- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
- Messages
- 838
- Reaction score
- 4
Deleted
Last edited:
Just took my DATs and... I'm scared!
- Thread starter CedarZ4
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2008
- Messages
- 1,079
- Reaction score
- 4
No, your DAT scores and your GPA are below average (in terms of acceptance stats). Unless you're an underrepresented minority, I would definitely retake the DAT and look into doing a post-bacc (since your sGPA is pretty much a 3.0, and your DATs aren't at least a 19/20).
Also, apply to more schools.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2009
- Messages
- 5,650
- Reaction score
- 169
Everyone has a chance... a better question is "how much of a chance?"
statistically speaking, odds are significantly against you 🙁
Agreed with previous posters. Both your GPA and DAT scores are below average. If you want to hedge your bet and try to get in this year, I would definitely apply to more schools, like 15+ (especially private schools).
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
- Messages
- 838
- Reaction score
- 4
Not SDN average! According to the ADEA Official Guide 2011 version, there are many schools that have my scores as average entering Fall 2010.
With that said, I do plan on retaking the DATs, since I took it today, earliest I can take it would be early September. Since I'd have already have my application in, along with scores, say I got a 20/21 range but my scores would be coming in late, would that put me at a large disadvantage?
From what I've been reading on SDN, there are a lot of people who don't even apply until September/October?
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
- Messages
- 838
- Reaction score
- 4
I have a list of 28 schools that I sent to my pre-health advisor. He told me I was crazy.
Considering how my scores are not as competitive, would you recommend applying to all 28 of them?!
That's a lot of money
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2007
- Messages
- 608
- Reaction score
- 1
Which schools? The only schools I have ever seen below a3.4 gpa are howard and meharry.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2011
- Messages
- 158
- Reaction score
- 0
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't think "many" schools have an acceptance average of 17/18/19 with a 3.08 sci gpa. If anything, that's likely the low end of each spectrum at schools; and even then, they're probably URMs.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
- Messages
- 838
- Reaction score
- 4
I have the book right in front of me....
AA/PAT/cGPA/sGPA
Arizona: 17.86/18.63/3.31/3.16
USC : 19/19/3.25/3.2
Western : 18.5/19.07/3.41/3.3
Kentucky : 18/14/3.43/3.29
BU : 19/19/3.38/3.29
None of them are historically black schools, and these are their average which means half of the people get in with lower scores...
Granted, 3.08 is lower than say, 3.16 or 3.3, but I feel like that isn't even that large of a difference that something a good interview or strong letters of recommendations can't compensate for?
So I guess the question now is, will I get any interviews?
Since you already applied and early, which is great, I would definitely apply to more schools. 28 may be excessive but maybe 20. Anything is possible. Do you have good lor's? experience? Lot's of people take their DAT in September. Just keep studying🙂 Good luck!
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2007
- Messages
- 608
- Reaction score
- 1
I don't want to say you're wrong, but your book isn't right.
http://www.dentalstudentbooks.com/dental_school_statistics.html
http://www.dentalstudentbooks.com/dental_school_statistics.html
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2008
- Messages
- 1,211
- Reaction score
- 8
THE DATA that you have might be very old.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
- Messages
- 838
- Reaction score
- 4
I guess DentalStudentBooks.com has more reliable information than statistics taken straight out of the ADEA 2011 guide
Don't mean to be rude by the way, just that I'm hoping my $45 spent on this book is giving me at least accurate information!
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
- Messages
- 838
- Reaction score
- 4
Says on the top "Table 3-4. Characteristics of the class entering fall 2010 by dental school"
2011 version of the ADEA book. I'm not saying you guys are wrong or that I'm right, just that again, I'd like to hope that the information provided by the ADEA is accurate, especially since I had to pay for it!! 😡
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2007
- Messages
- 608
- Reaction score
- 1
If your book shows it is harder to get into western than usc you have a problem.
Your stats are way outdated!! 2006. Cedars are correct. I have the ADEA book in front of me.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
- Messages
- 838
- Reaction score
- 4
I have a total of 6 LORs
2 from science professors
1 from non-science professor
1 from dentist I shadowed
1 from extracurricular
and 1 committee letter
Also, when do dental schools start offering interviews? I know they start acceptances as soon as December 1st, but any ideas on interview offers?
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2011
- Messages
- 158
- Reaction score
- 0
If you compare your 17/18/19 + 3.08 science GPA to those averages..none of them match up. Even though Arizona has a lower 17.86/18.63 average (which you don't really meet), their GPA is a lot higher than yours...
