jury duty just before M2

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sunset823

sunset823

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Hey guys,
I'm in a bind. I've been summoned for jury duty two days before my (mandatory) M2 orientation (includes CPR training and all that jazz, and is required before I see patients), in a state where I have my permanent address, but I haven't lived in over a year. I and my dean have tried incessantly to get me a deferral or exemption, and the court absolutely refuses to listen.

If I get selected for a jury, I have to take a leave of absence from school for the entire year. So I really need out. Are there any helpful tips and tricks to make sure I am NOT selected? Driving 7 hours from home to school in one day the day before I start is a pain, but it's better than the alternative.

Please help. Thanks.
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Contact your local repesentative there. Once you explain the situation he or she should be able to help. The same thing happened to my daughter and that resolved the problem quickly. Good luck.
 
sunset823 said:
Hey guys,
I'm in a bind. I've been summoned for jury duty two days before my (mandatory) M2 orientation (includes CPR training and all that jazz, and is required before I see patients), in a state where I have my permanent address, but I haven't lived in over a year. I and my dean have tried incessantly to get me a deferral or exemption, and the court absolutely refuses to listen.

If I get selected for a jury, I have to take a leave of absence from school for the entire year. So I really need out. Are there any helpful tips and tricks to make sure I am NOT selected? Driving 7 hours from home to school in one day the day before I start is a pain, but it's better than the alternative.

Please help. Thanks.
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Don't get selected.
 
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When they're going through the potential jurors, when it's your turn to speak, just say you think the defendant is guilty. Guilty, guilty, guilty! And nothing anyone says can change your mind. If they ask "why?" tell them it's the guilty look on his guilty face.

:thumbup:
 
when they ask if you think you can be impartial say no because you'd rather be at med school so if the guy looks guilty, you'll probably agree he's guilty just to get outta there.

either that or act like a racist lol
 
I agree with notyourmom, it worked for me. Don't do anything stupid like pretending to be racist. I think people have been held in contempt of court for doing that.
 
In most states, you can get out of having to show up if you have a valid reason like being out of state for school. There should be a phone # or email on the summons notice. Contact them and they will tell you how to get out of it. I've done it twice before while i was in school.

And for God's sake, please dont show up and start acting crazy of saying racists things to get out of it. I wouldnt risk the possibilty of leaving a record somewhere with my name on it explaining that i was not fit for jury duty due to racist thoughts. Probabaly unlikely, but i wouldnt chance it.
 
Do you have to maintain a permanent residence in that state during medical school? Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I would just tell the court you left the state.
 
If it is a malpractice case, you will probably get dismissed. Just say you will side with the doctors all the time.

If it is criminal, tell them that if someone is arrested it is likely because they are guilty. Say that you don't really believe in the innocent till proven guilty stuff. It worked for a few people when I was in jury duty.
 
Sounds like you haven't changed your permanent residence so you don't have much choice. Go, explain the hardship that it would cause, and hopefully you'll be excused. Maybe you'll also change your permanent address now. Can't you take ACLS and stuff this summer so that you still have some of what you need?

It sounds remarkably inflexible of your dean to not be able to accommodate you if you get called for jury duty for a couple days.
 
red10 said:
when they ask if you think you can be impartial say no because you'd rather be at med school so if the guy looks guilty, you'll probably agree he's guilty just to get outta there.

either that or act like a racist lol
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What if the OP and the defendant are of the same race?
 
notyourmom said:
Contact your local repesentative there. Once you explain the situation he or she should be able to help. The same thing happened to my daughter and that resolved the problem quickly. Good luck.
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KeyzerSoze said:
I agree with notyourmom, it worked for me. Don't do anything stupid like pretending to be racist. I think people have been held in contempt of court for doing that.
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I tried this this morning, contacting both my state and federal representatives offices - didn't help, they were just like 'the final decision is with the judge'

I'm not planning on using the racism card - it's kinda hard anyway, cuz I'm brown (and have gotten browner since I've been living in the south all summer)

Mr hawkings said:
In most states, you can get out of having to show up if you have a valid reason like being out of state for school. There should be a phone # or email on the summons notice. Contact them and they will tell you how to get out of it. I've done it twice before while i was in school.

