Job Market Effects on Current Attendings

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
qwerty89 said:
As the job market worsens each faculty member will be forced to do more work for the same or less pay. One way of mitigating this is adding more cheap labor (i.e. residents). As more residents graduate the year the job market worsens. As the job market worsens each faculty member will be forced to do more work for the same or less pay. One way of mitigating this is adding more cheap labor (i.e. residents). As more residents graduate the year the job market worsens...
Click to expand...

Sounds like...elementary school economics.
Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 3 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Not entirely crazy. At one point, one of the hospitals I was working for was about 10K total behind (for 5 months) on my base salary. Eventually, they had a junior HR person apologize me and repay. They did not repay interest or unmet retirement contributions... Probably, pure incompetence.

taserlaser said:
Don’t feel like starting a new thread for this as it seems tangentially related, but mods feel free to move as necessary. And I may regret posting this but man oh man is this frustrating me to no end and I feel the need to rant.

So doing a fellowship, that’s been established here on SDN already, etc etc. Waiting for something to come up locally, and not that there’s much options now, although this is making me rethink that seriously. Because of the whole university/hospital/department bureaucracy, I have yet to see a drop of my salary since I started. I’ve been pestering them since day 1 with my banking info, etc etc. It took just over 2 months and the same afternoon I called a lawyer, I finally saw a modest research stipend hand delivered from the organization president. The promise was that it salary would be back paid starting a few weeks from then, as someone went on sick leave, yada yada, so called the lawyer back and left things as is. So that was a month ago, and following up on things then things STILL had not been submitted or processed. Ring things up the chain of command again and all I get this time from the dept head are shoulders shrug and the option of a personal cheque from the group to tide things over until the hospital starts depositing my paycheck, at which I would repay it. Obviously not solving problems, but a token gesture. I should say I started July 1.

So still following up on payroll after having the appearence of my file being actually worked on, and again I’m getting slowrolled. HR had no record of me until beginning of this week, and yet I’ve had a hospital ID, EMR access, license, and malpractice, orientation, everything. All the while I’m working my tail off and impressing the staff and my preceptors, of which reassure me the money is there, and just it’s the usual bureaucratic nonsense.

There might be a spot opening up here, which would be OK paycheck notwithstanding, as it’s a large city with excellent work being done. I would need references either way. We all know RO is a hella small field. So I’m grinning and bearing it as much as possible without a desire to aggressively escalate (but will happen at some point if this isn’t resolved for whatever reason). In any other sector or field this would be hella illegal and unprofessional. I really do feel used and abused at the moment, as there’s a huge power imbalance and lack of options for me to just get up and file a wage claim while working here, for fear of reprisal. The situation is absolute nonsense.

The point of this post, apart from therapeutic ranting, is not specifically the not getting paid part, or the bureaucratic nonsense of the health system. That will be sorted out one way or another. But rather, emphasizing another aspect of the lack of job fluidity and options even allows for this sort of situation to even be remotely possible or ‘acceptable’ as I seem to be dealing with it. Because if there were other reasonable options open close to home/family I would have taken them up a while back, believe me.

(This should remain unsaid too, but please don’t make an attempt to name/shame/dox - all I will say this is a big research institution that you likely have heard of, but probably not the one you are thinking of.)
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Angry
Reactions: 2 users
taserlaser said:
Don’t feel like starting a new thread for this as it seems tangentially related, but mods feel free to move as necessary. And I may regret posting this but man oh man is this frustrating me to no end and I feel the need to rant.

So doing a fellowship, that’s been established here on SDN already, etc etc. Waiting for something to come up locally, and not that there’s much options now, although this is making me rethink that seriously. Because of the whole university/hospital/department bureaucracy, I have yet to see a drop of my salary since I started. I’ve been pestering them since day 1 with my banking info, etc etc. It took just over 2 months and the same afternoon I called a lawyer, I finally saw a modest research stipend hand delivered from the organization president. The promise was that it salary would be back paid starting a few weeks from then, as someone went on sick leave, yada yada, so called the lawyer back and left things as is. So that was a month ago, and following up on things then things STILL had not been submitted or processed. Ring things up the chain of command again and all I get this time from the dept head are shoulders shrug and the option of a personal cheque from the group to tide things over until the hospital starts depositing my paycheck, at which I would repay it. Obviously not solving problems, but a token gesture. I should say I started July 1.

