Keeping Good Grades in Pharm school

[laura_mideon]

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Okay. I can almost hear the collective sigh at my title (considering there have been about a million posts about how to keep good grades and a social life......but no...that's not my question)

My question is, what's the point in maintaining a high gpa and good grades after getting in to pharmacy school (like all 90's or something, instead of just the minimum)? I mean, we won't be worrying about an adcom anymore. I can think of only 2 reasons--- #1) being elegible for scholarships and #2) becoming a pharmacist who actually knows everything that they are supposed to.....but are there any other bonuses to getting mostly A's in pharmacy school??? Does it help you to get a better position after or anything??

Just curious.

 

[kwakster928]

Okay. I can almost hear the collective sigh at my title (considering there have been about a million posts about how to keep good grades and a social life......but no...that's not my question)

My question is, what's the point in maintaining a high gpa and good grades after getting in to pharmacy school (like all 90's or something, instead of just the minimum)? I mean, we won't be worrying about an adcom anymore. I can think of only 2 reasons--- #1) being elegible for scholarships and #2) becoming a pharmacist who actually knows everything that they are supposed to.....but are there any other bonuses to getting mostly A's in pharmacy school??? Does it help you to get a better position after or anything??

Just curious.

doesn't knowing all you can about pharmacy and actually using the knowledge that you spent gigillion dollars is not a motivation factor for you?

 

[laura_mideon]

Yah, it is for me......but I love making good grades, I would feel like a failure if I only made it through with C's, I was just wondering if it effects future job choices or anything.

 

[28657]

Well even if you try your hardest, there will be a couple of classes that stump you.

If you slide by and get a bunch of C's and one D in a tricky class, you're in poor shape. However, if you've done your best with A's and B's that one D won't hurt you too much.

But in a sense you're right, as they say "C's get degrees".

 

[jdpharmd?]

Well even if you try your hardest, there will be a couple of classes that stump you.

If you slide by and get a bunch of C's and one D in a tricky class, you're in poor shape. However, if you've done your best with A's and B's that one D won't hurt you too much.

But in a sense you're right, as they say "C's get degrees".

I thought it was "C's earn pharmDs" or "2.0 equals lots of dough" or "Whatever, I'll still graduate and have 9 job offers before I'm even eligible to sit for the boards..."

 

[Rx4Life]

Um... you might need good grades if ya wanna get a good (competitive) residency program, which would lead you to the track of specializing. The docs will also benefit from your superb command of drug info, and opportunities abound for those who are grade-concsious. (bump the spelling and grammar)


Rx4life

By the way this forum r0x0rz!!!

 

[MALA]

My question is, what's the point in maintaining a high gpa and good grades after getting in to pharmacy school (like all 90's or something, instead of just the minimum)? I mean, we won't be worrying about an adcom anymore. I can think of only 2 reasons--- #1) being elegible for scholarships and #2) becoming a pharmacist who actually knows everything that they are supposed to.....but are there any other bonuses to getting mostly A's in pharmacy school??? Does it help you to get a better position after or anything??

Just curious.

I've heard engineers state that "C's kill people", I would think it could apply to anyone in the medical profession as well. Think about it, you're in the hospital and too weak to steal a look at your chart and hassle the pharmacist....who would you rather have take care of you? Someone that is 100% positive on how the dosage of meds will interact in your system? Or someone that knows...kind of....but..... ?

 

[OSURxgirl]

I agree that good grades are important for scholarships, fellowships, and residency. Also, if you are intersted in belonging to honor socieites, good grades are important. Even though grades aren't everything, if I were to choose between 2 people for a job, and both had similar stats, except one had a significantly higher GPA, I'd pick the higher GPA, if all else was fairly equal. That being said, I don't think there's going to be a shortage of jobs or anything, but more competitive students should most likely get more competitive jobs if all other stats are equal to their peers'. It's all about balance and what you value. If you are more interested in an A in medchem than several nights out a week with friends, then get that A. If you'd rather have a B or C and enjoy life, that's fine too. If you want to have fun AND get the A, just don't sleep much...lol.

 

[PHARMD_Maybe?]

Sleep is overrated anyway. Let's Party!!

