JSGMESB questions

[Smooth as Eggs]

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I'm a 4th yr AF HPSP DO student in the process of completing my JSGMESB application. I've tried to do some searches on here for info and other google searches but I figured I'd go ahead and post on here. I'm shooting for emergency medicine and I know it's extremely competitive in the AF as well as civilian world. I'm an average student, avg board scores, no prior service or research exp etc. So I'm pretty much banking on the flight surgeon/gmo route. In the application I still have to rank all the AF programs but for my second option I either rank another specialty (which I'm not doing) or rank an intern year; IM, surgery, or transitional. I guess my question is which should I rank in order to prep me for some flight surgery/gmo time, (then hopefully on to an EM residency), and are they competitive? Also I'm filling out my eras app and applying to some civilian programs. Should I also rank some osteopathic traditional rotating internships in my eras app along with some of the civilian programs? Thanks guys.

 

[Kilgoretrout 65]

First you really need to try to rotate at the AF place you are most interested in for residency and talk to/interview with the PD. You are right, your chances of getting in are probably low, but the PD and other residents/faculty can give you a clearer picture of the path to take. A Transitional year will give you more flexibility for later career change, these are mildly competitive. You might as well try to do the TY at the same place you want to do residency if possible.

 

[Smooth as Eggs]

Thanks man that's kinda what I was thinking. Just hoping I land at one of the TY spots. If not it looks like I'll be going civilian into a traditional rotating internship before flight medicine for a few years. The next 2 months I'll be at AF rotations in EM so hopefully I'll get some good insight from the residents/attendings there. Anyone have any advice if one of the LOR that you requested haven't been sent in yet and you've asked more than once and it's the one letter from the specialty you're applying for?😕 I have others I can use that aren't EM but the one from an EM physician is what I'm waiting on. But I need to send this in like in the next few days...

 

[deuist]

For the LOR, call DPAME and explain the delay. They are understanding to your plight of letter writers who can't get on the ball. I didn't think that the letters would be due until October, though.

Do not rank transitional year or any other specialties on the JSGME application. List EM only, and feel free to rank civilian deferral wherever you want. If you do not match in the Air Force, you will likely get selected for "transitional year-deferred," which is what I got during medical school. As far as ERAS, go ahead and apply to a few PGY-1 spots where you could see yourself fitting in. Once the AF lists you as "transitional year-deferred" you will then be able to rank these locations on NRMP.

Do well during your transitional and publish whatever you can get accepted. The AF counts "multiple peer-reviewed publications" in whatever $hit journal will put your name in print. You'll get enough points that you should be able to match in the JSGME the second time around.

Now that I think about it, we should band together on this board to create a Journal of Military Medical Advances and get any ole crap published so that people can claim it for their applications.

 

[Smooth as Eggs]

I don't know if they've changed it this year but my JSGMESB packet on the timeline page says Sept 13 as the deadline when everything needs to arrive at their office which includes the LORs. As mentioned I have other letters just not any from an EM physician. Which I'm not sure if it will make a difference considering how competitive it is and that I will probably end up spending at least some time in flight medicine either way. Just out of curiosity (because I'm still a little confused about this whole process reading the packet of information), why do you recommend I do not list TY as a 2nd option?

 

[Smooth as Eggs]

And It's been over 3 years now since I attended COT. I guess I'll have time to bring back some of those memories over the next couple of months on my AF rotations, but I've pretty much forgotten everything about military life/customs since then. Pretty sure I don't have that little white manual anymore to read through... Any way I can brush up on those, or just show up and re-learn on the fly?

 

[deuist]

Just out of curiosity (because I'm still a little confused about this whole process reading the packet of information), why do you recommend I do not list TY as a 2nd option?

You don't want the board to think that you're willing to accept anything else.

 

[deuist]

And It's been over 3 years now since I attended COT. I guess I'll have time to bring back some of those memories over the next couple of months on my AF rotations, but I've pretty much forgotten everything about military life/customs since then. Pretty sure I don't have that little white manual anymore to read through... Any way I can brush up on those, or just show up and re-learn on the fly?

Just wear your uniform and salute. There's nothing else you need to do on rotations. If necessary, you can read the Air Force Officer's Guide. There is a website that tells you how to wear the uniforms.

 

[Smooth as Eggs]

I think I know the answer already but just want to clarify. You don't necessarily have to do your ADT at a military location, right? I guess I'm just wondering if it's worth it to do 2 at military training locations, or if I should just do 1, fulfill my obligatory interview with PD, then do a rotation instead closer to home and count it as an ADT. Especially if I'm throwing around the idea of doing my 4 years in flight medicine and separating to come back and train civilain. Thoughts?

