Just remember when you're bashing USC...

[Jyaki]

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...you may be tying your own noose around your neck. Currently, there are MANY patients that come to USC for dental treatment on the notion that USC trains some of the best clinicians. A legacy that was established during the gold foil era but the idea still continues to this very day. There are patients that travel from San Diego just to be treated at USC. There are private dentists that capitalize on this USC legacy and make it a point to advertise themselves as "USC Graduates".

I understand that there are many issues that need to be addressed and improved in USC. However, I believe these issues should be discussed within USC and public venting should be kept to a minimum. It's easy to become engrossed in the present situation, but step-back, take a second and view the consequences that may transpire from these actions: 1). If patient population is a problem now, what will happen if patient's get wind that USC produces horrible clinicians? 2). When applying for associate positions, if given a choice, why would a dentist hire a USC grad over another graduate? 3). People that want to specialize....it's already competitive enough, why disadvantage yourself by discrediting your own school? Admissions may unconsciously conclude that "horrible school = you're less competent then students applying from good schools".

I'm glad to see that USC students are taking action to encourage change. However, I believe that venting on these forums and flooding it with the same negative expressions over and over will only come back to haunt you/me/all alumni in the future.

 

[Dental916]

they're helping the future students who have a choice between usc and another school, to choose the other school.

it won't hurt chances of specializing by going to usc.

public won't know anything or care...they're always going to be usc yay...football!

getting a job after graduating hardly matters on what school you went to. if you have people skills and can show potential....you're in.

 

[armorshell]

...you may be tying your own noose around your neck. Currently, there are MANY patients that come to USC for dental treatment on the notion that USC trains some of the best clinicians. A legacy that was established during the gold foil era but the idea still continues to this very day. There are patients that travel from San Diego just to be treated at USC. There are private dentists that capitalize on this USC legacy and make it a point to advertise themselves as "USC Graduates".

I understand that there are many issues that need to be addressed and improved in USC. However, I believe these issues should be discussed within USC and public venting should be kept to a minimum. It's easy to become engrossed in the present situation, but step-back, take a second and view the consequences that may transpire from these actions: 1). If patient population is a problem now, what will happen if patient's get wind that USC produces horrible clinicians? 2). When applying for associate positions, if given a choice, why would a dentist hire a USC grad over another graduate? 3). People that want to specialize....it's already competitive enough, why disadvantage yourself by discrediting your own school? Admissions may unconsciously conclude that "horrible school = you're less competent then students applying from good schools".

I'm glad to see that USC students are taking action to encourage change. However, I believe that venting on these forums and flooding it with the same negative expressions over and over will only come back to haunt you/me/all alumni in the future.

So you're advocating that the unhappy students sweep the skeletons back into the closet and try their best to make sure no one finds out about it?! AND trying to convince them to do it because it may thin out their wallets?!?

That sounds a little scary to me. If a student of any program feels they're being treated unfairly, being misrepresented or ignored, it's their responsibility to air their concerns.

Asking these students to mislead pre-dents into accepting (what they believe to be) an inferior, hostile program seems to me to be incredibly dishonest.

 

[TypoDont]

So you're advocating that the unhappy students sweep the skeletons back into the closet and try their best to make sure no one finds out about it?! AND trying to convince them to do it because it may thin out their wallets?!?

That sounds a little scary to me. If a student of any program feels they're being treated unfairly, being misrepresented or ignored, it's their responsibility to air their concerns.

Asking these students to mislead pre-dents into accepting (what they believe to be) an inferior, hostile program seems to me to be incredibly dishonest.

This is very true; I think warning the Pre-dents about the hardships and struggles that will be found at SC should be told; we are the "big brothers," we have experienced what is like to be at SC; now, it is up to us to prevent our little brothers, the predents, to make the mistakes we have made. Armorshell, the OP is perhaps the 1 percentile of students that have this ideology. Believe me, most of the 2008's and 2009's are fighting hard for a change and believe that the truth about the frustrations at school should be made public. We are not hiding anything anymore!!

