Job market

[shark2000]

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Tell me this since you bring it up-what does it say about the job market that *some* people are needing to do 2 fellowships? In the past, no fellowship was needed, then 1 was necessary, and now 2 for some. Dont you think that if the market was healthy, that wouldn't be necessary?
Also from what I've seen, salaries have dropped quite a bit it seems. That's also concerning, don't you think? From 300/350 to low 200's at a number of places. What does that say about the market?

1- Believe it or not, the idea of not doing fellowship is a relatively new concept for radiology which occurred in years 2000-2005. In 80s and 90s many people did fellowship.
and for 100 times I am saying that 2nd fellowship is not a common trend that you are talking about.

2- Not doing fellowship per se, is not healthy at all. I call the era of not doing fellowship unhealthy. If you understand radiology as a field and how vast and diverse it is, you will agree that most people need to do one fellowship.

3- drop in salaries does not say anything about the market. By itself, it means nothing. Currently the highest demand field is Hospitalist, How come its salary is not higher than Neurosurgery which is relatively low in demand?

And the more I talk to you on this forum, the more I come to the conclusion that you are in this field for the wrong reasons. Step out as soon as you can, otherwise you will be miserable sooner or later.

 

[shark2000]

One important thing that you guys are missing:

Most radiology jobs are by word of mouth, internal moonlighting, internal connections, ...
I do not know whether this is the case for other fields or not. At least I am sure it is not a case for hospitalists and most hospitalist jobs are through advertisement.
So, coming into the conclusion that radiology job market is worse than specialty A, just by looking at internet adds may be right or wrong depending on how the job placement works for specialty A.

I don't say job market is good, but almost half of the jobs that me and my co-fellows landed in the last year (or even more of them) never ever showed yp on ACR job listing or any other internet listings.

I understand your concerns. It may become better or worse in the future. But trust me, at least now it is not as bad as people write on auntminnie or talk.

 

[Experienced Rad]

Sorry but you're wrong. See the article from Diagnostic Imaging: http://web.mit.edu/outsourcing/class1/DI-radiology-1.htm

I know from personal experience, a foreign radiologist read my films after I had a study performed at a local hospital.

 

[Experienced Rad]

This is true, you know what you're talking about.

 

[cowme]

Sorry but you're wrong. See the article from Diagnostic Imaging: http://web.mit.edu/outsourcing/class1/DI-radiology-1.htm

I know from personal experience, a foreign radiologist read my films after I had a study performed at a local hospital.

From your article:

"Because of their lack of credentials, the Wipro physicians cannot legally bill Medicare for radiological services and are barred from licensure in some states. But their company has devised a way to coordinate their work with board-certified practitioners in the U.S., as a means of improving radiologist productivity."

That doesn't sound like making their own reports now, does it?

In regards to your second point, did you have the doctors medical license information? Because if he truly was foreign, you should probably sue. You will make millions!

 

[loljkttyl]

Agreed. I think this post raises many important points.

One important thing that you guys are missing:

Most radiology jobs are by word of mouth, internal moonlighting, internal connections, ...
I do not know whether this is the case for other fields or not. At least I am sure it is not a case for hospitalists and most hospitalist jobs are through advertisement.
So, coming into the conclusion that radiology job market is worse than specialty A, just by looking at internet adds may be right or wrong depending on how the job placement works for specialty A.

I don't say job market is good, but almost half of the jobs that me and my co-fellows landed in the last year (or even more of them) never ever showed yp on ACR job listing or any other internet listings.

I understand your concerns. It may become better or worse in the future. But trust me, at least now it is not as bad as people write on auntminnie or talk.

 

[shark2000]

Sorry but you're wrong. See the article from Diagnostic Imaging: http://web.mit.edu/outsourcing/class1/DI-radiology-1.htm

I know from personal experience, a foreign radiologist read my films after I had a study performed at a local hospital.

So, you are an experienced radiologist with many years of practice.


Then when you needed an imaging study, you went to a random hospital and not where you work and had your films read by a random radiologist.


Dude, l am so sorry for you to not know any radiologist after doing it for many years.


And a radiologist barely uses the word "films".

 

[colbgw02]

And a radiologist barely uses the word "films".

I routinely use the word "films", and I'm not that much further along than you. And it's not like I trained with screen-film or anything.

 

[shark2000]

I routinely use the word "films", and I'm not that much further along than you. And it's not like I trained with screen-film or anything.

OK, at least the radiologists I have met. So probably we don't know each other in the real world. Haha

I myself never use the word film.

 

[SrRadiologyRes]

I'm a senior resident in radiology and the job market has completely collapsed. Any mention of this on auntminnie and administrators immediately threaten you and take down your threads. DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING. All negative threads are no being taken down at aunt minnie. Let me inform you of the job situation:

Unless you want to get pigeon-holed into doing mammo for the res of your life, or used and abused and then dropped as a night hawk, there are no jobs.

