Jetta Versus Altima

[doctor712]

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Hi All,

SDN's own pre-med Anesthesiologist in the e-flesh here. You all know me as being really really passionate about Anesthesia. In the spirit of sharing some non medical posts like the vacation spots one...I'm car shopping. Actually lease shopping. Have it narrowed down to two cars: Nissan Altima 2009 vs. Volkswagen Jetta 2009. Want to be fiscally responsible as this is the car that's going to take me back and forth through M1 and M2 years. 🙂

Thoughts, opinions, suggestions. I want to get this over with this weekend, so any and all input would be great.

p.s. I'm really tall (6'4''), so, comfort is a plus. It's more about safety and getting from home to school to shadowing to school to home, aw, you guys get it. Anybody have experiences, please share. I've tested them both, can't make up my mind.

Joke answers welcomed and encouraged.

D712

 

[EternalMD]

Jetta has the reputation of being known as a chick car. In addition, VW is known to have numerous mechanical/electrical issues which results in it continuously being near the bottom of the list when it comes to reliability.

Have you looked at a mazda 6? the new 2009 ones are pretty nice

 

[bubalus]

Pick up a copy of the Consumer's Reports auto issue and give it a read. If you can't find one at a bookstore, you can find it at the library.

 

[Hockeyguy]

I inherited my wifes Passat with 105K on it and we got her a new ride. It's a chick car for sure (I used to drive a Land Rover) but this baby is cheap on gas and I am going to drive until the wheels fall off - or at least until I am
in PP and I can pick up a Range Rover HSE. We've owned it outright for three years so I am getting our moneys worth. We've had no problems with it and I put that hurt on that thing. Also I am 6'2" and its fine on space - hope that helps.

 

[doctor712]

Ha, I'm already driving a "chick car," (Jeep Liberty), but I hadn't heard such problems about Jetta. Thanks for tidbits, I'll research more!

 

[2ndyear]

A couple of general points about leasing:
Don't read ads in the newspaper and fall for them at all. Here is what you should do:
1) Find out the money factor and residual value on each lease. Google them, they're easy to find. Money factor is how much interest you pay on your lease. Don't get screwed. They're set by the manufacturer and some dealers will mark these up a lot. For this month, a Jetta SEL sedan has a 55% residual value and a money factor of 0.00119. Multiply by 2400 to find the interest rate, so 2.9% Pretty good, and beats the 3.9% APR this month. Higher residual=better payment. 55% is good.

2) Negotiate the purchase price of the car. Lease deals typically involve lots of money down and a low monthly payment. DO NOT put money down on a lease. Instead, get the purchase price to invoice or below. You should be able to get $500-1000 below invoice on each of these cars. This will lower your monthly payment by a lot. Use edmunds or consumer reports to find invoice prices as well as how much money the dealer gets on each model.

3) Don't tell the dealer you want to lease until AFTER you have the purchase price to invoice or below. Remember to key on this price. Want to see your monthly payment drop? Take $3000 off MSRP. It will drop. Lets say I do want the new Audi A6...OK I am dreaming, but still:
MSRP is $50925. Invoice is $47418. Payment on a 24 month lease at MSRP is $1036/month while at invoice it is $887. Almost affordable!

4) VW's 'sign then drive leases' aren't that bad, and I just did one. A lot of up front fees involved though as with any lease. You will pay a bank fee of $575, documentation fees, and they get you for $350 when you turn the lease in. One place to pay money on a lease is the bank and doc fee, otherwise you pay the interest when they roll it into the lease. Also they are only on the 39 month lease. 39,000 miles. Realize the total warranty ends at 36k. Big powertrain items are covered to 50k though. As you will pay around $1000 in crap fees to originate a lease, it makes sense to lease for around 3 years. Watch out for other fees as well. EVERYTHING is negotiable except the bank fee and doc fee which are set by VW.

I would get the Jetta, but not before looking at the Rabbit, and leftover 2008 GTI's. I really wanted a GTI. Look for the 2.0T in the Jetta as well as the Wolfsburg edition. If I needed a car right now, I'd consider buying this one:
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/1028388817.html

 

[tabishis]

How about a Camry? Those are really nice cars. I like Altima too but Camry is much better.

 

[maceo]

A couple of general points about leasing:
Don't read ads in the newspaper and fall for them at all. Here is what you should do:
1) Find out the money factor and residual value on each lease. Google them, they're easy to find. Money factor is how much interest you pay on your lease. Don't get screwed. They're set by the manufacturer and some dealers will mark these up a lot. For this month, a Jetta SEL sedan has a 55% residual value and a money factor of 0.00119. Multiply by 2400 to find the interest rate, so 2.9% Pretty good, and beats the 3.9% APR this month. Higher residual=better payment. 55% is good.

2) Negotiate the purchase price of the car. Lease deals typically involve lots of money down and a low monthly payment. DO NOT put money down on a lease. Instead, get the purchase price to invoice or below. You should be able to get $500-1000 below invoice on each of these cars. This will lower your monthly payment by a lot. Use edmunds or consumer reports to find invoice prices as well as how much money the dealer gets on each model.

3) Don't tell the dealer you want to lease until AFTER you have the purchase price to invoice or below. Remember to key on this price. Want to see your monthly payment drop? Take $3000 off MSRP. It will drop. Lets say I do want the new Audi A6...OK I am dreaming, but still:
MSRP is $50925. Invoice is $47418. Payment on a 24 month lease at MSRP is $1036/month while at invoice it is $887. Almost affordable!

