Just another ... school list!

[JustForPretend]

Hi folks: I would really appreciate any guidance that people have about MD/PhD selectiveness and where I stand. According to the stickied post, I'm "Excellent" in MCAT score, and "Good" in GPA and research (four continuous years? really??).

Numbers:
3.77 GPA @ Ivy; 3.70 science
Upward trend (first three semesters: 3.3, 3.5, 3.7; rest: 3.90)
38Q MCAT (13/13/12V)

Research:
Two "summer experiences" after freshman and sophomore years
Major research experience from start of junior year through end of senior year (~20 months); 2nd author publication
Doing research now (since January -- I'm two years out of school now)

Activities:
3 years volunteering around patients
Captain of club athletic team
Teaching assistant
etc...

Current list, all MD/PhD (20 ... whyyyy??!?):
Washington
Stanford
Harvard
Michigan
University of Washington
Hopkins
Dartmouth
UCLA
Penn
Case Western
Emory
U Chicago
Yale
UCSF
Vanderbilt
Wash University St. Louis
Duke
UCSD
UC Denver
UNC

Enough mid-level schools? Too ambitious? I would love to hear what people's experiences have been.

Thanks very much!

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[PfNO22]

You can drop the schools that are just there for "safety." You are a top applicant. Don't apply to a school you wouldn't go to if you got in elsewhere. I think unless you can't interview normally or paid no attention to your essays, that you will get in. Make it somewhere you want to go. Your list looks scatter-shot. It doesn't seem like you spent any time thinking about where you want to go. And 20 secondaries is too much.

Quantitative:
Pitt
USC
Minnesota twin cities
Columbia
U Illinois Chicago




Stanford, UCSF do not want PhD students away from the bench.


How did you pick your schools? Did you spend time on your essay? How much time can you devote to your secondaries, given that most of them will arrive at exactly the same time and you should turn them around in two weeks...

 

[JustForPretend]

How did you pick your schools? Did you spend time on your essay? How much time can you devote to your secondaries, given that most of them will arrive at exactly the same time and you should turn them around in two weeks...

Great feedback, thanks. In truth, this list is a little scattershot. There are a number of places on there that I have done a lot of research on, and feel like I could name a number of faculty I would love to work with.

... and, because I'm not totally confident I'll get in there, there are a handful that are added with less thought.

I spent a lot of time on the essays and had them pretty extensively reviewed. I like to think that they are good.

 

[JustForPretend]

Stanford, UCSF do not want PhD students away from the bench.

Out of curiousity, what's the source of this? Stanford in particular has a number of professors doing bioinformatics work, and I know that at least one specifically welcomes MD/PhD:

http://www-helix.stanford.edu/people/altman/bioinformatics.html#five

Again, thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it.

 

[tortuga87]

If you want to do bioinformatics (what i work in), you should apply to the best schools in the field which are ones that have national library of medicine funding:

http://hsc-sandia.health.unm.edu/li...dicalInformaticsFellowshipUpdate_20110316.pdf

pg. 8 and beyond

 

[JustForPretend]

That is a fantastic resource. I really appreciate it. At the risk of sounding like I don't understand this field, it is really tough to know what programs are strong! I know the literature of the field that I personally work in now, but that only gives me a handful of places where I know I want to apply, and going through every prof at every school is a huge task.

...so, thanks!

 

[geeyouknit]

You can drop the schools that are just there for "safety." You are a top applicant. Don't apply to a school you wouldn't go to if you got in elsewhere. I think unless you can't interview normally or paid no attention to your essays, that you will get in. Make it somewhere you want to go. Your list looks scatter-shot. It doesn't seem like you spent any time thinking about where you want to go. And 20 secondaries is too much.

Pardon my ignorance, but except for UC Denver and Vandy, I don't see ANY safety schools on that list. Def agree that only apply to ones you want to go to, but from my limited knowledge, I think you need to add a few more mid-tier schools, and take out some of the top programs you might not be that interested in.

 

[Choculitis]

Pardon my ignorance, but except for UC Denver and Vandy, I don't see ANY safety schools on that list. Def agree that only apply to ones you want to go to, but from my limited knowledge, I think you need to add a few more mid-tier schools, and take out some of the top programs you might not be that interested in.

I don't see why he'd need more safeties. As long as he interviews fine, I can't imagine him not getting in to at least one out of those 20 schools.

 

[PfNO22]

I think you need to add a few more mid-tier schools, and take out some of the top programs you might not be that interested in.

No.

 

[JustForPretend]

I just have no way of knowing. With MD programs, I feel like I can look at the MSAR and get some kind of idea for how selective it is, but I just have no way of knowing how I stack up against other MD/PhD applicants.

I'm probably going to put in a few mid-tier places. I can always back out of interviews if I get interviews everywhere else. It's frustrating having very little idea where I stand!

 

[Choculitis]

I just have no way of knowing. With MD programs, I feel like I can look at the MSAR and get some kind of idea for how selective it is, but I just have no way of knowing how I stack up against other MD/PhD applicants.

I'm probably going to put in a few mid-tier places. I can always back out of interviews if I get interviews everywhere else. It's frustrating having very little idea where I stand!

