JD to MD????????????

[juliagulia930]

Okay...ultimately I am going to do what I want to do, but I am curious about opinions....

I am 35--I am a lawyer and an COMPLETELY unhappy--no I am miserable. While I know that the law and medicine are very different, I also know that I have always (and can be again) a good student. But, I need a dose of reality--is this just a pipe dream? These are some of my major concerns---I already have debt--can I afford to do'this??? I probably should mention that I have been a lawyer for four years and definitely do not make a king's ransom, so I have still considerably in debt. However, I have this hole inside--I am unfulfilled because I do not feel I am making a difference. I believe I can make a difference in medicine.

Okay..let me have it......pros, cons, etc.

I probably should mention I am single, no kids..so I don't have family commitments.....

I need to know how I can do this....my undergrad is a BA, not a BS, so at this point, what do I even need to do??? Do I need to take classes at a university, or can I fulfull requirements at a community college??

I need help here. And please be nice (at least a little.....)

Thank you!!!!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Perrotfish]

Look on SDN's post-bac forum. There are formal post-bac programs that get get you through the undergraduate pre-requisites in about a year. Then you need to take the MCATs, do very very well on the MCATs, and spend a year working as a lawyer while your application gets processed. So at the earliest you can start two years from this fall, at that's assuming you really hustle to meet the application deadlines for this years batch of post-bac programs (you have less than a month for the programs you can still even apply to).

This is assuming your origional U-grad GPA was good, of course. If it wasn't good you're going to need to spend even more time improving that.

This is very doable. If you look on the non-trad forum, you'll see many people have done this before without the benefit of having been good students or having already earned an impressive degree.

Good luck.

 

[Dane07MD]

There are ways you can make a difference in medicine without being a physician. Chances are you are type A, which is why you're considering it.

A BA vs. BS doesn't matter, there are just pre-reqs that are required. You can take those anywhere.

There is an entrance exam, which requires a totally different thought process than the LSAT, and requires patience and time to prepare for.

There is considerable debt, even if you can manage to secure a spot at a state university. Probably a large burden at this point in your life.

You will require evidence in your life that medicine is an interest. Becoming a lawyer, successful or not, is not impressive when it comes to admissions for medical school. They want to know why you're switching, and need evidence behind your desire to switch.

You'll become a certified physician by the time you are 44, at the absolute minimum. Think about that fact.

Interest in raising a family isn't eliminated, but finding someone willing to raise your family while you're studying constantly can be straining, on both a marriage and education. (This may not even be an issue though)

You need to be sure medicine will fill your void.

Nursing, PA, maybe even health legal work might be able to fill this void you mention. I know numerous lawyers considering switching, but they just can't justify more debt and uncertainty behind being granted an acceptance to a medical school.

Lots of things at play to consider... it's personal, and really shouldn't be influenced by what people on here think. The majority of users on this site are Type A 19-22 year olds whose biggest problem is deciding between attending <insert no. 1-25 medical school> versus <insert no. 1-26 medical school>.

As a slightly older individual, who can appreciate your plight and needing to find your calling and happiness, It seems to me, just from reading your post, that you'll make the right decision, but need info on what medicine entails. I know of several individuals who started medical school at 40+, but if you are going to do it, you need to be 110% sure of the commitment. I wish you luck in filling the hole in your life...just don't be hasty in trying to find the appropriate solution.

 

[Perrotfish]

just don't be hasty in trying to find the appropriate solution

Well, if she isn't 100% sure, the 1 year post-bac is still something she should get moving on. That will give her a clearer idea of whether or not she likes the coursework, and a year away from the job isn't going to financially hurt a single 35 year old who's been a good career for this long.

 

[BMBPSU2008]

*Paging Law2Doc*

 

[Jolie South]

moving this to the non-traditional forum. think the OPs question might be better answered over there.

 

[Dane07MD]

Post-bacs are good, but also a full time commitment, and usually a $50k investment (tuition + living)...

 

[Monkeyguts]

Okay...ultimately I am going to do what I want to do, but I am curious about opinions....

I am 35--I am a lawyer and an COMPLETELY unhappy--no I am miserable. While I know that the law and medicine are very different, I also know that I have always (and can be again) a good student. But, I need a dose of reality--is this just a pipe dream? These are some of my major concerns---I already have debt--can I afford to do'this??? I probably should mention that I have been a lawyer for four years and definitely do not make a king's ransom, so I have still considerably in debt. However, I have this hole inside--I am unfulfilled because I do not feel I am making a difference. I believe I can make a difference in medicine.

Okay..let me have it......pros, cons, etc.