4) VW's 'sign then drive leases' aren't that bad, and I just did one. A lot of up front fees involved though as with any lease. You will pay a bank fee of $575, documentation fees, and they get you for $350 when you turn the lease in. One place to pay money on a lease is the bank and doc fee, otherwise you pay the interest when they roll it into the lease. Also they are only on the 39 month lease. 39,000 miles. Realize the total warranty ends at 36k. Big powertrain items are covered to 50k though. As you will pay around $1000 in crap fees to originate a lease, it makes sense to lease for around 3 years. Watch out for other fees as well. EVERYTHING is negotiable except the bank fee and doc fee which are set by VW.

I would get the Jetta, but not before looking at the Rabbit, and leftover 2008 GTI's. I really wanted a GTI. Look for the 2.0T in the Jetta as well as the Wolfsburg edition. If I needed a car right now, I'd consider buying this one:
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/1028388817.html

The jetta in the 2.0t has the dsg automatic transmission which they state is the fastest shifting transmission but its a problematic transmission just google all the problems people have had with this tranny.(car transmission)

The rabbit seems like a good car, but thats the ultimate chick car or gay mans car. They should have stayed with the golf name.

Audi A6 is a nice car.. the s5 is the sweetest car.

 

[2ndyear]

I don't like the Rabbit name either, rumor has it Golf will be back for 2010 though. The design looks cool to me, and I'm not a chick nor gay, (not that there is anything wrong with that.) I guess I just like the hatchbacks.

My next quest is weaning myself off of 'luxury' brands. Went from his and hers BMW's to now a 3 series and a VW. Next I will ditch the bimmer and get either:
2009 Subaru WRX, 265 hp, AWD, 4.7 sec 0-60, around $25,000.
OR
2010? VW GTI R20. 2.0Turbo, 270 hp, AWD. The R32 replacement. Just hope it comes in 4 doors to get a car seat in the back. Will likely be more than 25k, but it is essentially an Audi S3. After this winter, I appreciate the AWD more than ever, the xi bimmer has paid itself off getting to work this year.

 

[Noyac]

I inherited my wifes Passat with 105K on it and we got her a new ride. It's a chick car for sure (I used to drive a Land Rover) but this baby is cheap on gas and I am going to drive until the wheels fall off - or at least until I am
in PP and I can pick up a Range Rover HSE. We've owned it outright for three years so I am getting our moneys worth. We've had no problems with it and I put that hurt on that thing. Also I am 6'2" and its fine on space - hope that helps.

Why settle for the HSE? Get it supercharged!

BTW, if the only two cars to vote on are the Jetta or the Altima, I'd ride my bike.

 

[stargirl50]

I had to laugh when I read the title of this thread. I drive a Jetta (08) and my husband drives an Altima (01). I also had a Jetta in high school-- it's a 99 and my brother still drives it, no problems. I don't think you can go wrong with either of these cars!

 

[NavyFlightDoc]

A nice thing about the Jetta is that the first 3 years all the maintenance is covered. if you are buying a car this is less of a benefit, since you are more likely to have major problems later in the car's life, but for leasing, it means you shouldn't have any non-accident related expenses while you have it.

 

[pgg]

SDN's own pre-med Anesthesiologist in the e-flesh here.

If you're a premed, looking down the barrel of 4 years of very large student loans to get through medical school, followed by 4 more years of those loans accruing interest while you're a resident, maybe leasing a 2009 anything isn't such a great idea.

Have you considered buying a 2007 anything instead?

 

[doctor712]

A couple of general points about leasing:
Don't read ads in the newspaper and fall for them at all. Here is what you should do:
1) Find out the money factor and residual value on each lease. Google them, they're easy to find. Money factor is how much interest you pay on your lease. Don't get screwed. They're set by the manufacturer and some dealers will mark these up a lot. For this month, a Jetta SEL sedan has a 55% residual value and a money factor of 0.00119. Multiply by 2400 to find the interest rate, so 2.9% Pretty good, and beats the 3.9% APR this month. Higher residual=better payment. 55% is good.

2) Negotiate the purchase price of the car. Lease deals typically involve lots of money down and a low monthly payment. DO NOT put money down on a lease. Instead, get the purchase price to invoice or below. You should be able to get $500-1000 below invoice on each of these cars. This will lower your monthly payment by a lot. Use edmunds or consumer reports to find invoice prices as well as how much money the dealer gets on each model.

3) Don't tell the dealer you want to lease until AFTER you have the purchase price to invoice or below. Remember to key on this price. Want to see your monthly payment drop? Take $3000 off MSRP. It will drop. Lets say I do want the new Audi A6...OK I am dreaming, but still:
MSRP is $50925. Invoice is $47418. Payment on a 24 month lease at MSRP is $1036/month while at invoice it is $887. Almost affordable!

4) VW's 'sign then drive leases' aren't that bad, and I just did one. A lot of up front fees involved though as with any lease. You will pay a bank fee of $575, documentation fees, and they get you for $350 when you turn the lease in. One place to pay money on a lease is the bank and doc fee, otherwise you pay the interest when they roll it into the lease. Also they are only on the 39 month lease. 39,000 miles. Realize the total warranty ends at 36k. Big powertrain items are covered to 50k though. As you will pay around $1000 in crap fees to originate a lease, it makes sense to lease for around 3 years. Watch out for other fees as well. EVERYTHING is negotiable except the bank fee and doc fee which are set by VW.

