Job Prospects for Other Health Professions - Reddit

[AlwaysContrary]

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Came across an interesting post on r/pharmacy the other day from u/legrange1. Looks like most healthcare professions are going down hill. Here's a link to the actual post. TIL there are 85 more PA schools and 210 more NP schools than pharmacy schools in the US • r/pharmacy

140 pharmacy schools

225 PA schools

350 NP schools
Lets commiserate with our other non physician comrades. the HRSA predicts by 2025 Pharmacists will have a projected oversupply of 48.9k, 16% above projected demand. Among similar healthcare professions, NPs have a projected oversupply of 42.5k, 62% above projected demand; PAs 19.7k oversupply, 66% above projected demand; CRNAs 10k oversupply, 19% above projected demand.

stop tellin those considerin pharmacy school to do PA school or NP school instead. Nothin right now suggests they are in for a better job market in the future. Hell our future doesnt look the best, but damn, these other alternative healthcare professions look no better. I hate a new or expandin pharmacy school as the next one of ya, but this is ridiculous for NPs and PAs.

tl;dr We arent as ****ed as the rest of em.

 

[mentos]

You have to look at class size, not just number of schools. Are there any PA/NP schools with 300+ students?

 

[AlwaysContrary]

You have to look at class size, not just number of schools. Are there any PA/NP schools with 300+ students?

In all reality though, how many pharmacy schools actually accept 300+ students? I'm also almost positive NP school accept a ton of applicants but I'm not sure. even if that was the case, assuming every pharmacy school accepts 300 students for every class and the PA and NP schools accept only 100 there will still be a ton more NP/PA being graduated than pharmacists (keep in mind PA/NP school is shorter as well).

 

[Seriously Serious]

Shhhhh. The last thing we need is a higher pharmacy school retention rate to sink the ship faster 😛

 

[John Detter]

Too bad those professions can make money with their services whereas pharmacists have to prove that our services save money. We have the added disadvantage that we have to constantly justify our jobs to a C-suite that is absolutely clueless about what we do.

 

[Apples2Oranges]

The reason why they don't seem as saturated as pharmacy is because their field of work is significantly larger. Hell, even PA sounds better than MD/DO nowadays. You can switch from family practice to derm without any type of residency! This may change soon, but get a slice of the residency-free pie while you can. The pre-2009 pharmacy students got lucky with time for the most part in their hospital jobs.

 

[owlegrad]

The reason why they don't seem as saturated as pharmacy is because their field of work is significantly larger. Hell, even PA sounds better than MD/DO nowadays. You can switch from family practice to derm without any type of residency! This may change soon, but get a slice of the residency-free pie while you can. The pre-2009 pharmacy students got lucky with time for the most part in their hospital jobs.

Huh? No way. How many thousands and thousands and thousands of pharmacies are there compared to the number of PA clinics?

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[PharmtoCS]

This is exactly why I don't even bother with recommending other health professions and instead tell people to pursue computer programming, engineering, accounting, finance, etc. Most of the health professions are completely saturated and/or require a considerable amount of debt and schooling.

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[npage148]

Everything sucks and we are all going to die naked and homeless

 

[gwarm01]

You have to consider the demand for the profession. The patient to professional ratio is much higher

Huh? No way. How many thousands and thousands and thousands of pharmacies are there compared to the number of PA clinics?

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I had the opposite line of thinking. One pharmacy could service thousands of patients, while a clinic may only have a fraction of that number. There could be more room for them to expand before they hit saturation.

Of course, I'm not actually informed on the issue and could be entirely off base.

 

[LoveWillSaveTheDay]

And you have to take into account how much pull the MD/DO community has. I could be wrong about how much influence they have, but I don't see them allowing more independence for NP/PAs....

 

[BidingMyTime]

There are NO sure-fire careers with high pay and high job availablity. Not like Pharmacists in the 2000-2005ish years. People want to try to find a career like those years, and they just don't exist. That pharmacist era was an anomaly that couldn't keep existing, and any other job that ever gets like that, won't exist in that state for long either.

Instead of looking for "easy money", people need to 1) look at their aptitudes then 2) look at their interests, then 3) find a reasonable career path (college debt to salary-wise) that combines their interests and aptitudes.

 

[AHossain]

Yes taking on about 40k a year for pharmacy school for 4 years...with low job prospects yes yes keep telling us how this is good


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[F1rstGen]

And you have to take into account how much pull the MD/DO community has. I could be wrong about how much influence they have, but I don't see them allowing more independence for NP/PAs....

The nursing lobby alone is larger and more influential than all other healthcare advocacy groups combined minus the pharmaceutical industry.

Midlevel surplus + care shortage + focus on reducing costs (even at the expense of quality) = Massive expansion of midlevel practice rights currently & in the future. Many states already allow fully independent NP practice.

At least in pharmacy you aren't working with technicians that are itching to replace you.

 

[pharmasaurusRex17]

What I don't understand is where all the complaints are coming from... my class (admitted yes, we admit the most and graduate the most pharmacy students in the country)... however, we have a 100% job success rate full-time. The only thing is, some jobs may not be in desirable areas, but it is a job. Right?

NP and PAs ... especially PAs do have a high rate of finding jobs in nice areas, partially because not a lot of people know what a PA is especially coming from an immigrant family.