And for God's sake, please dont show up and start acting crazy of saying racists things to get out of it. I wouldnt risk the possibilty of leaving a record somewhere with my name on it explaining that i was not fit for jury duty due to racist thoughts. Probabaly unlikely, but i wouldnt chance it.
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trust me, I've tried to make this point to them, that I'm in school out of state and have not lived in that state for over a year, but they are not listening. I also agree with not wanting to leave a record of things like that.

SoCuteMD said:
Sounds like you haven't changed your permanent residence so you don't have much choice. Go, explain the hardship that it would cause, and hopefully you'll be excused. Maybe you'll also change your permanent address now. Can't you take ACLS and stuff this summer so that you still have some of what you need?

It sounds remarkably inflexible of your dean to not be able to accommodate you if you get called for jury duty for a couple days.
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I didn't change my permanent residence primarily because I end up switching apartments every year (really, every 9 months), and it's a pain in the neck to have to change my license and all my documents to reflect the new address - never thought it would come to this, cuz I know plenty of other people in other states who got out of it just by saying they were med students

The school is willing to accommodate me, but it's a pain for me to make up CPR training and everything after classes have already started, and we have to go in and start doing patient histories pretty much in the first couple of weeks, so I would not be able to participate in that critical aspect of medical education until I make up everything, which involves me needlessly missing class. And I have no idea whether it would be a couple of days or a month, if the latter, I obviously need to take an LoA.

Anyway, thanks for the advice everyone, I'll just need to play it by day. I think telling god's honest truth that I am an overeducated, belligerent formerly pre-law individual, it would be a perfect storm of what lawyers wouldn't want.
 
Maybe it's worth consulting a lawyer. It sounds like you have more than enough cause to get out of this and the judge is just being a dick on the assumption that you'll just roll over.
 
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WellWornLad said:
Maybe it's worth consulting a lawyer. It sounds like you have more than enough cause to get out of this and the judge is just being a dick on the assumption that you'll just roll over.
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ha. I completely agree that this is vindictiveness on either part of the judge or someone in the jury staff (I wouldn't be all that surprised if the judge never actually saw mine or the Dean's letters). Maybe somebody rejected from medical school, haha (since this is a yuppie college town, that's not farfetched).

As for consulting a lawyer, I'll only pursue that option if it came to the point of me having to take an LoA because of this. If I still make it to orientation or make everything up, it's been a big pain but no harm, no foul.
 
Okay, this should do it. There should be a place to defer to another date (usually within 6-9 months). Ask for the last possible date before Christmas vacation, if your school lets you off for those 10 days. Granted, if you're called its a really boring day, but by then boring might be just where you want to be. Good luck, your state is very unreasonable.
 
I had this problem also (my permanent residence is in NY, but I live in VT during the school year). It took a while to straighten it out, but I finally did.

This is the deal: it doesn't matter if you have a permanent residence or voter registration or whatever in a given state, IF YOU ARE NOT ACTUALLY RESIDING THERE when called for jury duty. The voter registration, in particular, has nothing to do with jury duty, even though many people think it does. They just use those addresses as a convenient source of names, but there is no legal connection between your voter registration and your jury duty.

Similarly, the NY jury duty people were all beside themselves because I hadn't changed my forwarding address at the post office. I explained (multiple times) that the rest of my family still lives at that same address, so they wouldn't get THEIR mail if I forwarded everything to VT.

They finally got the idea after about 5 repetitions. Then they made me fax them a copy of my lease, several months' worth of utility bills, and my term bill from med school, to prove that I was really up there for the reason I had stated. Once they got those, they finally left me alone.

Just keep repeating, "I am attending school full-time in another state. I am attending school full-time in another state" until someone starts listening to you.
 
I got a summons last year and told my dean about it. She wrote a letter and got me out of it for until after graduation. Just talk to your dean or someone at school - they have protocols for this type of situation.
 
I'd rather spend the next 3 years with a warrant out for my arrest than spend the rest of my life having to tell people that I was forced to repeat a year of medical school because of jury duty.