I would get the Jetta, but not before looking at the Rabbit, and leftover 2008 GTI's. I really wanted a GTI. Look for the 2.0T in the Jetta as well as the Wolfsburg edition. If I needed a car right now, I'd consider buying this one:
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/1028388817.html

thanks for all the advice. very worthwhile. 1500 out of pocket (taxes and fees you described, 210$ a month out door, 36 month. done. get it thursday. black. very happy.

How about a Camry? Those are really nice cars. I like Altima too but Camry is much better.

camry was the first stop, he highballed me, off to nissan and VW.

Why settle for the HSE? Get it supercharged!

BTW, if the only two cars to vote on are the Jetta or the Altima, I'd ride my bike.

yeah, yeah. there's more to life than fancy cars. 🙂 especially when im not practicing just yet mr. noyac. beats riding a bike to med school, tho don't it! 🙂 anyway, range rover is a fun car. maybe when i get my first job offer. (if they're making a hybrid then!). for now, im being wise. ive done the hollywood fancy-car-pull-up-to-spago thing. it's foolishness in my mind. being a doc - and keeping things in check on the way there - is my path.

If you're a premed, looking down the barrel of 4 years of very large student loans to get through medical school, followed by 4 more years of those loans accruing interest while you're a resident, maybe leasing a 2009 anything isn't such a great idea.

Have you considered buying a 2007 anything instead?

i kept this car really really cheap. i've had brand new 300Zs, Saab 9-5s, Jeeps, this is an affordable car, maintenance covered for 36 months, im outta the car in 35 months (term of the lease). im happy with the decision. i guess there is always cheaper. wanted to make sure i had something safe for the 2 boys in the back too. feel good.

later all!
D712

 

[Jeff05]

the following is from consumer reports.
nissan received an 85 (out of top 89) and jetta scored somewhere in the mid 70.

JETTA
Road Test
The redesigned Jetta is larger and more expensive than its predecessor, and it approaches the family-sedan category in both price and interior room. High-quality interior appointments are still a strong suit. Power and handling have been improved, but the ride is a bit stiffer.
THE DRIVING EXPERIENCE
The ride is firm and taut, though not as absorbent as the previous Jetta. Road and wind noise are muted. The five-cylinder engine sounds a bit coarse when revved. The Jetta is more agile than its predecessor, with quicker steering and restrained body lean. The electric steering is a bit light at lower speeds. The tight 36-foot turning circle is handy. Emergency handling is stable and secure, and the Jetta, among the few cars in this class with ESC, posted an impressive speed through our avoidance maneuver. With its 150-hp, 2.5-liter five-cylinder engine, the Jetta is slightly quicker than some competing models, such as the Civic EX with an automatic transmission. Its unimpressive 24 mpg overall is 4 mpg less than the Civic EX with an automatic. The 6-speed automatic transmission is smooth but not as responsive as we would like. Low and high beams have good distance and intensity, but a sharp low-beam cutoff reduces visibility over dips.
INSIDE THE CABIN
Well-finished details and high-quality materials give the Jetta's interior an upscale feel. The vinyl seats are a convincing leather imitation. The driver sits high, and the steering wheel tilts and telescopes to help find a comfortable position. However, the center console intrudes on knee room, and the large roof pillars and head restraints create blind spots. The front seats are comfortable and supportive, with power recline but no cushion tilt adjustment. The rear seat has ample leg room. Wide door openings make access easy. Most controls are simple to use. However, some drivers confused the cruise-control and turn-signal stalks. Interior storage is moderate. The glove box and the center console have air conditioning vents to keep items cool.
SAFETY NOTES
Side-impact air bags housed in the seatbacks and head-protection air bags that extend to protect both front and rear seat outboard passengers are both standard in the Jetta. They supplement required front air bags and three-point seatbelts in all seating positions. The front seatbelts are equipped with adjustable upper anchors to get a comfortable and safe fit, as well as pretensioners and force limiters to reduce belt slack and forces in the event of a crash. An Advanced Air bag System senses passenger belt tension and passenger weight and turns off the front air bag if it senses the weight of a typical 1-year-old or smaller person. The system also initiates a "low risk" deployment if someone larger than a 1-year-old but smaller than an adult is seated on the passenger side or for smaller adults seated on the driver's side. side. The front air bags will not deploy if the passenger seat is unoccupied. If the front seatbelts are not fastened, the front air bags will deploy in a less severe crash condition. Side-impact air bags are an available option for the rear seat along with rear seatbelt pretensioners. There are adjustable, locking head restraints in all of the five seating positions and all but the center rear are tall enough even when fully lowered to reduce whiplash injury. The front head restraints tilt for better fit and are active; they move forward in response to the force from the occupant's body in a rear impact against the seatback. Daytime running lights are standard. Driving with kids: Some rear-facing infant bases may prove difficult to secure in the rear outboard seats when installed using the seatbelts as the belts are anchored forward of the seatback. Installation using the LATCH system or other infant seat models can produce a secure fit. Front-facing seats should prove secure and there are three tether strap anchors on the rear parcel shelf. The LATCH anchors in the rear outboard seats are visible and easy to access in notches at the rear of the seat cushion.
RELIABILITY
We expect reliability to be average, according to our latest subscriber survey.
Tested model: 2006 2.5 sedan, 2.5-liter Five, 6-speed automatic
Major options: Pkg. #1 w/power sunroof, cold weather pkg. & Sirius radio; 6-speed Tiptronic auto. transmission

This road test applies to the current model year of this vehicle.