People are doing a fellowship, seeing there are no jobs available, and then doing another fellowship without any guarantee of employment. The only other field that does this is pathology.

If you're lucky enough to get a job and say you're trained in MSK, it has no bearing on your day to day work. If they already have an MSK guy you'll read ultrasound all day, every day unless you want to be unemployed.

I can't believe after all this money, hard work and training I don't know how I'm going to pay off my loans. This is a nightmare.

 

[samsoniter]

yep we are all totally bamboozled, there aren't any jobs out there and there never will be, we are all destined to be unemployed and should half the number of rads residency spots.
http://www.radworking.com/jobs/radiology-jobs.html
This logic is flawed, and sure I am not very experienced, but know plenty of people who are. These people assure me things are not that bad, fellows are landing jobs they want and don't have to settle for "mammo in the boonies." Maybe instead of dooming and glooming about it we should be lobbying CMS and trying to ensure the ACR has our best interest in mind....may as well be productive and positive instead of a bunch of whiny sissies.

 

[Silent Cool]

yep we are all totally bamboozled, there aren't any jobs out there and there never will be, we are all destined to be unemployed and should half the number of rads residency spots.
http://www.radworking.com/jobs/radiology-jobs.html
This logic is flawed, and sure I am not very experienced, but know plenty of people who are. These people assure me things are not that bad, fellows are landing jobs they want and don't have to settle for "mammo in the boonies." Maybe instead of dooming and glooming about it we should be lobbying CMS and trying to ensure the ACR has our best interest in mind....may as well be productive and positive instead of a bunch of whiny sissies.

I made a post on AuntMinnie a while back re: Radworking. These were the responses:


http://www.auntminnie.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=347155&high=radworking


😎

 

[DrBotox]

Northside Radiology in Atlanta are hiring, but be prepared to do ONLY scut work- BE's, Hystro's, Mammos- even if you are a Neuro, or IR, MSK fellowship trained radiologist. Pay is very low and NO opportunity for partnership. They prefer Gay partners- so be prepared to be at least Metro-sexual to fit in....

 

[IJL]

Northside Radiology in Atlanta are hiring, but be prepared to do ONLY scut work- BE's, Hystro's, Mammos- even if you are a Neuro, or IR, MSK fellowship trained radiologist. Pay is very low and NO opportunity for partnership. They prefer Gay partners- so be prepared to be at least Metro-sexual to fit in....

You serious Clark?

 

[hoagiedogy]

You serious Clark?

*Like*

 

[ar2388]

hahahaha...
and there are totally jobs! just from that radworking.com site alone

 

[PeterNorth55]

How is the job outlook in more rural locations. I would like to move with my wife and kids to northern MI after residency. I'm not overly concerned with salary, although it would be nice to pull in some of those 400k-500k yearly salaries.

 

[cowme]

not only will the job market always be booming in rural areas, but you will also make more money there, as insurance rates pay more for patients in rural areas than they do in oversaturated markets (cities). No offense, but very few people are willing to live in a place like northern michigan, and hospitals struggle to attract doctors there, so they overpay in order to make it work. I met a rads resident from a crap program who signed a 800k starting salary in rural iowa just 2 years ago.

It's kind of funny that way. I don't know what the hell you are going to do with that kind of money in Iowa, yet the places where you really need to make that kind of money (new york, SF bay), you make just enough to be upper-middle class

 

[scootad.]

It's true that salaries are much higher in the fly-over states but another thing to consider is that the job is often more stressful. What I mean is that general radiologists are often expected to do some IR both on the job and on call because you may be the only radiologist on call that weekend in almost the entire state (no joke!) . Because they have trouble attracting radiologists in the first place, things are not as subspecialized. And call may be more frequent too. It's not just about salary.

 

[Bane]

not only will the job market always be booming in rural areas, but you will also make more money there, as insurance rates pay more for patients in rural areas than they do in oversaturated markets (cities). No offense, but very few people are willing to live in a place like northern michigan, and hospitals struggle to attract doctors there, so they overpay in order to make it work. I met a rads resident from a crap program who signed a 800k starting salary in rural iowa just 2 years ago.

It's kind of funny that way. I don't know what the hell you are going to do with that kind of money in Iowa, yet the places where you really need to make that kind of money (new york, SF bay), you make just enough to be upper-middle class

Well, 800k may be just enough to enjoy rural Iowa.

 

[Asp]

Yeah, on 800k in rural Iowa I'd import some hot women and spend every other weekend in Paris. First class both ways.

Still not enough to get a black Amex though. First-world problems huh.