So still following up on payroll after having the appearence of my file being actually worked on, and again I’m getting slowrolled. HR had no record of me until beginning of this week, and yet I’ve had a hospital ID, EMR access, license, and malpractice, orientation, everything. All the while I’m working my tail off and impressing the staff and my preceptors, of which reassure me the money is there, and just it’s the usual bureaucratic nonsense.

There might be a spot opening up here, which would be OK paycheck notwithstanding, as it’s a large city with excellent work being done. I would need references either way. We all know RO is a hella small field. So I’m grinning and bearing it as much as possible without a desire to aggressively escalate (but will happen at some point if this isn’t resolved for whatever reason). In any other sector or field this would be hella illegal and unprofessional. I really do feel used and abused at the moment, as there’s a huge power imbalance and lack of options for me to just get up and file a wage claim while working here, for fear of reprisal. The situation is absolute nonsense.

The point of this post, apart from therapeutic ranting, is not specifically the not getting paid part, or the bureaucratic nonsense of the health system. That will be sorted out one way or another. But rather, emphasizing another aspect of the lack of job fluidity and options even allows for this sort of situation to even be remotely possible or ‘acceptable’ as I seem to be dealing with it. Because if there were other reasonable options open close to home/family I would have taken them up a while back, believe me.

(This should remain unsaid too, but please don’t make an attempt to name/shame/dox - all I will say this is a big research institution that you likely have heard of, but probably not the one you are thinking of.)
Click to expand...

WOW sounds like you are straight up being scammed. Welcome to the new rad onc where academic departments dont even pay you and people are so nasty petty and vindictive that people are afraid to even cause a fuss about being paid. Really great field people. Good luck in the match!!!

we really need to attract moe people into this field. I mean who would not want to be surrounded by such great people!
 
  • Like
  • Angry
Reactions: 2 users
taserlaser said:
Don’t feel like starting a new thread for this as it seems tangentially related, but mods feel free to move as necessary. And I may regret posting this but man oh man is this frustrating me to no end and I feel the need to rant.

So doing a fellowship, that’s been established here on SDN already, etc etc. Waiting for something to come up locally, and not that there’s much options now, although this is making me rethink that seriously. Because of the whole university/hospital/department bureaucracy, I have yet to see a drop of my salary since I started. I’ve been pestering them since day 1 with my banking info, etc etc. It took just over 2 months and the same afternoon I called a lawyer, I finally saw a modest research stipend hand delivered from the organization president. The promise was that it salary would be back paid starting a few weeks from then, as someone went on sick leave, yada yada, so called the lawyer back and left things as is. So that was a month ago, and following up on things then things STILL had not been submitted or processed. Ring things up the chain of command again and all I get this time from the dept head are shoulders shrug and the option of a personal cheque from the group to tide things over until the hospital starts depositing my paycheck, at which I would repay it. Obviously not solving problems, but a token gesture. I should say I started July 1.

So still following up on payroll after having the appearence of my file being actually worked on, and again I’m getting slowrolled. HR had no record of me until beginning of this week, and yet I’ve had a hospital ID, EMR access, license, and malpractice, orientation, everything. All the while I’m working my tail off and impressing the staff and my preceptors, of which reassure me the money is there, and just it’s the usual bureaucratic nonsense.

There might be a spot opening up here, which would be OK paycheck notwithstanding, as it’s a large city with excellent work being done. I would need references either way. We all know RO is a hella small field. So I’m grinning and bearing it as much as possible without a desire to aggressively escalate (but will happen at some point if this isn’t resolved for whatever reason). In any other sector or field this would be hella illegal and unprofessional. I really do feel used and abused at the moment, as there’s a huge power imbalance and lack of options for me to just get up and file a wage claim while working here, for fear of reprisal. The situation is absolute nonsense.

The point of this post, apart from therapeutic ranting, is not specifically the not getting paid part, or the bureaucratic nonsense of the health system. That will be sorted out one way or another. But rather, emphasizing another aspect of the lack of job fluidity and options even allows for this sort of situation to even be remotely possible or ‘acceptable’ as I seem to be dealing with it. Because if there were other reasonable options open close to home/family I would have taken them up a while back, believe me.

(This should remain unsaid too, but please don’t make an attempt to name/shame/dox - all I will say this is a big research institution that you likely have heard of, but probably not the one you are thinking of.)
Click to expand...