 

[jdpharmd?]

I've heard engineers state that "C's kill people", I would think it could apply to anyone in the medical profession as well. Think about it, you're in the hospital and too weak to steal a look at your chart and hassle the pharmacist....who would you rather have take care of you? Someone that is 100% positive on how the dosage of meds will interact in your system? Or someone that knows...kind of....but..... ?

I'd venture a guess that 99.9+ percent of errors are not because "somebody didn't learn something in school". The majority of errors are errors of omission, look-alike/sound-alike, or pure exhaustion. My hat goes off to the person who earns straight As in pharmacy school. I think that we might have ONE person (out of 130+) who has gotten a 4.0 the last 3 quarters. By the way, to those looking for residiency/fellowship positions: It's more who you know than what you know. Trust me. 👍

 

[Ivorymist]

Sleep, grades, life. Pick two, my friends.

What do you mean by "who you know" Jd? Someone with the right connections will be looked upon more favorably?

 

[jdpharmd?]

What do you mean by "who you know" Jd? Someone with the right connections will be looked upon more favorably?

Couldn't have said it better myself. I know of several students who were/are on the fast track to an impressive fellowship/intership with absolutely mediocre grades. If you have a good relationship with a professor/preceptor, it's easy for them to shape/mold you into the "perfect candidate" for their open resident/fellow position. It could even be defended as "XXXX is very interested in XXXXX position" (by virtue of association). Good grades absolutely do not hurt, but it's not the top 10 students in the class who get the top 10 spots.

 

[spacecowgirl]

I'd venture a guess that 99.9+ percent of errors are not because "somebody didn't learn something in school". The majority of errors are errors of omission, look-alike/sound-alike, or pure exhaustion. My hat goes off to the person who earns straight As in pharmacy school. I think that we might have ONE person (out of 130+) who has gotten a 4.0 the last 3 quarters. By the way, to those looking for residiency/fellowship positions: It's more who you know than what you know. Trust me. 👍

👍 what jd said. I keep my grades up for my scholarship and just because I'm anal like that, but I don't worry as much as I did pre-pharmacy about making As. I'm much more concerned about learning the material, remembering it, and being able to utilize it effectively in my practice setting. I think that's more important than stuffing a bunch of memorization in my head only to have it gone as I'm leaving from the exam. There are plenty of people I know who make straight As but the thought of them as pharmacists? Grades don't necessarily = knowledge.

 

[cognito]

It is who you know. Individuals familiar with the right staff sometimes get offered residency positions before even applying for them

 

[lord999]

In studies done on practicing pharmacists, there was no correlation between clinical performance and grades earned during school. Unlike other degrees, a "C" in pharmacy school is truly a passable grade (meaning you won't kill anyone with your knowledge).

Besides, the drugs that I have learned in pharmacy school will, to a large extent, be outdated knowledge a decade from now. I'm sure that Pilot and GravyRPh aren't practicing with the same medications that they were taught in school, even the "cutting-edge" ones.

As for residencies, grades get you to the interviewing table. The interview and ASHP Midyear make or break your prospects.

I'm comfortable practicing with a C or D pharmacist so long as they know when to look the things they don't know up. An incompetent pharmacist due to a lack of time management skills, consistency, and concentration than lack of knowledge.

I've found that good pharmacists have a particular system of steps and environment that they work in every single time and can appropriately multitask safely for both the community and hospital environments.

 

[quinn25]

I am located in California and from what I understand (through conversations with pharmacists, students, and professors) that being in the top percentile of your class will get you an externship in a location that you desire. The whole system is based on a lottery system and having the highest grades will earn you an earlier spot to pick the city you want to work in. However, a professor told me that having a dire situation also helps (i.e. having a spouse in the military, etc). But besides this, the other posts are right in that you should be motivated to do well so that you can serve your community well.

 

[GravyRPH]

That's true. I forgot about that. At UOP, the higher your gpa the better chance you had of getting your first choice for your rotations.

 

[laura_mideon]

Even though grades aren't everything, if I were to choose between 2 people for a job, and both had similar stats, except one had a significantly higher GPA, I'd pick the higher GPA, if all else was fairly equal.

