Just how much better are your chances if you apply URM? Example...

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FlowRate said:
Although that sounds close, I would liken it to more of a +10% chance of acceptance, however that manifests itself in terms of GPA/MCAT/ECs/what-have-you.



Legally, they HAVE to let you apply as a disadvantaged student REGARDLESS of your race. HOWEVER, it would be considered disingenuous if you did not come from a truly disadvantaged background (if you are white or asian, even though it's not supposed to be about race).
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Why would it be against the law for them to not allow a clearly Caucasian person apply as an African American or Hispanic? (I believe you but I just want to know)
 
grindtime1 said:
Why would it be against the law for them to not allow a clearly Caucasian person apply as an African American or Hispanic? (I believe you but I just want to know)
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There's a slight distinction. I said disadvantaged, which, if I remember correctly, is what they now ask you on AMCAS. They can't tell you that you are not disadvantaged because you are not Black (for example). That would be discriminatory/racist. This was due to the Affirmative Action litigation of a decade? ago.
 
grindtime1 said:
What are you talking about?

I got that from THIS forum when someone posted that his friend applied as a URM even though he was not (and got in).

That's why I was wondering if something like this was common or not.
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Try it and tell us. I actually want to know. First person evidence.

And I think its fine whatever you declare yourself as, because if I do not remember wrongly, on the AMCAS it specifically says "self-declaration"

and heck, you can feel like anyone you wanna be.
 
FlowRate said:
There's a slight distinction. I said disadvantaged, which, if I remember correctly, is what they now ask you on AMCAS. They can't tell you that you are not disadvantaged because you are not Black (for example). That would be discriminatory/racist. This was due to the Affirmative Action litigation of a decade? ago.
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So they changed it now?

They changed it from URM to disadvantaged?

If that is the case, what proof do they need that you are disadvantaged? Or can you just apply as whatever you want and they can't do a thing about it?
 
grindtime1 said:
How is the white applicant not stellar?

Are you telling me a 3.8/36 + months of volunteering/shadowing + 2 years of research is BELOW AVERAGE for a top 20 medical school?
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I'm going to submit to you a possibility. Perhaps credentials like those in the quote don't mean someone is qualified to be accepted into a school (urm or not). I know for some people on here that statement is heresy, but if this was enough to get someone in at a top 20 school then there'd be no need for an interview or PS or secondaries, and all 50,000 + applicants with this would get in.

It seems like people are assuming their stats qualify them. Stats are a large part, but it is just NOT the whole thing.

Also interviews can be a great equalizer. Just b/c someone gets interviews doesn't mean they get in. If an applicant (urm or not) who's stats are what might be considered mediocre, is not stellar and on-point in their interview, then I bet you they're not getting in. It's likely that the urms getting into top schools are the best of the best even if that isn't explicitly obvious on paper.

Sure, I'm speculating, but so are a lot of you. Quoting the msar statistics or other data on MCATs and GPAs doesn't prove that urms in general are unqualified or less qualified, just that on average urms have lower MCATs or GPAs. (This is why premeds need to do research, to learn how to analyze data and draw proper conclusions from it. 🙂)

(I am a urm, it seems people need to know that tid bit before they can decide if my opinion is relevant)
 
grindtime1 said:
So they changed it now?

They changed it from URM to disadvantaged?

If that is the case, what proof do they need that you are disadvantaged? Or can you just apply as whatever you want and they can't do a thing about it?
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As mentioned by bannie, it's self-declared. Think honor system. But I think (and hope) it'll be pretty evident to any adcomm whether or not you're lying.
 
grindtime1 said:
Hey guys, good debate and all but we're not here to argue about whether or not it's fair for non-URM applicants.

Exactly what would a URM have to do to get into a top 20 school?

Would he need 2 years of research or just 1?

How about GPA and MCAT? Would a few MCAT points below the school's median give him a good shot? Or would he have to be at its average?

I know some people are going to say "there's no way to know how much it helps" but that can't be true.

Somebody has to know.
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Anyone who "knows" is just speculating. Like I said, if you want a good shot at a school, aim to have numbers that match their averages.

grindtime1 said:
Do you think a 3.7/36 URM with 12 months of clinical volunteering, 1 year of research, 1 year of TAing, and 5 months of physician shadowing would be a lock to get into a top 20 school?

Let's say this school has a median GPA of 3.9 and MCAT of 35.

