IVAN heading for St. Matthews, Grand Cayman

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Yikes!

😱

I hope everyone there has taken shelter by now. Many students have gotten to Miami already, thankfully.

Let's keep our eyes on this latest development, and wish the best for our friends and colleagues at St. Matt's!

For more info:

http://www.stmatthews.edu/hurricane.html

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HOLY CRAP! Look at this...

St. Matthew?s University School of Medicine has been given permission by the state of Maine to resume its Fall semester at St. Matthew?s facilities in Windham, Maine. Thus, all students attending the Grand Cayman campus will need to make plans to travel to Portland, Maine (approximately 15 miles from the Windham campus) arriving this Monday the 20th of September, 2004. Our facilities in Windham, Maine have an excellent medical library and classroom and laboratory space.

http://www.stmatthews.edu/hurricane.html

This is, of course, only temporary and just for this Fall semester, but they are actually going to be teaching medical school in the U.S. This is a non-LCME school, mind you.

This is unprecedented!

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[nabeya]

SMU did it once in 2001 in Orlando during a similiar situation.

HOLY CRAP! Look at this...



http://www.stmatthews.edu/hurricane.html

This is, of course, only temporary and just for this Fall semester, but they are actually going to be teaching medical school in the U.S. This is a non-LCME school, mind you.

This is unprecedented!

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SMU did it once in 2001 in Orlando during a similiar situation.

Prove it.

(And I'm not talking about clinical courses like the 5th semester that Ross offers in Miami. Totally different concept.)

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[Swaydaa]

I do remember a few St. matthews students talking about Going to Florida during a storm for one semester back during that time frame. Not sure if it's true or not?

 

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I do remember a few St. matthews students talking about Going to Florida during a storm for one semester back during that time frame. Not sure if it's true or not?

When the school was still in Belize? Or, after it moved to Grand Cayman?

Nonetheless, the fact that the State of Maine granted them approval to teach at their main campus... even temporarily... that seems very unusual (and lucky) to me. And the school definitely got a big break here. Otherwise, as is the case and part of the risk when going off-shore, if something like this happens you can get screwed and have to sit out for a semester and hope the school rebuilds as promised. It's incredibly cool that Maine is letting them continue there.

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[rokshana]

When the school was still in Belize? Or, after it moved to Grand Cayman?

Nonetheless, the fact that the State of Maine granted them approval to teach at their main campus... even temporarily... that seems very unusual (and lucky) to me. And the school definitely got a big break here. Otherwise, as is the case and part of the risk when going off-shore, if something like this happens you can get screwed and have to sit out for a semester and hope the school rebuilds as promised. It's incredibly cool that Maine is letting them continue there.

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Off-shore schools holding classes temporarily in the US is not that uncommon, AUC did it when Monserat's volcano blew, SGU did it after the 1983 invasion(or intervention as the Grenadians call it)- classes were at Rutgers- and we're doing it again because the infrastructure on the island is such that it cannot handle 2000+ students at the moment. But honestly I think it would be difficult for a school in the state's to conduct classes if a Cat 4 or 5 hurricane blew through it(I was at EVMS in Virginia as a grad student when a Cat 2 hurricane blew through and school was canceled for a week- trust me a cat 4 is a whole different story- ask the people in Mobile and Pensacola- I'm sure they're still reeling. We are fortunate in the states that help can come from other states, but imagine if a hurricane hit Hawaii- getting help out there is not so easy!!(and the probability that a hurricane could hit Hawaii is probably the same as one hitting Grenada- 2 in 100 years!- suppose to be outside of the hurricane belt- people send their boats to be drydocked in grenada to get them out of the path of hurricanes!!)
So don't think it could happen here- any school in a hurricane-prone area could lose weeks of time.

 

[joethestuff]

I dont get it: How can Carib schools get around LCME accreditation when holding classes in the US??? Whats the point of even having off-shore schools if you can teach classes in the US???

 

[Apollyon]

I dont get it: How can Carib schools get around LCME accreditation when holding classes in the US??? Whats the point of even having off-shore schools if you can teach classes in the US???

Because it's "unusual and uncommon", and not a regular occurrence, and, in the big picture of things, administrators are a lot more collegial than students and applicants. If you haven't noticed, where things have happened before, universities have been associated (+/- having a med school attached), so it's not "under the table". Moreover, if the LCME/AMA/whomever is letting them (because it is "unusual and uncommon", and temporary), then no one is "getting around" anything.

 

[joethestuff]

I just cant believe LCME is standing by and letting them do this.

I thought they would scream bloody hell that an unaccredited off-shore school is teaching any part of its didactic curriculum on US soil. It would appear to undermine everything they are trying to do.

Afterall, why doesn't an off-shore school just set up shop in the US and teach 4 of 5 semesters in the US??? (I think Ross tried this scheme a few years ago in Wyoming and was a no-go for some reason).