So does that mean the potential employers will be able to see our GPA's??

 

[kwakster928]

So does that mean the potential employers will be able to see our GPA's??

i know for sure if you are applying for the residency you will have to submit your transcript. i do not know about other retail or staff pharmacist jobs at the hospital.

 

[laura_mideon]

Although even if they can't , they will still know if you got honours or not....at least here, because it's either a bachelor, bachelor with honours or bachelor with first class honours and I'm sure people would include that in their resume.

 

[tupac_don]

Okay. I can almost hear the collective sigh at my title (considering there have been about a million posts about how to keep good grades and a social life......but no...that's not my question)

My question is, what's the point in maintaining a high gpa and good grades after getting in to pharmacy school (like all 90's or something, instead of just the minimum)? I mean, we won't be worrying about an adcom anymore. I can think of only 2 reasons--- #1) being elegible for scholarships and #2) becoming a pharmacist who actually knows everything that they are supposed to.....but are there any other bonuses to getting mostly A's in pharmacy school??? Does it help you to get a better position after or anything??

Just curious.

Hey Laura,

Good question about the grades. Being the person who did get mostly A's in pharmacy school I will tell you the +/-. Okay here it goes.

1) getting good grades in pharmacy school, doesn't necessarily benefit you if you wanna be a baseline pharmacist, like work retail or staff in hospital

2) Grades do matter for: scholarships, fellowship and residency (although much less so than fellowship). Also it's important to keep good grades if you want to pursue any type of academic endavour post pharmacy school, say PhD or Masters or maybe a different school, which is very popular now. Say a law degree or an MBA or masters in Public Health. So yea grades can be important. I mean the way I see it if you are good and you can do it, you shouldn't slack. If it becomes a matter of getting 90 or a 94 and staying an all nighter to get it, that might not make sense. But you should just not do work cuz you got in and just pass. Also it's not that tough. Best of luck.

One more important thing. The more you move up in pharmacy education wise say residency, fellowship and so forth, those things that depend on grades, the less your pay becomes. That is kind of paradoxical, but allows you to do more cerebral work, rather than routine mechanical work.

 

[tupac_don]

In studies done on practicing pharmacists, there was no correlation between clinical performance and grades earned during school. Unlike other degrees, a "C" in pharmacy school is truly a passable grade (meaning you won't kill anyone with your knowledge).

Besides, the drugs that I have learned in pharmacy school will, to a large extent, be outdated knowledge a decade from now. I'm sure that Pilot and GravyRPh aren't practicing with the same medications that they were taught in school, even the "cutting-edge" ones.

As for residencies, grades get you to the interviewing table. The interview and ASHP Midyear make or break your prospects.

I'm comfortable practicing with a C or D pharmacist so long as they know when to look the things they don't know up. An incompetent pharmacist due to a lack of time management skills, consistency, and concentration than lack of knowledge.

I've found that good pharmacists have a particular system of steps and environment that they work in every single time and can appropriately multitask safely for both the community and hospital environments.

I don't know about those studies. Are you sure they are double blinded, placebo controled multicenter trials?????? hahaha Well little joke, but I found that good students also have a good work ethic, so they try to excell at anything they do. You are right there are less than stellar students who can shine in clinicals b/c they have good personality and get along with preceptor. But in general I have found that those with better grades are typically better overall. Why don't you check the poll and see how many pharmacists who are in any type of high positions what were their grades in pharmacy school. i don't think you will see too many with a C avg or even B for that matter. but B's are competitive for most residencies.

 

[pharmacy111]

So more you specialize, less you get paid?? How is that possible? I would imagine with more skill, more marketable you will be...

 

[lord999]

Hey Laura,

Good question about the grades. Being the person who did get mostly A's in pharmacy school I will tell you the +/-. Okay here it goes.

