JD student seeking advice

[Numark333]

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First thanks so much to everyone on these forums, I have been lurking for awhile and it is a really helpful place. I was hoping to explain my situation and get any advice out there, thanks.

Back when I was a senior in undergrad (2012), I had surgery and had to see a ton of doctors and knew then I wanted to be a doctor, but I had taken zero science classes and it was too late. I decided I wanted to get a law degree as I had a scholarship offer and it was always something I felt would be good to have as a tool in the back pocket. Fast forward now and I'm close to wrapping up another year in my jd degree and have only one to go (graduating in 2017 spring).

My plan is to begin taking the med school req classes this summer. I want to take a few basic ones this summer at a community college, and then over the course of my last year take two classes each semester on the undergrad campus. Then if I need anymore classes, I'll take them at the undergrad campus post-jd graduation. Then I will practice law for a year while I take the MCAT and get my ducks in order.

I'll be 26 at the time of my applications, 27 for enrollment. My undergrad gpa was 3.72. I'm in the top 15% of a top 20 law school, but closer to 20 than 15 haha. My law concentration is in health law and I'm going to start volunteering in a health care setting next spring.

Does this sound like an okay plan? Any pros or cons? Potential obstacles? Thanks gang 🙂

 

[esob]

The only flaw I see in your plan is that unless you find a firm that will hire you part time (and can live off part time salary) the hours you work as an entry level lawyer will make it extremely difficult to do anything outside of work.

 

[Apollo1]

1. Schools could view you trying to jump ship, as the legal market has been saturated for several years now and you have no experience as an attorney. You'll need a clear and concise explanation as to "why medicine."

2. Tack on shadowing to the volunteering as well. It's one thing to be cleaning a waiting area/pushing wheelchairs around, and another to even barely see what an attending does day-to-day.

3. Plan on taking more than the basic necessities, re: classwork. Even with your uGPA, more applicants have additional coursework under their belts. No reason to take on a handicap.

4. GW law?

 

[GreenDuck12]

Check the first two pages of the non-trad forum. We have had three or four lawyers in similar situations post and receive extensive advice

 

[DrESQ]

Hey there, @Numark333. Fellow lawyer here, focused on health law, currently practicing health law. I came to this forum for advice, too and everyone has been great. So I'll offer some advice based on what others have told me.

First question I have is whether or not you're taking the bar. If you are, you can forget about simultaneously taking your pre-reqs. The bar will consume your entire summer. I have to guess that you're at least considering taking the bar if you plan on practicing law for a year, because it's pretty hard to find decent paying law jobs without bar admission. Sure, you could do a J.D. preferred job, but you'll likely make less (not sure if that matters to you or not).

Next, you haven't mentioned anything about shadowing or volunteering. Have you done this? If not, you're going to need to add that to your plan. Based on everything you've mentioned here, it sounds like your schedule is pretty tight. Also, if you're shadowing and/or volunteering while practicing law AND studying for the MCAT, I can imagine that that will be unnecessarily difficult. Perhaps try shadowing and volunteering now while you still have a year to go?

Don't underestimate the difficulty of studying for the MCAT while working, especially if you get a traditional law job. Many law jobs are not straight 9-5 and will require you to come in early/leave late depending on work load, which can compromise MCAT studying. Of course you should also at least be mindful of the prospect of taking the MCAT more than once (not saying this will happen! You might ace it, but it's always a possibility).

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, adcoms might be leery of you jumping ship on law so quickly. I've been told this countless times on here. Everyone knows the legal market wasn't doing great for awhile, so adcoms are on high alert for career changers from law. You may be seen as dispassionate, uninterested, and unable to really commit to one thing if you don't at least try law for awhile (unless you have a good explanation for doing things the way you did them).

Not sure whether or not pre-reqs at CC will be an issue. Some people on here say yes, others say no. Some schools don't allow online/CC pre-reqs so be sure to check that with the schools you're interested in.