F that. Don't get paid, don't show up. Once you showed up without getting paid, they figured they could do whatever they want to you. Give an inch, give a light year in this business. This is straight up exploitation and a waste of everybody's time. I would personally bail and babysit linacs while you still can and interview for full-time jobs. I made 50k in a month doing that, which is probably how much you'll make the whole year in "fellowship"

You need to walk into HR today, CALMLY (this is key) explain your situation and demand to be put on the payroll and get benefits immediately, then sit down in the director's office and say "I'll wait." And don't leave until they fix it or security takes you out. If security takes you out, I would think you have grounds for a lawsuit and collect damages. If you are in a 1-party consent state for recording, then record everything on your cellphone without them knowing. If you're in a 2 party state, tell them you are recording on tape. If you are a minority, I would play that card too. Fight fire with fire. I have zero tolerance for this kind of nonsense and always speak my mind when I see it. It has gotten me in trouble in the past, but screw it. Principles are more important. There are other ways of putting food lamb biryani on the table if need be.

I would also demand interest on the back pay at the going rate.

Med students? You paying attention? Or are you all glued to your google spreadsheet with the blind leading the blind with spurious optimism?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
My guess is that because no Rad Onc fellowships are ACGME accredited there is some mix up as to who actually pays you, i.e. GME or the department directly. These huge health systems have multiple different layers of bureaucracy. The physician group is separate from the hospital which is separate from the University, etc... None of them want to be the one to pay you. My guess is the Physician groups wants the University to pay you as a "student", but really you're just a doc being exploited so you probably should be paid by the physician group.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
F!

You hard. I’d be afraid you’d go all Michael Douglas in “Falling Down”.

KHE88 said:
F that. Don't get paid, don't show up. Once you showed up without getting paid, they figured they could do whatever they want to you. Give an inch, give a light year in this business. This is straight up exploitation and a waste of everybody's time. I would personally bail and babysit linacs while you still can and interview for full-time jobs. I made 50k in a month doing that, which is probably how much you'll make the whole year in "fellowship"

You need to walk into HR today, CALMLY (this is key) explain your situation and demand to be put on the payroll and get benefits immediately, then sit down in the director's office and say "I'll wait." And don't leave until they fix it or security takes you out. If security takes you out, I would think you have grounds for a lawsuit and collect damages. If you are in a 1-party consent state for recording, then record everything on your cellphone without them knowing. If you're in a 2 party state, tell them you are recording on tape. If you are a minority, I would play that card too. Fight fire with fire. I have zero tolerance for this kind of nonsense and always speak my mind when I see it. It has gotten me in trouble in the past, but screw it. Principles are more important. There are other ways of putting food on the table if need be.

I would also demand interest on the back pay at the going rate.

Med students? You paying attention? Or are you all glued to your google spreadsheet with the blind leading the blind with spurious optimism?
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
KHE88 said:
F that. Don't get paid, don't show up. Once you showed up without getting paid, they figured they could do whatever they want to you. Give an inch, give a light year in this business. This is straight up exploitation and a waste of everybody's time. I would personally bail and babysit linacs while you still can and interview for full-time jobs. I made 50k in a month doing that, which is probably how much you'll make the whole year in "fellowship"

You need to walk into HR today, CALMLY (this is key) explain your situation and demand to be put on the payroll and get benefits immediately, then sit down in the director's office and say "I'll wait." And don't leave until they fix it or security takes you out. If security takes you out, I would think you have grounds for a lawsuit and collect damages. If you are in a 1-party consent state for recording, then record everything on your cellphone without them knowing. If you're in a 2 party state, tell them you are recording on tape. If you are a minority, I would play that card too. Fight fire with fire. I have zero tolerance for this kind of nonsense and always speak my mind when I see it. It has gotten me in trouble in the past, but screw it. Principles are more important. There are other ways of putting food on the table if need be.

I would also demand interest on the back pay at the going rate.

Med students? You paying attention? Or are you all glued to your google spreadsheet with the blind leading the blind with spurious optimism?
Click to expand...

I have to second this. You need to stand up for yourself. This is part of the reason our field (and physicians in general) are getting stomped on. Quite frankly because we are willing to take it.

