Job outlook???

[investing101]

I was going through a number of posts and saw that in one case there were 300 applicants for one position in anesthesiology. I really want to go all in with anesthesiology but statistically is doesn't seem like a bright idea? Am I right or is the future bright?

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[PMPMD]

I was going through a number of posts and saw that in one case there were 300 applicants for one position in anesthesiology. I really want to go all in with anesthesiology but statistically is doesn't seem like a bright idea? Am I right or is the future bright?

If I can get in, anyone can. Not sure where that number comes from, but it's not THAT competitive.

 

[PMPMD]

This might shed some light on the competitiveness: http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

 

[investing101]

Are you guys referring to residency, I am referring to job outlook.

 

[IlDestriero]

I've never heard of that level of competition. It may be very competitive for well known very high paying private groups in super premium locations, but 300/spot? That means ~1/4 of the residents in the country applied (-experienced guys looking to move). Seems pretty unlikely. I'm in a pretty good paying academic job in a desirable city and we usually get 2-4 applicants per spot. All our fellows get multiple offers. It's tight in the desirable cities, but not that tight.
There are PP attendings on this forum, they can probably provide some more data for you.

 

[lane]

i just signed on to a great position in my desired location after turning down multiple offers in other competitive locations. the pay is very good for being in a big city coming out of residency.

many good jobs are out there - you just have to be aggressive, be a good physician, and make yourself marketable.

 

[Consigliere]

I can sum up the job outlook in one word: DISMAL.

 

[foxtrot]

I was going through a number of posts and saw that in one case there were 300 applicants for one position in anesthesiology. I really want to go all in with anesthesiology but statistically is doesn't seem like a bright idea? Am I right or is the future bright?

What city did you see this in? That seems like LA or NY city. The job market is weak but I haven't see that type of weakness.

 

[aneftp]

My brother said just for one opening in his Los angeles group they had over 100 CVs to look over. This is excluding recruiting firms who they just ignored. So 300 applicants may sound right if u add recruiting firms who have their pool also.

Private practice $400-500k. you work hard for that money (60 hours)

They interviewed 13 applicants for one position.

Groups can be more selective in desirable areas.
I would be out there in a heartbeat but the wifey doesn't want to move from the east coast.

They ended up hiring some guy from a well known program on the east coast. But that was only after a referral from a department chair.

So it's a tough market in certain areas.

 

[fzwarrior]

Whats the reason for the poor job market? Is it oversupply of graduating residents or an increase in midlevel providers?

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I was going through a number of posts and saw that in one case there were 300 applicants for one position in anesthesiology. I really want to go all in with anesthesiology but statistically is doesn't seem like a bright idea? Am I right or is the future bright?

Your bio says that you are a premed. If this is the case, you are worrying about this way too soon. Concentrate on getting into and through medical school.

 

[Quirk11]

Arch:

That is terrible advice with due respect. Medical school costs so much that this should be in the forefront of everyone's mind before starting..

Is a 300K worth it for medical school with deferred interest payments building THROUGHOUT residency going forward (so that it builds to 500K when you are 32 or 33)? Many on these boards have said no...no one knows for sure..

I have hypothesized that dentists will do better in the long term than most physicians based on their business model (ie less medicare, medicaid etc), although that career is not perfect either...There are some in medicine who can do this sort of thing (dermatologists, high end psychiatrists etc)..my mentor was one but it is probably harder than selling invisalign to people. The sad fact is that parents will invest more in braces than paying their pediatrician and it makes no "sense" but that is the reality of this country..

Law school seems tough now. MBA is okay, but you need to have the business skills not all of us have.

If I had a daughter or son interested in healthcare I would say go dentistry and at least have a good lifestyle...

I play it safe and there is enough concern from legitimate people like Blade that I am not acquiring any more liabilities..for me that means no family until my debt is paid off. To some that may be "extreme" but I am ultra conservative and trying to be as flexible as possible...

Your bio says that you are a premed. If this is the case, you are worrying about this way too soon. Concentrate on getting into and through medical school.

 

[imfrankie]

Arch:

That is terrible advice with due respect. Medical school costs so much that this should be in the forefront of everyone's mind before starting..