Edited to add: I've been told more than once that med school isn't going anywhere. It will be there when you finish your JD, and it will be there for many, many years after you finish your JD. Spend the time to do everything right and give yourself the best shot at admission. Don't rush your app cycle.

Best of luck!

 

[Numark333]

Thanks everyone for the advice. That was helpful! I'll look into shadowing in addition to volunteering. And yes I'll be taking the bar.

Yea the downside I hear most often is looking disinterested, unsure, or jumping ship. Since that's not the case for me, I hope honesty will get me out of that one. This is something I'm going to start working on now during my Jd, something Iv wanted to to do, and me getting a JD degree has been more of something I wanted to get since I had an opportunity to get one and I really value understanding the law. And while the legal market sucks, I don't think I'll find myself in that boat thankfully. I'll most likely clerk for a judge or work at a smaller law firm without much issue.

 

[deleted731525]

I was a law student who took a leave of absence after 1 semester(with mediocre grades too), and it didnt come up at all in my one interview(I applied late, so I only applied to a few schools that I thought I had a great shot at, so I wont be a reapplicant at most schools if I have to apply next cycle) so far. I have a few more scheduled so I'll let you know if it comes up then. Knowing other career changers I dont think it is as big of a deal as people make on this forum as long as you have a reason outside of money/career security to make the switch. Besides either way you play it, it can be worked against you. If you apply soon after graduating some might argue you didnt give law a chance, if you apply after a few years of practice others might wonder if you couldnt hack the actual practice of law long term and how you would do in an equally(if not more so) demanding profession. Also worth consideration is the fact that this is your life, do what you think is best because the adcoms are probably going to question your path either way. If they ask just be honest and have a good reason for why medicine. I know for me I would feel pretty comfortable in saying that the expense of 2.5 more years of law school wasnt worth the benefits it may have provided in my medical school application, given that I knew(especially after my leave of absence) that I wanted to pursue something science related even if med school didnt work out.

 

[Seattle Mariners Fan]

If you have the money or access to financing, you could finish the prereqs in one calendar year: accelerated chem in the summer, ochem/physics/bio i in the fall and ii in the spring, biochem in the summer.

You'll have no life whatsoever, but it can be done

 

[DrESQ]

If you have the money or access to financing, you could finish the prereqs in one calendar year: accelerated chem in the summer, ochem/physics/bio i in the fall and ii in the spring, biochem in the summer.

You'll have no life whatsoever, but it can be done

I'm not sure if OP is planning to take the July bar after he graduates (the bar is only offered in July and February), but if so, pre-req classes while doing bar study is pretty much out of the question.

 

[Germanicus89]

@Law2Doc might have some good advice.

 

[Law2Doc]

I basically agree with DrESQ on this one. First, jumping to prep for another advanced degree while still in the midst of the first one looks flighty. Better to give law a shot before signaling that you are ready to jump ship, or there better be a pretty compelling reason for the change in course. Second, you are supposed to do your due diligence and look BEFORE you leap so do shadowing and volunteering for a LONG while BEFORE starting to take courses or do mcat prep. 20 year old college kids get to be poorly thought out, but you don't. Third, have a real strong story for why medicine, why now, why not try law first. Having had surgery and experiences as a patient isn't enough -- you NEED exposure to the other side. And you have to be drawn to medicine in some concrete way, not perceived as running from the law or a bad market. Next, you are still young so don't try to rush these things. Finish one training before you contemplate the next. Looks better to Adcoms anyway. I strongly disagree with the prior poster who said that even if you have a few years of legal practice Adcoms are going to second guess your career change -- honestly several years is objectively long enough to assess most careers, do the story is MUCH more plausible. Finally, avoid community college courses if there's another option.

In short, you can get to where you want but shouldn't do the timeframe you are describing. Really look before you leap and maybe give law a try first. Medicine isn't for everyone and your decisions look objectively better if you don't look like you are jumping from career to career on a whim. So yeah, I hate your plan...