1) getting good grades in pharmacy school, doesn't necessarily benefit you if you wanna be a baseline pharmacist, like work retail or staff in hospital

2) Grades do matter for: scholarships, fellowship and residency (although much less so than fellowship). Also it's important to keep good grades if you want to pursue any type of academic endavour post pharmacy school, say PhD or Masters or maybe a different school, which is very popular now. Say a law degree or an MBA or masters in Public Health. So yea grades can be important. I mean the way I see it if you are good and you can do it, you shouldn't slack. If it becomes a matter of getting 90 or a 94 and staying an all nighter to get it, that might not make sense. But you should just not do work cuz you got in and just pass. Also it's not that tough. Best of luck.

One more important thing. The more you move up in pharmacy education wise say residency, fellowship and so forth, those things that depend on grades, the less your pay becomes. That is kind of paradoxical, but allows you to do more cerebral work, rather than routine mechanical work.

I beg to differ. Most of us who got quality residencies in my class (VA, IHS, UC system) were maybe the the 1st quartile of my class. There were a couple of us who got residencies who were third quartile students.

For graduate school, I don't think that UMN was particularly concerned about my grades. All of the pharmacy graduate programs (particularly pharmaceutics) need pharmacists to the point of ignoring other deficiencies in the application. However, law, medicine, and business still require a strong GPA for admission.

Wow, I didn't know rotations were assigned by grades in CA. That really puts the competitive pressure on, doesn't it?

I can't really argue about the pay though. The ROI for advanced degrees only gives a small percentage of recouping the OC of just working as a pharmacist. It's generally a losing proposition on the pecuniary topic.

I am not advocating the "2.0 equals dough" approach to pharmacy school, but realize that making a C is not a disaster if you learned what you needed to from the subject.

 

[npp71681]

So more you specialize, less you get paid?? How is that possible? I would imagine with more skill, more marketable you will be...

Hi!
pharmacy111,


I was wondering the same thing.

Because after you get your Pharm.D, you have to do 1-2 years of residency and get even less money than the one who doesn't have residency(just have Pharm.D)? How come this works more education=less money and less education=more money?

 

[PharmDMD]

Hey everyone,


Well from a recent Pharm.D's perspective, the following are important reasons to strive to perform well in Pharmacy School

#1) For your patients, obviously! Pharmacists have been trying for decades now to break the mentality that we're nothing more than glorified "pill counters" or "physician lacheys". And with the advent of clinical pharmacy and disease state management, we're making good progress. Intuitively, patients often approach a pharmacist first with questions regarding a condition they've been "meaning to get checked out by an M.D." Unfortunately, the message that many pharmacists (especially some BS Pharmacists, who were trained to say "See your doctor") are sending the public is---don't ask me anything more than where to find the tylenol or aspirin. Since rotations and even graduation, my colleagues and I have been utilizing our knowledge of disease states to help patients make the best use of their medications. And while there may not be anything curative until a patient sees their MD, the PharmD, who studied well in Rx school and knows more than the bare minimum, can offer options in regard to symptomatic control, disease state monitoring, and perhaps questions that they may ask their physician that will help them gain a better understanding

#2) If you're interested in clinical positions or residencies post graduation, you need to perform well in your courses. Besides that, if you put in the bare minimum in regard to studying for exams you will look like a fool on clinical rotations. The pharmacy profession is really beginning to parallel the medical profession in many ways, including training. Maybe in 4-5 years, residencies will be a requirement for a decent Rx position. Pharmacy practitioners are becoming more knowledgable and utilizing their expertise in pharmacotherapy to bring a great contribution to not only the medical team, but on the patient's behalf.

#3) If you're interested in becoming a member of the prestigious Rho Chi (Pharmaceutical Honor Society), grades will definitly be a major determining factor. Life long membership in this organization is impressive on both resumes and CVs, not to mention among your peers.

#4) Your "barely passing grades" in your courses will not bode well in fairly competitive classes. Entering Pharm.D. classes today are not comprised of the BS Pharm courses 10 years ago. Today's Rx class often have >50% students with a minimum of a Bachelor's degree and about 10% with a M.S. and even PhDs. The average GPA is approximately 3.6-3.7 and PCAT scores or marticulants have bordered around the 80-85%. You have your initial Pre-med groups that also often utilize Rx as an alternate when medicine doesn't pan out so you're likely to see some "gunners" in your classes as well. Remember pharmacy school is notorious for students who fail during the 4 year curriculum versus Medicine, wherein the rate limiting step is primarily the admissions process. That acceptance letter you get from your Rx school does not necessarily translate to a Pharm.D. diploma on your expected graduation date.