I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to be realistic.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
- Messages
- 838
- Reaction score
- 4
When did 18/19 < 17.86/18.63?
Also, 3.28 / 3.083 are not too far from to 3.31/3.16, given GPA inflation and all
And then again, there are 50% of the people who are enrolling with scores lower than those.
I do appreciate the honest opinion though, I'm just trying to get a feel for where I'm at
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 293
- Reaction score
- 0
Right, those stats are up to date and correct. But everyone is right that they are BELOW average. Especially in the DAT science portion which matters a lot more than QR or PAT for some schools. And you are looking at the schools with the lowest stats, so even if you apply to a lot, well chances are still not that good. The people who got into the school with a low GPA probably had high DATs to compensate and vice versa. Having lower GPA and lower DATs do matter. Schools really look at GPA and DAT as a gauge to see if you will be a successful student. Your scores are not telling them that you will be one. And Arizona's stats shouldn't be brought up since they look at community service more than grades anyways.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2009
- Messages
- 5,650
- Reaction score
- 169
I only investigated Arizona... here is where that information came from:
http://www.atsu.edu/asdoh/pdfs/fact_sheet.pdf
Look at page 2... it says "APPLICATIONS RECEIVED 3179" and under it, it lists the GPA and sGPA..... But they aren't listing the MATRICULATION GPA.
So I think the data your seeing is for the the pool of applicants. But the selection criteria is alot higher.
Fyi, unless your packing some SERIOUS volunteering hours, don't bother applying to ASDOH. I've talked to few members whom were told that their 600+ hours in volunteering "might not be enough for our program"
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 293
- Reaction score
- 0
And if you don't want to believe us, best thing is to contact the schools you are interested in and some are nice enough to tell you if you are competitive or not.
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2010
- Messages
- 1,249
- Reaction score
- 56
You are a NJ resident. Go to this link, click on volume 1, go to page 36, and see how many NJ residents attend Arizona(this data isnt 100 percent accurate on how many ppl got ACCEPTED, because it only shows what the state residents of 1st year students, but its still a good rough estimate). http://www.ada.org/1621.aspx
According to this, NJ residents that are 1st year students at D-schools are:
UMDNJ-60(students)
Columbia-13
NYU-12
Temple-9
Tufts-9
Nova-4
UPENN-4
Boston-3
Maryland-3
These schools should be taken as highest priority when deciding what schools to take stat averages from. you should go to predents.com, click member search, type in what you have, and see what students have gotten accepted that are from northeastern states (NY,NJ,MA) and dont have a relatively less competitive state school.
Dont forget, avg stats dont tell the entire story. Some that may have gotten in with LOW DAT may have had a very high GPA, and vice versa. Your PAT is good, your RC is pretty good, but everything else in your app is below avg. a TS of 17 and BCP of 3.118 looks really bad.
TO answer your question, do you have a chance?....yes, everyone single person applying has A chance. What are your odds(being from the northeast)?. Your odds are not very good..watch this video, it will explain your mentality and your odds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2008
- Messages
- 113
- Reaction score
- 0
I had a few low scores in June last year when I took my DAT and had submitted and was in the second or third "batch" of applications sent out (I think July 16). I retook my DAT on 9/11 (perhaps a bad idea, but I did well). I believe everything was sent out to schools like 9/26 and then I received an interview invite from Louisville in October for the end of October. I also received one from IU.
I would say make sure you let your schools know that you are planning on retaking the DAT. They will usually hold your application until you tell them you have retaken it and they receive your scores. Some schools, however, will not hold your application but they won't process it until they have your secondary fee-- so I would suggest email all schools you want to apply to now saying you're planning on a retake. If some say "sorry we won't hold it" then hold off on sending in the secondary fee (if there is one).
I did get rejected from some schools though shortly after receiving my updated scores saying I wasn't competitive enough. I would say definitely check out predents (although some people lie on there) and see what other people with your stats have gone through.
Hope this helps.
I would say make sure you let your schools know that you are planning on retaking the DAT. They will usually hold your application until you tell them you have retaken it and they receive your scores. Some schools, however, will not hold your application but they won't process it until they have your secondary fee-- so I would suggest email all schools you want to apply to now saying you're planning on a retake. If some say "sorry we won't hold it" then hold off on sending in the secondary fee (if there is one).
I did get rejected from some schools though shortly after receiving my updated scores saying I wasn't competitive enough. I would say definitely check out predents (although some people lie on there) and see what other people with your stats have gone through.
Hope this helps.