What are your thoughts?
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No one is a lock for any school.
 
neuro raqs said:
It seems like people are assuming their stats qualify them. Stats are a large part, but it is just NOT the whole thing.

Also interviews can be a great equalizer. Just b/c someone gets interviews doesn't mean they get in. If an applicant (urm or not) who's stats are what might be considered mediocre, is not stellar and on-point in their interview, then I bet you they're not getting in. It's likely that the urms getting into top schools are the best of the best even if that isn't explicitly obvious on paper.
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who you are is important and everything but you show who you are by getting an interview. It's a bit hard to swallow the fact that nonURMs have to get an interview by their stats but URMs already have their foot in the door (not to say that their stats are unimportant).
nonURMs have to get the opportunity for an interview through their hard earned GPA and MCAT score and it seems as though URMs who perform at a lower level, URMs with low GPA/MCAT don't have to prove themselves to the same extent.

Instead of typing out my take on academic performance all over again...I'll just quote myself



If a med school has an average MCAT of 35+ the likelihood of them even looking at a nURM with a score of 30 is slim.
The basis for acceptance is academics, who you are and what you've done is subsequent to that. The way you perform on a standardized exam shows adcoms where an applicant is relative to his or her peers.

At an institution where 35 is the average, any applicant who has gotten a 30 should be heavily scrutinized because they have performed worse than the average matriculant.

MCAT and GPA are reflections of the character of an applicant. How well they have understood the material, performed in classes, prepared for the exam, how much experience they have had volunteering, and in the medical field all show their dedication to the career path they have chosen.... this should be the basis for which an applicant is chosen.

When I hear Dr. King's quote: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." and I hear about URMs getting into fantastic med schools with laughable stats, I get the feeling that low performing URMs are being admitted based on perceptions of their race rather than their actual performance in school.

In my eyes, URMs who have strong stats and have shown that they can compete and exceed do deserve the "leg up" because they have proven themselves. URMs with low stats should be rejected in the same way as other sub par applicants are.
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I was told that URM get 5 extra bonus points on their MCAT and an extra .5 points on their GPA.
 
FlowRate said:
Although that sounds close, I would liken it to more of a +10% chance of acceptance, however that manifests itself in terms of GPA/MCAT/ECs/what-have-you.
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It's plus 10-15% when comparing only GPAs in the lower part of the acceptable range. It's plus 5% in the higher part of the ranges (3.6+). In looking at the MCAT alone it's plus 25-35% below a 30.



(I'm using percentage points, not actual percent).

ezsanche said:
I was told that URM get 5 extra bonus points on their MCAT and an extra .5 points on their GPA.
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In terms of aggregate data (chance at getting into one school) it seems that URMs get a 5 point boost on the MCAT and a variable (up to .4 or so) boost for the GPA.


And OP I really hope you're not going to lie about your ethnicity. If you get caught lying you're screwed.
 
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anonymousername said:
who you are is important and everything but you show who you are by getting an interview. It's a bit hard to swallow the fact that nonURMs have to get an interview by their stats but URMs already have their foot in the door (not to say that their stats are unimportant).
nonURMs have to get the opportunity for an interview through their hard earned GPA and MCAT score and it seems as though URMs who perform at a lower level, URMs with low GPA/MCAT don't have to prove themselves to the same extent.

Instead of typing out my take on academic performance all over again...I'll just quote myself
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I agree that you show who you are by getting an interview, but stats alone don't say nearly enough. The AMCAS has at least one essays and secondaries have several for a reason, and both are pre-interview. They aren't having people write these things for no reason. It would be immensely easier for them to only consider two numbers and a list of activities for each applicant than 2,000 characters about the applicant's background, goals, activities, etc. In fact, these things must differentiate people much more than MCAT and GPA, b/c there are so many people with 40/4.0. MCAT and GPA are a reflection of the applicant, but only an extremely limited one.

also, urms don't already have their foot in the door, it's not like every urm who applies gets an interview. I haven't seen more than 4 at any interview (and I've seen the same people), and that was at 2, usually i'm the only one. I feel like more than 10 or so urms applied and had stats to meet the cut off.
 
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I applied the first time and I didn't select the disadvantaged option that AMCAS offers. As a result, I ended up getting 1 interview. In my second time applying, I decided to classify myself as disadvantaged and so far I got 7 interviews. 4 in state and 3 OOS. So yes I would say there is some advantage.😎
 
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there is no doubt that URM status provides a huge benefit when applying. i dont know why some people question this...

as for it being fair, thats a whole different discussion, but the advantage is undeniable.
 
does being an asian political refugee count as URM?
i don't think so?
 
