Jefferson vs Buffalo

[Cataract]

I never thought I'd be making one of these obnoxious threads, I'm sorry. Just received an offer from Buffalo and I panicked. I'm more into academic/research medicine so here are the things that are important to me. Can anyone offer some insight on the difference between the schools or prove me wrong on any of these things?

Buffalo (NY resident)
- Low cost of living, low tuition
- Research &Thesis Honors
- Block scheduling, classes 8-12
- Probably stuck in NY for residency
- 4 interval grading
- PhD or MBA option during 2nd year

Jefferson
- Block scheduling, classes 8-12
- Huge hospital system
- Philly for lifestyle and opportunities
- Residency opportunities outside NY
- No research honors
- H/P/F Grading
- The price makes me sad

Thanks!

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[PokerDoc]

its really hard to give advice on these threads without providing some hint to what you are looking for in a school.

I will also refrain from giving advice because jefferson is my top choice and i am on the waitlist so I would be biased in my opinion.

do you not want to be in NY for your residency? what makes you think you would be stuck.. as far as I know, no school limits where you can apply for residency. How much does tuition/cost of living matter to you?

 

[Cataract]

Thanks for the response. Like I mentioned, I'm interested in academic/research medicine. I guess what I'm asking is whether it's worth the money to go to Jeff for research and whether Research/Thesis Honors means anything.

NY is fine, but I'd rather leave my options open. The SUNY system was designed for churning out NY doctors and its apparent in the match lists, that's all. Tuition is important, but I'm just curious where the opportunities are.

 

[medgrlsox21]

I'm also stuck in the SUNY/NY system. What you say is true, I mean a few do get out and go other places however the SUNY system is state so they make state doctors. Research, well UB is okay on research but having research honors from a school thats not even ranked for research won't really mean anything more than research anywhere else. Additionally research in a city setting means theres many other universities you can do affiliate research with. I'm heading to SUNY Upstate this fall and I know alot of people do research through Syracuse U there. In Philly you'd obviously have the oppourtunity to research not only with your med school but many others. Price? I have many friends going to private and the fact the matter is debt it debt. Did you have a feeling about either school. I got a gut reaction NO against U of R even though its a great school and in my home town. I felt comfortable at Upstate and a few others. Thats how i chose. Also do you want a suburban experience or city? Buffalo is VERY suburban, you make work in a city hospital but thats the only time you'll see anything resembling that lifestyle. Hope this was sorta-helpful

 

[PokerDoc]

i agree with him about the gut feeling thing.. did your gut feeling lead u one way or the other?

 

[smq123]

NY is fine, but I'd rather leave my options open. The SUNY system was designed for churning out NY doctors and its apparent in the match lists, that's all. Tuition is important, but I'm just curious where the opportunities are.

Interpreting match lists is incredibly inprecise.

A HUGE number of people from Jefferson stay at Jefferson for residency. Is it because Jefferson is designed to churn out future Jefferson residents? Not necessarily - a lot of people stay because they have family (= husbands / wives / kids in the area. Or because they're comfortable in this hospital system and don't want to leave their comfort zone. Or because they've discovered that they really like the residency program here. It's all very complicated.

I've had a few residents from SUNY schools here at Jefferson. A few more from other NY state schools. Is it really that hard to leave NY for residency just because you go to a SUNY school? I find that hard to believe.

If SUNY-Buffalo is cheaper, and you liked the school, put some thought into going there. Debt is a really big consideration. But if you hated Buffalo and absolutely loved Jefferson, then, by all means, come to Jeff. A lot of the other considerations that you mentioned are not huge differences, and probably shouldn't sway you too much.

 

[Cataract]

Thanks for all the responses. I know how subjective the match lists can be, but it would only make sense for state schools to create doctors for the state. It's even in some of their school objectives. I see your point though.

In any case, smq if you had the chance to go to a state school, would you still go to Jefferson despite the costs? How are the research opportunities?

Interpreting match lists is incredibly inprecise.