Do what you gotta do to get yourself outta this. We're medical students. To get into medical school these days, we gotta be god dam fanatics, so I'm sure you can think of something.
 
student1799 said:
Similarly, the NY jury duty people were all beside themselves because I hadn't changed my forwarding address at the post office. I explained (multiple times) that the rest of my family still lives at that same address, so they wouldn't get THEIR mail if I forwarded everything to VT.
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unless you have the exact same name as another member of your family, only your mail would have to be forwarded. you just do a single person forwarding with the postal service. it would be too much trouble for me to have my parents open all my mail and read it to me over the phone, so i always had my stuff forwarded to me...
 
If you play the racist card (blatantly trying to dodge jury duty in front of the judge) it can actually end you up in jail or with a fine. I have read news storys about people who were tossed in jail by the judge for doing so.
 
The Poet Sings said:
unless you have the exact same name as another member of your family, only your mail would have to be forwarded.
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I know that, but I'm married, and some of the joint bills/bank statements/etc. have my name on them.
 
sunset823 said:
I'm not planning on using the racism card - it's kinda hard anyway, cuz I'm brown (and have gotten browner since I've been living in the south all summer)
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Brown people can be racist against White people...

red10 said:
well then i suppose they'll think the OP is extra crazy now won't they?

not to mention it wasn't a serious suggestion...:rolleyes:
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Sure, it wasn't. ;)
 
notyourmom said:
Okay, this should do it. There should be a place to defer to another date (usually within 6-9 months). Ask for the last possible date before Christmas vacation, if your school lets you off for those 10 days. Granted, if you're called its a really boring day, but by then boring might be just where you want to be. Good luck, your state is very unreasonable.
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won't work - I actually already deferred once, because the first time I was in the south on the internship (long story, but I thought I would be in another branch campus that started later at the time I deferred) - this might be part of the reason they are giving me such a hard time, but it's not that difficult to grant a second deferral - besides, the only time I'm going to be home next is May 2011 to study for boards

and I would say it's the county that's being unreasonable, I talked to a good friend who lives in a neighboring county and when she said she's a med student she was exempted, no questions asked

student1799 said:
I had this problem also (my permanent residence is in NY, but I live in VT during the school year). It took a while to straighten it out, but I finally did.

This is the deal: it doesn't matter if you have a permanent residence or voter registration or whatever in a given state, IF YOU ARE NOT ACTUALLY RESIDING THERE when called for jury duty. The voter registration, in particular, has nothing to do with jury duty, even though many people think it does. They just use those addresses as a convenient source of names, but there is no legal connection between your voter registration and your jury duty.

Similarly, the NY jury duty people were all beside themselves because I hadn't changed my forwarding address at the post office. I explained (multiple times) that the rest of my family still lives at that same address, so they wouldn't get THEIR mail if I forwarded everything to VT.

They finally got the idea after about 5 repetitions. Then they made me fax them a copy of my lease, several months' worth of utility bills, and my term bill from med school, to prove that I was really up there for the reason I had stated. Once they got those, they finally left me alone.

Just keep repeating, "I am attending school full-time in another state. I am attending school full-time in another state" until someone starts listening to you.
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problem is, I'm switching to a new branch campus, so I haven't signed my new lease yet and don't have any utility bills. I'm probably going to take over my new apt late next week, so I might fax it to them, and also try to get a new drivers license and show them I really don't live there anymore.

MsKrispyKreme said:
Brown people can be racist against White people...
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I'm a coconut, so yeah, that won't work
 
Last edited:
Given what has been said and done already:

DOs:
1. Show up to the court on the appropriate day.
2. Act polite.
3. Be sincere.
4. Explain that you no longer reside in the state.
5. Explain that this will cause you undue hardship since you will be held back for ONE whole year, which will have significant consequences in your life --- like losing your financial aid and becoming destitute; losing important knowledge and skills that would otherwise be reinforced during the year in school; having to explain to every medical board/licensing body, likely in writing, why you have a gap in your education.
6. Be humble.

