Joe Biden promises to "provide health care for all"

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Biden said he’d be unveiling more specifics on his health care plan in the next few weeks. But he said if elected, he would get to universal coverage quickly. He pointed to giving Americans a public option of a government-run health insurance program, similar to Medicare.

Biden said Americans need “a public option, now more than ever.” He noted it was especially important with 20 million Americans out of work.

“They need a president who will go in the White House and fight like hell to get Americans the health care coverage they need,” Biden said.

Biden said health care coverage was personal to him and his wife, Jill. He noted the loss of his son, Beau, who died of cancer at age 46."
 
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Biden said he’d be unveiling more specifics on his health care plan in the next few weeks. But he said if elected, he would get to universal coverage quickly. He pointed to giving Americans a public option of a government-run health insurance program, similar to Medicare.

Biden said Americans need “a public option, now more than ever.” He noted it was especially important with 20 million Americans out of work.

“They need a president who will go in the White House and fight like hell to get Americans the health care coverage they need,” Biden said.

Biden said health care coverage was personal to him and his wife, Jill. He noted the loss of his son, Beau, who died of cancer at age 46."
What a horrible idea
 
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FutureInternist

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Beyond philosophical standpoints, how would this impact the US. Skyhigh taxes? Similar issues with the PPACA in that the deductibles and monthly premiums are absurd!?

Or just get the corporations and millionaires to actually pay their damn taxes.
 
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Gyuji

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With the pandemic, George Floyd protests, economic depression, upcoming housing crisis, Trump's strongman response to the protests, and as well with Republicans' final attempt to eliminate Obamacare before election(political suicide). There's going to be a big blue wave coming this November giving Biden a big win(he won the primary without campaigning and probably again in the general). Though it was reported last December, Biden "doesn't want the Democrats to win big" in November because it brings public pressure to make changes similar to the first two years of Obama.

Look, Biden isn't for the public option nor is the established Democrats. If the Democrats are force to talk, debate, discuss, pressure to pass a public option with a super-majority, they'll kill it again like they did in 2009-2010.session.

Biden's health plan is pretty much bringing back the individual-mandate that got appealed by Trump's executive order.

So, Bidencare is Obamacare, a.k.a. Romneycare, a.k.a. BobDoleCare'96, a.k.a. JimmyCarterCare, a.k.a. Nixoncare. a.k.a. similar proposal that the right-wing corporate think-tank, the Heritage Foundation, offered in the late-1980's.
 
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Gyuji

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Why? I’m not sure of the effects this will have on the US. I’m just not versed enough on the economic and social implications this could cost.
He thinks eliminating all regulations and installing "free-market solutions" solves all the problems within the U.S, healthcare system. Yet, never explain about balancing medical professionals' salary and cost for consumers. Like all libertarians, conservatives, economic liberals, neoliberals' right-wingers' ideas of 19th Century economics in the 21st Century, sounds good in paper, in theory, but we all know it doesn't work out in the end...
 
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FutureInternist

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With the pandemic, George Floyd protests, economic depression, upcoming housing crisis, Trump's strongman response to the protests, and as well with Republicans' final attempt to eliminate Obamacare before election(political suicide). There's going to be a big blue wave coming this November giving Biden a big win(he won the primary without campaigning and probably again in the general). Though it was reported last December, Biden "doesn't want the Democrats to win big" in November because it brings public pressure to make changes similar to the first two years of Obama.

Look, Biden isn't for the public option nor is the established Democrats. If the Democrats are force to talk, debate, discuss, pressure to pass a public option with a super-majority, they'll kill it again like they did in 2009-2010.session.

Biden's health plan is pretty much bringing back the individual-mandate that got appealed by Trump's executive order.

So, Bidencare is Obamacare, a.k.a. Romneycare, a.k.a. BobDoleCare'96, a.k.a. JimmyCarterCare, a.k.a. Nixoncare. a.k.a. similar proposal that the right-wing corporate think-tank, the Heritage Foundation, offered in the late-1980's.

While I hope you are right about Biden being elected, keep in mind all the voter suppression tactics that Trump and the Republicans are engaging in currently.
Trump himself accidentally told the truth when he said that if USA expanded mail voting and made it easier to vote, that “no Republican would ever get elected”.