 

[Numark333]

That's the first I have heard that delaying pursuing anything medical and starting a career first would make me look flighty. That sounds counterintuitive. Wouldn't showing I'm on the path early be the best?

Wouldn't good grades, good MCAT, and a personal statement explaining Iv wanted to do this for a awhile be good enough to avoid delaying what I want to do for years?

And thanks as always, very helpful!

 

[Law2Doc]

That's the first I have heard that delaying pursuing anything medical and starting a career first would make me look flighty. That sounds counterintuitive. Wouldn't showing I'm on the path early be the best?

Wouldn't good grades, good MCAT, and a personal statement explaining Iv wanted to do this for a awhile be good enough to avoid delaying what I want to do for years?

And thanks as always, very helpful!

Nope. Once you enrolled in law school you made the "I always wanted to be a doctor" story seem extremely insincere. Now trying law and after soul searching deciding medicine is a better fit is the more plausible back story.

 

[DrESQ]

That's the first I have heard that delaying pursuing anything medical and starting a career first would make me look flighty. That sounds counterintuitive. Wouldn't showing I'm on the path early be the best?

Wouldn't good grades, good MCAT, and a personal statement explaining Iv wanted to do this for a awhile be good enough to avoid delaying what I want to do for years?

And thanks as always, very helpful!

In addition to Law2Doc's thoughts, I'd add that even if, and I mean IF adcoms didn't question the super quick jump without even TRYING law, you may be seen as one of those perennial students who just rack up degrees because they don't have a real direction or just lack the desire to be out in the workforce. Neither the ship jumper nor the perennial student is a good look. Sure, there's going to be a school somewhere that maybe doesn't care too much about this as long as you have decent numbers and a checkbook, but wouldn't you rather give yourself a really good shot at the program of your choice?

FWIW, I was in a similar position as you. After only practicing law for a few months I was like hey, I want out and I want to go to medicine since I'm not exactly happy with law even though I landed my desired practice area straight out of school. But talking to docs and many of the wise folks here I've realized that the med school app process is absolutely a marathon and shouldn't be treated as a sprint. Since you haven't done shadowing yet, I'd highly recommend doing a bunch of that in different areas so you can see all aspects of medicine not just the cool surgical stuff.

If you get out of school, pass the bar, work for even 2-3 years instead of 1, it will give you more time to shadow, volunteer, increase your ECs, and show adcoms that you gave law a sincere effort and didn't just do it on a whim. Even if you did do law on a whim and figured it would be a nice thing to have, it still looks better and more thoroughly planned if you space your timeframe out.

 

[gracie369]

You could make a successful transition with a good gpa and mcat score but don't let your personal statement and interview sink the ship. There will be really right answers and really wrong answers for you to give.

The surgeons made a distinct impression on you which got you interested in medicine. They will ask you why didn't you just start the prerequisites after graduation. Do not say it was too late like you did in your first post because that's not really true. I would say that you were on track for the JD degree and could not pass up a full? scholarship. Your focus in law school was healthcare policy and you hope to apply this interest/skill set after residency. I don't think anyone would fault you for getting a free ride? to law school. If you didn't have the scholarship then I may have some concern and some further questions.

Do not in any capacity ever mention that you would like to go the MD route because of the poor job market. I would end the interview right there.

Think twice about taking prerequisites at a CC. Some schools accept them some don't. You can bet your competition will have all classes from a university.

It will be very difficult to take two science classes during the summer unless you're taking the 101 survey courses just to get some experience. Do not take for instance Gen chem 1 as you could forget the info years later when you take part 2. You will also have to fit the Bar exam in there as well. Personally, I would wait to take any science classes until law school was done. I would opt for shadowing, extracurriculars, etc during that summer. Maybe work in some capacity with healthcare law. This would be a chance for you to help your med school application stand out.

I would recommend getting together with someone that can help you make good decisions about how to structure your approach to med school. It's not just grades but you need a good strategy with each step of the road.

