KCU/RVU curriculum vs traditional systems curriculum

[just_SAIYAN]

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So I have been very fortunate this application cycle and have been accepted to multiple schools. I really like KCU and RVU and they are at the top of my list right now, but would just like a little clarification on how their curriculum differs from a more traditional style curriculum. I know these modified curriculums at KCU/RVU get multiple passes of all systems and are supposed to be pretty good prep for boards. I also know these curriculums are pretty intense, and I think you focus on just one system at a given time? Also it seems like you do not get much time off for breaks (winter/summer etc) something like 5 weeks off for summer after 1st year. I was wondering if anyone could comment about the curriculum at KCU or RVU and give me an overview of how their curriculum is laid out, and a run down of their schedule on a daily and weekly basis.

For example, I have been accepted to CUSOM and they did a good job at explaining their curriculum, they use the traditional block style. Tests every 3 weeks, quiz every Friday to make sure everyone is on track and grasping material appropriately. Class 8-12 mandatory labs run from 1-5 but are divided into 2 groups so one group has study time for an hour and a half while other is in lab then they switch. 1 week off after every block so every 9 weeks they get a week of to recuperate. I liked how structured their curriculum is and wanted a similar comparison of KCU or RVU.

***On a side note does anyone know why RVU's dean Dr. Dubin left RVU for KCU about a year ago?

 

[WillieTrill]

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***On a side note does anyone know why RVU's dean Dr. Dubin left RVU for KCU about a year ago?

 

[just_SAIYAN]

Hahaha yeah I figured it had something to do with $$$. Do you think it hurts RVU's image at all, and their ability to match well? I've already heard that their for profit status may hinder their students to match at certain places, don't know if this is true or not. Or if the for profit status is that big of a deal in the real world, I know it gets a lot of flak on sdn.

 

[JustPlainBill]

You can bet that KCU/RVU are very close to the Dubin-Putthoff show at TCOM a few years ago when we were #1 in terms of COMLEX scores -- a full 1.5 SD above everyone else --heck, they even had people from other COMs coming in to see how things were done --- it works, no doubt -- in effect, you get dumped into the deep end of the pond and expected to perform like a physician in small baby steps -- it's not like they put a foot on your head to hold you under the water but you don't exactly get dragged out of the deep end on a life preserver either ---

but hey, every place that's had Dubin-Putthoff has eventually wound up with solid board scores -- I think if Dr. D ever got his wish of having Ph.D's who were with the program and the school co-located in a hospital, it would be awesome -- he's a great educator and kinda like an old school football coach -- he really does give a rats rip about his students but doesn't suffer fools --

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The curriculum is pretty intense, and by intense I mean that it will kick your ass.

 

[just_SAIYAN]

The curriculum is pretty intense, and by intense I mean that it will kick your ass.

How is your test schedule laid out (every week/ couple of weeks)? Do you have quizzes? And does the curriculum incorporate a brief overview of the basic sciences to get everyone up to speed before jumping into organ systems?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

How is your test schedule laid out (every week/ couple of weeks)? Do you have quizzes? And does the curriculum incorporate a brief overview of the basic sciences to get everyone up to speed before jumping into organ systems?

Tests are about 1-2 weeks apart in the main classes you take. OS, PCM, etc add in on occasion test or two a few times a month. In the end you'll rarely go a week without having some sort of thing though, including PCM and OS competencies.

You have a Molecular Biology course for 4 weeks. It's pretty intense if you weren't good or forgot a lot of biochem, cell bio, or genetics from your undergrad.

 

[just_SAIYAN]

Tests are about 1-2 weeks apart in the main classes you take. OS, PCM, etc add in on occasion test or two a few times a month. In the end you'll rarely go a week without having some sort of thing though, including PCM and OS competencies.

You have a Molecular Biology course for 4 weeks. It's pretty intense if you weren't good or forgot a lot of biochem, cell bio, or genetics from your undergrad.

Gotcha, I'll have this upcoming semester off from school only commitment is a part time job. Do you recommend I take a genetics or microbio course this fall? My undergrad major wasn't in science and I just took all the pre-reqs plus biochem and anatomy and physiology. But haven't taken a genetics/micro/cell bio...

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Gotcha, I'll have this upcoming semester off from school only commitment is a part time job. Do you recommend I take a genetics or microbio course this fall? My undergrad major wasn't in science and I just took all the pre-reqs plus biochem and anatomy and physiology. But haven't taken a genetics/micro/cell bio...

Chances are you'll be fine. If you can find time in your schedule to practice muscle anatomy a bit, learn at the very least what the 206 basis bones are, then you'll be fine. In my opinion the first two courses were not difficult to do well in or at the very least pass. MSK, which is in truth our first major challenge is a killer course.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

2nd year student at KCU here.