Hopefully Dems use the same tactics as Trump and declare voting rights and gerrymandering a National Emergency and just take $ from Defence and the millionaires and help fix those and other pressing issues
 
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With the pandemic, George Floyd protests, economic depression, upcoming housing crisis, Trump's strongman response to the protests, and as well with Republicans' final attempt to eliminate Obamacare before election(political suicide). There's going to be a big blue wave coming this November giving Biden a big win(he won the primary without campaigning and probably again in the general). Though it was reported last December, Biden "doesn't want the Democrats to win big" in November because it brings public pressure to make changes similar to the first two years of Obama.

Look, Biden isn't for the public option nor is the established Democrats. If the Democrats are force to talk, debate, discuss, pressure to pass a public option with a super-majority, they'll kill it again like they did in 2009-2010.session.

Biden's health plan is pretty much bringing back the individual-mandate that got appealed by Trump's executive order.

So, Bidencare is Obamacare, a.k.a. Romneycare, a.k.a. BobDoleCare'96, a.k.a. JimmyCarterCare, a.k.a. Nixoncare. a.k.a. similar proposal that the right-wing corporate think-tank, the Heritage Foundation, offered in the late-1980's.

Man i disagree with a lot of this that i don't know where to begin
 
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While I hope you are right about Biden being elected, keep in mind all the voter suppression tactics that Trump and the Republicans are engaging in currently.
Trump himself accidentally told the truth when he said that if USA expanded mail voting and made it easier to vote, that “no Republican would ever get elected”.

Hopefully Dems use the same tactics as Trump and declare voting rights and gerrymandering a National Emergency and just take $ from Defence and the millionaires and help fix those and other pressing issues

Democrats are usually bad at doing any of that, and end up strengthening Trump and Republicans.
 

FutureInternist

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Lol yes. The Democrats have so many scruples. /s

Can we please not pretend like either party has any sense of morality?

Not that all of their actions are based on doing good, but a lot are.
We are stuck in a 2 party system and the choice will always be the lesser of two evils.
The Dems are way less evil than Reps..and the current admin is the epitome of that.
 
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Not that all of their actions are based on doing good, but a lot are.
We are stuck in a 2 party system and the choice will always be the lesser of two evils.
The Dems are way less evil than Reps..and the current admin is the epitome of that.

If you really believe that, then this conversation was over before it started.
 
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I was thinking I wouldn't vote it all but now I'm sure I'll vote for Trump. His son died because of the stagnation in the standard of care that rampant socialism has already brought about. "Universal coverage" will be a government promise of a trip to a complacent doctor who can do nothing to help you.
 
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While I hope you are right about Biden being elected, keep in mind all the voter suppression tactics that Trump and the Republicans are engaging in currently.
Trump himself accidentally told the truth when he said that if USA expanded mail voting and made it easier to vote, that “no Republican would ever get elected”.

Hopefully Dems use the same tactics as Trump and declare voting rights and gerrymandering a National Emergency and just take $ from Defence and the millionaires and help fix those and other pressing issues
Are you ok with the government taking $ from you so they can have more money to waste?
 
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Splenda88

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Not that all of their actions are based on doing good, but a lot are.
We are stuck in a 2 party system and the choice will always be the lesser of two evils.
The Dems are way less evil than Reps..and the current admin is the epitome of that.
I guess it's a tie, but if someone were to put a gun in my head to choose, I probably would choose the dem to be in power. I will be on the sideline for now until they get their act together.
 
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FutureInternist

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I guess it's a tie, but I someone were to put a gun in my head to choose, I probably would choose the dem to be in power. I will be on the sideline for now until they get their act together.

You do you.... but equating them seems unfair to me.

Allowing for discrimination against gays.
Allowing for foreign powers to meddle in elections.
Making voting harder and harder.
Packing courts with judges with minimal to no experience, all with only a 2 hour “debate”.
Cutting food stamp benefits.
Fighting minimum wage increases.
Giving further tax breaks to millionaires.
Allowing corporations to not pay taxes.
Cutting unemployment benefits.
Cutting meals on wheels programs.
Wasting $ on a border wall that has no chance of working.
Holding the covid relief package hostage until they could put in ANOTHER $50 billion worth of tax cuts for those that don’t need it.
Trying to privatise mail so people have an even harder time voting.
Making it harder to have medical and reproductive health coverage.
Not believing in, or doing anything about, climate change.
Letting Russia get away with putting bounties on US soldiers.


