a class average that high is being in Indiana. There is nothing to do but study. Secondly, everyone is desperate to get the hell out of there so they don't want to get stuck with an indiana residency so they start studying for boards in november...12 hours/ day.
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But you could say the same thing about Oklahoma, and our board scores are still not so hot. 😉

So for those of you at schools who have changed their curriculum to improve board scores, can you describe the changes?
 
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Doctor Bagel said:
But you could say the same thing about Oklahoma, and our board scores are still not so hot. 😉

So for those of you at schools who have changed their curriculum to improve board scores, can you describe the changes?
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Hah, touche! Maybe the towns that the med schools are in in Indiana are towns that don't allow alcohol or dancing like the town on Footloose. This leaves the students with only studying, playing chicken with tractors, and doing gymnastics in old barns.
 
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