ALTIMA
Road Test
The Altima is a well-rounded family sedan in both 2.5 S and 3.5 SE trim levels. Both the 2.5-liter four-cylinder and 3.5-liter V6 engines deliver very good performance while getting good mileage, due in part to the smooth continuously variable transmission (CVT). Both have responsive and secure handling. The sportier 3.5 SE handles more sharply but rides stiffly. Interior fit and finish has improved from the previous model, but the rear seat is less roomy. ABS is standard for 2008.
THE DRIVING EXPERIENCE
The 2.5 S rides well and absorbs impacts nicely, but the 3.5 SE feels jittery with stiff impacts. Wind and road noise are isolated, but the four-cylinder engine is louder than the V6. In corners the 3.5 SE is more agile and has less body lean than the 2.5 S, but both are competent. The 3.5 SE has hefty steering that gives better feedback and quicker response. The 39-foot turning circle in the 2.5 S is significantly tighter than on the previous Altima. Emergency handling is secure and predictable, with the 3.5 SE's increased tire grip resulting in more driver confidence and a higher speed in our avoidance maneuver. Both engines deliver strong acceleration yet get commendable fuel economy. The 175-hp, 2.5-liter four-cylinder accelerates better than some V6s and returned 25 mpg overall on regular fuel. Although it requires premium fuel, the smooth and punchy 270-hp, 3.5-liter V6 returns 23 mpg overall, comparable to some four-cylinder engines. Both are mated to a smooth CVT. The CVT has six predetermined gear ratios that can be accessed by moving the shifter to the slot on the left part of the shift quadrant. Braking performance is very good. Both halogen and HID low beams perform well, but have a sharp cutoff.
INSIDE THE CABIN
The Altima has nicely textured, well-fitting materials. Drivers have plenty of room in the cockpit, even with the optional sunroof. The steering wheel has an awkward telescope adjustment and coarse tilt settings. While rear visibility is hampered by a high rear deck, the 3.5 SE's optional backup camera works well. Both versions had comfortable and supportive front seats, with the 3.5 SE's leather ones offering better lower back support. The rear seat is a bit low and less roomy than the previous version and toe room is tight. Wide door openings make cabin access easy. All Altimas have a one-step keyless start system: Just push the button to start the car. The keyless fob contains a transmitter and can remain in your pocket or purse when you start the car and during driving. The Altima's bright backlighted gauges are easy to read. The controls are straightforward and the optional navigation system is easy to use. Interior storage is good, but the optional navigation system results in less space. The trunk is large, but it's a long reach to unlatch the 60/40-split folding seatbacks.
SAFETY NOTES
Front seatback-mounted-side impact air bags and curtain head-protection air bags, extending to protect front and rear outboard occupants, are both standard on the Altima. They supplement required front air bags and three-point seatbelts in all seating positions. The front seatbelts have adjustable upper anchors for improving comfort and safety and are equipped with pretensioners and force limiters to reduce the belt slack and forces in the event of a crash. An occupant classification system for the front passenger seat is designed to turn off the front air bag if it detects a child seated there, or if the seat is unoccupied. Front seatbelt buckle sensors detect if belts are in use to further influence the appropriate level of air bag deployment. Adjustable and locking head restraints in the front seats are tall enough even when lowered to adequately reduce rearward head travel from a rear impact. Integral restraints in the rear outboard seats are also tall enough, but the center rear seat lacks a restraint. Driving with kids: It may prove difficult to get a secure fit for rear-facing infant seats installed in the center rear seat; some rear-facing infant models may also be difficult to secure in the rear outboard seats using the seatbelts. Front-facing seats and seats installed using the LATCH system should prove secure. There are three top-tether anchors on the rear parcel shelf and LATCH anchors in the rear outboard seats. The LATCH anchors are recessed, making access to them a bit awkward to access.
RELIABILITY
We expect reliability to be average, according to our latest subscriber survey.
Tested model: 2007 2.5 S sedan, 2.5-liter Four, CVT
Major options: ABS, convenience package (driver power seat, auto headlights).

i think both cars are reasonable. i would go with the altima - roomier interior.

as far as land rover fans: these vehicles are among the best for offroad performance and transition to competent on pavement performance, as well. however, according to consumer reports their reliability is DISMAL. Lexus and Toyota (rovers) offer a great alternative - still great offroad and pavement with fantastic reliability, i much better value, also.
(

 

[Monty Python]

as far as land rover fans: these vehicles are among the best for offroad performance and transition to competent on pavement performance, as well. however, according to consumer reports their reliability is DISMAL. Lexus and Toyota (rovers) offer a great alternative - still great offroad and pavement with fantastic reliability, i much better value, also.
(

..... and Noyac says ...............

 

[narcusprince]

Why settle for the HSE? Get it supercharged!

BTW, if the only two cars to vote on are the Jetta or the Altima, I'd ride my bike.

Noy
I have to say that range rover is PHAAAAATTTTTT. Love it.

 

[Noyac]

Noy
I have to say that range rover is PHAAAAATTTTTT. Love it.

Which one?

I know, the other is a Land Rover not a Range Rover.

Trin, I have had a Land Rover since about 2001. I have had zero (I'm not kidding) problems with the exception of the self-inflicted problems. My dog chewed straight through a seat belt. I do all the work on the D90 myself and it has 90k miles. We have had the RRS for 2 1/2 yrs and the warrantee is great but fortunately I have not needed it.
The reason I drive Land Rovers is that I use them. I looked at the Toyota Landcruiser (btw I drove one of these b/4 I went to Land Rover and the engine blew) with every intention of getting it until I drove the RRS. I got the RRS for the same price as the Toyota but with better luxury, more HP(supercharged even), greater tow rating (we pull a camper), much much better offroad performance and we do use it offroad. But more importantly, it does everything we need it to do extremely well. If I lived in a big city however, I'd drive something else but I'd still own a LAnd Rover.
Just this year I made my D90 an offroad vehicle exclusively and needed a fulltime vehicle that could tow the D90 to events. I bought a Tundra b/c I have needed a pickup from time to time but I really considered an LR3.
Land Rover isn't for everyone but for those who "need" one they are awesome. I am not a poser with my vehicle, I use the hell out of them and they are dirty from top to bottom 90% of the time.