And ofcourse......
Letting thousands upon thousands die due to inactions for months (Covid).

So... not the same to me.
 
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You do you.... but equating them seems unfair to me.

Allowing for discrimination against gays.
Allowing for foreign powers to meddle in elections.
Making voting harder and harder.
Packing courts with judges with minimal to no experience, all with only a 2 hour “debate”.
Cutting food stamp benefits.
Fighting minimum wage increases.
Giving further tax breaks to millionaires.
Allowing corporations to not pay taxes.
Cutting unemployment benefits.
Cutting meals on wheels programs.
Wasting $ on a border wall that has no chance of working.
Holding the covid relief package hostage until they could put in ANOTHER $50 billion worth of tax cuts for those that don’t need it.
Trying to privatise mail so people have an even harder time voting.
Making it harder to have medical and reproductive health coverage.
Not believing in, or doing anything about, climate change.
Letting Russia get away with putting bounties on US soldiers.


And ofcourse......
Letting thousands upon thousands die due to inactions for months (Covid).

So... not the same to me.
Dude, getting a govt id is not that hard. I actually like a bunch of the others
 
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FutureInternist

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Dude, getting a govt id is not that hard. I actually like a bunch of the others

Don’t know which ones you are referring to .... but given previous discussions, I guess you like the tax breaks and cutting off “non-essential” services that KEEP PEOPLE ALIVE....

I am not, nor will I ever be, in that camp.
 
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My need doesn’t create an obligation for someone else

Couldn’t agree more, but depends on what the “obligation” is.

Just because I have O- GOLD coursing through my veins, doesn’t obligate me to cough it up for anyone for any reason, unless I am OK with it.

Now for the 180.....there are lots of things that EVERYONE takes advantage of, that not everyone has paid for.

The roads you travel on, the school your kids go to, the library, parks, stadiums, etc you visit ... have been paid for (for the most part), by others.

Your taxes may have bought X amount of tar for the road, yet you use all of it.
That is what is done in a society.

As a doc, you have given up lots of other trades that one needs to survive.
You buy your food at WalMart, and while you do pay for it, the farms are heavily subsidised by the government, so you pay way less (ignoring the fact that that food may not even be there were it not for the subsidies)

You call the plumber, electrician, mechanic etc to your house... and their education is likely a result of subsidised school loans (much like your own medical education).

So it is not unfathomable that someone uses something that they have not fully paid for, or conversely be obligated to pay for something that one may not use.

I just draw the line way way way farther (or behind??) from yours.

Healthcare is an investment that we as a society should make.
Like most governmental investments the ROI is HUGE.
Keeping kids fed helps them do better in school.
Proving adequate sex education keeps them from getting pregnant.
Helping folks when they are laid off helps them get back on their feet...
ALL of these (and much more), lead to reduction in use of long term government services.

One could argue that letting old people starve (like the Republicans are trying their best to do), is a wise investment since what can they contribute to society, but I am not sure if other than Red Riding Hood, “killing grandma” is something that people can get behind.
 
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FutureInternist

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Dude, getting a govt id is not that hard. I actually like a bunch of the others

It wasn’t just an ID issue, but not making it a national holiday, making mail in voting more strict (despite minimal if any proof of fraud) while allowing 65 yoa and older (who tend to go R) to vote by mail, gerrymandering up the wazoo... etc etc etc
 
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Couldn’t agree more, but depends on what the “obligation” is.

Just because I have O- GOLD coursing through my veins, doesn’t obligate me to cough it up for anyone for any reason, unless I am OK with it.

Now for the 180.....there are lots of things that EVERYONE takes advantage of, that not everyone has paid for.

The roads you travel on, the school your kids go to, the library, parks, stadiums, etc you visit ... have been paid for (for the most part), by others.

Your taxes may have bought X amount of tar for the road, yet you use all of it.
That is what is done in a society.