I probably should mention I am single, no kids..so I don't have family commitments.....

I need to know how I can do this....my undergrad is a BA, not a BS, so at this point, what do I even need to do??? Do I need to take classes at a university, or can I fulfull requirements at a community college??

I need help here. And please be nice (at least a little.....)

Thank you!!!!

What makes you think your going to be happier in medicine? "Making a difference" is such a general term. Anybody can "make a difference" anywhere doing anything, it's not particular to medicine. Why not find a job in law where you can "make a difference" and save yourself another $200,000 in debt not to mention your late 30's/early 40's?

 

[fireflygirl]

I think Dane has given some fantastic advice and things to think about. The only thing I would like to add is that I have watched a friend of mine who used to be a lawyer apply twice to med school. She's in her early 30s and her goal was to use her knowledge of law and her interest in medicine and ethics to become a bioethics professor later in life. Also, she didn't like practicing law. The primary reason it took her two cycles was that adcoms had a hard time buying that she wasn't just switching careers for the hell of it. She had other weaknesses in her application but the main thing that hurt her in interviews was being unable to show adcoms why she was transitioning into medicine. I have no idea what your application looks like so I am not saying that it's going to happen to you but I thought it was one of the ugly sides of changing careers that might happen to come your way.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

There are lots of former lawyers/JDs out there who are either in medical school or somewhere in the application process. I have a JD, worked in a non-legal job for a few years (hated law!!) and am now a second year medical student, so what you're wanting to do is not at all impossible.

The first thing you need to assess is whether you really want to do medicine or if you're just looking for a way out of a job you don't like. If it's the latter, you should explore other career options first -- maybe meeting with a career counselor would be helpful.

If you really want to do medicine, there are a few different paths to get there. The BA isn't an issue, but you will need to take several science classes and the MCAT. If possible, it's usually better to take those classes at a university because some schools don't like community college credits as much. The most cost effective method is usually to take classes at night while working, but that really depends on your work requirements. There's also the option of quitting work and going back to school fulltime, but that of course costs a lot more money. Here's a list of the courses most schools require that you probably haven't taken:

a year of general biology (2 semesters or 3 quarters)
a year of general chemistry
a year of organic chemistry
a year of physics

 

[Avant]

I worked as a litigator at a big firm before quitting law and going to med school (I'm now a 4th-yea).

To me, the decision to leave law and enter the med field needed to be separate, and I did as much research as I could before getting too far into the process. I started with one class while working full-time. I picked a math class as I figured this would be the most difficult for me, and I told myself I would have to get an "A" in order to go forward. I quit my job for good only after I had completed more than half of my prereqs and knew I had a GPA that would help my application. I also volunteered heavily at a hospital and a hospice from the beginning to get some patient-based experience.

One big help to me was that I did not have any debt when I quit my job. Instead, I had put a considerable amount of money away to pay for my premed and some of med school. Had I a big debt I doubt I would have done it. Med school is expensive, and as an older student who hoped to have a family (I now have 2 kids) I didn't want to struggle with a huge debt load.

One thing to consider is the lifestyle change. Perhaps you don't have any interest in a family life now, but this may change if you meet someone. Even without kids you may want to devote more time to a fledgling relationship than can easily be done in med school and residency. And you perspective on the balance between work and a personal life might change when you are in your mid-40s and facing a residency.

I would strongly suggest starting your exploration of this in a less costly and time-consuming manner than a post-bac program. They can be great, but I feel they are more appropriate after you are completely devoted to the idea of med school and can bear the additional cost of a post-bac.

I hope you find more satisfaction in whatever you end up doing. I know how hard it is to have a demanding career that leaves you completely empty.

 

[Law2Doc]

Well, if she isn't 100% sure, the 1 year post-bac is still something she should get moving on. That will give her a clearer idea of whether or not she likes the coursework, and a year away from the job isn't going to financially hurt a single 35 year old who's been a good career for this long.

A postbac isn't going to give you an idea of whether or not you like medical school coursework. The sciences in the prereqs bear little resemblance to anything you will take in med school -- they are just basic science courses schools have arbitrarilly decided make a good foundation. What will give you a better idea is to start volunteering and shadowing. I'd do this before quitting your law job because often the reality of what doctors do is quite different from the fantasy.

