John Muir sells out to Labcorp

[WEBB PINKERTON]

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California consolidation continues. Just no way to compete with the lower prices at labcorp,quest.

"With this sale, our patients will gain access to the broader range of services and lower prices offered by LabCorp,” said Cal Knight, president and CEO of John Muir Health. "Physicians and patients have frequently complained about MuirLab's pricing. This agreement will lower patients' out-of-pocket expenses and advance John Muir Health's efforts to deliver high-quality care at an affordable cost."



http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/04/ca-john-muir-health-idUSnBw046701a+100+BSW20130904

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

540 will lose their jobs its says. Why anyone would want to work in this contracting industry is beyond me.


"Our MuirLab employees have been valuable members of the John Muir Health family, and we will do everything we can to help those not offered a position to find a new job," said Cal Knight, president and CEO of John Muir Health. "Our decisions are not a reflection of their work; rather they are driven by the realities of the lab services market and the broader health care industry."


http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_24027272/john-muir-health-sell-lab-business

 

[stickyshift]

So what happens to the John Muir pathologists? Do they keep their jobs at the hospitals still owned by John Muir, and take a big hit from the loss of outreach cases?

 

[Ruination]

So what happens to the John Muir pathologists? Do they keep their jobs at the hospitals still owned by John Muir, and take a big hit from the loss of outreach cases?

This is strictly a sale of the outreach clinical laboratory portion It is completely separate from and has zero impact on the anatomic pathology services provided by the group that works at the John Muir hospitals.

 

[LADoc00]

This is strictly a sale of the outreach clinical laboratory portion It is completely separate from and has zero impact on the anatomic pathology services provided by the group that works at the John Muir hospitals.

This actually couldnt be more false. I have no clue where you are getting your information from but far more than 50% of that Pathology's group was outpat AP biopsy pull through on the Muir lab work.

From a real business standpoint, they are very much in trouble as that business is now going away...

Even worse, I think the group is rumored to be considering building a new AP outpat lab somewhere. Even if they could find a local community bank crazy enough to capitalize that (assuming they arent insane enough to drop all their liquid cash + 401K money into it!), the business will have long since walked.

 

[stickyshift]

This actually couldnt be more false. I have no clue where you are getting your information from but far more than 50% of that Pathology's group was outpat AP biopsy pull through on the Muir lab work.

From a real business standpoint, they are very much in trouble as that business is now going away...

Even worse, I think the group is rumored to be considering building a new AP outpat lab somewhere. Even if they could find a local community bank crazy enough to capitalize that (assuming they arent insane enough to drop all their liquid cash + 401K money into it!), the business will have long since walked.

I spoke with someone in that group several months ago. He seemed quite despondent, worried about finding another job because of big changes over the horizon. He couldn't say what(non-disclosure cause), but now I guess I know.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Labcorp does a pretty pathetic job with AP so there is business to take. After a lab I worked for sold out to the big boys, accessions dropped big time due to bad service. It can be a time of opportunity. Hopefully some of those pathologists getting laid off will be able to find work at labs that seize it.

 

[pathstudent]

Not sure if this is related to John Muir but I was told a bone-chilling tale about what happened to a pathology group in Concord, Ca (Bay Area) about 3 months ago. There was a group of 4 to 5 pathologists at a hospital and they had merged with another small group at another hospital about 3 years ago. All these pathologists had been in the community for years and were well-respected and involved with their medical staffs, so the merger was seemless.

There was a CEO change at one of the hospitals and the young new CEO gave the hospital path contract to Lab Corp without knowledge of the group that had been there for years. The group had all this dropped on them one morning. The LabCorp suits came in and told the pathologists, they were free to stay and continue to work but that they would be taking a 66% pay cut.

Hearing that story really made me nervous and wonder what the future holds for us. These people that were effectively fired were good hardworking pathologists and respected (so I was told by one of the pathologists from the group that had merged with them). All we have to offer is great service. That is the best that we can do. But there are two things that people care about more than quality, service, loyalty, pretty much anything and that is sex and money.

I suppose the CEO was getting a deal on the clin lab side. That's the only thing I can guess.

 

[LADoc00]

I spoke with someone in that group several months ago. He seemed quite despondent, worried about finding another job because of big changes over the horizon. He couldn't say what(non-disclosure cause), but now I guess I know.

Its actually worse than that...I shouldnt be saying this but my Bothan spies tell me they are all plotting against each other Game of Thrones style because only 4-5 pathologists can remain given the hospital workload...

WINTER IS COMING!

 

[LADoc00]

Not sure if this is related to John Muir but I was told a bone-chilling tale about what happened to a pathology group in Concord, Ca (Bay Area) about 3 months ago. There was a group of 4 to 5 pathologists at a hospital and they had merged with another small group at another hospital about 3 years ago. All these pathologists had been in the community for years and were well-respected and involved with their medical staffs, so the merger was seemless.

