jetproppilot

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OK, Dudes.

Try and follow me on this.

Cuz its serious. :)lol:)

OK, seriously....

The scientific method we all abide by involves replication..thousands of patients....double blindness.....prospectiveness....

my S.O. has got me watching all these detective reality shows....

where the detective/forensic pathologist reproduce real life crimes during their investigation....ONCE.

alotta the crimes have stuff discovered by crime scene investigators.....like a bullet....or a skull thats been penetrated by a bullet...


said detective/forensic pathologist recreates the crime....shooting a bullet through something then looking at said bullet through a microscope....and coming to conclusions from the ONE experiment..

or looking at pictures from a crime scene, and making incriminating conclusions from pictures....

my point/question is....

IS FORENSIC PATHOLOGY A SCIENCE? OR IS IT VOODOO?

Can a forensic pathologists perform one experiment recreating a crime scene, and convict an individual from that?

Is this really done?

If so, doesnt that speak against the scientific process that we all live by, i.e. waiting for the-ability-to-replicate before making conclusions? Excluding bias before making conclusions?

How can that be achieved by a forensic pathologist firing a bullet into a water can, inspecting the bullet under a microscope, and making conclusions that could send a person to the electric chair?

Or an opinion on a blood spatter?

Etc etc....

Looks like alotta subjective opinion to me.

But this stuff apparently sets legal precedence.

Scary, dontcha think?
 

Apollyon

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See "Spitz and Fischer's Medicolegal Dermination of Death". It's THE guide to forensic medicine.

They do it once for cases, but they compare to standards and prior cases. It is more regimented and rigorous than you have been led to believe.
 

Noyac

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DUde, Jet

YOU need to put the con bud down (by the way, I'm pretty sure it KINE bud but I like CON, as in from the penitentiary).

Its only TV. Watch less, do more.:love:
 

Gimlet

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I know those CSI shows are pretty unrealistic, but my wife's obsession with them has rubbed off on me. I'm taking a Forensic Pathology elective next fall and I have a feeling I'll be sorely disappointed by how grounded in actual science the medical examiner's office actually is.

That won't stop me from spending the whole month talking like David Caruso's character on CSI Miami, however:

[YOUTUBE]ceHnUrUAbho[/YOUTUBE]
 

denied

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Looks like alotta subjective opinion to me.

But this stuff apparently sets legal precedence.

Scary, dontcha think?
You seem to see it time after time where the "crime lab" is little more than the rubber stamp on the police and the prosecutor. The state has unlimited resources, to rail road someone, they don't like. Occasionally the little guy gets a fair healing or the truth comes out but more often than not the accused gets assigned an over worked public defender and is pressured into a plea bargain since they don't have the resources to hire an independent crime lab and have the evidence properly examined.

I was watching fox news last night and saw this story where the prosecutors deliberately hid exonerating lab tests and allowed contaminated lab tests to be presented in court, causing a woman to spend two years in before the truth about her innocence was revealed.




Marine Widow Blasts Prosecutors
By ALLISON HOFFMAN,AP

SAN DIEGO (April 18) - A woman who spent more than two years in jail before she was cleared of killing her Marine husband with arsenic questioned Friday how prosecutors could sleep at night, now knowing that new tests showed no traces of poison.


Photo Gallery
Denis Poroy, AP Wife Cleared
Of Murdering Husband1 of 7 A day after she was cleared of murdering her husband, Cynthia Sommer lashed out Friday at the prosecutors who put her behind bars for more than two years. They had said she wanted her husband's life insurance to pay for breast implants. "The only question I have for (prosecutors) is how they sleep at night?" Sommer said.

Cynthia Sommer, 34, said she barely slept herself on her first night of freedom after a San Diego Superior Court judge Thursday dismissed charges that she poisoned her husband in 2002.

She was convicted of first-degree murder in January 2007 after initial tests of Sgt. Todd Sommer's liver showed levels of arsenic 1,020 times above normal.

But prosecutors found no traces of poison in previously untested tissue as they prepared for a second trial. A judge had ordered a new trial in November after finding she had ineffective representation from her former attorney.

At her trial, prosecutors argued that Sommer used her husband's life insurance to pay for breast implants and pursue a more luxurious lifestyle.

With no proof that Sommer was the source of the arsenic detected in her husband's liver, the government relied heavily on circumstantial evidence of Sommer's financial debt and later spending sprees to show that she had a motive to kill her 23-year-old husband.

Sommer criticized prosecutors for questioning her behavior after her husband's death, saying, "I did what I did."

She was set free within hours of the judge's ruling and emerged from the Las Colinas Detention Facility in suburban Santee.

"The only question I have for (prosecutors) is how they sleep at night?" Sommer said.

Her attorney, Allen Bloom, said he felt the evidence was contaminated. "We've said that all along," he told reporters outside the courthouse.

Bloom accused the district attorney of "gross negligence."

San Diego County District Attorney Bonnie Dumanis defended her handling of the case Friday, saying that justice was served and that her office acted appropriately.

"We did what we were supposed to do," Dumanis told KFMB-TV. "We're all looking backwards now and second-guessing everything."

A recently retained government expert speculated that the earlier samples were contaminated, prosecutors wrote in a motion filed in court. The expert said he found the initial results "very puzzling" and "physiologically improbable."

Todd Sommer was in top physical condition when he collapsed and died Feb. 18, 2002, at the couple's home on the Marine Corps' Miramar base in San Diego. His death was initially ruled a heart attack.

Dumanis said Thursday there was no proof of contamination but offered no other explanation. She said she didn't know how the tissue may have been contaminated.

"We had an expert who said it was arsenic and no reason to doubt that evidence," Dumanis said. "The bottom line was, 'Was there arsenic in Mr. Sommer causing his death?' Our results showed that there was."

Sommer said she wasn't sure what she would do now that she was out of jail. She was looking forward to seeing her four children, ages 8 to 16.

"It's already been an incredible day. I can't wait to finish it," she said.



Marine Widow Blasts Prosecutors

By ALLISON HOFFMAN,AP
Posted: 2008-04-18 20:08:46
 
OP
jetproppilot

jetproppilot

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I know those CSI shows are pretty unrealistic, but my wife's obsession with them has rubbed off on me. I'm taking a Forensic Pathology elective next fall and I have a feeling I'll be sorely disappointed by how grounded in actual science the medical examiner's office actually is.

That won't stop me from spending the whole month talking like David Caruso's character on CSI Miami, however:

[YOUTUBE]ceHnUrUAbho[/YOUTUBE]
Yeah, that dudes the bomb!

Wasnt referring to the CSI types though in the OP....rather the near "reality tv" crime scene shows that either show the real dudes in action or a recreation of an actual case.