 

[doctor712]

Which one?

I know, the other is a Land Rover not a Range Rover.

Trin, I have had a Land Rover since about 2001. I have had zero (I'm not kidding) problems with the exception of the self-inflicted problems. My dog chewed straight through a seat belt. I do all the work on the D90 myself and it has 90k miles. We have had the RRS for 2 1/2 yrs and the warrantee is great but fortunately I have not needed it.
The reason I drive Land Rovers is that I use them. I looked at the Toyota Landcruiser (btw I drove one of these b/4 I went to Land Rover and the engine blew) with every intention of getting it until I drove the RRS. I got the RRS for the same price as the Toyota but with better luxury, more HP(supercharged even), greater tow rating (we pull a camper), much much better offroad performance and we do use it offroad. But more importantly, it does everything we need it to do extremely well. If I lived in a big city however, I'd drive something else but I'd still own a LAnd Rover.
Just this year I made my D90 an offroad vehicle exclusively and needed a fulltime vehicle that could tow the D90 to events. I bought a Tundra b/c I have needed a pickup from time to time but I really considered an LR3.
Land Rover isn't for everyone but for those who "need" one they are awesome. I am not a poser with my vehicle, I use the hell out of them and they are dirty from top to bottom 90% of the time.

If the only choice was a Tundra, I'd ride my bike!
J/Kidding Noyac!!!

(Now send me a post back saying my Jetta IS a bike and then we're good to go! )

 

[Noyac]

If the only choice was a Tundra, I'd ride my bike!
J/Kidding Noyac!!!

(Now send me a post back saying my Jetta IS a bike and then we're good to go! )

I have considered riding my bike. It's just that damned 30 min response time that kills me. I live 15 minutes away by petrol. And in my Land Rover and now Tundra, it doesn't matter if its warm and sunny out or dark and nukin, it's still 15 minutes.

I have a buddy that swears by his Jetta, even though it's a piece of ****.

To each his own, right?😉

 

[KNC]

You should put the new Camry into the mix as well..... I have 2008 Camry and its loaded great on the road great with gas... I am loving it!!! And it looks good..... Just a thought....I live in the 'burgh and it has done well with the snow and the hills.....

 

[maceo]

You should put the new Camry into the mix as well..... I have 2008 Camry and its loaded great on the road great with gas... I am loving it!!! And it looks good..... Just a thought....I live in the 'burgh and it has done well with the snow and the hills.....

there is no more boring of a car then a toyota.. argh...
might as well have no testicles

where are you going to AA school? in pittsburgh? do they have an aa school?

 

[doctor712]

long live noyac. may he and his Rover get 200K miles on one oil change!

 

[KNC]

there is no more boring of a car then a toyota.. argh...
might as well have no testicles

where are you going to AA school? in pittsburgh? do they have an aa school?

Hey!!!! Dont talk about my car!!!.....My car is hot!!!! I am going to have to close Camdens ears!!! He would be seriously hurt to hear you say that about him!!!

As far as school goes... I just got into Nova Southeasterns AA program that starts in June.....PA doesnt liscense AA's yet.

 

[Noyac]

My mistake. I thought you were kidding when you said you'd ride your bike, by your highlighted quote below, you weren't.



Yeah, whatever adds inches to your...interior cargo space/di$k...Noy. So much for my smiley faces and lighthearted replies. And a sense of humor.

Not sure which is more...well, for lack of a less respectful term, foolish: your general need to feel like your Rover is PHAT from behind an internet snap shot, or to cr@p on other people's new cars within an otherwise helpful thread?

I've got news for ya, VWs have a reputation for lasting 100K+ miles, doesn't sound too shi$$y. Which reminds me, you can add your definition of what makes a car shi$$y to the list of what's most *foolish* about your general "je ne sais quoi." I'm guessing: a car that lacks status, BOSE speakers, status, nav system, rims, status, chew marks, status and...did I say status? Here's what I think is shi$$y: spending $65K on a car that will get you no further (off or on the road)...than my wife's $24K Jeep Grand Cherokee. Though the Grand Cherokee doesn't have the nav system...granted.

Keep drinkin' the kool aid,
D712

My bad, D. I was totally joking around and I guess I should have been more liberal with the smiley faces. I sort of like the jetta's. I have no problem with them, they just are not for me. I meant my buddies jetta was a piece of ****, not the jetta's in general. Sorry. 😳

As far as the Rover goes, it's my wife's and you guys that are married understand that what the wife wants the wife gets. I just happen to like the truck a lot. And I'm confident that if you drove it you would as well. 😍

Like I said, if I lived in the city I'd (she'd) drive something else.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[doctor712]

in that case, will you marry me? 😍

sorry i took it the total wrong way, i was pretty harsh pretty quick. people here know im not that way. 😳

blast the void that is the internet. ill go edit my annoyed reply.

😍 😍

p.s. and if money were absolutely NO object, i'd be riding in a 1) loaded Porsche Cayenne or your 2) loaded Rover. How's that for ironic??? I think the car is as sharp as heck. But for now, I'm gonna pick me up my Jetta this week.