Um...it's unreal how much it improves your odds.

I knew a black female who got invited to a top 10 with a 3.1 and 19 MCAT.

No this is not made up.
 
I have several huge problems with this.

1) A student should never get in because of their skin color...the best applicants should get in period. If that's all white males, so be it. If that's all african-american males so be it. Just let the best in dammit..



2) It absolutely ruins the URM's reputation in their career. URM's are questioned big time in medicine. "Oh..that guy just got in because he is black. I wonder if he's a bad doctor.."

UM...yeah how the hell do you think the URM's with 4.0/40 feel about this? They likely feel like ****, having to carry around this type of stigma.


It's racism. Thats all.
 
UAAWolf said:
I have several huge problems with this.

1) A student should never get in because of their skin color...the best applicants should get in period. If that's all white males, so be it. If that's all african-american males so be it. Just let the best in dammit..



2) It absolutely ruins the URM's reputation in their career. URM's are questioned big time in medicine. "Oh..that guy just got in because he is black. I wonder if he's a bad doctor.."

UM...yeah how the hell do you think the URM's with 4.0/40 feel about this? They likely feel like ****, having to carry around this type of stigma.


It's racism. Thats all.
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This is the problem though. The "Best" doctors aren't necessarily the doctors with 4.0/9,000 MCAT scores in their undergrad. When you start to broaden the idea of what the best may be, the area under the "best" curve tends to let in more lesser gpa/mcat applicants. It's just the way it is.
 
UAAWolf said:
I have several huge problems with this.

1) A student should never get in because of their skin color...the best applicants should get in period. If that's all white males, so be it. If that's all african-american males so be it. Just let the best in dammit..



2) It absolutely ruins the URM's reputation in their career. URM's are questioned big time in medicine. "Oh..that guy just got in because he is black. I wonder if he's a bad doctor.."

UM...yeah how the hell do you think the URM's with 4.0/40 feel about this? They likely feel like ****, having to carry around this type of stigma.


It's racism. Thats all.
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To be honest I think anyone w/ a 4.0/40 isn't worried about what other people think, they know they're the ish. lol.

(not that they'll definitely be the best doctor b/c of their numbers)
 
I say this every time this stupid debate emerges. A huge confounding variable is the large percentage of URMs that are also classified as disadvantaged. I would love to see some data on the stats of non-disadvantaged URMs and acceptance rates, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist. Furthermore, I never understood why people make such a huge deal over this. There are only ~2000 URM applicants per year. Aside from the HBCUs, most med schools have <10 per class. Since people on this thread seem to worship everything LizzyM says (I appreciate her advice too!), let me re-direct you to a few of her threads related to this topic.

Thread 1
Thread 2

Today is Thanksgiving. Be thankful for what you do have and what opportunities and support you have had to get you where you are today.
 
Bannie, the last time I checked you didn't have even one interview/no acceptances. I may be wrong. Maybe if you spent more time on your application with your 35+ MCAT and 3.6+ GPA you'll be a shoe-in for med school. Trust me, there are a gazillion "majority" applicants who have been accepted this cycle with your stats. And don't give me the bull**** about applying as an international student. I have a friend from Canada who has lower stats than yours and has been accepted to Case,Emory and Johns Hopkins.😱

Now to my main point, why are people on here so concerned with URM advantage or AA? Why don't you forget about that and work hard on your application? I'm 100% sure if you have good stats, with relevant ECs and other interesting life experiences, getting into medical school wouldn't be a problem.

Some people on SDN, feel that because they have high stats, they automatically deserve interview invites or acceptances. When did this stupidity emerge? People are more than numbers and adcoms know that for a fact. There are a lot of reasons why people apply with low stats on the GPA or MCAT side and ad coms are cognizant of that. Now if you have a good reason for that, you're going to get in.

People need to stop whining on these threads. Most of these people who complain here can't do anything about it in real life. They can't even talk about it in real life too. When I am with my caustic white and asian premed friends, I usually bring this so called "unfair advantage that URMs get" just to see how they react. Most of them don't have anything to contribute. However, on the internet, they become gangsters all of a sudden.

URMs are not taking your spots! Quit whining and stop being *******.
 
