Jefferson vs. Rochester(URSMD) vs. MCW vs. Illinois(UICOM)

[Hypothermia]

I have been very fortunate to have gotten off some waitlists so now I have a choice on where to go to medical school.



Illinois (Chicago Campus):
Pros:

• True Pass/fail
  • Non mandatory, recorded lectures
• In Chicago, living there would be fun, lots to do
• Very close by to family and friends, so near support network
• Cheapest option by far ~45k/year

Cons

• Non nbme exams (in house)
• Lower ranking and prestige than some of the other schools on this list
  • Less opportunity for competitive specialties in competitive programs

Neutral (not sure if good or bad)

• VERY large class size. Not sure if that would be good or bad for me. It is probably bigger than the optimal size.

____________________________________________________________


Rochester:
Pros:

• True Pass/fail
• Highest rank and prestige of all the schools on the list
  • Best opportunity for competitive specialties in competitive programs
• Best fit for me in terms of their philosophy and biopsychosocial model

Cons

• More mandatory lectures--some lectures are not recorded
• Far from family and friends, no family or friends on east coast
• Private tuition: ~59k
• Crappiest weather out of all the options, but not by much

Neutral (not sure if good or bad)

• Lots of PBL learning (might hate it or might love it, idk)

____________________________________________________________

MCW:
Pros:

• True Pass/fail, no internal rankings?
• Recorded lectures
• Milwaukee seems like a good city to live in. Not as good as Chicago or Philly, but better than Rochester by far.
  • Although its not really IN Milwaukee, like 20min from the city
• Close enough to family and friends in Chicago that I could visit on weekends sometimes.
• Better ranking/prestige than Illinois
• Different pathways to individualize my education

Cons

• Non nbme exams (in house)
• Lower ranking/prestige than Rochester
• MOST expensive option $66,900/year

Neutral (not sure if good or bad)

• VERY large class size, 266 M1 students? Not sure if that would be good or bad for me. It is probably bigger than the optimal size.

____________________________________________________________

Jefferson:
Pros:

• True Pass/fail
  • Non mandatory, recorded lectures
• Great emphasis on community
• Philadelphia would great city to live in
• Higher rank than Illinois
• Organ systems based curriculum
• Week off after each exam
• One of my good friends is finishing up M4 here and recommends it very highly (Probably could find people at every school that say this though?)

Cons

• Non nbme exams (in house)
• Lower ranking/prestige than Rochester
• Very Expensive ~$61,500/year

Neutral (not sure if good or bad)

• About equal ranking/prestige as MCW
• Great programs for Ortho, neurosurg, Optho, ENT, although not sure if I am interested in these yet

Here are some of my thoughts, it is really tough for me to figure out what is my best option. Illinois wins on a lot of fronts, but it is lowest ranked and that might cripple future career opportunities. The only school that felt like I really fit its mission is Rochester I would say.

Besides the pros and cons below, having great research opportunities is important to me, I believe I want to go into academic medicine. From what I know, all of these schools have pretty good research opportunities. Some may be better than others though. It is hard to learn more about which schools are "better for research" than others. Any comments about this would be helpful.

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[ujsc]

Wmed is MCW BTW. I think you have already made up your mind if you can tolerate living away from support system in Rochester. I guess it is that variable that you must determine the importance of.

Chicago is cheapest option and is close to home but it may not be up to your standards. MCW is a good school with P/F, excellent research funding and that can help when you are looking for residencies. MCW does Ok in match lists and is especially excellent in ortho. It has a great hospital system. Milwaukee also has alot of nice qualities but it does have it's share of violence like Chicago. More important, however, is that MCW is just way too expensive to justify. Jefferson is also expensive but has many good hospitals nearby and is really good for residencies with several specialties like opthalm, Ortho and a few others. One issue is that is ranked internally which makes it more stressful...

Jefferson, however, is very far from your family and since I have spent time in Philly I can tell you, it is really expensive to live there, and the handgun violence is totally out of control and police won't even spend any time on anything else since they are so overwhelmed.

What matters to you most weighing these differences, is to go with your gut and that may be Rochester. Let us know. Good luck on your decision..either way you will be fine

 

[Hypothermia]

Wmed is MCW BTW. I think you have already made up your mind if you can tolerate living away from support system in Rochester. I guess it is that variable that you must determine the importance of.

You're right I edited thanks. Is it worth the extra 11k/year, and living away from family for the prestige? I really don't know how important a schools prestige is

 

[ujsc]

You're right I edited thanks. Is it worth the extra 11k/year, and living away from family for the prestige? I really don't know how important a schools prestige is

If it gets where you want to go in the long term (better training and residency options), that would be alot! Your decision to evaluate in the end.

 

[TuckGamePerfect]

FYI Jefferson is not true pass fail

 

[TheIndianMamba]

Sounds like you like Rochester the most so I would go with that!