 

[Noyac]

in that case, will you marry me? 😍

sorry i took it the total wrong way, i was pretty harsh pretty quick. people here know im not that way. 😳

blast the void that is the internet. ill go edit my annoyed reply.

😍 😍

p.s. and if money were absolutely NO object, i'd be riding in a 1) loaded Porsche Cayenne or your 2) loaded Rover. How's that for ironic??? I think the car is as sharp as heck. But for now, I'm gonna pick me up my Jetta this week.

Sorry, already married.

As far as the Cayenne vs the Rover. The Cayenne has better on road performance while the Rover has better offroad performance. But if it would fit in my garage I'd get the full size Rover Supercharged. Its teh baddest of them all.

After all that, enjoy your Jetta. 😉

 

[newbie04]

Noy, those LR Defenders are sweet and they still hold their value real well...nice ride man.

 

[Hockeyguy]

Why settle for the HSE? Get it supercharged!

BTW, if the only two cars to vote on are the Jetta or the Altima, I'd ride my bike.

Sweet rides - I couldn't justify keeping the Landy McRooverson out here in STL. I had no real issues, mechanically, with mine either. The only problem was routine maintence was expensive. But I will gladly be paying that in about 17months. Don't hire anyone until then Noy!

 

[dhb]

you guys that are married understand that what the wife wants the wife gets.

i'm lucky my wife doesn't have an interest in cars.

 

[chosebeer]

If you have to lease you can't afford a car.

Why not buy a used 3 or 4 thousand dollar small Japanese car, and not barrow the rest of the fleece payments plus you will be able to keep the car till it dies and not be forced to fleece another car three to five years later.

You are a pre med student so every dollar you barrow now you will probably have to pay back five to ten dollars later, so that $20,000 Altima will end up costing you $100000 to $200000.

from; http://www.daveramsey.com/etc/askdave/index.cfm?event=dspAskDave&intContentItemId=10367

QUESTION: Listener asks Dave Ramsey to break down the mathematical flaws in a car lease.

ANSWER: A car fleece is basically renting a car. You pay $400 a month and at the end of the new car lease, you turn it back in. If you want to buy it, you are buying it for what they estimate at the beginning of the fleece to be the market value. At the end of the lease, it's called the residual value. If you pay $400 a month for 60 months, you pay $24,000 before turning it in. The car will not have gone down in value more than that, because the car companies would lose money if it did. When they get the car back, you will have paid them more than the car has depreciated during that time.

During that time, you're maintaining the car as if you owned it. You'll get charged for excessive wear and tear, or if you put too many miles on it. If you rent it for $24,000 and it went down $15,000 in value, then it cost me $9,000 to rent this car for this period of time. That is their profit during that time.

Another thing is that the interest rates on a vehicle lease are not disclosed because the Federal Trade Commission has determined that this is not a debt, so there is no federal disclosure involved. Therefore, you have no truth in lending disclosure sheet. The interest rates you get charged are unbelievably high. That's where you'll realize you got screwed over.

People get sold automobile leases because they are told that it's what sophisticated people do. But as it turns out, the car companies make more money on leasing you the car than if you bought the car with cash, according to the National Auto Dealers Association. Broke people think ‘how much down and how much a month'. Rich people think ‘how much'. If you can't pay cash for a car, then ride a bicycle. But don't lease a car.

 

[pseudoknot]

There is a lot of misinformation in the previous post, but it's true that you need to do your homework when leasing a car (just like when you buy). The interest rates are disclosed in the form of a money factor (multiply the money factor by 2400 to get the equivalent APR). Usually the interest will end up being about the same.

And yes, it's not a good idea to spend more than you can afford on anything...but everyone has their priorities.

 

[jetproppilot]

If you have to lease you can't afford a car.

Why not buy a used 3 or 4 thousand dollar small Japanese car, and not barrow the rest of the fleece payments plus you will be able to keep the car till it dies and not be forced to fleece another car three to five years later.

You are a pre med student so every dollar you barrow now you will probably have to pay back five to ten dollars later, so that $20,000 Altima will end up costing you $100000 to $200000.

from; http://www.daveramsey.com/etc/askdave/index.cfm?event=dspAskDave&intContentItemId=10367

QUESTION: Listener asks Dave Ramsey to break down the mathematical flaws in a car lease.

ANSWER: A car fleece is basically renting a car. You pay $400 a month and at the end of the new car lease, you turn it back in. If you want to buy it, you are buying it for what they estimate at the beginning of the fleece to be the market value. At the end of the lease, it's called the residual value. If you pay $400 a month for 60 months, you pay $24,000 before turning it in. The car will not have gone down in value more than that, because the car companies would lose money if it did. When they get the car back, you will have paid them more than the car has depreciated during that time.

During that time, you're maintaining the car as if you owned it. You'll get charged for excessive wear and tear, or if you put too many miles on it. If you rent it for $24,000 and it went down $15,000 in value, then it cost me $9,000 to rent this car for this period of time. That is their profit during that time.

Another thing is that the interest rates on a vehicle lease are not disclosed because the Federal Trade Commission has determined that this is not a debt, so there is no federal disclosure involved. Therefore, you have no truth in lending disclosure sheet. The interest rates you get charged are unbelievably high. That's where you'll realize you got screwed over.

People get sold automobile leases because they are told that it's what sophisticated people do. But as it turns out, the car companies make more money on leasing you the car than if you bought the car with cash, according to the National Auto Dealers Association. Broke people think ‘how much down and how much a month'. Rich people think ‘how much'. If you can't pay cash for a car, then ride a bicycle. But don't lease a car.