How long are you going to be able to make it without a paycheck? If you have to bail to locums you better get the ball rolling soon. It takes time to get state licenses and DEA registration. I went three months without a paycheck. I fortunately had saving and credit that lasted me but had it gone on any further I would not have been able to pay my rent.
 
KHE88 said:
F that. Don't get paid, don't show up. Once you showed up without getting paid, they figured they could do whatever they want to you. Give an inch, give a light year in this business. This is straight up exploitation and a waste of everybody's time. I would personally bail and babysit linacs while you still can and interview for full-time jobs. I made 50k in a month doing that, which is probably how much you'll make the whole year in "fellowship"

You need to walk into HR today, CALMLY (this is key) explain your situation and demand to be put on the payroll and get benefits immediately, then sit down in the director's office and say "I'll wait." And don't leave until they fix it or security takes you out. If security takes you out, I would think you have grounds for a lawsuit and collect damages. If you are in a 1-party consent state for recording, then record everything on your cellphone without them knowing. If you're in a 2 party state, tell them you are recording on tape. If you are a minority, I would play that card too. Fight fire with fire. I have zero tolerance for this kind of nonsense and always speak my mind when I see it. It has gotten me in trouble in the past, but screw it. Principles are more important. There are other ways of putting food on the table if need be.

I would also demand interest on the back pay at the going rate.

Med students? You paying attention? Or are you all glued to your google spreadsheet with the blind leading the blind with spurious optimism?
Click to expand...

I completely disagree. The reason he's there isn't for the petty fellow pay but its for the hope of landing a job. I say stick it out until you financially can. If you decide to not show up or sue you're not getting a job there period.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
XRT_doc said:
I completely disagree. The reason he's there isn't for the petty fellow pay but its for the hope of landing a job. I say stick it out until you financially can. If you decide to not show up or sue you're not getting a job there period.
Click to expand...
If it is at that specific institution, agree
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
ROFallingDown said:
F!

You hard. I’d be afraid you’d go all Michael Douglas in “Falling Down”.
Click to expand...

It probably won't surprise anyone here that that's one of my top 5 favorite movies.

XRT_doc said:
I completely disagree. The reason he's there isn't for the petty fellow pay but its for the hope of landing a job. I say stick it out until you financially can. If you decide to not show up or sue you're not getting a job there period.
Click to expand...

I mean, I get it. You have to play the game if location is THAT important to you.
This is a shining example of how exploitative this business can be when the hospital knows you will do anything to not have to move.
Do you really want to work for a place that does this? I'm well aware I would get fired in many places for telling administration where to go if they try to abuse me. One of the major reasons I went into medicine as a naive 23 year old was to avoid the corporate culture rat race where you are easily replaceable. Pretty much the only way to get this now is to stick it out in a rural area until you can become an owner somewhere.

Med students who are thinking they will go into this field and have an awesome career in a big city making a lot of money and not have to worry about being replaced by someone willing to work for less are delusional. It's not going to happen. That Colorado job trying to pay their employees with the privilege of living in Colorado (you know, and just pocket the rest) is glaring evidence of this. And that's in Colorado, which is only mildly competitive to the large coastal cities.
 
KHE88 said:
It probably won't surprise anyone here that that's one of my top 5 favorite movies.



I mean, I get it. You have to play the game if location is THAT important to you.
This is a shining example of how exploitative this business can be when the hospital knows you will do anything to not have to move.
Do you really want to work for a place that does this? I'm well aware I would get fired in many places for telling administration where to go if they try to abuse me. One of the major reasons I went into medicine as a naive 23 year old was to avoid the corporate culture rat race where you are easily replaceable. Pretty much the only way to get this now is to stick it out in a rural area until you can become an owner somewhere.

Med students who are thinking they will go into this field and have an awesome career in a big city making a lot of money and not have to worry about being replaced by someone willing to work for less are delusional. It's not going to happen. That Colorado job trying to pay their employees with the privilege of living in Colorado (you know, and just pocket the rest) is glaring evidence of this. And that's in Colorado, which is only mildly competitive to the large coastal cities.
Click to expand...

Most of medicine is following suite and becoming employed too. Don't think thats just specific to radonc. Most primary cares are getting employed because they can't cover their overhead.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
XRT_doc said:
I disagree with you. Most administrators will not want to let you go if you're a good established radonc. The admins want continuity of care within their hospital and so do the referring physicians. Unless of course your hospitals doing poorly financially and the issue of the hospitals viability is at stake, then yes I would be worried in that situation.
Click to expand...