Every year around this time these fun threads seem to pop up...


but just as clarification:

1. URM designation is NOT the same as disadvantaged. You have to write an essay and explain why you feel you are disadvantaged. There is no box to check for URM and every school has their own definition / way of handling admissions

2. As fruitful as these discussions are, it's important to remember that this is ALL speculation. None of us sit on admissions committees and actually know what goes on so don't take what is being said as fact. Everyone has a story about their "friend" with a 21 that got into Harvard or whatever, but at the end of the day they are just that: stories. We might never know how the admissions process works, so just make YOURSELF as competitive as possible and stop worrying about everyone else and this URM conspiracy theory.

3. Like PinkIvy mentioned above me, keep in the mind the size of the pools you are comparing.

And lastly, someone asked about how these unqualified URMs are doing when they get into these good schools. I don't have charts and numbers, but I know my MCAT is nowhere near the average for my school, and I'm doing just fine. In fact, I'm doing excellent 😀 GPA & MCAT aren't everything, people. Happy Thanksgiving, back to studying for me.
 
archimedesxx said:
Bannie, the last time I checked you didn't have even one interview/no acceptances. I may be wrong. Maybe if you spent more time on your application with your 35+ MCAT and 3.6+ GPA you'll be a shoe-in for med school. Trust me, there are a gazillion "majority" applicants who have been accepted this cycle with your stats. And don't give me the bull**** about applying as an international student. I have a friend from Canada who has lower stats than yours and has been accepted to Case,Emory and Johns Hopkins.😱

Now to my main point, why are people on here so concerned with URM advantage or AA? Why don't you forget about that and work hard on your application? I'm 100% sure if you have good stats, with relevant ECs and other interesting life experiences, getting into medical school wouldn't be a problem.

Some people on SDN, feel that because they have high stats, they automatically deserve interview invites or acceptances. When did this stupidity emerge? People are more than numbers and adcoms know that for a fact. There are a lot of reasons why people apply with low stats on the GPA or MCAT side and ad coms are cognizant of that. Now if you have a good reason for that, you're going to get in.

People need to stop whining on these threads. Most of these people who complain here can't do anything about it in real life. They can't even talk about it in real life too. When I am with my caustic white and asian premed friends, I usually bring this so called "unfair advantage that URMs get" just to see how they react. Most of them don't have anything to contribute. However, on the internet, they become gangsters all of a sudden.

URMs are not taking your spots! Quit whining and stop being *******.
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Amen brotha. This post speaks the truth!!
 
Does anyone know if any of these lower-stat URM's ever get pre-match offers? If they can just skate into med school like some of these posts imply, then wouldn't they just pre-match after a successful interview? I'm just wondering because I have no knowledge of any URM's with low stats pre-matching.
 
archimedesxx said:
Bannie, the last time I checked you didn't have even one interview/no acceptances. I may be wrong. Maybe if you spent more time on your application with your 35+ MCAT and 3.6+ GPA you'll be a shoe-in for med school. Trust me, there are a gazillion "majority" applicants who have been accepted this cycle with your stats. And don't give me the bull**** about applying as an international student. I have a friend from Canada who has lower stats than yours and has been accepted to Case,Emory and Johns Hopkins.😱

Now to my main point, why are people on here so concerned with URM advantage or AA? Why don't you forget about that and work hard on your application? I'm 100% sure if you have good stats, with relevant ECs and other interesting life experiences, getting into medical school wouldn't be a problem.

Some people on SDN, feel that because they have high stats, they automatically deserve interview invites or acceptances. When did this stupidity emerge? People are more than numbers and adcoms know that for a fact. There are a lot of reasons why people apply with low stats on the GPA or MCAT side and ad coms are cognizant of that. Now if you have a good reason for that, you're going to get in.

People need to stop whining on these threads. Most of these people who complain here can't do anything about it in real life. They can't even talk about it in real life too. When I am with my caustic white and asian premed friends, I usually bring this so called "unfair advantage that URMs get" just to see how they react. Most of them don't have anything to contribute. However, on the internet, they become gangsters all of a sudden.

URMs are not taking your spots! Quit whining and stop being *******.
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👍 so true!