 

[LoveWillSaveTheDay]

What I don't understand is where all the complaints are coming from... my class (admitted yes, we admit the most and graduate the most pharmacy students in the country)... however, we have a 100% job success rate full-time. The only thing is, some jobs may not be in desirable areas, but it is a job. Right?

NP and PAs ... especially PAs do have a high rate of finding jobs in nice areas, partially because not a lot of people know what a PA is especially coming from an immigrant family.

I think a majority of the population here live on the Far, far East coast, far, far west coast or other heavily populated cities where jobs are scarce.

 

[beautifulrobot]

Another thing to keep in mind is that there is some job market overlap among the three professions, and an excess of NPs and PAs will take away leverage from RPhs trying to obtain provider status (arguments about how beneficial provider status for pharmacists actually is aside). All three professions are already fighting over filling the "primary care" shortage, especially in rural areas. It's hard to see how RPhs will be able to compete with an excess of NPs and PAs, given that RPhs need additional training (beyond what we typically get in school/while interning) in performing physical exams, while NPs and PAs already have that training under their belt. That's all to say, the "promise" of provider status and "advanced pharmacist practice" opportunities, are further diminished by a job market saturated with NPs and PAs.

 

[Sparda29]

This is exactly why I don't even bother with recommending other health professions and instead tell people to pursue computer programming, engineering, accounting, finance, etc. Most of the health professions are completely saturated and/or require a considerable amount of debt and schooling.

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I used to tell people to become commercial airline pilots but apparently that's another high debt for education profession and it has even more scrutiny than pharmacy. (I was considering it before pharmacy then I found out how little independence pilots have (so many ****ing policies and procedures, every part of the trip is pre-planned, most of the trip is on autopilot).

 

[AlwaysContrary]

Another thing to keep in mind is that there is some job market overlap among the three professions, and an excess of NPs and PAs will take away leverage from RPhs trying to obtain provider status (arguments about how beneficial provider status for pharmacists actually is aside). All three professions are already fighting over filling the "primary care" shortage, especially in rural areas. It's hard to see how RPhs will be able to compete with an excess of NPs and PAs, given that RPhs need additional training (beyond what we typically get in school/while interning) in performing physical exams, while NPs and PAs already have that training under their belt. That's all to say, the "promise" of provider status and "advanced pharmacist practice" opportunities, are further diminished by a job market saturated with NPs and PAs.

Why are on Earth does everyone on here assume that provider status means we will be able diagnose and prescribe??? Provider status just means we can bill for stuff we already do for free.

 

[pharmasaurusRex17]

Why are on Earth does everyone on here assume that provider status means we will be able diagnose and prescribe??? Provider status just means we can bill for stuff we already do for free.

Agreed. Diagnostics ... I doubt that will ever fall into our plate LOL because that's the job of the physician. But prescribing, certain pharmacists do have the ability to prescribe. But basically, Contrary is right. It's just billing for our services.

 

[gwarm01]

Why are on Earth does everyone on here assume that provider status means we will be able diagnose and prescribe??? Provider status just means we can bill for stuff we already do for free.

This is just the result of ever moving goalposts. Provider status has been spoken of as a path to mid-level practice for years, a national acceptance of the clinical pharmacist practitioner laws that some states have passed. In traditional pharmacy fashion, the profession has shot itself in the foot and is trying to save face.

(WARNING: Incoming cynical take on pharmacy)

Dream: Mandatory PharmD will lead to growth in new and emerging clinical pharmacy jobs
Reality: More tuition to the schools and longer training for the same jobs

Dream: Residency training will lead to growth in new and emerging clinical pharmacy jobs
Reality: Overemphasis of residency has shifted the burden of training from the employer to the employee. You are now expected to do a minimum of a PGY1, working longer hours for reduced pay while you student loans accumulate interest, just to get the same job you could have gotten with a PharmD or BSPharm. What should have been a fast-track to a specialized job is often the slow-track to staffing in many markets.

Dream: Provider status, which is coming any day now (a line heard in pharmacy schools for well over a decade by this point), will legitimize the profession and lead to growth in new and emerging clinical pharmacy jobs.
Reality: Okay, we aren't getting these fantasy jobs. We will never be mid-level practitioners in a world where PAs and NPs can be trained quicker and often work for less than a pharmacist will demand. Can we please just be paid something for the work we keep volunteering to do for free? Not even everywhere! Just in the medically underserved communities, maybe some swamps or in a volcano. No? Okay, back to it then.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I'll probably move to like Estonia or Maldova and commit computer crimes if pharmacy doesn't work out long term.

 

[MrBonita]

I work with a PA. My fellow pharmacist always say they wish they had his job as it is perceived to be easier, but the grass is always greener on the other side. It seems everyone in this forum think that way too.

 

[npage148]

I'll probably move to like Estonia or Maldova and commit computer crimes if pharmacy doesn't work out long term.

60k from one fake news article per npr. Ill hire a bunch of out of work writers and get a fake news mill going

 

[Seriously Serious]

I used to tell people to become commercial airline pilots but apparently that's another high debt for education profession and it has even more scrutiny than pharmacy. (I was considering it before pharmacy then I found out how little independence pilots have (so many ****ing policies and procedures, every part of the trip is pre-planned, most of the trip is on autopilot).

Funny.. sounds a lot like pharmacy.