A HUGE number of people from Jefferson stay at Jefferson for residency. Is it because Jefferson is designed to churn out future Jefferson residents? Not necessarily - a lot of people stay because they have family (= husbands / wives / kids in the area. Or because they're comfortable in this hospital system and don't want to leave their comfort zone. Or because they've discovered that they really like the residency program here. It's all very complicated.

I've had a few residents from SUNY schools here at Jefferson. A few more from other NY state schools. Is it really that hard to leave NY for residency just because you go to a SUNY school? I find that hard to believe.

If SUNY-Buffalo is cheaper, and you liked the school, put some thought into going there. Debt is a really big consideration. But if you hated Buffalo and absolutely loved Jefferson, then, by all means, come to Jeff. A lot of the other considerations that you mentioned are not huge differences, and probably shouldn't sway you too much.

 

[smq123]

Thanks for all the responses. I know how subjective the match lists can be, but it would only make sense for state schools to create doctors for the state. It's even in some of their school objectives. I see your point though.

In any case, smq if you had the chance to go to a state school, would you still go to Jefferson despite the costs? How are the research opportunities?

It depends on which state school, to be honest. I AM glad to go to Jefferson - it fits me and my personality.

There ARE research opportunities - but its definitely not a big focus of the school. There are plenty of opportunities, but if you're the kind of person that would kill for the chance to work as a dishwasher in the basement lab of a Nobel laureate, then Jefferson isn't the place to do that. (It's the place where you get to round on very sick patients that are being taken care of by well-known clinicians, but if you're REALLY into research, then Jefferson may not be the best fit for you.)

But there are some things to consider:
1) Does Buffalo explicitly state that its goal is to create doctors for the state? That's a little unusual for a school to do that, particularly a school that is in a state that is already heavily saturated with medical schools (i.e. NY).

2) There ARE lots of state schools that want to produce doctors for the state. But there's nothing that really forces you to stay. There are people from many of these schools (some even on SDN) that moved to totally different regions of the country to do residency.

 

[PokerDoc]

that was a good point you made earlier about the schools not necessarily producing local drs on purpose, but rather many people stayed in those areas by choice.

 

[saintjude11]

Dear Cataract,

Allow me to provide some insight. The first consideration when picking a school should be academics. I think it fair to say that there is no substantial academic difference between Buffalo and Jefferson. The second consideration should be price. Though Buffalo is a cheaper state school, it is important to consider what the school is able to do for you after graduation. If what you say is true and Jefferson provides better residency opportunities, which lead to better and higher paying jobs, then the investment is worth it. The final consideration is what I suspect has been giving you the most trouble: standard/quality of life. Buffalo is your typical rust belt city. Its economy is only stronger than its culture. The sign on the way into the city reads "Buffalo--An All American City" and boy are they ever right. Moreover, the weather in Buffalo is deserving of its reputation. Winters last from October to April. The typical day is a high of 15 and 3 inches of snow with 30 mph winds. By contrast, Philadelphia is a legitimate city with all the social benefits that come with it. It has a stronger economy, which leads to more employment opportunities. And though Philadelphia isn't like Miami in the winter, it is a far cry from the arctic conditions of Buffalo.

I should establish my bias. I am a student at Buffalo and was in a very similar situation to the one you find yourself in. Having been admitted by Buffalo and Einstein, I was forced to weigh cost vs. quality of life. I chose cost (even though I'd prefer live in NYC) and suffer every day because of it. I am left agreeing with the person who told you debt is debt.

At the end of the day, go with your gut. Ask yourself these questions to guide:
(1) Where do you see yourself being happier?
(2) Where would you go if money were no object?
(3) Twenty years from now, when you're well paid, will you look back upon this decision and regret that you didn't go to Jefferson?

I don't know, but I suspect from the way you asked your question that the answer to the above-stated questions is Jefferson. Then learn from my experience and go there!