DON'Ts:
1. Don't hyperventilate or act hysterical or agitated in any other way.
2. Don't lie or misrepresent yourself or your views.
3. Don't act pompous or self important.
4. Don't present yourself as smarter or more important than everyone else.
5. Don't give off an air of entitlement.
6. Don't make your education/career/life appear more important than everyone else's in the courtroom.

REPEAT: Don't lie!

Contrary to what many people may think, most judges are very reasonable and sensible people. When you clearly state the true hardships that you will face, as I have outlined above, no judge is going to force you onto that jury. Taking away a year of a person's life and taking away their livelihood is an undue burden no judge will impose.
 
It sounds like you've already gone through school channels and appealed for hardship deferment and been denied. The easiest way for you to get out of this is changing your permanent address. You don't have to do anything other than calling or writing the court, and telling them you no longer reside at the address on file. Provide them with your new address. You can include photocopies of your lease and/or utility bills as proof. Instruct them not to correspond with you at the old address, because you will not receive it. It will go away. They can't have jury members from outside their jurisdiction. It shouldn't require you changing anything else as far as your legal documents go.

Alternatively, just serve. You probably won't get called. It might be a hassle missing some stuff at orientation, but you can take CPR cert at any local first aid squad. You could probably take it this week, and be ready to go after jury duty. The benefit of this is you are exempt from jury duty for 2 years, so you will avoid a REAL problem of trying to get out of it during rotations.
 
worse comes to worse just don't show up, they do not arrest people for not showing up to jury duty. whatever slap on the wrist penalty they give you (if any) is alot better then having to defer a rear of med school
 
you could always fake your death
 
kdburton said:
you could always fake your death
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ha. I think I've been watching too many lawyer shows (don't watch any medical shows, but can get enough of law, ironically), but if I pursued that option, I would not be planning on returning to medical school, and this whole thread is moot.

As for just not showing, some places say that lands you in jail for a month (the denial letter said I would be in contempt of court), some say nothing happens.

I think what I've decided is that as soon as I sign my lease I will fax it to the jury office, and e-mail them beforehand letting them know the exact address of the place I'm moving into and the check showing I've taken rentership. They can't come after me when there's proof I no longer live there.

Thanks all, might be a good time to kill the thread.
 
MsKrispyKreme said:
What if the OP and the defendant are of the same race?
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bigsby.jpg
 
Since you are a Michigan alumnus I presume that you have been called to jury duty in Ann Arbor, Washtenaw County, Michigan. If this is a criminal trial involving a University of Michigan athlete you will be excused from jury duty if you tell the judge and the prosecutor that you would vote for a conviction if you have no reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty. Under the Washtenaw County rules of Criminal Procedure, no Michigan athlete can be convicted of any crime whatsoever without regard to the evidence, the law or public opinion.

If you would like to see prior cases involving this rule of criminal procedure look up the following names: Brian Griese, Red Berenson, Shonte Peoples and everyone's favorite Larry Harrison, Jr.
 
sunset823 said:
Hey guys,
I'm in a bind. I've been summoned for jury duty two days before my (mandatory) M2 orientation (includes CPR training and all that jazz, and is required before I see patients), in a state where I have my permanent address, but I haven't lived in over a year. I and my dean have tried incessantly to get me a deferral or exemption, and the court absolutely refuses to listen.

If I get selected for a jury, I have to take a leave of absence from school for the entire year. So I really need out. Are there any helpful tips and tricks to make sure I am NOT selected? Driving 7 hours from home to school in one day the day before I start is a pain, but it's better than the alternative.

Please help. Thanks.
Click to expand...

What did you say in the letter? Try one more time. But as other mentioned, be extremely radical.
 
Nobody has pointed out that your dean is also being a dick. They would really make you defer the entire year? What kind of clowns run your school administration?
 
TheProwler said:
Nobody has pointed out that your dean is also being a dick. They would really make you defer the entire year? What kind of clowns run your school administration?
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Yeah, I don't know how I missed that. That is utter nonsense, and I don't believe it's true. Second year orientation is like 2-3 days of the biggest waste of time in all of med school. OP should be able to make up the CPR class, and everything else is complete fluff. If they are going to be hard asses about it, they should still find a way for the OP to make up the sessions (videos and quizzes maybe?).