 

[OceanBlue]

Open discussion👍

 

[NVDental]

This website is a forum for medical professional students, for our peers, and I believe that full disclosure is an absolute must when applicants are considering dental schools. We may not always get the most accurate picture of dental school during the interview process, perhaps because the administration doesn't really know what it is like, or because they choose to focus on their assests rather than their deficiencies. Going to USC is a huge financial investment and with it comes its share of risk. Student's have a right to know what type of education they are getting and what type of return they are getting on their investment. I feel that it would be unethical for me to try to "sugar coat" what school and the clinic are like. There are requests by other students for USCSD students not to "badmouth" their own school, on this website, however I believe that other students have a right to know both the good and the bad. I have made posts that highlight some of the benefits of USC as well as some of the deficiencies. Lets admit our faults and celebrate our virtures, and not just be another "Kool-aid" drinker. USCSD is still producing great clinicians, despite the low graduation percentage (which by the way is not due to our lack of skill)

 

[tooth decay]

Though I am just a predent (who was accepted to USC, but declined), one observation that is quite disturbing is the unusual amount of dissatisfaction there seems to be within the USCSD student body. Even if you factor in the students who enjoy their USC training, there is no other school mentioned so frequently in so many SDN threads that is devoted to negative student experiences and perceptions. Even NYUSD which does get some bad press here at SDN seems to be a very distant second in terms of "bashing" by their own applicants/students.

 

[LIer2010]

I remember applying to and interviewing at USC (for the class of 2010). My impression at the time was that USC was a fine school, with good clinical reputation (at least in S. Cali). The only reason I didn't go there was because of its high tuition.

Almost everyone complains about their dental program while going through it, since no program is perfect, and most of the time it's freakin hard, and for some, even traumatic. However, the problems being surfaced from USC seem to be a bit unique in nature. From what I gather, even the biggest dental schools (e.g. NYU) don't have ~18% on-time graduation rate. That is a systematic administrative problem, a problem that has serious financial consequences for its students. USC already has one of the highest tuition in the country, and compounding that by forcing students to pay extra (and lose potential income) while staying beyond to finish requirements is simply unacceptable from a student's perspective.

With my presumptions, I think the extremely low on-time graduation rate could be due to the combination of few of the following:

- high number of clinical requirements. However, it can be argued that this is what allows USC to produce competent dentists.
- insufficient number of chairs at the clinic in comparison to the number of students. Even if there is a huge patient pool (and I think downtown LA would have that), if there aren't enough chairs, who can treat them?
- insufficient number of professors to sign off things on time - or excessive amount of administrative red-tape in fulfilling requirements.
- lack of proactive measures by students and/or administration to make sure that students finish their requirements on-time (i.e. laziness). However, I have difficulty believing that students wouldn't do anything in order to graduate on-time, especially since it has a huge financial consequences for them.

In a sense, a prospective student when choosing a dental school is a consumer. He/she is looking for the school that will best provide him/her with the opportunity to be a competent and financially successful dentist. If a dental school doesn't allow sufficient opportunities for hardworking and competent (i.e. passed board exams) students to graduate on-time, then the school doesn't deserve further business from prospective students.

I also think that the school is liable to provide adequate compensation to its current students, since it took tuition from them while not providing adequate education (i.e. opportunities in clinic) during that time. Otherwise, at least in the spirit, the school is guilty of fraud.

Best of luck to the current students at USC.

 

[ddstothecor]

Very well put Lier. 👍

 

[booshwa]

...you may be tying your own noose around your neck. Currently, there are MANY patients that come to USC for dental treatment on the notion that USC trains some of the best clinicians. A legacy that was established during the gold foil era but the idea still continues to this very day. There are patients that travel from San Diego just to be treated at USC. There are private dentists that capitalize on this USC legacy and make it a point to advertise themselves as "USC Graduates".

I understand that there are many issues that need to be addressed and improved in USC. However, I believe these issues should be discussed within USC and public venting should be kept to a minimum. It's easy to become engrossed in the present situation, but step-back, take a second and view the consequences that may transpire from these actions: 1). If patient population is a problem now, what will happen if patient's get wind that USC produces horrible clinicians? 2). When applying for associate positions, if given a choice, why would a dentist hire a USC grad over another graduate? 3). People that want to specialize....it's already competitive enough, why disadvantage yourself by discrediting your own school? Admissions may unconsciously conclude that "horrible school = you're less competent then students applying from good schools".

I'm glad to see that USC students are taking action to encourage change. However, I believe that venting on these forums and flooding it with the same negative expressions over and over will only come back to haunt you/me/all alumni in the future.

As a 2007 USC Dental Student I must clarify that I don't think that it as ever been an issue of producing horrible clinicians. At least at USC, graduation rates do not correspond with being a good or bad clinician. I would consider myself to be a good clinician (who of course has an infinite amount of info to learn), and know many others who are in the same category. And yes there are some bad clinicians here as well, but not any more than other schools (at least I hope 🙄 )