 

[Doctor Bob]

I think I know the answer already but just want to clarify. You don't necessarily have to do your ADT at a military location, right? I guess I'm just wondering if it's worth it to do 2 at military training locations, or if I should just do 1, fulfill my obligatory interview with PD, then do a rotation instead closer to home and count it as an ADT. Especially if I'm throwing around the idea of doing my 4 years in flight medicine and separating to come back and train civilain. Thoughts?

Unless the rules have changed, both ADTs have to be done at military locations.
Doing both of your ADTs at military locations is your best bet anyways; although the odds are slim that you'd get an EM spot right out of medical school, you want to be known to as many of the AF EM PDs as you can so when they all sit down with the other board members in Nov/Dec you have the best chance possible.

 

[Smooth as Eggs]

This is from the afit website regarding adt's:

"45 Day Campus Tour at Student's Medical School

HPSP medical and osteopathic students have the option of doing a campus tour at their school instead of deferring an ADT. Students doing campus tours must be at their school attending classes, doing clinicals or studying for Boards during the 45 day period. You cannot be on vacation or out of the country while on your campus tour."

They may have changed it to this recently but it sounds like you can and I thought I had seen other people post that they had done this before, just making sure I understand that correctly. I guess I'm just asking because I realize the chances of me actually matching straight out of school in the military are slim to none, if I match later it would mean added time to my commitment, and I'm strongly considering doing my 4 years and then training civilian; partially because I just want to fulfill my commitment and get out, and also because I've rotated at a couple of local places that I have loved and feel that I would fit in well with the residency, got good reports from the residents/attendings etc.

 

[Doctor Bob]

This is from the afit website regarding adt's:

"45 Day Campus Tour at Student's Medical School

HPSP medical and osteopathic students have the option of doing a campus tour at their school instead of deferring an ADT. Students doing campus tours must be at their school attending classes, doing clinicals or studying for Boards during the 45 day period. You cannot be on vacation or out of the country while on your campus tour."

They may have changed it to this recently but it sounds like you can and I thought I had seen other people post that they had done this before, just making sure I understand that correctly. I guess I'm just asking because I realize the chances of me actually matching straight out of school in the military are slim to none, if I match later it would mean added time to my commitment, and I'm strongly considering doing my 4 years and then training civilian; partially because I just want to fulfill my commitment and get out, and also because I've rotated at a couple of local places that I have loved and feel that I would fit in well with the residency, got good reports from the residents/attendings etc.

Hmm... the campus tour... forgot about those since they are so rarely done...

Well, keep in mind that if you rotate at a local place, they won't see you again for 4+ years... I can't remember any medical students (who didn't match) who rotated at our place 2 years ago let alone 4...

So it won't make that big of a difference... LORs from that time will be worthless as well.

 

[Smooth as Eggs]

For the LOR, call DPAME and explain the delay. They are understanding to your plight of letter writers who can't get on the ball. I didn't think that the letters would be due until October, though.

Do not rank transitional year or any other specialties on the JSGME application. List EM only, and feel free to rank civilian deferral wherever you want. If you do not match in the Air Force, you will likely get selected for "transitional year-deferred," which is what I got during medical school. As far as ERAS, go ahead and apply to a few PGY-1 spots where you could see yourself fitting in. Once the AF lists you as "transitional year-deferred" you will then be able to rank these locations on NRMP.

Do well during your transitional and publish whatever you can get accepted. The AF counts "multiple peer-reviewed publications" in whatever $hit journal will put your name in print. You'll get enough points that you should be able to match in the JSGME the second time around.

Now that I think about it, we should band together on this board to create a Journal of Military Medical Advances and get any ole crap published so that people can claim it for their applications.

Hey Deuist thanks for the advice. Were you able to match after PGY1 year, or did serve 2-4 years in FS/GMO? I'm preparing myself for the reality of this and just trying to find out as much info on the whole match process as possible.

 

[deuist]

Match after PGY-1. Getting published helped. Also, good rec letters from internship go a long way.

 

[Smooth as Eggs]

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[Smooth as Eggs]

Hmm... the campus tour... forgot about those since they are so rarely done...

Well, keep in mind that if you rotate at a local place, they won't see you again for 4+ years... I can't remember any medical students (who didn't match) who rotated at our place 2 years ago let alone 4...

So it won't make that big of a difference... LORs from that time will be worthless as well.

Just to be difficult here, if the most likely scenario happens in which I do intern year then FS tour, the military programs wouldn't see me for 3 years ... I am currently scheduled for 2 ADT's at military places. Just throwing around ideas since if I end up going this route I will most likely do 2 more years to finish my commitment, then separate to a civilian residency since after a 2 year tour a residency in the military would incur more time to payback.