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2010
- Messages
- 888
- Reaction score
- 4
Those applicants from the lower 50% tend not to be your typical 22 year-old bio major. Many are non-trads with low undergrad GPAs but high postbac grades.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2006
- Messages
- 312
- Reaction score
- 1
I don't mean to pile on the negativity but I was in your shoes two cycles ago and had the same positive outlook. I just got in this past cycle after a serious retake and a 3.8+ in a masters.
What I would try to keep in mind is that rarely do people get in with BOTH a below average GPA AND DAT. The lower DAT scores are most likely from the people with above average GPAs and the below average GPAs are most likely from the people with above average DATs.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2009
- Messages
- 75
- Reaction score
- 0
What he said. I had a slightly above average GPA and an average DAT score and it took me 3 times to get in! I would definately study and retake the DAT. I would also seriously think about Post Bacc or a masters. I wish I had done something like that instead of having a optomistic attitude that I would get in with the scores I got. Not saying you wont get in this year, but start looking at ways to improve so if you dont you can jump on it quick and arent sitting around mid may next year wondering what you can do to boost your application.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2008
- Messages
- 1,211
- Reaction score
- 8
Op.
http://www.adea.org/publications/Documents/OG_2010/OG2010_ch3.pdf
^
the data you are quoting from is students entering in fall 2009. So you have to know the data from students entering if fall 2010 & 2011. and believe me and you, half the interviews i have been to, we had a casual conversation and they have told me that there are more and more applicants applying to dental schools more than before. and the competition is getting really intense.
I dont understand why you are fearing a retake. You have good scores in all the hard sections such as RC. all you have to do is improve your sciences. Your sciences are not good at all. Its going to be really hard.
You can justify well 3.1 is close to 3.38 thats their average or you can justify 18 is close to 19.5 etc... but what it comes down to is pure numbers unless you have something extraordinary in your resume. You do know that people with 14's & 15's & 16's rarely apply to dental school. So I hope you do know that each dental school receives more than 3000 applicants. So the competition size is really huge. I highly suggest you to think about retake.
If you are really stubborn & dont want to listen to anyone who walked in the same path which you are about to. I highly HIGHLY suggest that you take appointment with njds dean. She will talk some good sense into your head. Call njds and ask the lady to make an appointment thats it & if she talks more why just say you want some advice regarding your situation Dont listen to anything the secretary says just make an appointment.
BTW op. if you school follows A, B+, B, C+, C ... grading system your gpa WILL GET LOWER than what you have. But if your school follows A, A-, B+,B-, B, c+c,c-... then your gpa will remain the same. So take all these into considerations and dont go by your gpa on transcript.
Good luck
http://www.adea.org/publications/Documents/OG_2010/OG2010_ch3.pdf
^
the data you are quoting from is students entering in fall 2009. So you have to know the data from students entering if fall 2010 & 2011. and believe me and you, half the interviews i have been to, we had a casual conversation and they have told me that there are more and more applicants applying to dental schools more than before. and the competition is getting really intense.
I dont understand why you are fearing a retake. You have good scores in all the hard sections such as RC. all you have to do is improve your sciences. Your sciences are not good at all. Its going to be really hard.
You can justify well 3.1 is close to 3.38 thats their average or you can justify 18 is close to 19.5 etc... but what it comes down to is pure numbers unless you have something extraordinary in your resume. You do know that people with 14's & 15's & 16's rarely apply to dental school. So I hope you do know that each dental school receives more than 3000 applicants. So the competition size is really huge. I highly suggest you to think about retake.
If you are really stubborn & dont want to listen to anyone who walked in the same path which you are about to. I highly HIGHLY suggest that you take appointment with njds dean. She will talk some good sense into your head. Call njds and ask the lady to make an appointment thats it & if she talks more why just say you want some advice regarding your situation Dont listen to anything the secretary says just make an appointment.
BTW op. if you school follows A, B+, B, C+, C ... grading system your gpa WILL GET LOWER than what you have. But if your school follows A, A-, B+,B-, B, c+c,c-... then your gpa will remain the same. So take all these into considerations and dont go by your gpa on transcript.
Good luck
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2010
- Messages
- 127
- Reaction score
- 0
I'm not trying to be harsh but your GPA and DAT scores are not average whatsoever. The competition is getting harder and harder every year and you stats are actually below average considering only those that matriculate.
Am I saying you have no chance? Absolutely not.
Most important step you took is submitting your app early.
However, a 16 OC, 17 Bio, 17 TS and 3.08 sGPA will kill you.
You should have a back up plan just in case things don't go as you planned. Good luck.
p.s. try to be positive even when you have not received any interviews when some who applied later than you have multiple interviews lined up. You will likely get some interviews after December.
