Just accept reality folks

[Nick525]

Ladies and Gents,

Lets just face it. The profession of medicine is about to take a drastic turn to the worse, and there is nothing we can do about it. Barack Hussein Obama is a master manipulator and enjoys a full endoresment from our media. He will undoubetdly get whatever he wants passed very quickly, all we can do is sit back and watch.....

Obama is putting in "Pay Czars" to regulate CEO compensation to $500,000. If CEO's of multinational companies are worth $500K to Obama, what are us future doctors worth? Once the majority of people switch to Obama's government backed insurance, politicians will dictate our pay. I am predicting average physician salaries will EVENTUALLY drop to about $75-90K within our lifetime. Once a government health care system is adopted, it cannot be reversed. No politican will ever be able to get elected if he or she tries to take away everyones free healthcare....

Democrats view doctors as public servants, and they will be in power for a very long time.....Thats the unfortunate reality.

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[chessknt]

Unfortunately for them we have the power to withhold our services after a point. I know I will quit medicine/move immediately if compensation drops that much, and since my education was subsidized by Uncle Sam, that would be like shooting himself in the foot wouldnt it?

 

[guitarguy09]

There is no way salaries would drop to $75-90K. You have to factor things in like inflation and whatnot. 25 years from now hat would be like making $50K right now and they can't justify paying doctors that little compared to nurses, etc. However, I do agree that reimbursement will go down in the future from where it is right now. Personally, I really hope that they just figure something out to help us in our loan repayment if they are going to mess with salaries. (This is one reason why physicians of some other countries with nationalized healthcare are not as burdened with their salaries, because they don't have the debt load that we do in the US.)

That being said, this is why EVERYONE needs to join the AMA and/or their respective professional organizations so they have the means to make our voices heard by the policy makers.

 

[MOHS_01]

Ladies and Gents,

Lets just face it. The profession of medicine is about to take a drastic turn to the worse, and there is nothing we can do about it. Barack Hussein Obama is a master manipulator and enjoys a full endoresment from our media. He will undoubetdly get whatever he wants passed very quickly, all we can do is sit back and watch.....

Obama is putting in "Pay Czars" to regulate CEO compensation to $500,000. If CEO's of multinational companies are worth $500K to Obama, what are us future doctors worth? Once the majority of people switch to Obama's government backed insurance, politicians will dictate our pay. I am predicting average physician salaries will EVENTUALLY drop to about $75-90K within our lifetime. Once a government health care system is adopted, it cannot be reversed. No politican will ever be able to get elected if he or she tries to take away everyones free healthcare....

Democrats view doctors as public servants, and they will be in power for a very long time.....Thats the unfortunate reality.

I accept none of the above as a foregone conclusion beyond the next few years. Will things change? Most definitely. Will it be anything like 75-90k per annum? Not in our lifetime (unless median household income drops to 20-30k). At those numbers, I can rally even the bleeding heart libtards amongst us -- either through eviction notices from their banks for falling behind on their mortgages or LADoc00 (Chicago) style kneecap bashing antics.... one way or another, MD's would revolt against that form of oppression.

 

[Rendar5]

love how the OP puts in the president's full middle name in there in order to make his point. Annoying trolls. (and this from someone who thinks his lecture to the AMA was a joke)

 

[seelee]

A horrible negative attitude. Think of what would have happend if our founding fathers had such an attitude. I do not doubt that the government will continue trying to gain power and oppress the people. But it only has power to do so as long as we let it. If you lay down and let such a thing happen, then you deserve the consequence sir.

 

[Black Adder]

Ladies and Gents,

Lets just face it. The profession of medicine is about to take a drastic turn to the worse, and there is nothing we can do about it. Barack Hussein Obama is a master manipulator and enjoys a full endoresment from our media. He will undoubetdly get whatever he wants passed very quickly, all we can do is sit back and watch.....

Obama is putting in "Pay Czars" to regulate CEO compensation to $500,000. If CEO's of multinational companies are worth $500K to Obama, what are us future doctors worth? Once the majority of people switch to Obama's government backed insurance, politicians will dictate our pay. I am predicting average physician salaries will EVENTUALLY drop to about $75-90K within our lifetime. Once a government health care system is adopted, it cannot be reversed. No politican will ever be able to get elected if he or she tries to take away everyones free healthcare....

Democrats view doctors as public servants, and they will be in power for a very long time.....Thats the unfortunate reality.

