Keeping It Together in Grad School

[ZsMusings]

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[LivingOffLoans]

1. I keep a Word document on my desktop that has my daily schedule on it as far as a week or two in advance. That is the only way I remember to do things, because there is just so much between school, field placement, research, etc... I guess this could work on an iPhone, but I really don't like those.

2. Planning in advance (see above), starting all assignments early (and turning them in early if possible), getting as close to regular sleep hours as humanly possible, and eating a balanced diet.

3. For me, it is the evening. It is not uncommon for me to work on assignments from 8:00pm until 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, and then go to sleep listening to Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit. I really should practice what I preach better.

 

[Pragma]

1.How do you guys manage your schedules that include making sure your self care is in check??
2. What tips or tricks have you guys done that has helped you work more efficiently?
3. And just out of curiosity, when do you get most of your work done (morning, noon, or evening)?

1. Used a planner (old school, pen/paper). Never had problems, always had a pen.

2. To the extent possible, prioritize and use blocks of time to accomplish tasks. For example, I set aside several hours on Fridays to work on thesis writing when I was at that stage, because it gave me no excuse to work on anything else, seeing as I had the weekend to do other assignments.

3. Be prepared to be flexible with how you structure your time. You only take breaks, you almost never stop working sometimes 🙂

Sorry, I don't mean to scare you, but if you work anything less than 70-80 hours a week, you probably are going to take at least 6-7 years to get done, or will finish but have minimal additional accomplishments that will help you stand out for jobs (e.g., publications, presentations, networking to do additional clinical work, etc).

So what I am saying is that you should fit leisure/self-care/fun in where it works. If you value your workout and the rest of your schedule is crazy, maybe be sure to squeeze that in early in the AM before classes each day. If you really want to watch Monday Night Football, study in the morning. You'll have to make some sacrifices but with good time management, you'll get used to the pace and manage to feel sane. Be sure to get happy hour in there when you can, it helps.

 

[dumbledoresgirl]

Love this thread! Although it's getting me awfully nervous (i.e., if you're not working 70-80 hours a week you won't finish on time)...yikes!

 

[Pragma]

Love this thread! Although it's getting me awfully nervous (i.e., if you're not working 70-80 hours a week you won't finish on time)...yikes!

Well there are probably some exceptions to this, but at least in my PhD cohort, I really was the only one able to spend that much time working, and I was the only person who graduated within 5 years. Most people I know take 6-7 years, and I know one who is taking 8. But they had kids or got too stressed and needed to pace things out more.

 

[paramour]

Love this thread! Although it's getting me awfully nervous (i.e., if you're not working 70-80 hours a week you won't finish on time)...yikes!

You'll be fine. 👍 Just don't feed into the frenzy of other incoming students' anxiety. I've seen this happen multiple times. It can be both scary and amusing.

Of course, I also think we've had a few in recent cohorts who've taken the opposite approach and think they're untouchable (I'm waiting for that to land in a big fat fail as well).

If you do find yourself becoming overwhelmed, do something for yourself or take some time off (even if it is only a bit). There's always plenty of distractions if you need them (e.g., Cornfest, the beginning of the year picnic, etc.). 🙂

EDIT: FTR, most folks in our program DO NOT work those hours (and they still find plenty of time to barhop and waste away in front of the TV, take vacations, etc). 😉

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I can at least somewhat attest to Pragma's assertion: I opted for more lifestyle-friendly 40- and 50-hour work weeks throughout grad school, and it's ended up tacking just about 2 years onto my timeline (which, thankfully, is coming to an end this summer). It's a compromise I was willing to make, although in hindsight, the lost income/extra expenses were a bit rough (even in a funded program). Those who finished my program in the more traditional 5-6 years (including internship) did work longer hours than me, although I'm not sure what their averages came out to be (I would guess somewhere around 60 or 70).

Although keep in mind that the 70-80 hours aren't necessarily ALL going to be on campus and/or in an office somewhere. Lots of people opt to work mainly on campus because it forces them to buckle down and avoid distractions, but you'll likely be spreading those hours out to some degree across nights and weekends as well. Don't let that scare you, though, in that at least some of the time, you'll be doing work that you really enjoy. Also, even the people I know who graduated in 5-6 years seemed to thoroughly enjoy themselves outside of school (e.g., multiple day- and short weekend trips, happy hours, etc.). Proper time management, if effectively utilized, can be pretty amazing.