Dr Lyss said:
Every year around this time these fun threads seem to pop up...


but just as clarification:

1. URM designation is NOT the same as disadvantaged. You have to write an essay and explain why you feel you are disadvantaged. There is no box to check for URM and every school has their own definition / way of handling admissions

2. As fruitful as these discussions are, it's important to remember that this is ALL speculation. None of us sit on admissions committees and actually know what goes on so don't take what is being said as fact. Everyone has a story about their "friend" with a 21 that got into Harvard or whatever, but at the end of the day they are just that: stories. We might never know how the admissions process works, so just make YOURSELF as competitive as possible and stop worrying about everyone else and this URM conspiracy theory.

3. Like PinkIvy mentioned above me, keep in the mind the size of the pools you are comparing.

And lastly, someone asked about how these unqualified URMs are doing when they get into these good schools. I don't have charts and numbers, but I know my MCAT is nowhere near the average for my school, and I'm doing just fine. In fact, I'm doing excellent 😀 GPA & MCAT aren't everything, people. Happy Thanksgiving, back to studying for me.
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👍 Also true!
 
archimedesxx said:
Bannie, the last time I checked you didn't have even one interview/no acceptances. I may be wrong. Maybe if you spent more time on your application with your 35+ MCAT and 3.6+ GPA you'll be a shoe-in for med school. Trust me, there are a gazillion "majority" applicants who have been accepted this cycle with your stats. And don't give me the bull**** about applying as an international student. I have a friend from Canada who has lower stats than yours and has been accepted to Case,Emory and Johns Hopkins.😱

Now to my main point, why are people on here so concerned with URM advantage or AA? Why don't you forget about that and work hard on your application? I'm 100% sure if you have good stats, with relevant ECs and other interesting life experiences, getting into medical school wouldn't be a problem.

Some people on SDN, feel that because they have high stats, they automatically deserve interview invites or acceptances. When did this stupidity emerge? People are more than numbers and adcoms know that for a fact. There are a lot of reasons why people apply with low stats on the GPA or MCAT side and ad coms are cognizant of that. Now if you have a good reason for that, you're going to get in.

People need to stop whining on these threads. Most of these people who complain here can't do anything about it in real life. They can't even talk about it in real life too. When I am with my caustic white and asian premed friends, I usually bring this so called "unfair advantage that URMs get" just to see how they react. Most of them don't have anything to contribute. However, on the internet, they become gangsters all of a sudden.

URMs are not taking your spots! Quit whining and stop being *******.
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This is funny, it reminds me of that old argument of minorities stealing jobs from Americans 🙄
 
grindtime1 said:
I know this has been debated a lot, but I searched and didn't get the answer I was looking for. I understand the standards to meet are different, but I have no idea how different.

Example:

White male with a 3.8 GPA, 36 MCAT, 2 years research (no publications), 6 months volunteering, 3 months shadowing.

VS

URM with a 3.6 GPA, 34 MCAT, 1 year research (no publications), same amount of volunteering and shadowing.


Who's got the better shot at a top 20 medical school?

What would a URM need to do to get into a school whose averages are 3.9 GPA and 36 MCAT? Please answer this question at least if not the other one.
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don't know if this has been metioned, but, at a top 20 school you're comparing more along the lines of:

White male with a 3.8 GPA, 36 MCAT, 2 years research (no publications), 6 months volunteering, 3 months shadowing.

VS

URM with a 3.8 GPA, 36 MCAT, 2 year research (no publications), same amount of volunteering and shadowing.

it's somewhat insulting that the implicit assumption here on SDN is that URM = auto low stats
 
People need to stop using urm applicants as an excuse for their failures. If you deserve to get into medical school, you will regardless of what or who you are. Work on your application and make it the strongest that you can. That is all you can and should do.
 
UAAWolf said:
Um...it's unreal how much it improves your odds.

I knew a black female who got invited to a top 10 with a 3.1 and 19 MCAT.

No this is not made up.
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First of all, I have a really hard time believing this. Second, even if it is true, you don't know the rest of her application. Third, an invite does not equal an acceptance.
 
I've also noticed recently how many poor White/Asian applicants try to turn this into a big deal. I know a White guy with a really crappy GPA/MCAT and mediocre EC's blame the fact that he was not an URM as the sole reason as to why he was not accepted to medical school. Since I'm not an URM myself, he feels safe in explaining to me everyday how he would have gotten in if his skin color was black. And I'm thinking to myself, but what about your poor GPA? your poor MCAT? your poor EC's? and the fact that you're a tool? I'm sure all those are MUCH better reasons as to why you were not accepted.