Is a 300K worth it for medical school with deferred interest payments building THROUGHOUT residency going forward (so that it builds to 500K when you are 32 or 33)? Many on these boards have said no...no one knows for sure..

I have hypothesized that dentists will do better in the long term than most physicians based on their business model (ie less medicare, medicaid etc), although that career is not perfect either...There are some in medicine who can do this sort of thing (dermatologists, high end psychiatrists etc)..my mentor was one but it is probably harder than selling invisalign to people. The sad fact is that parents will invest more in braces than paying their pediatrician and it makes no "sense" but that is the reality of this country..

Law school seems tough now. MBA is okay, but you need to have the business skills not all of us have.

If I had a daughter or son interested in healthcare I would say go dentistry and at least have a good lifestyle...

I play it safe and there is enough concern from legitimate people like Blade that I am not acquiring any more liabilities..for me that means no family until my debt is paid off. To some that may be "extreme" but I am ultra conservative and trying to be as flexible as possible...

I say do what you enjoy, but keep the debt LOW

 

[pgg]

Whats the reason for the poor job market? Is it oversupply of graduating residents or an increase in midlevel providers?

Fear, uncertainty, doubt.

 

[foxtrot]

Fear, uncertainty, doubt.

Add to this, a lack of the older generation/baby boomers retiring. People are working a lot longer because their retirements have taken hits.

 

[investing101]

My thoughts exactly, Every one should take job outlook seriously if still an undergrad.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Arch:That is terrible advice with due respect. Medical school costs so much that this should be in the forefront of everyone's mind before starting..

With all due respect you are wrong.

Just kidding (mostly.

The future isn't really bright for us now, but compared to the average working stiff we are doing alright. Although it isn't really looking good now, nobody knows what the future holds.

The thread will stay alive as long as there are responses but this forum really isn't meant for pre-med issues.

My advice is to study and work hard and do what you like with your life. Not a lot of folks know what specialty they are going into when they are in the first 2 years of med school, let alone the pre-med years.

Good luck.

 

[cincincyreds]

I think if you make about 350k you are in the top 1%, i.e. the hated one percenters. Can you do that in Anestheisa your first year out. Yes, you will work hard, like 60 hours/ week, but it can be done. I think the median salary in this country is about 50k, so your first year out you can make 7x that of the median salary in this country. Of course, you will be 30 years of age. But basically it is a stable job.

Nothing is set in stone. Things change. I have friends older than me who are partners who work half as much as me and earn twice as much. It is just how the ball falls. I just worry about one day at a time.

Things change. There was a time in the 90s where there were no anesthesia jobs from what I've been told by my elders. Then in the 2000s, I heard of starting bonuses in the six figures. In fact, I got a bonus when I started a few years ago. Now the number of jobs on gaswork is about 1/3 than when I started.

 

[yappy]

Cincincyreds (or anyone else) :

Do you mind telling me your thoughts on going into medicine at a later age to where a student would finish at 33 and then finish residency ~ 37?

I'm not one of those non-trads that has an amazing career I would be leaving. I was a combat medic in the AF for 5 years after I graduated high school. I then worked a crappy min wage job and a few years ago decided to cash in my military education grants and will be graduating college soon. Medical education would set me back about 100K in debt by the time I finished. Do you think going to medical is financial suicide at my age? I really think I would enjoy the career and have developed myself as a student the past few years [good academic record].

Thanks, and sorry if this is off topic. I know this is kinda premed but It's rare to have the opportunity to talk like this with attendings - people that know what the industry is really like.

I think if you make about 350k you are in the top 1%, i.e. the hated one percenters. Can you do that in Anestheisa your first year out. Yes, you will work hard, like 60 hours/ week, but it can be done. I think the median salary in this country is about 50k, so your first year out you can make 7x that of the median salary in this country. Of course, you will be 30 years of age. But basically it is a stable job.

Nothing is set in stone. Things change. I have friends older than me who are partners who work half as much as me and earn twice as much. It is just how the ball falls. I just worry about one day at a time.