Aside from fear mongering, why is it necessary to throw in his middle name? During the last presidency when people disented and discussed the policies of the previous president, no one went out of their way to say George Walker Bush... Also, about the comment regarding full endorsement by the media, I would reccomend the OP tune in on occassion to FOX news.

I'm also worried about the uncertain future of health care and how this will affect physicians as well as patients. I'm only a premed student and am only in the process of applying to med school, but the prospect of drastically reduced physician salaries certainly worries me considering the amount of debt that will be headed my way. I think a cool headed discussion and a call to action is needed, but certainly not this sort of fear mongering.

 

[FatKid]

love how the OP puts in the president's full middle name in there in order to make his point. Annoying trolls. (and this from someone who thinks his lecture to the AMA was a joke)

His name is Barack Hussein Obama.

Why does his middle name offend you? He is of Muslim heritage and his middle name espouses that.

 

[physasst]

His name is Barack Hussein Obama.

Why does his middle name offend you? He is of Muslim heritage and his middle name espouses that.

It doesn't offend me at all. If in fact he was a practicing muslim, it still wouldn't affect my opinion. IN fact, perhaps the best da*n thing that could happen to this country would be to elect a practicing muslim to the WH.

 

[Black Adder]

His name is Barack Hussein Obama.

Why does his middle name offend you? He is of Muslim heritage and his middle name espouses that.

The name itself isn't offensive. The use of it to arouse anger and mistrust is manipulative and it's clearly banking on the fact that most americans don't have warm, fuzzy feelings towards islam and islamic sounding names.

 

[Nick525]

Thanks for the replies fellas. A few thoughts:

1. "Unfortunately for them we have the power to withhold our services after a point."

This will never happen. There will always be that fresh medical graduate who is $300K in debt and would rather get paid $15 bucks from Obama for an office visit than sit idly doing nothing.

2. "There is no way salaries would drop to $75-90K"

Why? That's roughly double what the average American makes? If I was Obama, I would say "You're tellin me you can't live comfortably making twice as much as everyone else out there?" Politicians will side with the majority of the people, and the majority of the people are never going to see things from a doctors perspective. (Huge Loans, 50% practice overhead, malpractice insurance, etc etc etc)

3. "Aside from fear mongering, why is it necessary to throw in his middle name?"

Ah I get it. Its wrong for me to use the very name our President recited when he took the oath of office. And if I point out how physician salaries are going to plummet, that's mean old fear mongering. However, when Barack (I won't use his middle name just for you Black Adder) Obama says stuff like the world as we know it is going to end and that America may go the way of GM if we don't fix healthcare at this exact moment, that's not fear mongering. That must be the truth, huh?

4. "I would reccomend the OP tune in on occassion to FOX news."

Ok OK you got me there. Every OTHER news channel besides FOX News, and 98% of newspapers in our country are in the tank for Obama. Is that more accurate for you?

5. "If you lay down and let such a thing happen, then you deserve the consequence sir."

I agree. All future physicians should be concerned about what is happening to their profession. Everybody else in society is so protective of their income. I don't understand why people on this forum are so willing to lose theirs.

 

[MOHS_01]

Thanks for the replies fellas. A few thoughts:

1. "Unfortunately for them we have the power to withhold our services after a point."

This will never happen. There will always be that fresh medical graduate who is $300K in debt and would rather get paid $15 bucks from Obama for an office visit than sit idly doing nothing.

2. "There is no way salaries would drop to $75-90K"

Why? That's roughly double what the average American makes? If I was Obama, I would say "You're tellin me you can't live comfortably making twice as much as everyone else out there?" Politicians will side with the majority of the people, and the majority of the people are never going to see things from a doctors perspective. (Huge Loans, 50% practice overhead, malpractice insurance, etc etc etc)

3. "Aside from fear mongering, why is it necessary to throw in his middle name?"

Ah I get it. Its wrong for me to use the very name our President recited when he took the oath of office. And if I point out how physician salaries are going to plummet, that's mean old fear mongering. However, when Barack (I won't use his middle name just for you Black Adder) Obama says stuff like the world as we know it is going to end and that America may go the way of GM if we don't fix healthcare at this exact moment, that's not fear mongering. That must be the truth, huh?

4. "I would reccomend the OP tune in on occassion to FOX news."

Ok OK you got me there. Every OTHER news channel besides FOX News, and 98% of newspapers in our country are in the tank for Obama. Is that more accurate for you?