#5) You are a health care practitioner with a doctorate degree. You are expected to be the expert in drug therapy, more so than the physician. How would you like to be cared for by the MD who'se philosophy in med school was "C= See ya' later or Continue towards Graduation" I would certainly hope my pharmacy providers are more dedicated to their education than just being "mediocre"


Hope this helps! This is really just a few of the major reasons why you should strive to do well. I know this is an exciting time for all the incoming Rx students. Congratulations on your accomplishments, but don't rest on your laurels. Work hard future Pharm.D.s

Harold DelasAlas, Pharm.D. '04
UTMB School of Medicine Class of 2008
Email: [email protected] (feel free to email me with some questions and I'll try to answer em when I get a chance)

 

[afrikankoffee]

good post PharmDMD!

 

[tupac_don]

Hi!
pharmacy111,


I was wondering the same thing.

Because after you get your Pharm.D, you have to do 1-2 years of residency and get even less money than the one who doesn't have residency(just have Pharm.D)? How come this works more education=less money and less education=more money?

Since, I posted this, I should explain it too. Yes it sounds counter intuitive doesn't it that you make less money but it's a paradox. You gotta understand something, the money is currently in retail. If you go to retail you will make more money than in the hospital.

Now when you specialize, and say now you are a specialist in say cardiology. You don't make necessarily more money than even a staff pharmacist and surely less than retail. If you look at hourly wage, the clinical specialist makes less, than the staff who is strictly hourly based whereas the specialist is salary based. The specialist does more work too.

Now here is the kicker, if you get into some research or somethign like that and you can hook up with one of the drug companies, then you can roll in the dough. Say one guy from Pfizer told us he was making a quarter of a mill. But to get there you need about ~4 years post pharm D and very strong connections.

You gotta understand there is no money in research, who has money is the retail stores and drug companies, wheras the hospitals don't. So the more you specialize doesn't equal more money. Just arguably equals more respect and defiently more confidence in what you do.

If you go fellowship and research and you hook up with a university, u will make the least money. I am talking $60000-70 G's /year depending on experience and work 60-80 hrs a week. Plus you have to publish to be on the tenure track. Money is just not in academics.

Again it's not like you make bad money, as a clinical specialist when you are done with the training. You still make like 80-90 thousand dollars, but you can make more than that as just a graduate, if money is all you are chasing. Go work CVS for $100,000 plus bonuses. If you go for residencies, fellowships and so forth, you don't go for money you go for job satisfaction. The hospitals also sell doing residencies that it is more intellectual work as well as more of an academic, learning environment, wheras retail you are a highly paid quality control. Many Rx's I talked to complain how boring, repetitive job retail is and how little respect you get from customers. So that's another point to consider. You are also gonna feel more competent and will learn a lot more than an avg pharmacist with additional residency/fellowship training, but you won't make more money sorry to say that.

Good luck.

 

[npp71681]

Hi!
tupac_don,

Thank you! for your help.
Now, I am clear about these residencies, fellowships, etc...

 

[laura_mideon]

Wow, thanks for all the excellent responses. I definitely see the light now 😉

Btw...what's Rho Chi all about, is it only in the states???

 

[jdpharmd?]

Btw...what's Rho Chi all about, is it only in the states???

Hate to break it to you, but nobody lives in Canada, dude. Nobody...
Honestly, I have no idea if Canada's 2 pharmacy schools have Rho Chi... I kind of doubt it. What are pharmacists paid with socialized medicine and all?

 

[laura_mideon]

Hey....we have more than 2....I'm applying to 6 in Canada, and I think there's more.
No need to be ignorant.

 

[jdpharmd?]

Hey....we have more than 2....I'm applying to 6 in Canada, and I think there's more.
No need to be ignorant.