As a doc, you have given up lots of other trades that one needs to survive.
You buy your food at WalMart, and while you do pay for it, the farms are heavily subsidised by the government, so you pay way less (ignoring the fact that that food may not even be there were it not for the subsidies)

You call the plumber, electrician, mechanic etc to your house... and their education is likely a result of subsidised school loans (much like your own medical education).

So it is not unfathomable that someone uses something that they have not fully paid for, or conversely be obligated to pay for something that one may not use.

I just draw the line way way way farther (or behind??) from yours.

Healthcare is an investment that we as a society should make.
Like most governmental investments the ROI is HUGE.
Keeping kids fed helps them do better in school.
Proving adequate sex education keeps them from getting pregnant.
Helping folks when they are laid off helps them get back on their feet...
ALL of these (and much more), lead to reduction in use of long term government services.

One could argue that letting old people starve (like the Republicans are trying their best to do), is a wise investment since what can they contribute to society, but I am not sure if other than Red Riding Hood, “killing grandma” is something that people can get behind.
That’s way too far down “we all own each other” lane for me, sorry
 

FutureInternist

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That’s way too far down “we all own each other” lane for me, sorry

:thumbup:.
Yet you do continue to use all the services that others paid for.
It is only when the service is one that you can afford/get by yourself that the “my $, my choice” kind of rhetoric comes up.

Still lots of reasons to choose from to see how evil Republicans are :)
 
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:thumbup:.
Yet you do continue to use all the services that others paid for.
It is only when the service is one that you can afford/get by yourself that the “my $, my choice” kind of rhetoric comes up.

Still lots of reasons to choose from to see how evil Republicans are :)
Your entire concept of who pays for what is inaccurate because you want it to support your premise. It’s fine
 

FutureInternist

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Your entire concept of who pays for what is inaccurate because you want it to support your premise. It’s fine

Do you disagree that childless couples (or single people)help pay for the schools you send your kids to?
Or that your medical education was paid for by the government paying the interest on some of your loans?

Much like (just an one example), religious Christians who are OK with working on Sabbath, eating pork, having sex before marriage etc, but are against gay people, your issue with this seems to start right where it doesn’t affect you.

Have fun continuing to use services that everyone else paid for, while trying to deny others the same benefit... its NOT fine :).
 
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Do you disagree that childless couples (or single people)help pay for the schools you send your kids to?
Or that your medical education was paid for by the government paying the interest on some of your loans?

Much like (just an one example), religious Christians who are OK with working on Sabbath, eating pork, having sex before marriage etc, but are against gay people, your issue with this seems to start right where it doesn’t affect you.

Have fun continuing to use services that everyone else paid for, while trying to deny others the same benefit... its NOT fine :).
I don’t think childless couples should have to pay into the education system and if I’m correct my med school loans were not subsidized (and if they were, they shouldn’t be). So that’s a strawman. I don’t find your imaginary religious person relevant
 

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I don’t think childless couples should have to pay into the education system and if I’m correct my med school loans were not subsidized (and if they were, they shouldn’t be). So that’s a strawman. I don’t find your imaginary religious person relevant

You’re just proving my point.

Why is it OK for you to use other peoples $ to improve your life, yet others are unable to do so?
(All med school loans up to a certain $ are subsidised).

The religious person was only as an example of yet another way in which people’s thoughts about what should allowed and what shouldn’t is based on whether or not it affects them.

Government shouldn’t subsidise food, yet you buy from WalMart etc.
Government shouldn’t subsidise loans, yet you benefitted from one.
Government shouldn’t subsidise education, yet your kids went to public school.

If you believe in these stances, then why avail yourself of those same services that you are trying to deny to others.

I like how anything you don’t have a good answer for is either “not accepted” or a “strawman”.

It’s like arguing with a flat-earther... no amount of evidence against your claims is enough, yet the smallest sliver of something resembling evidence for your own claim is sufficient. :unsure: (much like a religious person... or a cult - not that they are much different)
 
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Not all med school loans are subsidized. None of mine were.

That aside, you often have no choice in the matter in using subsidized things. I can't drive on unsubsidized roads, they don't exist. You can't always buy food that didn't receive subsidies, vast majority of farms do.