5. "If you lay down and let such a thing happen, then you deserve the consequence sir."

I agree. All future physicians should be concerned about what is happening to their profession. Everybody else in society is so protective of their income. I don't understand why people on this forum are so willing to lose theirs.

I don't know, but could it be because the vast majority who espouse the destruction of provider earning power are non-contributory members of society yet to be weaned from the public or parental teat?

 

[seelee]

I don't know, but could it be because the vast majority who espouse the destruction of provider earning power are non-contributory members of society yet to be weaned from the public or parental teat?

I love how the pre-med forums are full of tear filled paens of love to the dear leader. The student forums are about half and half, and the resident and attending forums are almost 100% anti-Obama. Once you start earning money, you become opposed to the idea of people taking it away from you.

Also, I've noticed much much less support for the Sun God ever since his AMA speech.

 

[chessknt]

Thanks for the replies fellas. A few thoughts:

1. "Unfortunately for them we have the power to withhold our services after a point."

This will never happen. There will always be that fresh medical graduate who is $300K in debt and would rather get paid $15 bucks from Obama for an office visit than sit idly doing nothing.

Who says we will sit idly doing nothing? There are many countries around the world that would gladly hire US grads that have had extensive specialist training subsidized by another government. You have to be willing to bite the bullet and leave/change careers if the government decides to treat you like crap. You still have the power here, dont give it to them by convincing yourself you have no choice.

 

[seelee]

Who says we will sit idly doing nothing? There are many countries around the world that would gladly hire US grads that have had extensive specialist training subsidized by another government. You have to be willing to bite the bullet and leave/change careers if the government decides to treat you like crap. You still have the power here, dont give it to them by convincing yourself you have no choice.

Obviously any country would hire a US doc, but which countries would be able to pay a competitive salary?

 

[FatKid]

I don't know, but could it be because the vast majority who espouse the destruction of provider earning power are non-contributory members of society yet to be weaned from the public or parental teat?

Winner of the thread.

Thread closed.

 

[tibor75]

there are plenty of doctors who aren't motivated by greed, despite the fact that everybody on this board seems to be.

 

[RGMSU]

I predict physician salaries will all drop to the neighborhood of 150 to 200 per year. It will take multiple years for this to happen. It will happen gradually like the Medicare reimbursement cuts always do. This will be bad news for the folks at the top of the chain - orthopedists, say - and no news for people in the non-surgical stuff - family practice, neurology, whatnot. The bad news is how much taxes will be raised during our lifetime to pay for all this. If you take out 50% taxes and all the money for your loans, no, we won't be getting what we deserve. And we won't be able to just quit and do something else. We will be stuck. And don't kid yourselves, folks, with all this deficit spending, there will come a time when tax rates are that high or higher again. This isn't about greed. It's about some people in our society who contribute virtually nothing to society getting paid ridiculous sums of money while people who contribute a lot - physicians, teachers, etc - are habitually undervalued. And, yeah, I agree that people increasingly view physicians as civil servants - about the same as firefighters, police, etc, who for the record are also undervalued.

 

[seelee]

I predict physician salaries will all drop to the neighborhood of 150 to 200 per year. It will take multiple years for this to happen. It will happen gradually like the Medicare reimbursement cuts always do. This will be bad news for the folks at the top of the chain - orthopedists, say - and no news for people in the non-surgical stuff - family practice, neurology, whatnot. The bad news is how much taxes will be raised during our lifetime to pay for all this. If you take out 50% taxes and all the money for your loans, no, we won't be getting what we deserve. And we won't be able to just quit and do something else. We will be stuck. And don't kid yourselves, folks, with all this deficit spending, there will come a time when tax rates are that high or higher again. This isn't about greed. It's about some people in our society who contribute virtually nothing to society getting paid ridiculous sums of money while people who contribute a lot - physicians, teachers, etc - are habitually undervalued. And, yeah, I agree that people increasingly view physicians as civil servants - about the same as firefighters, police, etc, who for the record are also undervalued.

The difference between physicians and firefighters is that you can be a firefighter or a policeman in a rural town without formal training. Not to mention that the time and expense for formal training for fire or police is miniscule compared to that for a physician.