 

[Pragma]

I can at least somewhat attest to Pragma's assertion: I opted for more lifestyle-friendly 40- and 50-hour work weeks throughout grad school, and it's ended up tacking just about 2 years onto my timeline. It's a compromise I was willing to make, although in hindsight, the lost income/extra expenses were a bit rough (even in a funded program). Those who finished my program in the more traditional 5-6 years (including internship) did work longer hours than me, although I'm not sure what their averages came out to be (I would guess somewhere around 60 or 70).

Although keep in mind that the 70-80 hours aren't necessarily ALL going to be on campus and/or in an office somewhere. Lots of people opt to work mainly on campus because it forces them to buckle down and avoid distractions, but you'll likely be spreading those hours out to some degree across nights and weekends as well. Don't let that scare you, though, in that at least some of the time, you'll be doing work that you really enjoy.

When I started my program as a 22 year old, working 70-80 hours was busy, but I still had plenty of time to barhop, exercise, and have SOME social life. Just not as much as my friends who weren't in graduate school.

I certainly can understand wanting to take it a little slower to improve your overall quality of life, but AA does bring up the financial cost. My wife and I were not willing to waste any extra years in opportunity costs for my program. It was, get in, make sacrifices, and get it done. In hindsight, I am glad I did, because I am already sick of school and I did it in the minimal possible time. I have a nice job and income waiting for me now, while some people I know still haven't defended. On my pro/con list, making the time sacrifices earlier on definitely wins out. I

 

[erg923]

I did my Ph.D in 5 years as well. I was most def a "get in and get out" person. Lack of money (and I like to have money) and a wife with "baby fever" helped this timeline. 🙂

 

[awishingstar]

The best advice I got was to not give up hobbies and normal recreation/downtime when school starts. I have almost always had a bath in the evening with a fiction novel, and had a glass of wine with dinner, and went to the farmer's market on saturdays, and I didn't give those up just because I went into grad school! I think making time for that kind of thing provides an "anchor" for remembering that you still exist in real life

My cohort and I also made regular downtime plans together, drinks/appies nights, we went to a movie once, that kind of thing. Spouses/partners came sometimes but a lot of the time it was just us. It gave us a sense of community outside of the program and drastically reduced the snippy, competitive bastardism that happened in other cohorts.

 

[wigflip]

1. Used a planner...2. To the extent possible, prioritize and use blocks of time to accomplish tasks.

The people I know who got through in a reasonable amount of time and excelled (lots of pubs, grants, etc.) blocked out virtually every minute in some kind of planner. There was never any ambiguity about what they should be doing at any particular time. (On the other hand, they were both polyamorous young'uns with no responsibilities or attachments to others or responsibilities beyond school. No one making claims on their time beyond what they chose.)

 

[dumbledoresgirl]

You'll be fine. 👍 Just don't feed into the frenzy of other incoming students' anxiety. I've seen this happen multiple times. It can be both scary and amusing.

Of course, I also think we've had a few in recent cohorts who've taken the opposite approach and think they're untouchable (I'm waiting for that to land in a big fat fail as well).

If you do find yourself becoming overwhelmed, do something for yourself or take some time off (even if it is only a bit). There's always plenty of distractions if you need them (e.g., Cornfest, the beginning of the year picnic, etc.). 🙂

EDIT: FTR, most folks in our program DO NOT work those hours (and they still find plenty of time to barhop and waste away in front of the TV, take vacations, etc). 😉

 

[heshmonster]

1. I keep a Word document on my desktop that has my daily schedule on it as far as a week or two in advance. That is the only way I remember to do things, because there is just so much between school, field placement, research, etc... I guess this could work on an iPhone, but I really don't like those.

2. Planning in advance (see above), starting all assignments early (and turning them in early if possible), getting as close to regular sleep hours as humanly possible, and eating a balanced diet.

3. For me, it is the evening. It is not uncommon for me to work on assignments from 8:00pm until 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, and then go to sleep listening to Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit. I really should practice what I preach better.

Why in the world are you reading Hegel's POS? I thought psychologists were only interested in brain and behavior! 😏
I ask because I have a background in philosophy before clinical, and I had to read POS for a seminar in phenomenology. It was a rough/tough read. Furthermore, POS is available in audiobook? Fall asleep to soothing rain sounds, not sprawling triadic explorations of consciousness!