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

Comes down to Rochester or UICOM here. I’ll give my vote to UICOM for a couple of reasons: location, cost, access to support system, and the prestige difference not being as notable as I think you’re perceiving it to be. It’s rank 37 vs 56 which really means nothing. Neither are top 20 schools, neither are lower tier schools. Does Rochester have a a slight edge? Sure. Is it one that is going to carry you wherever you please? Unlikely. Nor is UICOM’s rep going to close any doors for you. I would bet Rochester’s stronger match list is a reflection of the fact that they pull stronger students (big difference in MCAT and GPA averages) rather than a reflection of resources or reputation. My one caveat here is if you wanted to match a strong academic residency, then you might consider Rochester’s track record of doing so is stronger. Again, tough to read match lists. I think you’ll ultimately have to work equally hard at either place to end up in a competitive specialty/ program. Neither name is strong enough or weak enough to make a big difference, imo. I’d take my 60k and live where I want to live for 4 years, with the people I want to live around.

 

[drellis]

I have been very fortunate to have gotten off some waitlists so now I have a choice on where to go to medical school.



Illinois (Chicago Campus):
Pros:

• True Pass/fail
  • Non mandatory, recorded lectures
• In Chicago, living there would be fun, lots to do
• Very close by to family and friends, so near support network
• Cheapest option by far ~45k/year

Cons

• Non nbme exams (in house)
• Lower ranking and prestige than some of the other schools on this list
  • Less opportunity for competitive specialties in competitive programs

Neutral (not sure if good or bad)

• VERY large class size. Not sure if that would be good or bad for me. It is probably bigger than the optimal size.

____________________________________________________________


Rochester:
Pros:

• True Pass/fail
• Highest rank and prestige of all the schools on the list
  • Best opportunity for competitive specialties in competitive programs
• Best fit for me in terms of their philosophy and biopsychosocial model

Cons

• More mandatory lectures--some lectures are not recorded
• Far from family and friends, no family or friends on east coast
• Private tuition: ~59k
• Crappiest weather out of all the options, but not by much

Neutral (not sure if good or bad)

• Lots of PBL learning (might hate it or might love it, idk)

____________________________________________________________

MCW:
Pros:

• True Pass/fail, no internal rankings?
• Recorded lectures
• Milwaukee seems like a good city to live in. Not as good as Chicago or Philly, but better than Rochester by far.
  • Although its not really IN Milwaukee, like 20min from the city
• Close enough to family and friends in Chicago that I could visit on weekends sometimes.
• Better ranking/prestige than Illinois
• Different pathways to individualize my education

Cons

• Non nbme exams (in house)
• Lower ranking/prestige than Rochester
• MOST expensive option $66,900/year

Neutral (not sure if good or bad)

• VERY large class size, 266 M1 students? Not sure if that would be good or bad for me. It is probably bigger than the optimal size.

____________________________________________________________

Jefferson:
Pros:

• True Pass/fail
  • Non mandatory, recorded lectures
• Great emphasis on community
• Philadelphia would great city to live in
• Higher rank than Illinois
• Organ systems based curriculum
• Week off after each exam
• One of my good friends is finishing up M4 here and recommends it very highly (Probably could find people at every school that say this though?)

Cons

• Non nbme exams (in house)
• Lower ranking/prestige than Rochester
• Very Expensive ~$61,500/year

Neutral (not sure if good or bad)

• About equal ranking/prestige as MCW
• Great programs for Ortho, neurosurg, Optho, ENT, although not sure if I am interested in these yet

Here are some of my thoughts, it is really tough for me to figure out what is my best option. Illinois wins on a lot of fronts, but it is lowest ranked and that might cripple future career opportunities. The only school that felt like I really fit its mission is Rochester I would say.

Besides the pros and cons below, having great research opportunities is important to me, I believe I want to go into academic medicine. From what I know, all of these schools have pretty good research opportunities. Some may be better than others though. It is hard to learn more about which schools are "better for research" than others. Any comments about this would be helpful.

Did you get off the waitlist at MCW?

 

[Hypothermia]

Comes down to Rochester or UICOM here. I’ll give my vote to UICOM for a couple of reasons: location, cost, access to support system, and the prestige difference not being as notable as I think you’re perceiving it to be. It’s rank 37 vs 56 which really means nothing. Neither are top 20 schools, neither are lower tier schools. Does Rochester have a a slight edge? Sure. Is it one that is going to carry you wherever you please? Unlikely. Nor is UICOM’s rep going to close any doors for you. I would bet Rochester’s stronger match list is a reflection of the fact that they pull stronger students (big difference in MCAT and GPA averages) rather than a reflection of resources or reputation. My one caveat here is if you wanted to match a strong academic residency, then you might consider Rochester’s track record of doing so is stronger. Again, tough to read match lists. I think you’ll ultimately have to work equally hard at either place to end up in a competitive specialty/ program. Neither name is strong enough or weak enough to make a big difference, imo. I’d take my 60k and live where I want to live for 4 years, with the people I want to live around.

Yea.. its hard, the crowd seems split here and so am I. Most of the specialties I am interested in are not competitive. But like you said, I would like to get into the best residency that I can. One part about Rochester that sucks besides the increase in money is that it has mandatory lectures and students are on campus from 8-5pm on multiple days a week because of the PBLs and such.