As for schools admns being collegial--Spare me! $$$ talks and many, many struggling private schools would be more than happy to partner with unaccredited foreign schools if they could get away with it. Thats why we have accrediting agencies that essentially regulate them!

 

[rokshana]

I just cant believe LCME is standing by and letting them do this.

I thought they would scream bloody hell that an unaccredited off-shore school is teaching any part of its didactic curriculum on US soil. It would appear to undermine everything they are trying to do.

Afterall, why doesn't an off-shore school just set up shop in the US and teach 4 of 5 semesters in the US??? (I think Ross tried this scheme a few years ago in Wyoming and was a no-go for some reason).

As for schools admns being collegial--Spare me! $$$ talks and many, many struggling private schools would be more than happy to partner with unaccredited foreign schools if they could get away with it. Thats why we have accrediting agencies that essentially regulate them!

Evidently many schools and the LCME are more compassionate and charitable than you.

 

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Evidently many schools and the LCME are more compassionate and charitable than you.

Well, I totally agree with joethestuff's post. This has less to do with compassion and more to do with economics. I don't think the point of his post was to point out how mean the big, bad U.S. medical education system is, but to underscore - based on the long history with groups such as COGME - how threatened the LCME "cartel" is about poaching on U.S. soil.

Ross did try to pull this off a few years ago in Wyoming, but on a more permanent basis. They were all set to go, but at the 11th hour the Wyoming legislature backed down. They realized the larger ramifications of allowing a for profit, non-LCME school setting up shop in the U.S. It would have effectively made the LCME void, and would have presented a whole bunch of interesting new issues... a foreign medical school on U.S. soil that caters mostly to U.S. students in the first place... just think about that for a moment.

No. I don't think this ultimately has anything to do with compassion. It's about protectionism. Trust me that if SGU and St. Matt's don't rebuild their campuses and get their students back to the islands but quick, this present "compassion" won't last long.

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[Apollyon]

No. I don't think this ultimately has anything to do with compassion. It's about protectionism. Trust me that if SGU and St. Matt's don't rebuild their campuses and get their students back to the islands but quick, this present "compassion" won't last long.

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How is it protectionism? Why don't they just say, "screw you"? If you know (as I know you do) anything about the financials of Caribbean schools, everything is negotiated, and there is no way they would/could agree on a price so quickly. There is an element of professionalism. You are right, though - it is only temporary, but that is what I said.

And, "joethestuff" - you need to relax, and realize that not everyone is as pragmatic and single-minded as you. Ipso facto, it happened in the past, and is happening now. Whereas you see the end of medical civilization as we know it in the US, it just hasn't and isn't happening. The LCME isn't standing by and letting it happen - I guarantee you that it is sanctioning it on a temporary and irregular basis (if you can understand this, it makes sense - it's not permanent, and there are extraordinary circumstances - and, recall that US schools are in the WHO directory of medical schools, just like the Caribbean schools, so it makes them look good to all the other nations).

If you are so passionate, become involved in politics; it is there to be had, throught the AMA, AMSA, LCME, AAMC, professional societies - if you want to campaign against FMG's, though, be ready for a strong lobby opposing you.

 

[rokshana]

How is it protectionism? Why don't they just say, "screw you"? If you know (as I know you do) anything about the financials of Caribbean schools, everything is negotiated, and there is no way they would/could agree on a price so quickly. There is an element of professionalism. You are right, though - it is only temporary, but that is what I said.

And, "joethestuff" - you need to relax, and realize that not everyone is as pragmatic and single-minded as you. Ipso facto, it happened in the past, and is happening now. Whereas you see the end of medical civilization as we know it in the US, it just hasn't and isn't happening. The LCME isn't standing by and letting it happen - I guarantee you that it is sanctioning it on a temporary and irregular basis (if you can understand this, it makes sense - it's not permanent, and there are extraordinary circumstances - and, recall that US schools are in the WHO directory of medical schools, just like the Caribbean schools, so it makes them look good to all the other nations).

If you are so passionate, become involved in politics; it is there to be had, throught the AMA, AMSA, LCME, AAMC, professional societies - if you want to campaign against FMG's, though, be ready for a strong lobby opposing you.

Nicely said.

 

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The LCME isn't standing by and letting it happen - I guarantee you that it is sanctioning it on a temporary and irregular basis (if you can understand this, it makes sense - it's not permanent, and there are extraordinary circumstances - and, recall that US schools are in the WHO directory of medical schools, just like the Caribbean schools, so it makes them look good to all the other nations).

I wouldn't be so hasty to "guarantee" this. I'd bet the LCME has either no say in these goings-on or is in no way involved at present. Remember, the LCME has little input or say in Osteopathic medical education in the U.S., and certainly does not accredit the osteo schools. These students are rotating at NYCOM, not Albert Einstein.

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