 

[Pragma]

The people I know who got through in a reasonable amount of time and excelled (lots of pubs, grants, etc.) blocked out virtually every minute in some kind of planner. There was never any ambiguity about what they should be doing at any particular time. (On the other hand, they were both polyamorous young'uns with no responsibilities or attachments to others or responsibilities beyond school. No one making claims on their time beyond what they chose.)

every minute? Well that's harsh - I'd say a planner is useful as long as you use to to hold yourself accountable. But if it becomes something that makes you completely inflexible, then it might do more harm than good! EDIT: I do remember one person I knew who blocked off "Spontaneous time" on their planner, so yes, I agree it can be a humorous problem!

To the poster who said do things with your classmates - totally. Happy hour, parties, whatever you can do to unwind. Makes spending so much time together more tolerable and builds better relationships (I think)

 

[paramour]

Seriously. I hear you can get like a dozen different types of corn... FOR FREE. I really should try it one year. I love me some corn on the cob.

 

[Pragma]

EDIT: FTR, most folks in our program DO NOT work those hours (and they still find plenty of time to barhop and waste away in front of the TV, take vacations, etc). 😉

Do they have assistantships? Clinical practica? Because for me, those two activities took up at least 40 hours per week before I even hit coursework, comps, thesis, teaching, conferences, department meetings, etc...

Also not sure where people get the $ for vacations, but that would have been nice too.

 

[paramour]

Do they have assistantships? Clinical practica? Because for me, those two activities took up at least 40 hours per week before I even hit coursework, comps, thesis, teaching, conferences, department meetings, etc...

Also not sure where people get the $ for vacations, but that would have been nice too.

I was referring to the 70+ as quoted previously. There are few of us who work those hours. Otherwise, everyone's funded in our program, except for the select few students over the course of time who have declined it for various reasons. Funding usually comes via assistantships in one form or another. I can tell you that there are many students who do not work 40+ hours per week because they ignore a heck of a lot of what they should/could be doing. With some of them, I'd be amazed if they're even pushing 40...

Hell, I can't afford to go to a conference most the time. But for money, there are a number of students who are still being supported (quite well) by parents, lived local-ish (prior to being accepted) and have family support nearby so have "some" extra money with which to play around, and/or who are partnered with significant others who support them (some in addition to the families who also throw money at them). People are taking vacations every break we get. I'm obviously from the wrong income bracket.

 

[Pragma]

I was referring to the 70+ as quoted previously. There are few of us who work those hours. Otherwise, everyone's funded in our program, except for the select few students over the course of time who have declined it for various reasons. Funding usually comes via assistantships in one form or another. I can tell you that there are many students who do not work 40+ hours per week because they ignore a heck of a lot of what they should/could be doing. With some of them, I'd be amazed if they're even pushing 40...

Hell, I can't afford to go to a conference most the time. But for money, there are a number of students who are still being supported (quite well) by parents, lived local-ish (prior to being accepted) and have family support nearby so have "some" extra money with which to play around, and/or who are partnered with significant others who support them (some in addition to the families who also throw money at them). People are taking vacations every break we get. I'm obviously from the wrong income bracket.

Right, when you add all the other activities on top of the 40, you hit 70-80 (at least I did). Can't imagine ever having worked less and being able to complete program requirements, publish, etc. Plus - how many 20-hour/week assistantships ever end up being only 20 hours? I know some mentors are better than others, but I put in my fair share of +extra+ hours as a lowly grad student.

Yeah I knew a few folks who seemed to have everything paid for by parents. I certainly recall feeling frustrated working two jobs and finishing my thesis over the summer while they vacationed in Europe for two months and complained about how stressful the program was when they got back. But hey, that's the world we live in! Good for them.

 

[cara susanna]

Uhh, I have never counted my hours but I'm not sure I hit 70-80... I'm definitely not hitting that now during the summer. Then again I probably did hit that last semester, I was so busy.

Now I'm wondering if I'm slacking, haha.

 

[Pragma]

Uhh, I have never counted my hours but I'm not sure I hit 70-80... I'm definitely not hitting that now during the summer. Then again I probably did hit that last semester, I was so busy.

Now I'm wondering if I'm slacking, haha.

As I mentioned, you probably aren't slacking if you aren't on the 5-year PhD plan.