All that mumbo jumbo I can't really decipher, Slim, being a Florida Redneck Copenhagen Dipping Monsta Truck Driving dude and all...

but heres what I know:

a vehicle is not an INVESTMENT.

Its a waste of money.

The above line (the, uhhhhh, one that says ITS A WASTE OF MONEY) puts all your mumbo-jumbo to rest, since if you're smart, you realize that, and, well, if you wanna waste some money on a vehicle (alotta Americans, me included, gain alotta satisfaction from driving said vehicle...hell cranking up my monsta truck makes me smile),

why not?

You speak of renting a vehicle (aka leasing) as if its a bad rap.....and that owning is better.

Sorry I disagree.

Most people that don't have to worry about ownership cost have a new vehicle every 2-3 years so I don't see the big advantage of ownership over leasing.

Before I owned my monsta truck I leased......1996 Corvette, 1998 Chevy Tahoe 2D 4WD, 2000 Yukon, Hummer H2.....all leased.

Theres no upside to owning a vehicle unless you're into the esoteric (like monsta trucks) and even then theres no upside....

unless you consider the upside being A BIG SMILE EVERY TIME I GET IN THE MONSTA...

which is, of course,

PRICELESS.

 

[QofQuimica]

It's not reasonable to make a blanket statement that everyone should pay cash, never lease, etc. Besides affordability, you also have to factor in people's driving patterns and spending preferences. I am the kind of person who buys a car and uses it until it dies. I drive maybe 100 miles per week tops unless I'm going somewhere on vacation. If I bought a new car, I could keep it for a decade or more. It would clearly be a bad deal for someone like me to lease. But my sister gets a new car every 2-3 years. She uses all the miles in the lease, and when it's over, she turns the car in and gets a brand new one. If she owned the cars, she would wind up getting rid of them before getting her money's worth, probably before even paying off the loan. Plus, the wear and tear on the car would far exceed the average for a car that age. For her, leasing is a much more sensible option than buying.

We had another thread a while back about buying real estate as an investment. We didn't all agree on whether to buy or rent as residents, but at least it's a fair debate with good points on both sides. But we can probably all agree that buying a car is not like buying a house. Cars depreciate as soon as you drive them off the lot. Whether you buy or rent the car, it's not going to be an investment, because you *are* losing money on it. There's no one right way to lose money. 🙂

 

[chosebeer]

Doctor712 is a premed student at least five years from internship, and eight to nine year from being an attending. He will have five years of living off student loans and three to four years to live off the relatively low salary most residents earn. What if Obama manages to socialize medicine and ruin the economy as he clearly is about to do with the Stimulus bill which with the next out of control spending spree, to come will cause inflation and lower physicians wages. Thus making paying off your student loans a significant burden.

 

[pseudoknot]

What if Obama manages to socialize medicine and ruin the economy as he clearly is about to do with the Stimulus bill ...

Oh good, I'm glad someone brought up this highly relevant issue, because we can't have a politics-free thread in this forum. And yes, clearly the stimulus will be a disaster; just look at how well we've done after the Bush tax cuts!

 

[Baller MD]

doctor712,

Do yourself a favor and get a used car. You can get a good deal on 05, 06 G35s right now if you're into those kinds of cars... I would say you can probably find a 30k mileage one for about 18k.

IMO, buying new really never made sense.

 

[2ndyear]

If you have to lease you can’t afford a car.

Why not buy a used 3 or 4 thousand dollar small Japanese car, and not barrow the rest of the fleece payments plus you will be able to keep the car till it dies and not be forced to fleece another car three to five years later.

You are a pre med student so every dollar you barrow now you will probably have to pay back five to ten dollars later, so that $20,000 Altima will end up costing you $100000 to $200000.

from; http://www.daveramsey.com/etc/askdave/index.cfm?event=dspAskDave&intContentItemId=10367

QUESTION: Listener asks Dave Ramsey to break down the mathematical flaws in a car lease.

ANSWER: A car fleece is basically renting a car. You pay $400 a month and at the end of the new car lease, you turn it back in. If you want to buy it, you are buying it for what they estimate at the beginning of the fleece to be the market value. At the end of the lease, it’s called the residual value. If you pay $400 a month for 60 months, you pay $24,000 before turning it in. The car will not have gone down in value more than that, because the car companies would lose money if it did. When they get the car back, you will have paid them more than the car has depreciated during that time.

During that time, you’re maintaining the car as if you owned it. You’ll get charged for excessive wear and tear, or if you put too many miles on it. If you rent it for $24,000 and it went down $15,000 in value, then it cost me $9,000 to rent this car for this period of time. That is their profit during that time.

Another thing is that the interest rates on a vehicle lease are not disclosed because the Federal Trade Commission has determined that this is not a debt, so there is no federal disclosure involved. Therefore, you have no truth in lending disclosure sheet. The interest rates you get charged are unbelievably high. That’s where you’ll realize you got screwed over.

People get sold automobile leases because they are told that it’s what sophisticated people do. But as it turns out, the car companies make more money on leasing you the car than if you bought the car with cash, according to the National Auto Dealers Association. Broke people think ‘how much down and how much a month’. Rich people think ‘how much’. If you can’t pay cash for a car, then ride a bicycle. But don’t lease a car.