Best,

SaintJude

 

[ny skindoc]

Residency placement is a non issue here.Many SUNY grads do their residency out of NY state. There is a large number who stay in state for the same reasons many of them stayed close to home to go to med school in the first place personal and economic factors(and there are many highly sought after hospitals here).If you really do look at the match lists of the four SUNY schools you will that matching out of NY state is not a problem if thats what you want.So focus on the other issues when making your choice.

 

[LeLu]

Which did you pick?

 

[Cataract]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, really appreciate it. I think I might go with Jefferson, mainly because Philadelphia would have more opportunities for networking, clinical exposure, and research. I really want to love Buffalo, but there just doesn't seem to be anything alluring besides the pricetag. Any other advice?

 

[0101010101]

All your reasons sound pretty good for going to Jefferson but I think when it comes to clinical exposure Buffalo dominates. Fist year you are assigned a practicing physician and have to do tasks for them on real patients for a grade.

 

[0101010101]

One more thing, look at the amount of money for research between the two schools...does Jefferson even have MSTP? That might be a good indicator of research. Not sure though. A good friend of mine is going to Jefferson and he's pretty pumped about it by the way.

 

[smq123]

All your reasons sound pretty good for going to Jefferson but I think when it comes to clinical exposure Buffalo dominates. Fist year you are assigned a practicing physician and have to do tasks for them on real patients for a grade.

Okay. This is a myth that predominates on pre-allo that really gets on my nerves.

"Early" clinical exposure does not = "Better" clinical school.

I also saw "real" patients as a first year at Jefferson. Did it do any good? No. Because the expectations for a first year, and the expectations for a third year are SO vastly different, that it didn't help whatsoever. Ooh, I learned how to take a blood pressure! That's a skill that I could have mastered in a day or two.

And when are you going to do those tasks? All that extraneous required stuff eats away at your study time..and when you get graded for it, that's just extra pressure. A little of it is necessary...but not a lot.

One more thing, look at the amount of money for research between the two schools...does Jefferson even have MSTP?

Yes, they do.

Honestly, it comes down to price. Both schools prepare you well. If you do well on Step 1, 3rd year rotations, and Step 2, you'll get the residency you want from either school. Everything else is kind of extraneous.

 

[PokerDoc]

your last sentence there couldnt be more true imo

 

[scowdeva]

Cataract- let us know what your final decision is! You couldn't go wrong with either school, and good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[Cataract]

Cataract- let us know what your final decision is! You couldn't go wrong with either school, and good luck with whatever you decide!

Thanks scowdeva. In case anyone is interested, I've decided to go with Jefferson. Location outweighed the cost. Philly has more opportunities for research, career networking, and clinical exposure. It's much closer to home and I wouldn't need a car in the city. I can't imagine dealing with blizzards in Buffalo and I would definitely need a car with all its costs. It's a huge difference in money, but I think I would get what I payed for at Buffalo. Saintjude had great advice, too, appreciate it. Thanks everyone for all your help!

 

[vader34mt]

Thanks scowdeva. In case anyone is interested, I've decided to go with Jefferson. Location outweighed the cost. Philly has more opportunities for research, career networking, and clinical exposure. It's much closer to home and I wouldn't need a car in the city. I can't imagine dealing with blizzards in Buffalo and I would definitely need a car with all its costs. It's a huge difference in money, but I think I would get what I payed for at Buffalo. Saintjude had great advice, too, appreciate it. Thanks everyone for all your help!

congrats cataract!...did u withdraw from UB already or will that take place soon?

 

[Cataract]

congrats cataract!...did u withdraw from UB already or will that take place soon?

Thanks. I'm withdrawing tomorrow. Good luck if you're on the waitlist, it's heartbreaking to withdraw.

 

[vader34mt]

Thanks. I'm withdrawing tomorrow. Good luck if you're on the waitlist, it's heartbreaking to withdraw.

i am on the waitlist...and UB is my top choice (just graduated from there as well)

when youre upset about withdrawing...think of the joy that someone like me will get out of that spot lol

thanks for withdrawing from UB and best of luck to you!