There was a CEO change at one of the hospitals and the young new CEO gave the hospital path contract to Lab Corp without knowledge of the group that had been there for years. The group had all this dropped on them one morning. The LabCorp suits came in and told the pathologists, they were free to stay and continue to work but that they would be taking a 66% pay cut.

Hearing that story really made me nervous and wonder what the future holds for us. These people that were effectively fired were good hardworking pathologists and respected (so I was told by one of the pathologists from the group that had merged with them). All we have to offer is great service. That is the best that we can do. But there are two things that people care about more than quality, service, loyalty, pretty much anything and that is sex and money.

I suppose the CEO was getting a deal on the clin lab side. That's the only thing I can guess.

Umm yah Concord aint that big dude, this is the same group.

Many Bothan spies died bringing me news of this last year..

 

[pathstudent]

Umm yah Concord aint that big dude, this is the same group.

Many Bothan spies died bringing me news of this last year..

Do you have any insight on why the CEO did it? You think the med staff would be upset to have their pathologists dumped like that.

Or was this not a capricious decision made by a CEO.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

I like the name of this path group CoCoPath.

http://www.cocopath.net/index.html

Are many of these people out of a job now?

 

[LADoc00]

You guys are asking for inside info for FREE which I had to pay for with lives of 1-2 Bothan spies.

It dont work like that bros.

 

[stickyshift]

I like the name of this path group CoCoPath.

http://www.cocopath.net/index.html

Are many of these people out of a job now?

Without knowing their actual case loads, 10 pathologists is a lot for two hospitals. And they have TWO hematopathologists and TWO dermpaths?

 

[Doormat]

Yeah,

CoCoPath used to be a highly-desirable private practice that hired many top UCSF and Stanford pathology grads. This is a disaster for their group and I expect an exodus.

Another desirable Cali practice, central coast pathology in Pismo Beach, saw the writing on the wall and preemptively sold-out to Australia-based Sonic Healthcare in 2011.

From what I hear, most of the current top pathology grads in Cali want to work at Kaiser.

I found the following quotes in the contra costa times informative:

"Physicians and patients have frequently complained about MuirLab's pricing," Knight said.

Clearly, MuirLab could not compete with LabCorp on price. Although client billing is not allowed in California, I have heard client billing is rampant from my pathologist friends in the LA area. IMO physician kickbacks for lab are insufficient when the pricing is too high.

"This agreement will lower patients' out-of-pocket expenses and advance John Muir Health's efforts to deliver high-quality care at an affordable cost."

Because private and public insurers have a maximum allowable for lab tests, the cost savings realized by discounted pricing for lab test are not passed onto the patients, rather they are pocketed by the ordering physician-entrepreneur. Am I missing something here?

 

[pathstudent]

Yeah,

CoCoPath used to be a highly-desirable private practice that hired many top UCSF and Stanford pathology grads. This is a disaster for their group and I expect an exodus.

Another desirable Cali practice, central coast pathology in Pismo Beach, saw the writing on the wall and preemptively sold-out to Australia-based Sonic Healthcare in 2011.

From what I hear, most of the current top pathology grads in Cali want to work at Kaiser.

I found the following quotes in the contra costa times informative:

"Physicians and patients have frequently complained about MuirLab's pricing," Knight said.

Clearly, MuirLab could not compete with LabCorp on price. Although client billing is not allowed in California, I have heard client billing is rampant from my pathologist friends in the LA area. IMO physician kickbacks for lab are insufficient when the pricing is too high.

"This agreement will lower patients' out-of-pocket expenses and advance John Muir Health's efforts to deliver high-quality care at an affordable cost."

Because private and public insurers have a maximum allowable for lab tests, the cost savings realized by discounted pricing for lab test are not passed onto the patients, rather they are pocketed by the ordering physician-entrepreneur. Am I missing something here?

This is what I find concerning. The CEO and LabCorp don't care about top notch pathologists trained at UCSF and Stanford that provide excellent service.

But the CEOs of these community practice hospitals would fawn over a top notch trained EUS gastroenterologist or ENT-onc surgeon or whatever that would do procedures at the hospital.


People care about quality in pathology unless there is sex or money involved (then they don't care about quality. they will pay lip service to it, but if they did care then those guys wouldn't be looking at a 66% pay cut to stain in Concord.)

What a nightmare.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

It's pretty sad when you come from a good training program, are competent and have ZERO job security.

Those that are considering pathology need to look at what is going on and ask yourself if you want this misery.

The outpatient work this group did will just be absorbed by other labs and there will be a loss of jobs.

 

[deleted314957]

This is what I find concerning. The CEO and LabCorp don't care about top notch pathologists trained at UCSF and Stanford that provide excellent service.

But the CEOs of these community practice hospitals would fawn over a top notch trained EUS gastroenterologist or ENT-onc surgeon or whatever that would do procedures at the hospital.