This is more in line with my thinking. Not only does my institution place a lot of value on continuity of care, but I think there's a lot that I provide outside of cold hard cash. I was the interim medical director for two years without a pay bump, for example. The development team frequently has me give potential donors a tour of our new treatment facilities and discuss all the cool bells and whistles, and I frequently go to fundraisers and give talks. Etc. While I sympathize with the sentiment that everyone is expendable if the price is right, I maintain some optimism that some institutions are not as malignant as this (I don't believe mine is), or at least prices in some of the other perks of continuity.

Full disclosure, I practice in a semi-rural area that can sometimes have difficulty recruiting. Also priced in.
 
Well, sorry for pointing it out, being a medical director X 2 years without a stipend is being short-changed. Imagine if you had to be dragged into resolving some sort of misadministration-type of event with the state, or an overbilling problem, without corresponding compensation.

yeasterbunny said:
This is more in line with my thinking. Not only does my institution place a lot of value on continuity of care, but I think there's a lot that I provide outside of cold hard cash. I was the interim medical director for two years without a pay bump, for example. The development team frequently has me give potential donors a tour of our new treatment facilities and discuss all the cool bells and whistles, and I frequently go to fundraisers and give talks. Etc. While I sympathize with the sentiment that everyone is expendable if the price is right, I maintain some optimism that some institutions are not as malignant as this (I don't believe mine is), or at least prices in some of the other perks of continuity.

Full disclosure, I practice in a semi-rural area that can sometimes have difficulty recruiting. Also priced in.
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
seper said:
Well, sorry for pointing it out, being a medical director X 2 years without a stipend is being short-changed. Imagine if you had to be dragged into resolving some sort of misadministration-type of event with the state, or an overbilling problem, without corresponding compensation.
Click to expand...

I've seen this sort of uncompensated (or minimally compensated) leadership in academics many times. This includes satellite directors who build up the practice at satellites. The department chairs and higher leaders will tell you that you have to contribute to the community to get promoted.
 
In a pure university-employed practice, the Chair usually acts as a sort of medical director for everyone. If something goes badly, he/or she will have no choice but intervene. He/or she will often try to weasel out of this responsibility :)
In a private-practice, hospital-employed model, there has to be a clearly defined medical director for each site. I believe it comes from some sort of regulation.

Neuronix said:
I've seen this sort of uncompensated (or minimally compensated) leadership in academics many times. This includes satellite directors who build up the practice at satellites. The department chairs and higher leaders will tell you that you have to contribute to the community to get promoted.
Click to expand...
 
XRT_doc said:
Most of medicine is following suite and becoming employed too. Don't think thats just specific to radonc. Most primary cares are getting employed because they can't cover their overhead.
Click to expand...
But the pcps are getting good deals, salary wise. Hospitalists 7 on/7 off making $350k. Employed outpatient only pcps doing well too, compared to the crap HCA is offering
 
medgator said:
But the pcps are getting good deals, salary wise. Hospitalists 7 on/7 off making $350k. Employed outpatient only pcps doing well too, compared to the crap HCA is offering
Click to expand...

What is HCA offering? I don't see it on their post on Astro career center.
 
XRT_doc said:
Most of medicine is following suite and becoming employed too. Don't think thats just specific to radonc. Most primary cares are getting employed because they can't cover their overhead.
Click to expand...

This is whataboutism. Yes, other very subspecialized fields also feel the squeeze in competitive markets. This has nothing to do with the situation in rad onc. Primary care doctors haven't had their incomes suddenly slashed from 700k to 350k. If anything, their incomes have gone up. It's to the point now where rad oncs are making no more or less than PCPs in ultra competitive markets. And PCPs aren't producing millions in revenue in billing and only getting a portion of that like rad oncs.

Bottom line, situation with rad onc is way worse than other subspecialities. They may be hurting too, but we're in much worse shape.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
KHE88 said:
This is whataboutism. Yes, other very subspecialized fields also feel the squeeze in competitive markets. This has nothing to do with the situation in rad onc. Primary care doctors haven't had their incomes suddenly slashed from 700k to 350k. If anything, their incomes have gone up. It's to the point now where rad oncs are making no more or less than PCPs in ultra competitive markets. And PCPs aren't producing millions in revenue in billing and only getting a portion of that like rad oncs.