As stated, interest rates are disclosed and can range from very good to terrible. Used car loans aren't exactly cheap right now interest rate wise. There are lots of sites online to read about leasing, and if you go in informed you can get a good deal. It rarely makes sense to buy the car at the end of a lease, and most people know this. Where it does make sense is someone who buys a new car every 3 years, and trades at the dealer. You will never get real value by trading in, never. And selling cars is a big hassle for some people. Your best deal is to pay in cash for a 1 year old used car, drive it until the warranty is up and then sell it outright. But not everyone can do this at every stage of life.

I did play the 'drive it into the ground' game in college and med school. Honestly I probably would have been better off leasing. I drove 2 vehicles literally until they died on the road and had to be towed to the dealer that gave me around $500. To buy another piece of crap used car. Somewhere in there I replaced a transmission for $2000 as well. Not to mention the tires, brakes, and other wear parts that needed replacing. Those add up. One great part of a lease is that if you need a new wiper blade, you go to the dealer. Done. Free, and they wash the car while you wait.

 

[DO4lifer]

the car is awesome. spacious, has a luxurious feel without the price tag, and great power. at least worth a test drive!

 

[QofQuimica]

Doctor712 is a premed student at least five years from internship, and eight to nine year from being an attending. He will have five years of living off student loans and three to four years to live off the relatively low salary most residents earn. What if Obama manages to socialize medicine and ruin the economy as he clearly is about to do with the Stimulus bill which with the next out of control spending spree, to come will cause inflation and lower physicians wages. Thus making paying off your student loans a significant burden.

What if you walk out of your house and get struck by a bus? There are many uncertainties in life, and you can't live your whole life in fear wondering what if. You make the best decision you can with the incomplete and imperfect information that you have at the time. Yes, doctor712 is a premed. But he's also a nontrad, not a college kid, and he has this thing called a J-O-B. Truth be told, none of us knows all the particulars of his financial situation, so you're really not in a position to tell him that leasing is definitely a "wrong" decision in his case. Just for the record, I'm not knocking the point you're making (i.e., that many people would come out financially ahead if they bought a used car rather than leasing). It's just the absoluteness of your posts that *everyone* should do what you and that dude you quoted says is best.

As jet pointed out above, people have different values. To me (and maybe you), a car is just a means to get me from point A to point B. I enjoy looking at other people's Harleys, classic cars, and Dodge Vipers, but have never had the desire to own one. To other people, a car is more than just a means of transportation. If they can afford it and that is how they prefer to spend their extra money, why shouldn't they? No doubt some of the things you or I really enjoy having would be considered frivolous and a waste of money by others who don't care about those things. I'm guessing my Persian rugs would probably top some people's lists. But I like having them anyway, even though machine-made rugs from Wal-Mart would have been a lot cheaper and no doubt just as serviceable. 🙂

 

[doctor712]

doctor712,

Do yourself a favor and get a used car. You can get a good deal on 05, 06 G35s right now if you're into those kinds of cars... I would say you can probably find a 30k mileage one for about 18k.

IMO, buying new really never made sense.

I think my VW came in at 19K. So, same price, included maintenance, no hassles, worries. I'd rather than that a used G35 that has bells and whistles and, potentially, more worries. Remember, premed here. I've got bigger things to worry about than a Nav system. 😀

Thanks for everyone's replies!!! I pick up the car tomorrow at 1pm. Very happy.

 

[chosebeer]

I think my VW came in at 19K. So, same price, included maintenance, no hassles, worries. I'd rather than that a used G35 that has bells and whistles and, potentially, more worries. Remember, premed here. I've got bigger things to worry about than a Nav system. 😀

Thanks for everyone's replies!!! I pick up the car tomorrow at 1pm. Very happy.

"I think my VW came in at 19K. I pick up the car tomorrow at 1pm."

19K for what?, If you are leasing, who cares what the total new price of the car is, all you have to know is the details of the lease, down payment ,monthly payment, length of lease, allowable miles and residual value at the end of the lease. For those of us who never buy a new car and have never had a lease, please help us out with the term you got on you lease.

 

[doctor712]

"I think my VW came in at 19K. I pick up the car tomorrow at 1pm."

19K for what?, If you are leasing, who cares what the total new price of the car is, all you have to know is the details of the lease, down payment ,monthly payment, length of lease, allowable miles and residual value at the end of the lease. For those of us who never buy a new car and have never had a lease, please help us out with the term you got on you lease.

Sure,

Sticker Price: $18600
Buy Back price at end of lease: $10,000
Cost of Lease $8600
8600/36 = $238 (per month)...
BUT I paid 1st month, fees (DMV etc) for a total of 1495 a signing.
8600-1495 = 7105
7105/35 (paid first month) = 203.
My exact payment = 216 a month.
So, add interest on lease at X and you go from 203 to 216 a month for 35 months (13 X 35 = 455, I'm not sure of what the rate was, all I knew is if that's what they wanted to jack me up, they can take 455).
That's my EXACT deal. And the deal walked out with.
I don't play fuzzy math games. They stop at my wallet. : )

And actually, I disagree. If you know how to negotiate, you can talk down the lease price (monthly payment) by starting at the cost of the car. The price of the car has as much to do with the monthly payment of a lease as your residual, mileage all that stuff. Thus the reason I pay 200 a month for my car, and a BMW 750 may cost 800.

I understand people usually just negotiate what their monthly payment is when dealing with a lease. But you can absolutely negotiate buy back, miles.

So, 19K for the price of the car. To answer the question. Of which, 10K is what I buy the rest of the car for at the end of the lease if I want. So, I'm paying out of pocket about 11400 over 36 months. I think that's wiser than 19K on a used car. For me at least.

D712