I don't think MD/PhD is that much different than MD. They still want to see a lot of the same things (grades, MCAT, ECs, motivation). The only big different is the research requirement. You can get an idea of where you stand wrt numbers by looking at their websites.

 

[PfNO22]

I don't think MD/PhD is that much different than MD. They still want to see a lot of the same things (grades, MCAT, ECs, motivation). The only big different is the research requirement. You can get an idea of where you stand wrt numbers by looking at their websites.

MD-PhD applicants are in the upper quartile of MD applicants.

 

[Choculitis]

MD-PhD applicants are in the upper quartile of MD applicants.

And what is that based on? The schools I've looked at list pretty similar numbers for MD/PhD and MD-only.

E.g. according to the US News rankings, Penn has a ~36 avg, which is the same given on their MSTP site.

JHU has a ~36 average, and had a 37 for MSTP last year.

UCSF: 34.5 avg, 36 MSTP

Cornell: ~35 avg, 35.5. MSTP

etc

 

[PfNO22]

And what is that based on? The schools I've looked at list pretty similar numbers for MD/PhD and MD-only.

E.g. according to the US News rankings, Penn has a ~36 avg, which is the same given on their MSTP site.

JHU has a ~36 average, and had a 37 for MSTP last year.

UCSF: 34.5 avg, 36 MSTP

Cornell: ~35 avg, 35.5. MSTP

etc

MD-PhD matriculant data from https://www.aamc.org/download/161878/data/table45-mdphd-mcatgpa-2010.pdf.pdf

MD only matriculant data from https://www.aamc.org/download/161690/data/table17-facts2010mcatgpa99-10-web.pdf.pdf

So, maybe it's not fair, but from the data of matriculants, the MD-PhD total MCAT mean of 34.5 is in the 20th percentile for the MD-only matriculants and th 3.76 GPA is in the 36th percentile.

That is for pooled matriculants.

It's less clear for applicants, where the MD-PhD mean for GPA and MCAT is at the 40th and 29th percentile of MD-only applicants, respectively.

Like I said, maybe this is unfair, but overall MD-PhD applicants and matriculants are better than MD-only applicants and matriculants.


By school is more difficult to show without stats, but show me MD-PhD scores lower than MD only...

 

[Choculitis]

Like I said, maybe this is unfair, but overall MD-PhD applicants and matriculants are better than MD-only applicants and matriculants.

By school is more difficult to show without stats, but show me MD-PhD scores lower than MD only...

Agreed. But for the most part, MD/PhD programs are at the top half of schools, which already have better than average applicants.

Regardless, my point to the OP was that by looking at admission stats you can get an idea of where you stand for MD/PhD. If a school's average is 36/3.8 and you have a 40/3.9, then it's safe to assume you have a decent shot at that school, provided the rest of your application is solid. Sure, there is slightly different admission criteria, and the average applicant may be a little stronger, but for virtually every MD/PhD that I've looked at you still need to get accepted to the med school.

 

[PfNO22]

Agreed. But for the most part, MD/PhD programs are at the top half of schools, which already have better than average applicants.

Regardless, my point to the OP was that by looking at admission stats you can get an idea of where you stand for MD/PhD. If a school's average is 36/3.8 and you have a 40/3.9, then it's safe to assume you have a decent shot at that school, provided the rest of your application is solid. Sure, there is slightly different admission criteria, and the average applicant may be a little stronger, but for virtually every MD/PhD that I've looked at you still need to get accepted to the med school.

 

[tttttc]

Pardon my ignorance, but except for UC Denver and Vandy, I don't see ANY safety schools on that list. Def agree that only apply to ones you want to go to, but from my limited knowledge, I think you need to add a few more mid-tier schools, and take out some of the top programs you might not be that interested in.

Agree. 38 MCAT, 3.7 GPA, no first-authored paper is really average for those top schools. However, the good thing is that your stat falls in the right range, so the rest really depends on how well you sell yourself. Don't get me wrong I am not saying you shouldn't apply to the top schools. Just be prepared that the outcome may differ from your expectation. And there is NO safety schools. Admission process is hardly predictable. You may get into the top schools and not even offered an interview at your "safety schools". Besides, Vanderbilt should not be considered a safety school.

 

[JustForPretend]

38 MCAT, 3.7 GPA, no first-authored paper is really average for those top schools.

That's how I feel. I have updated my list a little. It now includes most of the top 15 schools, plus a few in the 20-30 range (Case, Emory, Wisconsin), and a few in the 30-40 range (Dartmouth, Oregon, Denver)

Does that seem more balanced to people?

Thanks to everyone who has weighed in so far.

 

[geeyouknit]

That's how I feel. I have updated my list a little. It now includes most of the top 15 schools, plus a few in the 20-30 range (Case, Emory, Wisconsin), and a few in the 30-40 range (Dartmouth, Oregon, Denver)

Does that seem more balanced to people?

Thanks to everyone who has weighed in so far.

Just want to point out, even if its "average", 38 is a fantastic mcat score. Good job on it. The range looks better, wish you the best of luck. Your success will give me hope.