I'd also suggest to OP that she focus in on what she is interested in in terms of medicine and not what she doesn't like about law. You don't go to med school because you are unhappy as a lawyer, you go to med school because you want to be a doctor. "Making a difference" and "helping people" are not good reasons because you can accomplish both of those goals as a lawyer (I sure did). And med schools want folks who are gung ho about medicine for solid (not vague idealistic) reasons. Disliking law is not something that will help you get into med school. Having accomplished a lot in law, and enjoying it, and having learned a lot of transferrable skills, but wanted to change careers because of X,Y, and Z you find in medicine is going to get you a LOT further than being perceived as running from something you dislike. Nobody wants another profession's malcontents. You need to be running toward medicine not away from law, or else this isn't the right jump for you. And it is concerning for some if you don't have really strong reasons for medicine coming from a JD, because it can seem like you don't know what you want to do but just have some sense that you want to be a "professional", or that you are just flailing around as a career student. You need to sell yourself on the medicine side a whole lot better than that, really have some strong deep seated reason for making this change in terms of what you are being drawn to, not away from.

To give you good advice I think you need to really iron out "why medicine?" (without using vague phrases like making a difference or helping people), and need to know what kind of ug GPA you have. Know that this is a long and arduous process with no shortcuts and even if you quit your job and began courses fulltime, it may still take several years before you start med school, which in turn is 4 long years, followed by a minimum of 3 years of residency (but most likely more for most specialties). So we are talking a full decade from now to when you are out of training. Your debt will be significantly greater by then, and because of that and the opportunity costs involved, you probably will not ever get to where you would be financially if you stayed in the law (this point was hammered on by virtually every interviewer and adcom I met along the way). So you have to know you love it, not that you hate where you are now.

 

[Orthodoc40]

There is some really great advice here from former law professionals that I can't match. But I was a career changer, and having invested a huge amount of my life in a previous career, it was very difficult and sometimes still is, to be certain I wanted to do this. So, one of the big things already said in different ways is to make 2 separate decisions. First, whether or not to leave law entirely. Second, whether or not to pursue medicine, and in what capacity.

Forgive me for being naiive about this one, but would doing something like medical malpractice defense be appealing?

 

[Law2Doc]

Forgive me for being naiive about this one, but would doing something like medical malpractice defense be appealing?

There are actually quite a few areas of "health" law that don't even involve medmal, if the OP is so inclined. Orthodoc has a good point that often the answer for getting away from a law job you don't like is to change your specialty, not your degree.

 

[nu2004]

OP: quit your job now and start shadowing physicians. shadow as many as possible to get a feel for different environments (hospital v. private practice) and specialties (highly specialized v. primary care). that said, try to shadow where you think you'll be interested and may possibly want to some day practice. at your age it is probably unrealistic to think that you'll be in a surgical sub-specialty or something else that requires a long course of training.

you've mentioned that you've been an attorney for four years - why only four years? was that an impulse decision 7 years ago, or did you just take some time off before applying to law school?

bottom line is, if you have a track record of being impulsive, seriously investigate medicine before starting the coursework in earnest. however, quitting your job to do a lot of shadowing can't be that bad as a JD is a nicely marketable degree. just have a good story lined up in case you decide to go back to law...

 

[Phoenix.]

I think there's some great advice above. I'm also a former (or rather, current) attorney and will be starting medical school this summer at the age of 33. I made the decision first that I was getting out of law, and then that I wanted to pursue medicine about three and a half years ago. I also started with one class on the weekends (Chem 101) while working full time, got an A and then quit my job to take all the pre-reqs over one summer plus two semesters. Now I'm at the end of my application/glide year. Also, I started volunteering at an ER immediately over three years ago, and then at a free health clinic. And I'm lucky that I have no debt currently, and am also single with no other responsibilities. It's definitely doable, but you need to be doing it for the right reasons, and go about it the right way.

So, first off, if all you're looking to do is make a difference and help people, why not first try pro-bono/legal aid work? I found that was definitely more satisfying than law firm legal work. And if you really enjoy it, you'll be doing something you feel good about, and won't have to spend the next 2-3 years preparing for medical school, 4 years in medical school, and 3-7 years in residency along with 100k-300k in debt. If legal aid work (or even health care policy work if you can get into that and have an interest) doesn't work for you, then you should definitely start volunteering in a hospital or shadowing asap so you can see if the reality of being a doctor is really what you think it is, and really what you want. If you find you feel passionate and dedicated after that experience, then I would recommend that you continue working and just get your feet wet by taking a science pre-req. See how you do. Then, either quit and get it all done in a year full-time, or space it out while working (but be sure that you're able to get good grades or you'll tank your chances). It would definitely help to know what your undergraduate gpa is - i.e., whether you've got a hurdle there or not. Your post-bac pre-req class grades you'd take now would be added to your undergrad grades, and that (as well as your overall science gpa) tend to be just as important as your MCAT score. Your law school gpa won't matter so much given you've been practicing for some years - and provided that your post-bac pre-reqs are good.

