I was talking to my attending in path and he said the biggest prob in path is jobs. He says that pathologists don't typically retire young, so job openings are few and far between, especially for a new grad. Another pathologist told me he had to do 2 fellowships(surg path and heme path) in order to be marketable for a job, and then was still only able to get a part time position. What do you guys think about this. It's kinda got me worried, being a 4th year.
job market really so bleek?
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My impression from previous posts and threads regarding this issue in addition to talking to attendings is that the "lack" of job opportunities in pathology is being blown out of proportion. I won't go far as to say that there are an abundance of jobs out there like other fields but it isn't that bad. Now it does depend on the context in which you want to practice...whether you plan to go into academics (there are more opportunities here than what one might believe) or the private community sector. What I do hear though is that many people are doing AP/CP tracks to make themselves more "marketable." Judging from this, maybe the job field doesn't look so great as some optimistic pathologists would believe.
Also, different fields change in many ways over a several year period. I hope pathology at least goes in the right direction, in terms of the job market, in the next several years or we're kinda F'd in the A.
Also, different fields change in many ways over a several year period. I hope pathology at least goes in the right direction, in terms of the job market, in the next several years or we're kinda F'd in the A.
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Put it all into context. You should take every individual opinion with a large grain of salt. Some people get bitter when they are looking for jobs. It's hard to tell why it is that some people have trouble finding jobs while others have no trouble.
However, I have talked to lots of people in path in the last year. 95% of them say the job market is good and good candidates will have no trouble finding jobs. I have heard a couple say that if you want to get a good academic job it can be tough - your qualifications need to be good.
A lot of it is based on regions of the country. It is a LOT easier (I believe, currently) to find jobs in certain parts of the country (read: the South) than it is in other parts. Perhaps it is easier for a graduate of a top program to get a choice job, but graduates of top programs are often have more competitive resumes and a richer background of experience.
Who was the person you were talking to? Take this into account. Were they someone without a lot of training? A foreign graduate? Looking for too much in the way of salary/benefits? Bad USMLE scores? (kidding). Bad breath?
I have been through a few different path departments in the past year, whether on interviews, rotations, etc. Every graduating resident at all the programs I have been to has found a job except for one, who was a foreign graduate who recently had a baby and HAD to stay within a certain area around a certain city. And I am not totally sure this person was looking that hard for a job.
Your attending is right about pathologists not retiring young, or at all. Some have to be pried away from their microscope or don't retire until they die. But they have been saying that for years. Every year, lots of pathologists retire. The ones who don't get closer to retirement. Don't lose sleep over it.
The truth is that if you look at any field of medicine you will find naysayers and prophets of doom. But yet, I don't know of many fields that have gone crashing down into oblivion and been forced to create shelters for all of their unemployed residency graduates. Anesthesiologists had a tough time 5-10 years ago because of a saturated job market, but it opened up soon after.
You should take it as a good sign. It means that pathologists are happy in their jobs.
p.s. look back through some older threads in the path forum, this has been discussed before, just reset the options to threads from before the last month.
p.p.s. It's spelled bleak. Just because I'm a tightwad and a stickler for correct spelling. It's one of my unfortunate personal qualities!
However, I have talked to lots of people in path in the last year. 95% of them say the job market is good and good candidates will have no trouble finding jobs. I have heard a couple say that if you want to get a good academic job it can be tough - your qualifications need to be good.
A lot of it is based on regions of the country. It is a LOT easier (I believe, currently) to find jobs in certain parts of the country (read: the South) than it is in other parts. Perhaps it is easier for a graduate of a top program to get a choice job, but graduates of top programs are often have more competitive resumes and a richer background of experience.
Who was the person you were talking to? Take this into account. Were they someone without a lot of training? A foreign graduate? Looking for too much in the way of salary/benefits? Bad USMLE scores? (kidding). Bad breath?
I have been through a few different path departments in the past year, whether on interviews, rotations, etc. Every graduating resident at all the programs I have been to has found a job except for one, who was a foreign graduate who recently had a baby and HAD to stay within a certain area around a certain city. And I am not totally sure this person was looking that hard for a job.
Your attending is right about pathologists not retiring young, or at all. Some have to be pried away from their microscope or don't retire until they die. But they have been saying that for years. Every year, lots of pathologists retire. The ones who don't get closer to retirement. Don't lose sleep over it.
The truth is that if you look at any field of medicine you will find naysayers and prophets of doom. But yet, I don't know of many fields that have gone crashing down into oblivion and been forced to create shelters for all of their unemployed residency graduates. Anesthesiologists had a tough time 5-10 years ago because of a saturated job market, but it opened up soon after.
You should take it as a good sign. It means that pathologists are happy in their jobs.
p.s. look back through some older threads in the path forum, this has been discussed before, just reset the options to threads from before the last month.
p.p.s. It's spelled bleak. Just because I'm a tightwad and a stickler for correct spelling. It's one of my unfortunate personal qualities!