Perhaps you would like to enlighten us. I doubt many of us know about the state of pharmacy education in Canada. Are you applying for the Bachelor's program? I found 9 pharmacy schools in Canada. 2 were in Quebec, so I would assume that knowing French is vital for those. Of the 7 not in Quebec, several had very strict residency requirements (Only maritime residents, only Saskatchewan residents {except 3 students}, etc). I am also curious how pharmacy works with socialized medicine, as I indicated in my previous post. People have been answering your questions without knowing that you're in Canada. Your opportunities might be very different from ours, especially if pharmacy is primarily an undergraduate degree in CA, and considering the motivations for pharmacuetical care (govt, industry, insurance, workforce models, etc are all different). The Canada thing was a Joke. I'm from northern Michigan. It's not like I was born in a desert. 😱

 

[afrikankoffee]

Desert-born child here so I take offense jd!! 😡 😛 he, j/kidding!
But yes laura, some insight into the canadian pharmD choices would be great. I considered applying to Canada but it seemed at the time most if not all offered were B.S. programs and the ones that didn't were stringent towards admitting even non-state applicants.

 

[laura_mideon]

People have been answering your questions without knowing that you're in Canada.

Sorry, I thought where it says "location: Canada" under my name would help with that.

Sorry.....I always take offense to Canadian insults, I live in Vancouver and I don't think it's much different then the states so I never quite understand why we're made fun of so much.

I don't know much about pharmD programs because I'm just looking at B.S. programs unless I go to the states (4-5 years is the most I want to look at for now)......so if I stay in Canada I'm going only for my Bachelor.

So the schools that I'm applying to are the University of British Columbia, U of Alberta, Memorial University of Newfoundland, Dalhousie University (they say they only take local residents but I spoke with an advisor who said as long as I'm willing to move there beforehand they'll probably be fine with it....they decide case by case), University of Toronto, and the University of Saskatchewan.
I don't know about the Quebec requirements because I wouldn't be willing to live there.

I am also curious how pharmacy works with socialized medicine, as I indicated in my previous post.....Your opportunities might be very different from ours, especially if pharmacy is primarily an undergraduate degree in CA, and considering the motivations for pharmacuetical care (govt, industry, insurance, workforce models, etc are all different).

Well...obviously the money for a pharmacist is less in Canada. But I would rather take the smaller pay then move. Our healthcare system is completely different then yours too, so the opportunity to go into business ourselves is different, based on differences in insurance. Based on what I've seen of American pharmacies, I think there is more interactive counselling and patient care then I have seen here. I don't know why that is, do you? It seems Americans are more willing to call/see their pharmacist for advice then Canadians are.....that might just be a big generalization but I've definitely noticed it. Do you think because of the insurance thing, cause it's free to see your pharmacist? I admit, I'm not very knowledgeable about the healthcare system in the states so it's hard to compare.

 

[PharmDMD]

Rho Chi is the Pharmaceutical Honor Society. Most members that are pharmacy students were invited during the summer of their second year. The society's prestige is similar to that of AOA or Alpha Omega Alpha, the Medical Honor Society. Up to 20% of the highest ranking students in each professional class may be selected for membership (doesn't necessarily mean that 20% will be inducted) The Society's members receive a gold pin that may either be worn on their coat lapel or worn as a necklace by female members. (men are also welcome, if they so choose 😀 ). Certificates are distributed along with the pins at the Induction ceremony at the fall of third year wherein your family members, faculty, and current rho chi members are in attendance. You will also be recognized at graduation (by name and in the commencement program) and via the purple and gold honor cords. The Society sponsors many activities during their 3rd and 4th year (depending on the school chapter) and Students are lifelong members--should you be interested in learning more visit--www.rhochi.org

 

[bananaface]

I thought it was pretty obvious that you are Canadian, Laura. 🙂

I heard that pharmacists in Canada make the equivalent of 45K-50K USD/year. Does that sound right?

 

[laura_mideon]

I thought it was pretty obvious that you are Canadian, Laura. 🙂

I heard that pharmacists in Canada make the equivalent of 45K-50K USD/year. Does that sound right?

Yah definitely starting around 50-60k US. Just like anywhere though, depends on if you're willing to go where the demand is. I know of someone who recently took a job in a really under populated area of Canada for about $85K US. It seems to be all about priorities and flexibility (unfortunately 😛 )

 

[lord999]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I yet to find evidence that grades produce a competent or incompetent pharmacist.