Anyway, I think you've got a lot to think about. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Law2Doc]

OP: quit your job now and start shadowing physicians.

Absolutely don't quit your job while doing volunteering/shadowing. You need to know for sure that you want to go into medicine before quitting, because it is a LOT harder to get another law job when you are unemployed as opposed to being employed.

 

[nu2004]

Absolutely don't quit your job while doing volunteering/shadowing. You need to know for sure that you want to go into medicine before quitting, because it is a LOT harder to get another law job when you are unemployed as opposed to being employed.

good points

 

[jfitzpat]

Okay...ultimately I am going to do what I want to do, but I am curious about opinions....

I am 35--I am a lawyer and an COMPLETELY unhappy--no I am miserable. While I know that the law and medicine are very different, I also know that I have always (and can be again) a good student. But, I need a dose of reality--is this just a pipe dream? These are some of my major concerns---I already have debt--can I afford to do'this??? I probably should mention that I have been a lawyer for four years and definitely do not make a king's ransom, so I have still considerably in debt. However, I have this hole inside--I am unfulfilled because I do not feel I am making a difference. I believe I can make a difference in medicine.

Okay..let me have it......pros, cons, etc.

I probably should mention I am single, no kids..so I don't have family commitments.....

I need to know how I can do this....my undergrad is a BA, not a BS, so at this point, what do I even need to do??? Do I need to take classes at a university, or can I fulfull requirements at a community college??

I need help here. And please be nice (at least a little.....)

Thank you!!!!

I'm a little different in that I left law to pursure a DDS, but many aspects are similar. I think the biggest thing for me is having to put my life on hold for four more years and in your case as many as 10 more years.

I was like you in that I had a non-science degree, so I had to go out and take the prereqs which added to my already fairly significant debt. At your age, you need to make sure that you love medicine and you can't live without it because you are committing yourself to years of hard work with little promise of true financial success. Obviously, if it is your true calling then money shouldn't matter, but it is also nice being able to live a comfortable lifestyle as you get older. If you're 35 now without any prereqs, you probably can't get into med school until you are 37 or 38, which means you would be in your mid to late forties when you finish residency. That's pretty late in the life to start denting 250k-500k in debt.

Sorry if I sound like I'm discouraging you, but it is just something that you better be 100% on. I suggest shadowing some physicians and taking some of the prereqs at night to make sure science is your thing. I started out shadowing physicians and found that I would rather be a dentist, so you never know what you might find out about what you really want.

 

[Monkeyguts]

OP: quit your job now and start shadowing physicians.

.Dude, you couldn't have been serious.

 

[nu2004]

.Dude, you couldn't have been serious.

given that this person has said that they are "miserable" as a result of their work, quitting their job probably isn't a terrible idea regardless of what comes next. since the idea was medicine, i thought the OP could probably use a quick injection of "real" medicine - not ER or House or Gray's - to give him/her an idea of what he/she might be getting into.

i still stand behind that suggestion, notwithstanding Law2Doc's prudent observation about finding another job.

 

[Phoenix.]

given that this person has said that they are "miserable" as a result of their work, quitting their job probably isn't a terrible idea regardless of what comes next. since the idea was medicine, i thought the OP could probably use a quick injection of "real" medicine - not ER or House or Gray's - to give him/her an idea of what he/she might be getting into.

i still stand behind that suggestion, notwithstanding Law2Doc's prudent observation about finding another job.

I respectfully disagree with your advice as well. You want the OP to be both miserable and broke? They can just as easily get an idea of what medicine really is by shadowing or volunteering on the weekends (or at night, like I did), while still working full time. That way, if they determine medicine isn't for them, they're still employeed and have more time to figure out what to do next without worrying about how to pay the mortgage or the other debt they mentioned. And yes, it is much harder to get a job in the legal field if you're currently unemployed. Much easier if you're moving laterally while employed. And MUCH less stressful.

 

[nu2004]

I respectfully disagree with your advice as well. You want the OP to be both miserable and broke? They can just as easily get an idea of what medicine really is by shadowing or volunteering on the weekends (or at night, like I did), while still working full time. That way, if they determine medicine isn't for them, they're still employeed and have more time to figure out what to do next without worrying about how to pay the mortgage or the other debt they mentioned. And yes, it is much harder to get a job in the legal field if you're currently unemployed. Much easier if you're moving laterally while employed. And MUCH less stressful.

okay, okay, i stand corrected. i amend my advice: start looking for a new job NOW while also shadowing