People care about quality in pathology unless there is sex or money involved (then they don't care about quality. they will pay lip service to it, but if they did care then those guys wouldn't be looking at a 66% pay cut to stain in Concord.)

What a nightmare.

You are 100% correct.

 

[LADoc00]

Now wait a second. This is a jungle. And if the Concord folks had they paid more attention to getting a solid business type Pathologist in their group leading and less about the 10th person with 2 fellowships from UCSF, they MIGHT have had a chance and seen this coming.

Groups that pack their ranks with just hard working indians and no chiefs deserve their fate. Every group needs at least one Shark, a doer, a person of action who can develop thought and strategy beyond they immunos they ordered for tomorrow, the chicken they are cooking for dinner that night and their kid's little league game on Saturday.

 

[2121115]

Now wait a second. This is a jungle. And if the Concord folks had they paid more attention to getting a solid business type Pathologist in their group leading and less about the 10th person with 2 fellowships from UCSF, they MIGHT have had a chance and seen this coming.

Groups that pack their ranks with just hard working indians and no chiefs deserve their fate. Every group needs at least one Shark, a doer, a person of action who can develop thought and strategy beyond they immunos they ordered for tomorrow, the chicken they are cooking for dinner that night and their kid's little league game on Saturday.

Never said better.

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

Now wait a second. This is a jungle. And if the Concord folks had they paid more attention to getting a solid business type Pathologist in their group leading and less about the 10th person with 2 fellowships from UCSF, they MIGHT have had a chance and seen this coming.

Groups that pack their ranks with just hard working indians and no chiefs deserve their fate. Every group needs at least one Shark, a doer, a person of action who can develop thought and strategy beyond they immunos they ordered for tomorrow, the chicken they are cooking for dinner that night and their kid's little league game on Saturday.

So what you're saying is that every pathology group needs a Tyrion Lannister.

I'm going Mance Rayder on this shiznit. Anybody who wants to be free can join me "beyond the wall".

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Go ask the pathologists laid off at Bostwick if having a business-type pathologist makes a difference.

Unprecedented change in health care + pathologist oversupply = we screwed

 

[pathstudent]

Now wait a second. This is a jungle. And if the Concord folks had they paid more attention to getting a solid business type Pathologist in their group leading and less about the 10th person with 2 fellowships from UCSF, they MIGHT have had a chance and seen this coming.

Groups that pack their ranks with just hard working indians and no chiefs deserve their fate. Every group needs at least one Shark, a doer, a person of action who can develop thought and strategy beyond they immunos they ordered for tomorrow, the chicken they are cooking for dinner that night and their kid's little league game on Saturday.

Agreed that Indians need a chief, but had they known this was coming, what would they have done about it besides "known it was coming." Maybe they could blown the CEO to prevent him from calling the contract.

The truth of the matter is small pathology groups don't stand much of a chance and against for profit massive corporations (or even the revenue maximizing interests of not-for-profit hospitals).

 

[LADoc00]

Agreed that Indians need a chief, but had they known this was coming, what would they have done about it besides "known it was coming." Maybe they could blown the CEO to prevent him from calling the contract.

The truth of the matter is small pathology groups don't stand much of a chance and against for profit massive corporations (or even the revenue maximizing interests of not-for-profit hospitals).

Yeah there was actually lots they could have done including deep sixing the entire deal through a variety of means at their disposal and in the process emerging with control over at least the OP Anatomic stuff to save some of the jobs.

But instead they made the decision to HIRE more mouths to feed when they should have closed ranks. It was an amateur move and one you only make once when owning a business typically...that is before it tanks.

When I order my businesses to form Shield Wall, they Shield Wall. They dont convene at the local Chevy's over margaritas and "dish" how they want to hire all their buddies from the nearby UC... There will be people out of job, unable to pay mortgages, perhaps with spouses that CANT relocate. These people needed a leader not a Cub Scout Chevy's Margarita Den Mother.

 

[pathstudent]

Yeah there was actually lots they could have done including deep sixing the entire deal through a variety of means at their disposal and in the process emerging with control over at least the OP Anatomic stuff to save some of the jobs.

But instead they made the decision to HIRE more mouths to feed when they should have closed ranks. It was an amateur move and one you only make once when owning a business typically...that is before it tanks.

When I order my businesses to form Shield Wall, they Shield Wall. They dont convene at the local Chevy's over margaritas and "dish" how they want to hire all their buddies from the nearby UC... There will be people out of job, unable to pay mortgages, perhaps with spouses that CANT relocate. These people needed a leader not a Cub Scout Chevy's Margarita Den Mother.

I don't understand how they could have lost their outpatient surgicals as those weren't the hospitals to sell to LabCorp. Even if they were using the hospital histo lab for processing and were given the minimum notice, they should have had about 90 days to figure out a plan B.