A levels and intelligence as predictors of medical careers in UK doctors: 20 year prospective study.
McManus IC, Smithers E, Partridge P, Keeling A, Fleming PR. BMJ

Clinical experience, performance in final examinations, and learning style in medical students: prospective study.

McManus IC, Richards P, Winder BC, Sproston KA.


Drug Intell Clin Pharm. 1983 Apr;17(4):297-301. Related Articles, Links

Predicting success of pharmacy students in basic science and clinical clerkship courses.

Kimberlin CL, Hadsall RS, Gourley DR, Benedict LK.

Pharmacotherapy. 2001 Jul;21(7):842-9. Related Articles, Links

Prepharmacy predictors of success in pharmacy school: grade point averages, pharmacy college admissions test, communication abilities, and critical thinking skills.

(This is an interesting one. Basically says that the PCAT is the indicator of success in clinical clerkship: PCAT >= CCTST >>> Interview and Assessment >> GPA.)

Certainly more research is needed for the area. I think there has to be predictive factors on who succeeds in pharmacy. Our own instincts and predictions of our fellow classmates tend to be accurate. But don't get into the intellectual pitfall that higher grades equals higher competency. That is more a component of what practice experience, personality, and drive of that particular pharmacist. This may or may not translate into good grades in academia.

And just in case someone wants to argue ad hominem with me because I didn't make decent grades in class, I was the RX secretary for my year, graduated 7th at final ranking as a Pharm. D. with a 47 hour average workweek at WAG.

Finally, I don't think anyone really cares in the real world about RX membership. KP and PDC seem to give that extra edge to applicants more so than RX in the residency hunt. Maybe it has something to do with that "fraternity" concept than honors.

 

[jdpharmd?]

Sorry, I thought where it says "location: Canada" under my name would help with that.

Take a look at all the people who suggested post-pharmD fellowships, or positions like clinical pharmacy. Re-read the posts regarding salary (USD), the quotes like "Say one guy from Pfizer told us he was making a quarter of a mill." or "Go work CVS for $100,000 plus bonuses." or "Entering Pharm.D. classes today are not comprised of the BS Pharm courses 10 years ago. Today's Rx class often have >50% students with a minimum of a Bachelor's degree and about 10% with a M.S. and even PhDs." or "But to get there you need about ~4 years post pharm D and very strong connections." and decide if they were talking about Canada. Then, let me know if you think it was clear to them. It's not that I didn't know that you were in Canada, it's that the people who replied didn't consider it. (Except Banana, of course.. who probably picked up on "honours") 👍

Nothing like a little Canadian sarcasm to brighten everyone's day. 🙄

 

[laura_mideon]

Take a look at all the people who suggested post-pharmD fellowships, or positions like clinical pharmacy. Re-read the posts regarding salary (USD), the quotes like "Say one guy from Pfizer told us he was making a quarter of a mill." or "Go work CVS for $100,000 plus bonuses." or "Entering Pharm.D. classes today are not comprised of the BS Pharm courses 10 years ago. Today's Rx class often have >50% students with a minimum of a Bachelor's degree and about 10% with a M.S. and even PhDs." or "But to get there you need about ~4 years post pharm D and very strong connections." and decide if they were talking about Canada. Then, let me know if you think it was clear to them.

Well it could be possible that they have read previous posts where I have expressed my interest in applying in the states, or maybe they realize that this is a primarily american forum and since I am here, I am obviously aware that the advice is from americans so they assumed I'm fine with that. Why would I expect americans to give me canadian advice?
I'm sorry it seems to offend you that I'm Canadian, but I am looking for american and canadian advice.

 

[jdpharmd?]

Well it could be possible that they have read previous posts where I have expressed my interest in applying in the states, or maybe they realize that this is a primarily american forum and since I am here, I am obviously aware that the advice is from americans so they assumed I'm fine with that. Why would I expect americans to give me canadian advice?
I'm sorry it seems to offend you that I'm Canadian, but I am looking for american and canadian advice.