OP, I'm pretty sure they are required by law to make you available for jury duty, so if it really is looking like you'll have to serve I would look up the relevant statutes ASAP and include them in a letter to the dean formally explaining the situation and proposing a reasonable course of action. Send it by registered mail. Time to generate some paper.
 
Excuse me while I take down a personal note not to live in Illinois.

Excuse me also while fighting the urge to send the jury mangers at the court house by my permanent address (parents' address) a thank you card. Got called for jury duty when in grad school out of state. Marked the box on the back saying I wasn't currently living in California. Never heard back.

Prior two times allowed postponements upto 6 months via the phone system without needing any reason or verification.

Dear Vista Court House in California, you guys rock!
 
This happened to me RIGHT BEFORE STEP 1!!!!!!!!

But yeah I had a GREAT reason to get off :)

Then I somehow (??) got called for jury duty AGAIN 2 times in the next 3 years! HOW???

And apparently now I'm an election judge for the next 3 years in my county...hahahaha.....it seems like the busy people always get called haha
 
Siggy said:
Prior two times allowed postponements upto 6 months via the phone system without needing any reason or verification.

Dear Vista Court House in California, you guys rock!
Click to expand...

Must be a California thing. That was my exact experience with being called for jury duty. Thats why i was so suprised at how much difficulty the OP is having.
 
Siggy said:
Excuse me while I take down a personal note not to live in Illinois.
!
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actually, it's Michigan.

Anyway, problem solved, they finally, after a lot of effort, granted me a second deferment to the week right after I finish M2 classes. And to some other people, my school/dean were willing to accommodate me, but the M2 orientation at our school is very different from a typical one cuz we are in a branch campus where you basically start brand new as an M2. Also, if I ended up on a trial that took a month, yes, an LoA is the only option.
 
sunset823 said:
actually, it's Michigan.

Anyway, problem solved, they finally, after a lot of effort, granted me a second deferment to the week right after I finish M2 classes. And to some other people, my school/dean were willing to accommodate me, but the M2 orientation at our school is very different from a typical one cuz we are in a branch campus where you basically start brand new as an M2. Also, if I ended up on a trial that took a month, yes, an LoA is the only option.
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Glad it worked out. I don't care if it's branch campus, there is no reason you would have take a year of school off because of a couple days' orientation. That's absurd. The likelihood of getting on a trial which lasts a month is very, very slim. Even if you end up on a trial, they usually only last a day or two maximum.
 
cpants said:
Glad it worked out. I don't care if it's branch campus, there is no reason you would have take a year of school off because of a couple days' orientation. That's absurd. The likelihood of getting on a trial which lasts a month is very, very slim. Even if you end up on a trial, they usually only last a day or two maximum.
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You never know, OJ could kill someone in prison and drag it out for another 15 months.
 
sunset823 said:
actually, it's Michigan.

Anyway, problem solved, they finally, after a lot of effort, granted me a second deferment to the week right after I finish M2 classes. And to some other people, my school/dean were willing to accommodate me, but the M2 orientation at our school is very different from a typical one cuz we are in a branch campus where you basically start brand new as an M2. Also, if I ended up on a trial that took a month, yes, an LoA is the only option.
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yay, jury duty during board study? haha
 
You wouldn't have gotten called back for the case if you had told the attorneys that you do not believe you could be common, that you would automatically trust an officer's testimony, or that you would automatically trust a doctor's testimony due to your close connections with the law and hospitals. Worked for me based on working on my university's ambulance.

The sucky part would have been going for the day of waiting, but I don't believe there'd be a chance in hell of actually getting called back
 
TheProwler said:
You never know, OJ could kill someone in prison and drag it out for another 15 months.
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It's true you never know, but 99 times out of 100 you will not be on a rape or murder. Most of the stuff will be straightforward stuff like burglary or fraud.
 
Change your voting address, your driver's license, and your residence to the city where you go to medical school. then send proof of that to th jury selection people. People move out of state all the time and they cannot be compelled to return to a city where they no longer live
 
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