 

[RGMSU]

Yeah, but that's my point. The general public doesn't recognize medical training for what it is. How many folks do you hear say docs are underpaid? I rest my case about public opinion and physician salaries. The folks I have heard talk about physician salaries declining seem quite content about it. A lot of folks still think doctors are overpaid. My dad always says, "I've never met a poor doctor." My response is, "Not yet, but you might in twenty years if trends continue." And the attempts by Congress to "fix" the healthcare system by imposing a bunch of rules and procedures like you would for school kids on a playground belies the complexity of the decisions made by physicians on a daily basis all day long. No amount of tinkering with the system will change the fact that medical decisions are often costly and time-consuming to render and treatments are more expensive than everyone would like them to be. All the tinkering will do is make the people delivering the remedies have to take a pay cut and make it harder, not easier, for patients to get access to the diagnostics and treatments they need.

 

[Rendar5]

Thanks for the replies fellas. A few thoughts:
3. "Aside from fear mongering, why is it necessary to throw in his middle name?"

Ah I get it. Its wrong for me to use the very name our President recited when he took the oath of office. And if I point out how physician salaries are going to plummet, that's mean old fear mongering. However, when Barack (I won't use his middle name just for you Black Adder) Obama says stuff like the world as we know it is going to end and that America may go the way of GM if we don't fix healthcare at this exact moment, that's not fear mongering. That must be the truth, huh?

let me requote this for you: "Who me? Why whatever are you talking about? *bats innocent eyes at the horrible suggestion that he could ever have been wording things in specific ways to get a reaction*"

I wouldn't have objected to your message if you weren't obviously manipulative in the way you said it, or if you just admitted to doing what everyone else does instead of pretending like you don't know what we're talking about.

I mean my god, it's like non-moderates can't just state their complaints in politics without resorting to more subliminal means. (and don't get me started on the more extreme libs, they're just as bad)

 

[LADoc00]

Unfortunately for them we have the power to withhold our services after a point. I know I will quit medicine/move immediately if compensation drops that much, and since my education was subsidized by Uncle Sam, that would be like shooting himself in the foot wouldnt it?

Yep, two words: ATLAS SHRUGGED.

That is the big white elephant in the room no one is talking about. No one...

 

[chessknt]

Obviously any country would hire a US doc, but which countries would be able to pay a competitive salary?

Probably not as competitive, but very close for less hours and more legal protections=big win. And if salaries go as low as the OP predicts, other countries can and will attract US med specialists, leaving us with the brand new problem of a specialist shortage because all of them left.

Yep, two words: ATLAS SHRUGGED.

That is the big white elephant in the room no one is talking about. No one...

Its because its been so long since any form of skilled labor has had to do anything in order to be paid their worth. The people and government have forgotten the value of US-trained medical providers, if enough current and future doctors man up and tough it out, we can actually see some form of real change...

 

[chessknt]

Obviously any country would hire a US doc, but which countries would be able to pay a competitive salary?

Probably not as competitive, but very close for less hours and more legal protections=big win. And if salaries go as low as the OP predicts, other countries can and will attract US med specialists, leaving us with the brand new problem of a specialist shortage because all of them left. And guess what, they wont be able to fill those spots with IMGs.

Yep, two words: ATLAS SHRUGGED.

That is the big white elephant in the room no one is talking about. No one...

Its because its been so long since any form of skilled labor has had to do anything in order to be paid their worth. The people and government have forgotten the value of US-trained medical providers, if enough current and future doctors man up and tough it out, we can actually see some form of real change...

 

[Pulpal Insult]

Yep, two words: ATLAS SHRUGGED.

With an open mind consider this...

"...the idea that need is a sacred idol requiring human sacrifices - that the need of some men is the knife of a guillotene hanging over others and that the extent of our ability is the extent of our danger, so that success will bring our heads down on the block, while failure will give us the right to pull the cord." This is the essence of the morality of altruism: the greater a man's achievement and the greater of society's need of him - the more vicious the treatment he receives and the closer he comes to the status of a sacrificial animal.

Businessmen- who provide us with the means of livelihood, with jobs, with labor-saving devices, with modern comforts, with an ever-rising standard of living - are the men most immediately and urgently needed by society. They have been the first victims, the hated, smeared, denounced, exploited scapegoats of the mystic-altruist-collectivist axis. Doctors come next; it is precisely because their services are so crucially important and so desperately needed that the doctors are now the targets of the altruists' attack, on a world-wide scale."

Ayn Rand 1964 speech commenting on Atlas Shrugged. (Italics mine)