Nothing wrong with being Canadian. It was the attitude that offended me. Glad you're finding some good advice. If "ChunkyB" is still around SDN, she can give you some advice. She was attending pharmacy school in Michigan when I left to come to school here. She's also from Canada, but came here as an international student. Insurance and healthcare in general was quite a shock for her, from what I remember.

 

[laura_mideon]

Hate to break it to you, but nobody lives in Canada, dude. Nobody...
Honestly, I have no idea if Canada's 2 pharmacy schools have Rho Chi... I kind of doubt it. What are pharmacists paid with socialized medicine and all?

If you recall, you were the one who got offended that a Canadian was discussing this Rho Chi thing, I didn't give you attitude until you rudely responded to my question. Haven't you ever heard the saying "if you don't have anything nice to say....then shut the **** up?"
I didn't give you any attitude til you opened your ignorant mouth.

 

[Asnchic]

Kum-Bay-YAAAAAAAAAAAAH

 

[jdpharmd?]

If you recall, you were the one who got offended that a Canadian was discussing this Rho Chi thing, I didn't give you attitude until you rudely responded to my question. Haven't you ever heard the saying "if you don't have anything nice to say....then shut the **** up?"
I didn't give you any attitude til you opened your ignorant mouth.

I like how you selectively reply to my posts. Ignore any serious quetions and turn the jokes into "ignorance" and profanity. Sounds like somebody has a chip on their shoulder.

 

[laura_mideon]

I didn't ignore any serious questions, and I didn't know you were joking......it sounds like you're just being mean.

 

[28657]

Laura -
It's always hard to decipher the context of what someone is writing. Posting on a forum isn't like speaking in real life - you can't hear inflections or emphasis and oftentimes sarcasm isn't as well received in written form. I don't think JD was intending to be mean. He was teasing and he did ask real questions like, "I am curious how pharmacy works with socialized medicine", as well as asking for you to comment on the fact that "Your opportunities might be very different from ours, especially if pharmacy is primarily an undergraduate degree in CA, and considering the motivations for pharmacuetical care (govt, industry, insurance, workforce models, etc are all different)."

I too am interested to learn about how pharmacy is represented in Canada. I assume it's pretty different from the United States. And no one is making judgement calls. JD's just curious.

 

[laura_mideon]

I too am interested to learn about how pharmacy is represented in Canada. I assume it's pretty different from the United States.

Hi Amanda,

Well, like I said before, it's hard for me to compare because I am not very familiar with how pharmacy is represented in the United states. Obviously education wise it's different because we mainly stick to the Bachelor programs, but as to the differences of the field, I am not too sure.
I feel like all of the generalizations you guys on this forum speak about (about people thinking pharmacists are just pill counters who don't do that much patient care) are more prevalent here. It seems to me that alot of people don't realize that they can call/see their pharmacist to quick answers to medication related inquiries, they think they HAVE to see their doctor first. I know your health care system is quite different than ours and maybe that's why people are like that here.
If you mean how is pharmacy represented in our schools, I think it's okay based on our population. We have around 9 (maybe more) pharmacy schools, each taking about 140 - 160 people every year. I know we don't have as much of a pharmacy shortage as you guys do so that seems adequate to me.

Since we're talking about this, does anyone know about how many schools offer pharmacy/pharmD programs in the states? It seems like alot, I wonder why there is still such a shortage?

 

[tupac_don]

Sup there,

I am proably biased even though I am Canadian. But I think school in States is better for several reasons.

1) Better money
2) Finish faster pharm D =4 or 3 (if accellerate) in Canada = 6 years!!!!!
3) Much more job opportunity in states, both in # of employers and the type of employment. Job market is much more saturated in Canada.

 

[jdpharmd?]

Sup there,

I am proably biased even though I am Canadian. But I think school in States is better for several reasons.

1) Better money
2) Finish faster pharm D =4 or 3 (if accellerate) in Canada = 6 years!!!!!
3) Much more job opportunity in states, both in # of employers and the type of employment. Job market is much more saturated in Canada.

Do the 6 years in Canada include the pre-reqs or undergrad? For instance, most of my class will be in school 7 years total, with three of those being the actual pharmD program (all summer long too).