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I think that the best source for job and salary information are recent graduates and headhunters. Attendings don't necessarily know the current job market, and published salary surveys are almost useless. Also, a poster named "Great Pumpkin" used to send out the job classifides from one of the pathology organizations (you had to be a member to see the jobs).
Maybe you could research some of these sources to get a better idea of the salaries and opportunities being offered now. If anyone has access to this type of info, please share.
Maybe you could research some of these sources to get a better idea of the salaries and opportunities being offered now. If anyone has access to this type of info, please share.
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Molly Maquire said:
Here's a website with jobs.
http://pathologyoutlines.com/Jobs/jobs.html
It costs money to list on there, but it isn't really an official website or anything so I would imagine there are a LOT more out there than simply this list. There is also a link to a couple of comments by people recently looking for jobs.
Like I said though, I wouldn't worry your pretty little heads too much about this. There will always be jobs for good people.
I'm in a quoting mood:
Do not worry if you have built your castles in the air. They are where they should be. Now put the foundations under them. - Thoreau
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From glancing at the website, it's too bad that the work schedule and salaries are not posted. My friend, who's an anesthesiology resident, showed me an anesthesiology website which had some really sick jobs. Imagine working in the middle of Wyoming working 3 days a week, 2 months of vacation, for over $300K. I still wouldn't wanna be an anesthesiologist cuz that sh1t would put me to sleep but he tells me he looks at this website often when him and his fellow residents get bitter at work.
Here's a quote too:
"Copyright 2001"
-Bartlett's Quotations
🙂 🙂
Here's a quote too:
"Copyright 2001"
-Bartlett's Quotations
🙂 🙂
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There are two listings on there that include salary. Just use your "find on page" option (Ctrl-F or usually located in edit menu). And search for $.
One is for a forensics job though, so don't get discouraged. Read the second one.
One is for a forensics job though, so don't get discouraged. Read the second one.
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Why would people make up lies about their job difficulties? That doesnt make any sense to me. If a pathologist told you he had trouble finding a job or had to get extra training to find one, then you'd better believe it. Maybe the guy was trying to stay in New York City or something and not opening up his search options, but thats still no excuse to discount his info as worthless.
this is very troubling indeed. Hopefully its just anecdotal. Doesnt the pathologist society keep track of job statistics? How many applicants applying for how many positions? They are totally stupid if they dont keep stats on this.
this is very troubling indeed. Hopefully its just anecdotal. Doesnt the pathologist society keep track of job statistics? How many applicants applying for how many positions? They are totally stupid if they dont keep stats on this.
B
b&ierstiefel
yup found it yaah, i guess i didn't look through the site long enough to think about that.
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MacGyver said:
Hold on there. I never said the person was lying. What I did say was that you don't have to take everyone's individual opinion as a full fledged fact that will apply to everyone out there. I bet one could find an anesthesiologist out there who is disappointed at the job market for some reason.
I don't find it very troubling, because it is an individual experience. I'm sure they do keep track of job statistics and employment. However, if the amount of jobs was truly decreasing, I for one would expect the # of residency positions around the country to decrease. In fact, no, they have increased. That suggests to me that a future need for pathologists is anticipated.
Everything is cyclical. For you, you may read about one person's experience and take this to mean that the future of pathology is to go into the toilet. Well, I heard of a graduate last year who was recruited for a private practice position in Maine for >250k with what sounded like great benefits to me. So, I don't know how you weigh these two situtations. If one is a pessimist, one says that the one who easily got the job is the outlier. If you're an optimist, you say the one having trouble is the outlier. Having met vastly more people who seem to suggest a robust job market, I lie somewhere in that direction. But as with anything, the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle.
Consider something like the nursing market. All I ever hear of is how every hospital has a shortage of nurses. Can't fill their jobs. Can't fully staff a floor. Etc etc etc. But there are lots of nurses who are scared they won't find a good job after they finish school. So some of them get an NP degree.
However, I understand that there are many individual opinions and reasons for things. I don't fully understand the situtation of the individuals struggling to find jobs, so I can't fully comment. Maybe they have poor prior references. Maybe they want to move to a place where there are fewer jobs. Maybe they are making demands (like they don't want to teach) that make it hard for them to find a job.
I for one have heard many people make excuses, throughout life, for bad things that happen to them. There are few people who wish to take a lot of responsibility for when bad things happen. It's easier to blame something or someone else, like a bad job market, bias, or what have you.
I think it is a bit harder to quantify job market/applicant numbers when it comes to post-residency positions. I think this is because it is so fluid, and departments will hire people for specific reasons, and in fact create new positions for certain individuals. But I am sure there are some kind of statistics out there. When I get closer to being finished with residency and am seeking a position, I would bet I would be better able to answer that.
p.s. thanks logos! You snuck in there while I was typing. That should satisfy some of the number freaks. It's like evidence based medicine. Numbers can tell you something, but beware of the hidden factors!