Beyond that, it wouldn't surprise me if SB has paid enough into some of these things to pay for his share.

For example, prior to having children my school share of my state taxes is enough to pay for my kids' public schooling for 4 years each. That doesn't include taxes paid since they've been born nor what I will pay in the future. Assuming no change in per student spending or my tax rate, by the time they graduate high school I will have paid around 4k less than the total cost of their education K5-12. I would actually expect that to be much less as property values are increasing much faster than spending on education.
 

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Not all med school loans are subsidized. None of mine were.

That aside, you often have no choice in the matter in using subsidized things. I can't drive on unsubsidized roads, they don't exist. You can't always buy food that didn't receive subsidies, vast majority of farms do.

Beyond that, it wouldn't surprise me if SB has paid enough into some of these things to pay for his share.

For example, prior to having children my school share of my state taxes is enough to pay for my kids' public schooling for 4 years each. That doesn't include taxes paid since they've been born nor what I will pay in the future. Assuming no change in per student spending or my tax rate, by the time they graduate high school I will have paid around 4k less than the total cost of their education K5-12. I would actually expect that to be much less as property values are increasing much faster than spending on education.
First, sb admits that he does not known whether his medschool loan was subsidized or not. Meaning he did care that much about that as long as he (himself) will be the winner.

Second, what do you mean we have no choice? We do! We all can go into the Amazon and have no contact whatsoever with the outside world just like some of these indigenous people. If you want your life to be absolute, you are free to cut yourself off from the outside world.
 
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First, sb admits that he does not known whether his medschool loan was subsidized or not. Meaning he did care that much about that as long as he (himself) will be the winner.

Second, what do you mean we have no choice? We do! We all can go into the Amazon and have no contact whatsoever with the outside world just like some of these indigenous people. If you want your life to be absolute, you are free to cut yourself off from the outside world.
First, wrong. He said if he remembers correctly they weren't. I wasn't 100% sure about mine either so I went and looked. It's OK to not be sure about every thing.

Second, very well I will clarify. "In America we often have no choice".
 

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First, wrong. He said if he remembers correctly they weren't. I wasn't 100% sure about mine either so I went and looked. It's OK to not be sure about every thing.

Second, very well I will clarify. "In America we often have no choice".
Oh, "in America,". I guess his view in not strong enough. As an American, He won't need a green card to immigrate to the Amazon.
 
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Oh, "in America,". I guess his view in not strong enough. As an America, He won't need a green card to immigrate to the Amazon.
So when will you be suggesting that all the BLM protestors go somewhere else? After all, there are less racist countries out there than America.
 
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If they feel so strong about their views, they are welcome to do that.
Fair enough. I appreciate the consistency.

Truthfully that's how I approach @sb247 . We disagree way more often than not but he's very consistent which is a fairly rare quality these days.
 
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First, sb admits that he does not known whether his medschool loan was subsidized or not. Meaning he did care that much about that as long as he (himself) will be the winner.

Second, what do you mean we have no choice? We do! We all can go into the Amazon and have no contact whatsoever with the outside world just like some of these indigenous people. If you want your life to be absolute, you are free to cut yourself off from the outside world.
totally cared, always wanted govt out of student loans. Their existence made this whole process more expensive
 
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deleted480308

You’re just proving my point.

Why is it OK for you to use other peoples $ to improve your life, yet others are unable to do so?
(All med school loans up to a certain $ are subsidised).

The religious person was only as an example of yet another way in which people’s thoughts about what should allowed and what shouldn’t is based on whether or not it affects them.

Government shouldn’t subsidise food, yet you buy from WalMart etc.
Government shouldn’t subsidise loans, yet you benefitted from one.
Government shouldn’t subsidise education, yet your kids went to public school.

If you believe in these stances, then why avail yourself of those same services that you are trying to deny to others.

I like how anything you don’t have a good answer for is either “not accepted” or a “strawman”.

It’s like arguing with a flat-earther... no amount of evidence against your claims is enough, yet the smallest sliver of something resembling evidence for your own claim is sufficient. :unsure: (much like a religious person... or a cult - not that they are much different)
There are only so many ways to say, "I don't want the govt in those things"
 
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