Bottom line, situation with rad onc is way worse than other subspecialities. They may be hurting too, but we're in much worse shape.
Click to expand...

Man these posts look depressing, makes me want to stop checking studentdoctor. I guess I should be thankful for my good gig. For what it's worth I'm making >600K in a city listed as within the top 10 in the U.S. for population.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
XRT_doc said:
Man these posts look depressing, makes me want to stop checking studentdoctor. I guess I should be thankful for my good gig. For what it's worth I'm making >600K in a city listed as within the top 10 in the U.S. for population.
Click to expand...
Similar situation in a smaller metro. Stay where you are and make yourself needed and indispensable.

There is no lateraling in rad onc in your situation in the current environment, unfortunately.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 3 users
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
XRT_doc said:
I guess I should be thankful for my good gig. For what it's worth I'm making >600K in a city listed as within the top 10 in the U.S. for population.
Click to expand...

You hiring?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
DukeNukem said:
You hiring?
Click to expand...

So the way the contracts are made now-a-days is that a the bonus is based on volume you see. This is a huge disincentive for a new person to be hired, since they would cut into my bonus which is RVU based. For example I get an extra $60 per rvu when I see patients beyond my base. This translates to about 2-4K extra per patient that I see. I therefore wouldn't want another doctor hired. I'll bet you this has affected the hiring of new graduates as well.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 1 users
XRT_doc said:
So the way the contracts are made now-a-days is that a the bonus is based on volume you see. This is a huge disincentive for a new person to be hired, since they would cut into my bonus which is RVU based. For example I get an extra $60 per rvu when I see patients beyond my base. This translates to about 2-4K extra per patient that I see. I therefore wouldn't want another doctor hired. I'll bet you this has affected the hiring of new graduates as well.
Click to expand...
Same thing on the private side. Hypofx has allowed many of us to see many more patients per year, counteracting the crapola that was published in academia several years ago about there being a shortage at this point.

Honestly they've zigged when they should have zagged. Probably should have frozen spots well before CShah's editorial came out in 2013, instead they've created this CF of a situation with expansion that's only getting exacerbated with CMS supervision rollback and APM
 
XRT_doc said:
So the way the contracts are made now-a-days is that a the bonus is based on volume you see. This is a huge disincentive for a new person to be hired, since they would cut into my bonus which is RVU based. For example I get an extra $60 per rvu when I see patients beyond my base. This translates to about 2-4K extra per patient that I see. I therefore wouldn't want another doctor hired. I'll bet you this has affected the hiring of new graduates as well.
Click to expand...

basically in a lot of these great jobs in “top” cities with 500+ income, graduates are basically waiting for a partner to be found dead at age 86 while checking cone beams (MI from eating too much baby fatty tortured sheep biriyani with lots of ghee) And that is assuming his younger partners may even offer the job. They may even decide to work a bit harder and just take all the profit. Aint our field great, canaries?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
thecarbonionangle said:
basically in a lot of these great jobs in “top” cities with 500+ income, graduates are basically waiting for a partner to be found dead at age 86 while checking cone beams (MI from eating too much baby fatty tortured sheep biriyani with lots of ghee) And that is assuming his younger partners may even offer the job. They may even decide to work a bit harder and just take all the profit. Aint our field great, canaries?
Click to expand...

Agreed, and I'm in my mid 30s so It'll be another 50 years before I retire. Honestly the gig is great if you have a good job in a good city. What other field can you make >600K working 40 hours a week with essentially no real call. And now that locums are a dime a dozen you can easily go on vacation and hire a locum. It's the chairs who made the field crappy by pumping out so many graduates that there are no jobs for them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
XRT_doc said:
Agreed, and I'm in my mid 30s so It'll be another 50 years before I retire. Honestly the gig is great if you have a good job in a good city. What other field can you make >600K working 40 hours a week with essentially no real call. And now that locums are a dime a dozen you can easily go on vacation and hire a locum. It's the chairs who made the field crappy by pumping out so many graduates that there are no jobs for them.
Click to expand...

absolutely, undoubtedly you are in an absolutely enviable position. Most of us would love your job and you know that. You aren’t going anywhere either because you’re a healthy chap in your 30s who will also work into his 80s. Thats a pretty cool position to be in... and a bad position for me to be in!
 