So yeah, the people who most often complain about the "advantage" URM's have are often very poor applicants themselves.
 
lol he probably would have gotten in somewhere. thats just how it is. other forums have accepted the fact that urm helps greatly...i dont know why studentdoctor lags behind.
 
Quick question. Am I correct in saying that med school applications have no URM box to check off? Is it that they have a section to mark whether you think you were disadvantaged? So both John Smith and José Rodriguez can mark that they are disadvantaged because John grew up in a working poor single parent family, without access to proper healthcare, ect while José had non-english speaking immigrant parents who both only received a 3rd and 5th grade education, and the family only had a roof over his head thanks to government aid, ect?

Does ethnicity/race play a part in your paperwork or is it your class (poor, working poor, lower working, upper working, lower middle, upper middle, upper)?

edit- is this the type of thing they look at? http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=681944
 
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archimedesxx said:
Bannie, the last time I checked you didn't have even one interview/no acceptances. I may be wrong. Maybe if you spent more time on your application with your 35+ MCAT and 3.6+ GPA you'll be a shoe-in for med school. Trust me, there are a gazillion "majority" applicants who have been accepted this cycle with your stats. And don't give me the bull**** about applying as an international student. I have a friend from Canada who has lower stats than yours and has been accepted to Case,Emory and Johns Hopkins.😱

Now to my main point, why are people on here so concerned with URM advantage or AA? Why don't you forget about that and work hard on your application? I'm 100% sure if you have good stats, with relevant ECs and other interesting life experiences, getting into medical school wouldn't be a problem.

Some people on SDN, feel that because they have high stats, they automatically deserve interview invites or acceptances. When did this stupidity emerge? People are more than numbers and adcoms know that for a fact. There are a lot of reasons why people apply with low stats on the GPA or MCAT side and ad coms are cognizant of that. Now if you have a good reason for that, you're going to get in.

People need to stop whining on these threads. Most of these people who complain here can't do anything about it in real life. They can't even talk about it in real life too. When I am with my caustic white and asian premed friends, I usually bring this so called "unfair advantage that URMs get" just to see how they react. Most of them don't have anything to contribute. However, on the internet, they become gangsters all of a sudden.

URMs are not taking your spots! Quit whining and stop being *******.
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Why are you getting all personal with me here?🙄

1) "Last time I checked"... why are you stalking me? How many times have you checked? Why even bother? I know you have a great application, but please mind your own business.

2) Nobody on this thread was complaining that URM were taking spots away. We were having a proper discussion till you decided to pop by. If you got something, quote me, I'll be glad to share more of my views with you.

3) Nobody complained about being an international student. The people I've seen that use the excuse are people like you who keep going on and on about how difficult it is to get into med school as an international, and then use that very same point to judge and make such nationalistic comments. (reminds me of a immigration thread earlier)

4) I am not Canadian. FACT= Canadians are looked at more positively at some schools.

5) I can't spend "more time" with my application. Are you spending "more time" with yours? At least I am contributing in a positive manner instead of making condescending statements like you.

The rest of your thread is not directed at me so I have nothing to respond to. But I think you should calm down. Like I said before, nobody on this thread is suggesting that URMs are stealing spots. You have a great application, no need to resort to verbal accusations to make yourself feel better eh?
 
ReptarBar said:
lol he probably would have gotten in somewhere. thats just how it is. other forums have accepted the fact that urm helps greatly...i dont know why studentdoctor lags behind.
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No one is disputing the fact that it helps. But the point is no one knows how much it helps, or the circumstances in which it helps or doesn't help, or the whole picture of these applicants who are getting in with lower stats.

Work hard, do your best, and stop worrying about other people. If you want to get into a particular school, be sure your numbers match their averages, no matter your race.
 
AirmanCatalyst said:
Quick question. Am I correct in saying that med school applications have no URM box to check off? Is it that they have a section to mark whether you think you were disadvantaged? So both John Smith and José Rodriguez can mark that they are disadvantaged because John grew up in a working poor single parent family, without access to proper healthcare, ect while José had non-english speaking immigrant parents who both only received a 3rd and 5th grade education, and the family only had a roof over his head thanks to government aid, ect?

Does ethnicity/race play a part in your paperwork or is it your class (poor, working poor, lower working, upper working, lower middle, upper middle, upper)?

edit- is this the type of thing they look at? http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=681944
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There is no "URM box," but there are a series of questions asking you to identify with a particular ethnicity.