You have a block of about 4-6 weeks w/ 1 midterm and 1 final usually. Then you have OMM and PCM along side that.

- We don't get a lot of time off. I remember having 5 weeks off for summer while my friends at AZCOM and WU had 2 months off. In medical school having even 2 days off is a complete luxury. You sacrifice a month learning microbiology and pathology at the end of first year that gets you ready for 2nd year.

- A majority of 2nd year is the pathology and pharmacology. You get the anatomy and basic physiology out of the way in first year. You cover the higher yield stuff in 2nd year so it's more fresh. In the previous curriculum you had material that had not even been touched for 1.5 year going into board prep.

- Our anatomy practicals are written (on iPads). Other places have multiple choice. All I can say is that we would destroy anatomy practicals if they were MC. The first years are going through MSK so maybe they can chime in on how much it sucks.

- The logic behind having pathology after having covered all the basic system physiology is so that you can see how the pathology affects the organ systems. Imagine learning a disease and not having covered cardio or renal yet. Diseases affect the entire body so having seen all the systems once allows you to connect the dots rather than just memorize for future retrieval.

- We're focused a lot on the boards. Some people like that but it's not for everyone.

It has been mentioned a few times that our school is stricter than a few of the other ones. A 2.7 at KCU might be a 3.0 or 3.2 at another DO school.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Right, I'm studying for the MSK practical. Personally I didn't study for it properly because I assumed that as long as we knew class material and or material the Fellows mentioned we'd be fine..... I was however very incorrect in that. So you'd learn about obturator nerve in your lecture, only to find out that you actually have an anterior branch and a posterior branch downstairs this week.

So in short I've basically spent the majority of my time this week so far balls deep in textbooks. On Sunday I practices in lab for about 4 hours and then spent about 3-4 hours studying for an OMM test on monday that I continued reviewing when I woke up at 5am to study another hour or two until 8 am.

And now I've spent the majority of the yesterday trying to figure out what I do know, what I don't know, and also learning materials for the practical that we only dissected on monday i.e hand and forearm.

So in short, I've got 2.5ish days to basically get every little details related to the muscles, placement, etc on stuff for my hour long practical on friday. Then after I finish that, I've got to immediately go start cramming in lecture anatomy, reviewing the physiology, and then take the test on Monday. Immediately after the test on tuesday we start the next class.


My point in this all is basically to show that there really is no break. If you find yourself in a class you don't inherently find stimulating you're going to basically burn out hard.

 

[just_SAIYAN]

Thanks for the info @serenade @chizledfrmstone I really like the idea of this curriculum just super scared it's going to kick my a$$ so bad that I'll struggle to pass. [emoji28]

Edit: did either of you live at century towers if so how'd you like it? I'm trying to figure out if I do decide on KCU if I should live at CT or closer to the Westport area. I wouldn't mind a 10 min drive to school and it would be nice to live in a little bit better/safer area. But I'll be coming to med school alone and idk if it would be better to live at CT where a lot of students live for purposes of making friends and being close to classmates...Any thoughts?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Thanks for the info @serenade @chizledfrmstone I really like the idea of this curriculum just super scared it's going to kick my a$$ so bad that I'll struggle to pass. [emoji28]

They turn the heat on slowly and I personally believe immuno was more of a slow simmer. By MSK you've got all the tools necessary to succeed, the question is more about whether or not you get shafted by other factors.

 

[just_SAIYAN]

They turn the heat on slowly and I personally believe immuno was more of a slow simmer. By MSK you've got all the tools necessary to succeed, the question is more about whether or not you get shafted by other factors.

Other factors being?

 

[SnowDoggy44]

Does KCU even teach histology or pathology with pictures anymore?
They don't even have a microbiologist to teach microbiology.

 

[AlteredScale]

Does KCU even teach histology or pathology with pictures anymore?
They don't even have a microbiologist to teach microbiology.

nope. we are taught histo and path with pictures but never tested on histo because it doesnt show up on boards.

microbiology can be taught fairly easily by a pathologist...would be nice to have a infectious disease specialist to teach but you really dont need the deep details of microbiology to learn what you need for boards.

 

[AlteredScale]

Thanks for the info @serenade @chizledfrmstone I really like the idea of this curriculum just super scared it's going to kick my a$$ so bad that I'll struggle to pass. [emoji28]

Edit: did either of you live at century towers if so how'd you like it? I'm trying to figure out if I do decide on KCU if I should live at CT or closer to the Westport area. I wouldn't mind a 10 min drive to school and it would be nice to live in a little bit better/safer area. But I'll be coming to med school alone and idk if it would be better to live at CT where a lot of students live for purposes of making friends and being close to classmates...Any thoughts?

the curriculum will kick your behind without a doubt and you will go into exams feeling like you know nothing. that is just how it is here. but you will be fine because your classmates will be there for you to help you out. i cannot stress how important it is to study with them because they will help check your knowledge base and provide a second opinion in case you are weong about anything.