Things change. There was a time in the 90s where there were no anesthesia jobs from what I've been told by my elders. Then in the 2000s, I heard of starting bonuses in the six figures. In fact, I got a bonus when I started a few years ago. Now the number of jobs on gaswork is about 1/3 than when I started.

 

[nycitygas]

However bad the job market is, it's still not terrible in context to the overall economy. Every recent grad I know from my program got PP offers at roughly 300k (albeit zero sign on bonuses and for the most part employee jobs rather than partnership tract).
I would still rather be in footsteps than my old college roomate who just got laid off from his Ibanking gig. At least I can find a job somewhere in the country for comparable pay.

 

[ssmallz]

Life is all about perspective. It's very easy to look at our situation compared to a years ago and say that our outlook is poor but it's still a lot better than the avg person. None of my friends are making what I make and most of them have had an 8 year head start. If i'm smart about my budgeting I can pay off my student loans w/out a problem and still afford some of the nicer things in life. I know that I will always have a job somewhere that pays better than 99% of the nation and that in a poor economy in a tight market, I still don't need to worry about putting food on the table or affording a tank of gas

 

[cincincyreds]

Cincincyreds (or anyone else) :

Do you mind telling me your thoughts on going into medicine at a later age to where a student would finish at 33 and then finish residency ~ 37?

I'm not one of those non-trads that has an amazing career I would be leaving. I was a combat medic in the AF for 5 years after I graduated high school. I then worked a crappy min wage job and a few years ago decided to cash in my military education grants and will be graduating college soon. Medical education would set me back about 100K in debt by the time I finished. Do you think going to medical is financial suicide at my age? I really think I would enjoy the career and have developed myself as a student the past few years [good academic record].

Thanks, and sorry if this is off topic. I know this is kinda premed but It's rare to have the opportunity to talk like this with attendings - people that know what the industry is really like.

Very good questions. More than happy to help you out with advice. If you can go to medical school and only have 100k of debt and you really enjoy it, I say go for it. It is much better than a minimum wage job. I was actually 29 when I became an attending, so it is hard for me to tell you if it is more difficult later in life to go through med school. I was 21 when I started medical school and had no responsibilities, so it was pretty easy to coast through along with residency.

There were plenty of people in my class who were in the 30s and even 40s, and 2 in their 50s. They all managed, so it is doable.

The main thing is to not accumulate too much debt. If you have to go into 500k of debt, I would start thinking of something else to do as interest rates are very high right now and you will become a slave to the debt. If you read the news, it appears there is a war going on about how much medicare wants to pay physicians. Will it be lower in the future. I don't know. It is hard to predict the future. Things change. When I started, there were sign on bonuses, now the don't exist. It is now very difficult to get a partnership position.

It is important to find what makes you happy. If it is medicine, great. If not medicine, great.

If you told me you were a wall street broker bringing in 500k, I would say you are crazy because of the 8 years of opportunity cost you would lose out on med school and residency training.

 

[cincincyreds]

Life is all about perspective. It's very easy to look at our situation compared to a years ago and say that our outlook is poor but it's still a lot better than the avg person. None of my friends are making what I make and most of them have had an 8 year head start. If i'm smart about my budgeting I can pay off my student loans w/out a problem and still afford some of the nicer things in life. I know that I will always have a job somewhere that pays better than 99% of the nation and that in a poor economy in a tight market, I still don't need to worry about putting food on the table or affording a tank of gas

100% agree.

 

[countingdays]

Life is all about perspective. It's very easy to look at our situation compared to a years ago and say that our outlook is poor but it's still a lot better than the avg person. None of my friends are making what I make and most of them have had an 8 year head start. If i'm smart about my budgeting I can pay off my student loans w/out a problem and still afford some of the nicer things in life. I know that I will always have a job somewhere that pays better than 99% of the nation and that in a poor economy in a tight market, I still don't need to worry about putting food on the table or affording a tank of gas

My goal in life has always been to make just enough to live an average lifestyle and pay off my student loans. Student loan repayment is deeply satisfying. Luckily I'll be doing it for the next 29 years. Yay.thanks for the job outlook and marginal income Obama.