Disadvantaged status is different and separate; there is a box to check off and an additional essay to write.

In both cases schools decide what to do with the information.
 
The URM thing has been done and done again, and let's face it, none of us really know anything about how it plays into medical school admissions. And it's not something we can change even if people think it's not fair.

It's fine to discuss, but let's please stop fighting. Kthx.
 
strummin said:
If you think this is racism, you have no idea what racism is.
Click to expand...

Any bias (negative OR positive) towards someone SOLELY based on race/skin color is racism my friend.

If that word is too ugly for you I'm sorry, but it's still a form of racism.
 
strummin said:
I've also noticed recently how many poor White/Asian applicants try to turn this into a big deal. I know a White guy with a really crappy GPA/MCAT and mediocre EC's blame the fact that he was not an URM as the sole reason as to why he was not accepted to medical school. Since I'm not an URM myself, he feels safe in explaining to me everyday how he would have gotten in if his skin color was black. And I'm thinking to myself, but what about your poor GPA? your poor MCAT? your poor EC's? and the fact that you're a tool? I'm sure all those are MUCH better reasons as to why you were not accepted.

So yeah, the people who most often complain about the "advantage" URM's have are often very poor applicants themselves.
Click to expand...

1) Your white guy friend should not blame not getting in on the fact he is not URM. HOWEVER- he has a point that he would have likely gotten in if he were a URM....but I agree everyone should work their hardest. Believe me...I know several URM's who even told me "Dude I don't have to work as hard cause I'm URM!" WOw great attitude...

2) URM's are often poor- but what about whites/asians who are poor as well? Last time I checked...a wealthy black female would have a much better chance at admissions than a poor white male. How is this fair?


Regardless. I agree with most of you that you can't do much. Almost every single minority I know is offended by affirmative action since it's essentially the gov't telling them "You aren't as good as other races..so we'll just lower the bar for you!"

I even know some URM's who declined awards because they were offended that they won based on skin color. Not all URM's (many don't) support affirmative action guys.
 
white people should really not talk about racism. seriously. stop.
 
UAAWolf said:
2) URM's are often poor- but what about whites/asians who are poor as well? Last time I checked...a wealthy black female would have a much better chance at admissions than a poor white male. How is this fair?
Click to expand...
you know that URM>disadvantaged how?

there are more practicing white docs than black docs. how is this fair?!? all this whining about fair and unfair makes my head hurt from its similarity to elementary school.
 
UAAWolf said:
You honestly don't think there is any racism against whites...?
Click to expand...
...christ...


edit: can you provide some examples then? some CLEAR (i.e. not up for debate like admissions standards) systematic injustice?
 
As for the original question, strictly by numbers using the link a white student with a 3.8 and 38 MCAT (93% chance) has the same chance to get into ANY medical school as an URM with a 3.6 and a 36 MCAT (92% chance). This would naturally vary by school but gives an overall picture.
 
My opinion: Ethnicity is one thing, socioeconomic background is completely another. But the term is Under Represented in Medicine, so I think admissions committees do a good job of sticking with that definition. It's too bad socioeconomic factors cannot play a part as well, if we are going to have such a system in place. With that being said, THIS IS the system in place and there's nothing we can do about it except do the best for ourselves.

I usually don't speak out on this issue because the only thing I can do is take care of my own grades, app and interviews and not worry about the next guy... but while going through this application process, I have found myself ashamed / shaking my head when I see a minority doctor and think to myself "that guy had it easier getting in to med school and getting this residency". I especially felt this way after seeing a good friend of mine get an interview to a top 5 school with significantly lower numbers whereas I feel my application would barely have gotten glanced at. I don't agree with this line of thinking... minority or not, getting acceptance into medical school, residency and onwards are great accomplishments. I don't consider myself one bit racist, and I'm not a condescending person either... but either my perception of the system is flawed, or the system is flawed.

I think the reason I'm having a problem grasping the URM concept is that I don't understand why they are so highly valued in medical school. I'm not seeing the other side of the coin.
 
If you look it up, a lower proportion of URMs are accepted than their white counterparts. So if you look at it that way, being a URM hurts your chances.
 
As much as I feel d!cked about not having as many doors open due to my non-URM status, I feel equally as much disgust for the over-arching perception of "he/she got this position handed to them because of their URM status".

Fail.
 
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