MSK is only "easy" for those who have true cadaver experience. i know of one who worked in a cadaver lab and another who took it with a very intense professor in undergrad who are doing well.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

nope. we are taught histo and path with pictures but never tested on histo because it doesnt show up on boards.

microbiology can be taught fairly easily by a pathologist...would be nice to have a infectious disease specialist to teach but you really dont need the deep details of microbiology to learn what you need for boards.

Never tested on Histo... Now I am jealous.

 

[acapnial]

Never tested on Histo... Now I am jealous.

The particular pathologist they're talking about more than makes up for the lost misery of histo studying in other ways. Don't be jealous.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

The particular pathologist they're talking about more than makes up for the lost misery of histo studying in other ways. Don't be jealous.

This comment puts me off.

 

[Bbutterfly]

This comment puts me off.

Well played!

 

[acapnial]

This comment puts me off.

Every batman needs his robbin

 

[asdf123g]

Anyone know what RVU and KCU's class size's were respectively?

 

[just_SAIYAN]

From what I remember at my interview days
RVU around 165
KCU around 270

*Corrected

 

[Elevencents]

KCU is 270

 

[hbslax4]

RVU is right around 165-170

 

[jsmith522]

The classes will kick your ass. I am only a 1st year at RVU an truly getting my ass kicked. But there are great support systems here at RVU. They really want everyone to succeed. Those that have been struggling are still with us. Once you get through MSK into Cardio it seems like life gets better. I would totally go to either school with my choice being RVU. That said please let me know if you have any questions at all. I would be willing to answer them. Also of note we had someone score 992 on the boards las year. Yes that's an oddity but I do feel that although the curriculum kicks your butt you will do well on the boards when you get there.

 

[apr27]

a lot remains to be seen at KCU as we are the guinea pig class. With the exception of anatomy lab, I though the first year curriculum was great. Embryo could have used some work though. Second years needs work in my opinion.The path is fine, but the non path portions of each course, the extra clinical work they make us do, the way they're doing OS, and these PCM cases needs more work.

I think their solution to improvement has been to add more to our curriculum in order to better prepare for boards, and lately, third year. While I find this admirable, sometimes I think maybe doing less right now might be better. Who knows though? Maybe we'll have an average above 230 this year and it would have all been worth it.

 

[asdf123g]

a lot remains to be seen at KCU as we are the guinea pig class. With the exception of anatomy lab, I though the first year curriculum was great. Embryo could have used some work though. Second years needs work in my opinion.The path is fine, but the non path portions of each course, the extra clinical work they make us do, the way they're doing OS, and these PCM cases needs more work.

I think their solution to improvement has been to add more to our curriculum in order to better prepare for boards, and lately, third year. While I find this admirable, sometimes I think maybe doing less right now might be better. Who knows though? Maybe we'll have an average above 230 this year and it would have all been worth it.

congrats, you are the first person ive seen who actually says something 'bad' about KCU. Im still waiting to here something bad about CUSOM...

 

[apr27]

congrats, you are the first person ive seen who actually says something 'bad' about KCU. Im still waiting to here something bad about CUSOM...

Hah. I guess, but I think I anyone should be critical of something you're investing/paying +$40,000 to. Just don't let my statements turn you away from KCU. IMO, and I think many others would share this, is that KCU is a very established institution, which will serve you well come rotations and residency. Yeah, I have my issues with the way things are going, but maybe "they" know more than me.

Also, medical school/boards is what you put into it. The curriculum can certainly help (or not), but my success on boards will largely be attributed to the effort I put into it. With that in mind, I'd rather play my cards with a established/old institution. So, I think that is something to consider as well.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

congrats, you are the first person ive seen who actually says something 'bad' about KCU. Im still waiting to here something bad about CUSOM...

There are plenty of negative opinions of things done at KCU. Class of 2018 got majorly shafted in many regards.


That being said, our school undoubtedly is one of the best and is doing a lot right.

 

[Zaphod42]

a lot remains to be seen at KCU as we are the guinea pig class. With the exception of anatomy lab, I though the first year curriculum was great. Embryo could have used some work though. Second years needs work in my opinion.The path is fine, but the non path portions of each course, the extra clinical work they make us do, the way they're doing OS, and these PCM cases needs more work.

I think their solution to improvement has been to add more to our curriculum in order to better prepare for boards, and lately, third year. While I find this admirable, sometimes I think maybe doing less right now might be better. Who knows though? Maybe we'll have an average above 230 this year and it would have all been worth it.

Wanted to add to this. I also think there is too much focus on anatomical pathology and clinical medicine instead of pathophysiology which is a huge part of step 1. Nothing goljan can't cover though...