 

[LoveCoffee]

it has mandatory lectures

This has changed according to students at 2L. They record lectures and post them for a limited amount of time (3 days after and then they put them up again the week before exams), so you can't watch all the lectures from the week on the weekend, but you can miss class and catch up the next day and you can back reference them when you are studying for exams. The expectation is that students attend lecture, but there isn't attendance (from my understanding at least) and students at 2L said that even before they started recording there were some students that didn't come to lecture and just studied off of the syllabuses. Having to be on campus for long periods due to PBL is true though and the expectation of the school is definitely for their students to show up. I chose UR and view it as a pro of the school, I am looking forward to spending extended time with my classmates on campus and I really like the structure that it provides, but I can see how others might see it as a con.

RE the extra 11k/year, it depends on your financial planning. If you're wanting to go into a long training path, doing income-based repayment, staying at 501C3 hospitals, and using PSLF then it might not even matter in the long run. But if you do a shorter training and go right into private practice the repayments would be steeper and you'd be paying them off for longer. It's definitely a gamble if you aren't sure yet. No matter what though, in the end you're going to be a doctor - you'll be able to pay off the student loans and live comfortably. I struggled with my choice but wound up choosing UR over a state school that would have been 75k cheaper over 4 years. It's not an easy thing to consider, but for I want out of my medical education and career I think it will be worth it. I wish you the best of luck in your decision and am hoping that if UR is what is best for you I will see you on campus in August!

 

[Hypothermia]

This has changed according to students at 2L. They record lectures and post them for a limited amount of time (3 days after and then they put them up again the week before exams), so you can't watch all the lectures from the week on the weekend, but you can miss class and catch up the next day and you can back reference them when you are studying for exams. The expectation is that students attend lecture, but there isn't attendance (from my understanding at least) and students at 2L said that even before they started recording there were some students that didn't come to lecture and just studied off of the syllabuses. Having to be on campus for long periods due to PBL is true though and the expectation of the school is definitely for their students to show up. I chose UR and view it as a pro of the school, I am looking forward to spending extended time with my classmates on campus and I really like the structure that it provides, but I can see how others might see it as a con.

RE the extra 11k/year, it depends on your financial planning. If you're wanting to go into a long training path, doing income-based repayment, staying at 501C3 hospitals, and using PSLF then it might not even matter in the long run. But if you do a shorter training and go right into private practice the repayments would be steeper and you'd be paying them off for longer. It's definitely a gamble if you aren't sure yet. No matter what though, in the end you're going to be a doctor - you'll be able to pay off the student loans and live comfortably. I struggled with my choice but wound up choosing UR over a state school that would have been 75k cheaper over 4 years. It's not an easy thing to consider, but for I want out of my medical education and career I think it will be worth it. I wish you the best of luck in your decision and am hoping that if UR is what is best for you I will see you on campus in August!

Thanks for the reply. I could see why it might be a pro to have long PBLs on campus and be with your classmates.

It is a really tough decision, even though I know I can't go wrong either way. Rochester is an amazing school. I guess I am not even sure how much time I would even have to visit friends and family in Chicago, I heard you barely have time to do hobbies in medschool.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Yea.. its hard, the crowd seems split here and so am I. Most of the specialties I am interested in are not competitive. But like you said, I would like to get into the best residency that I can. One part about Rochester that sucks besides the increase in money is that it has mandatory lectures and students are on campus from 8-5pm on multiple days a week because of the PBLs and such.

I see the in-class / on-campus time as a plus. You want to engage with people on a daily basis ---- remember that's what being a physician is all about. I have friends at schools that have PBL. They think it's a great part of their medical education despite the time commitment. Besides the added cost (which isn't huge in the big scheme), only the weather in Rochester would make me think twice about that school. But your other options are all pretty poor in terms of weather. And Philly, Chicago, and Milwaukee ain't the greatest spots to live in either. All expensive and/or high crime. Rochester's COL is reasonable and it's safer than the others (I presume). I'd lean toward Rochester given your options.

 

[LoveCoffee]

Thanks for the reply. I could see why it might be a pro to have long PBLs on campus and be with your classmates.

It is a really tough decision, even though I know I can't go wrong either way. Rochester is an amazing school. I guess I am not even sure how much time I would even have to visit friends and family in Chicago, I heard you barely have time to do hobbies in medschool.

You get like 3-4 weeks off for winter break and then you could do research there over the summer after M1 and aways during M4, but during the semester I imagine it would be very difficult to visit Chicago. I’ve gotten used to being far from home (NYC suburbs) so it’s something I’ve come to terms with for med school but I understand having that support system can make all the difference for people. Totally reasonable if that’s the determining factor in your decision and you have some great school(s) closer to home.

RE hobbies, the UR students at 2L assured us it’s all how you balance your time, which I’m sure is true most places, but med school did seem to be the dominant thing in their lives, with things like hiking, baking, going to the gym etc taking a back seat but still present. Most if not all of them did volunteer and/or do research though, it wasn’t all classes for them all the time. P/F seems to grant some freedom to do things other than class work. Many students recommended taking the first month and focusing only on classes, self care, and making friends, then starting to gradually add on more extracurriculars and hobbies as you’re able.

Once again, good luck to you. Let us know what you choose!!