  • Angry
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
thecarbonionangle said:
absolutely, undoubtedly you are in an absolutely enviable position. Most of us would love your job and you know that. You aren’t going anywhere either because you’re a healthy chap in your 30s who will also work into his 80s. Thats a pretty cool position to be in... and a bad position for me to be in!
Click to expand...

What's sad is that the Chairs are the ones who benefited the most from flooding the market. Since they can easily hire new Attendings for cheap and thereby increasing the net profit of their centers. This will give them greater financial bonuses. Also they don't have to be accommodating to their Attendings since they are easily replaceable.
 
  • Angry
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
XRT_doc said:
What's sad is that the Chairs are the ones who benefited the most from flooding the market. Since they can easily hire new Attendings for cheap and thereby increasing the net profit of their centers. This will give them greater financial bonuses. Also they don't have to be accommodating to their Attendings since they are easily replaceable.
Click to expand...
#0in2020RadOncNRMP

Seriously med students, this guy loves his job, I love my job, but these jobs are few and far between now. Stay away until 2025 or so imo, RadOnc academia wants your labor for 4 years with no exit strategy for you afterwards.

Many of us struggled to get in, had awful/malignant jobs out of training and lucked out to get our current gigs when we were only graduating 120/year
 
medgator said:
#0in2020RadOncNRMP

Seriously med students, this guy loves his job, I love my job, but these jobs are few and far between now. Stay away until 2025 or so imo, RadOnc academia wants your labor for 4 years with no exit strategy for you afterwards.

Many of us struggled to get in, had awful/malignant jobs out of training and lucked out to get our current gigs when we were only graduating 120/year
Click to expand...

What's going to change in 2025? Unfortunately as much as I hate to admit it, no matter how many med-students stay away, there will always be foreign medical graduates who would rather go into any residency position than be kicked out of the country. The key isn't how many med-students stay away but how many residency positions are available.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
XRT_doc said:
What's going to change in 2025? Unfortunately as much as I hate to admit it, no matter how many med-students stay away, there will always be foreign medical graduates who would rather go into any residency position than be kicked out of the country. The key isn't how many med-students stay away but how many residency positions are available.
Click to expand...
Eventually positions will contract if the quality of candidates gets bad enough. Happened in the 90s, and we are in the same cycle again, just worse this time with things like APM etc
 
aspiring rapper said:
huge selling point to attendings at my place is resident coverage. programs are going to hold on tight.
Click to expand...
Even if the residents can't speak English well and have poor interpersonal skills? That's where things are probably heading back to.

I should know, I trained with some of those folks (many of whom trained in the 70s and 80s, some of whom even dual boarded in radiology and rad Onc in the early 70s)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
medgator said:
Even if the residents can't speak English well and have poor interpersonal skills? That's where things are probably heading back to
Click to expand...

Lol yeah I see some of the older folks in the field from the 90s and I'm surprised they made it past medschool. Now they're holding on to coveted jobs while they keep the MDPhDs with the 260 USMLEs out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Everything is proceeding according to plan.... Just keep trusting our leadership and paying your ABR taxes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
tenor.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Likely a confused admin or recruiter who wrote that
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
they say the rad oncs in central PA just cling to the guns, religion, and antipathy to those that aren't like them
 
Texas Oncology are generally good people. Well run, fairly compensated. Nice suburban facility.
 
OTN May get triggered by this but the woodlands location is a known problem place.

There’s a reason they keep showing up on the job site!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
Gotten a couple messages that the Texas Oncology position in the Woodlands is a toxic work environment.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

elementaryschooleconomics
RadOnc Job Market: Back to the Future
Replies
3
Views
1K
evilbooyaa
evilbooyaa
Lilyhopeless
How is Rad-Onc job market?
Replies
26
Views
3K
IonsAreOurFuture
I
D
Job market musings …
Replies
24
Views
2K
dieABRdie
D
fiji128
RJ: Prospective 5-Year Analysis of the United States Radiation Oncology Job Market Using the ASTRO Career Center Website
Replies
3
Views
956
sirspamalot
sirspamalot
Gfunk6
  • Locked
Rad Onc Job Market, Supreme Court, and Hyper-Polarization of America
2 3
Replies
144
Views
7K
evilbooyaa
evilbooyaa
Top