 

[Numark333]

Any advice on who to seek out for help putting together a plan?

 

[Law2Doc]

You could make a successful transition with a good gpa and mcat score but don't let your personal statement and interview sink the ship. There will be really right answers and really wrong answers for you to give.

The surgeons made a distinct impression on you which got you interested in medicine. They will ask you why didn't you just start the prerequisites after graduation. Do not say it was too late like you did in your first post because that's not really true. I would say that you were on track for the JD degree and could not pass up a full? scholarship. Your focus in law school was healthcare policy and you hope to apply this interest/skill set after residency. I don't think anyone would fault you for getting a free ride? to law school. If you didn't have the scholarship then I may have some concern and some further questions.

Do not in any capacity ever mention that you would like to go the MD route because of the poor job market. I would end the interview right there.

Think twice about taking prerequisites at a CC. Some schools accept them some don't. You can bet your competition will have all classes from a university.

It will be very difficult to take two science classes during the summer unless you're taking the 101 survey courses just to get some experience. Do not take for instance Gen chem 1 as you could forget the info years later when you take part 2. You will also have to fit the Bar exam in there as well. Personally, I would wait to take any science classes until law school was done. I would opt for shadowing, extracurriculars, etc during that summer. Maybe work in some capacity with healthcare law. This would be a chance for you to help your med school application stand out.

I would recommend getting together with someone that can help you make good decisions about how to structure your approach to med school. It's not just grades but you need a good strategy with each step of the road.

Um, if you supposedly "always wanted to be a doctor" going to law school because you had a "full scholarship" doesn't fly. It sounds bogus. Sort of like hating spinach but eating a big plate of it because someone gave it to you free. Which is why some of us are saying the "tried law and changed my mind after giving it a fair shake" story plays out better.

 

[gracie369]

Um, if you supposedly "always wanted to be a doctor" going to law school because you had a "full scholarship" doesn't fly. It sounds bogus. Sort of like hating spinach but eating a big plate of it because someone gave it to you free. Which is why some of us are saying the "tried law and changed my mind after giving it a fair shake" story plays out better.

100% agree that OP should not use the "always" spiel. This implies interest since childhood. I don't remember that being said. He initially got interested in medicine during his senior year of UG. If he spent his entire UG preparing for law school it might not be the best decision to abandon a full scholarship just because his surgery experience was positive.

The "tried law" would not fly with me if OP starts his med school prerequisites during the summer of 3rd yr law school as he spoke about. If he indeed does practice law for a few years and then decides to start the prerequisites I would be more apt to believe this strategy.

If I managed OPs career starting now he could start the prerequisites right out of law school or work for a few. I could sell either provided the gpa and mcat scores are good.

OP it wouldn't hurt meeting with a med school professor that understands the admissions process really well. Take a list of questions and an initial strategy with you.

 

[Numark333]

Hey I'm all for hearing the best story to tell to get in. It helps. In my case, like I said, I started having thoughts of being a doctor in senior year of undergrad, but didn't have the science classes and it was too late to get them during undergrad. There was no way for me to go and take classes afterward financially and I worked instead, and took a full scholarship to law school. I never said I walkways wanted to be a doctor, I think those people are far and few between. I now see an opportunity to try and get the prereqs done over the next few years. I don't see why it sounds like such a bogus story? But that's where I need advice like you'v given if anything will cause major issues for me.

It would stink to have to intentionally practice law for several additions years to pretend to try that and don't like it (I actually enjoy law and I'm sure I'll enjoy my job) instead of getting to med school sooner, but if I got to than I have to!

The law degree was something I wanted since i was given a great opportunity to get one as I believe it'll open up doors later on and it's a type of education and tool I value in any field!


And thanks again to all of you, I appreciate the advice. It's really helped and gives me some areas to investigate

 

[Law2Doc]

...
The law degree was something I wanted since i was given a great opportunity to get one as I believe it'll open up doors later on and it's a type of education and tool I value in any field!...