N
nap5035
the problem is, it may seem that 3.28 and 3.08 are close. However, do you know how many applicants there are that land between 3.08 and 3.28? For example, you're a recent graduate. So are a lot of other people. How is a D school going to choose you over someone who has a 3.12? You do realize that there are roughly 100-200 people applying to the school with a gpa between 3.08-3.28? This is why GPA is such a strong selection factor.
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2010
- Messages
- 8
- Reaction score
- 2
I got into to USC and not western. Western said in the rejection letter that I should apply to podiatry where I would be more competitive (*******s). I had a 3.6/3.5 science and a 18AA 16 PAT, I applied late October and took the DAT in November so I couldn't retake but I still managed to get in. Granted I made the decision to apply last cycle 10 days before taking the DAT with very little study time. So I guess I am one of the people who lowers the DAT average yet raises the GPA average.
Last edited:
It doesn't matter what the guide says is the average scores and GPA for a certain school. Your DAT scores and your GPA are nearly identical to mine (DAT AA: 17, cGPA: 3.26, sGPA: 3.1) when I applied the first time. And here I am submitting my application for a third time. The problem isn't so much the DAT scores - I retook the DAT and scored 3 points higher and still didn't get in my second year applying. I didn't even get anymore interviews (1) than the first year. The problem is your GPA. I have had to go back to school and retake courses along with other upper level science courses. Also, I'm beginning a masters program later this month. If you don't get in this year I would suggest going for a one year masters degree. There are plenty of them around the country and the masters level GPA is calculated separately from undergrad studies.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2011
- Messages
- 301
- Reaction score
- 5
Go ahead and apply...but take your DAT again. You need to register for it NOW! I took my DAT on August 3rd and got 17/17/17 with a 3.3/3.3. I interviewed at three schools whilst I was waiting to retake the DAT. Second time around, I got 19/20/16 and got accepted to one school (LLUSD).
Try to make your application "interesting." Lots of people make the mistake of trying to fit in...but if your PS/life story is really interesting to read about, you will be way more successful in landing interviews. What you do in the interview is all on you.
Best of luck to you!
Try to make your application "interesting." Lots of people make the mistake of trying to fit in...but if your PS/life story is really interesting to read about, you will be way more successful in landing interviews. What you do in the interview is all on you.
Best of luck to you!
I think your scores would "ok" if it weren't for your GPA. Personally i'd be much more worried about that. you had pretty great scores for such a low sGPA, so that has to count for something! The avg applicant score is 17 the avg accepted score is something like 18-20 depending on the school. I'd apply to more schools AND to retake the test. That way, at least they'll know you plan to take it again and raise your scores. Good luck!
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2008
- Messages
- 1,211
- Reaction score
- 8
WTF? where are you sending all of your LORs to? Isn't there a max of 4 OR 1 committee letter? If you havent chosen already, advisors at some dental schools I've asked recommended that I pick and choose professors/dentist that could write me the strongest letters. - pretty understood I know, just thought it could help.
My LOR: 2 SCI professors that I went and saw during EVERY OFFICE HOUR and did very well in their classes, Exec Vice Chancellor who became the advisor of a organization I started on campus, Dentist I'm working for and see almost everyday.
Good luck on your application!
My LOR: 2 SCI professors that I went and saw during EVERY OFFICE HOUR and did very well in their classes, Exec Vice Chancellor who became the advisor of a organization I started on campus, Dentist I'm working for and see almost everyday.
Good luck on your application!
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
- Messages
- 838
- Reaction score
- 4
The committee letter my school sends includes all my 5 letters (2 science professors, 1 non-science professor, 1 extracurricular, and 1 dentist) so although I have 6 separate letters, they go in as 1.
I believe they're are all very strong and positive, so hopefully that will give me a boost. Also, the ADEA applcation recalculated my GPA and turns out my sGPA is .1 higher, so 3.2! Yay! Not that much of an improvement, but any help is help! 👍
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
- Messages
- 838
- Reaction score
- 4
Thanks Annie!
I actually do plan on retaking the exam again in September, the earliest I can. I was just wondering, you said to let them know that I am taking it again. How would then find out, unless I get an interview and tell them there?
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
- Messages
- 838
- Reaction score
- 4
Wow, those scores are pretty similar! That's sorta scarying me haha, but then again, hence the title!
Anyway, I definitely do plan on retaking the DAT, as mentioned above, and if I don't get in this cycle, I'd reapply next year (since I am a rising senior and still have one year) and if all else fails, post-bacc!