Nope. Having been a practicing lawyer might give you transferable skills. But just getting a degree and quickly jumping to another actually hurts you. Because it then becomes a misstep you have to explain, and sorry but not having the prereqs senior year isn't a good enough explanation to have become a lawyer. Once you say the law degree was something you wanted since you were given a great opportunity you are stuck explaining why you never followed through. The degree itself doesn't open doors. Having had that prior career certainly might. But jumping from degree program to degree program looks really bad. In my own experience having worked as a lawyer is a nice feather in my cap but the degree itself really isn't in and of itself much of a selling point.

 

[ZPakEffect]

As a graduate of a T14 law school who has now been accepted to a Top 25 medical school, I have to say I respectfully disagree with Law2Doc. He makes some strong arguments, but they are based only on his own perceptions. The fact is, the number of law graduates who apply to medical school is so low that few conclusions can be drawn about their chances. And Law2Doc, as far as I know, is not and has never been a member of an admissions committee.

I was a member of the law review while I was in law school, and my experiences working at the law review confirmed to me that I would absolutely hate being a lawyer. So even though I had offers for BigLaw positions upon graduation, I knew that I would rather shoot myself than practice as a lawyer. I never even took the Bar, such was my certainty that I would never practice law.

I do not feel that my law degree has hurt me at all during my application cycle. Yes, it was a major topic of discussion during every interview, but this was a very good thing. It was a topic that I was very well prepared to discussed and its discussion took up time that might have otherwise been used by the interviewers to throw some off-the-wall questions at me.

A caveat to this is that my numbers were very high. I applied with a LizzyM of 78 and a sGPA of 4.0. So take my opinion for what you think it's worth.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
I do not feel that my law degree has hurt me at all during my application cycle...
A caveat to this is that my numbers were very high. I applied with a LizzyM of 78 and a sGPA of 4.0...

Well, you are saying it "didn't hurt you" as you had very high numbers. The OP is saying it should "open doors" which is s very different thing.

I'm a lot farther down the road than you guys, have gotten more than a little feedback from Adcoms and PDs who are now colleagues, as to how my background was actually received and what worked in my favor. Adcoms get nervous with people who don't see things through. They want everyone they accept to become a practicing doctor -- that is their schools mission, and most take it seriously. The number one indicator/red flag of someone not completing medical school and residency is someone with a track record on trying and bailing on other things. They hate someone who jumps into a professional school without thinking it through, just because the opportunity was there, and then quickly tries to jump right away to another. They label such people "flighty" or "degree collectors". It's a very different picture for them if you actually try a career for a while, have some successes, don't really hate it, but after some soul searching or a nagging persistent dream, decide you might like something else better. And then slowly and deliberately do your due diligence to research that transition, through shadowing and volunteering, before you actually take any steps.

As your case points out, sometimes with high scores an Adcom or two will be willing to overlook a misstep. But that doesn't mean it is a path others can follow or should emulate. Your stats bailed you out of a bad story, IMHO and that's great. Congrats. But I think it helps the OP less than you think.

 

[Goro]

L2D is spot on in in his post.

When we see career jumpers like you, our first worry is "Is this person going to bail on medical school?", as you haven't shown any dedication to your first, significant career choice.

Second, we worry, as mentioned, that you're simply jumping from a poor career prospect. We want people who who have a passion for Medicine and have the drive be there ideally from the start. We do realize that people make wrong turns and go down the wrong career path, but they usually have some evidence that medicine was a long term passion, like shadowing in college, or doing volunteer work long before the semester they apply to med school.

As for the stuff in bold, no.

As mentioned above, the third thing we worry about is a "professional student".

That's the first I have heard that delaying pursuing anything medical and starting a career first would make me look flighty. That sounds counterintuitive. Wouldn't showing I'm on the path early be the best?

Wouldn't good grades, good MCAT, and a personal statement explaining Iv wanted to do this for a awhile be good enough to avoid delaying what I want to do for years?

And thanks as always, very helpful!