 

[Pragma]

I graduated in 5 years, was productive, and did not routinely work 70-80 hours per week. While there WERE some weeks that got busy where I did hit that, it was not a regular thing. My usual was 50-60. I think it really depends on the program and how you're funded.

Yeah, I can't imagine that ever being possible in my program. I was pretty efficient and knew how to cut corners, but I also was doing things I didn't need to (building up several extra pubs on my CV, teaching extra for more $). Still, 50-60 hours a week would have felt pretty tame.

Or perhaps you are ridiculously efficient 👍

 

[cara susanna]

I'll be taking 6 years (well, if I get matched my first try, which I can't count on)! Still, I know people who are applying for internship their 4th year and they don't work 70-80 hours. Then again, my program isn't hugely research-focused so most of these people don't have publications.

I've also gotten pretty good at delegating research duties to other people and collaborating so I don't have to do as much work. Plus I'm a ridiculously fast writer. 😉

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I'll be taking 6 years (well, if I get matched my first try, which I can't count on)! Still, I know people who are applying for internship their 4th year and they don't work 70-80 hours. Then again, my program isn't hugely research-focused so most of these people don't have publications.

I've also gotten pretty good at delegating research duties to other people and collaborating so I don't have to do as much work. Plus I'm a ridiculously fast writer. 😉

At least in my program, it's definitely the extra research participation that ends up increasing students' average work load. For those who don't actively participate in much more than the minimum required research (which included me during one or two of my years), they generally don't work much more than 40-50 hours/week and are able to get through relatively quickly. For those who decide to pump out extra papers and conduct studies, the work load ends up closer to probably 60 hours/week and the average time to completion is much closer to 6 years than 5.

 

[Pragma]

At least in my program, it's definitely the extra research participation that ends up increasing students' average work load. For those who don't actively participate in much more than the minimum required research (which included me during one or two of my years), they generally don't work much more than 40-50 hours/week and are able to get through relatively quickly. For those who decide to pump out extra papers and conduct studies, the work load ends up closer to probably 60 hours/week and the average time to completion is much closer to 6 years than 5.

I guess I just fail to see how someone could have a 20 hour practicum, a 20 hour assistantship (both of which could easily go over and create close to a 50 hour week), then add in classes, studying for classes, writing your thesis, and perhaps doing some independent scholarly work (e.g., grant, getting a poster together, or writing a manuscript), and somehow work for 50 or even 60 hours in a week. But I guess that's just me and perhaps some programs are more leniant about how much time you actually spend at a practicum site or on your assistantship.

Either way, I'm glad it is over.

 

[Ollie123]

20 hour/week unpaid practica aren't standard everywhere.

While there are some exceptions, generally speaking of someone in my program is going to commit 20 hours/week to a practicum site, there is the expectation that they will pay the person and that IS the assistantship. Unpaid externships are usually more like 8 hours/week, though the more clinically-focused folks often do several at once (this is also on top of the school clinic, though that is usually not many hours).

That said, no one gets out in 4+1 years here. 5+1 is the minimum, 6+1 is the average, and 7 is not at all uncommon (though I've never heard of someone staying longer unless they had to take a leave, etc.).

 

[Pragma]

Yeah I am not familiar with getting paid for practicum, at least until you have done 3 already. That's great if it works for folks. I am also used to research/ta assistantships being core to funding. So if a program operates differently I can see working less per week.

 

[cara susanna]

Yeah, we're paid for our practicum so if we get GTAs they're usually very few hours/week.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Yeah I am not familiar with getting paid for practicum, at least until you have done 3 already. That's great if it works for folks. I am also used to research/ta assistantships being core to funding. So if a program operates differently I can see working less per week.

Yep, as Ollie mentioned, in our program, the 20+ hour/week externships generally pay you and foot your tuition bill. For your first couple years while on a TA-ship, your clinical responsibilities (on my team) clock in closer to 12-16 hours/week, depending on how much you want to take on. I probably had more hours scheduled during my first 2-3 years between classes, TAing, and multiple non-paid practicums; for the next couple years, my schedule was technically less hectic (e.g., clinical externship for 20 hours instead of TAing), but I spent more time on technically-unscheduled activities like writing.

 

[Pragma]

Yep, as Ollie mentioned, in our program, the 20+ hour/week externships generally pay you and foot your tuition bill. For your first couple years while on a TA-ship, your clinical responsibilities (on my team) clock in closer to 12-16 hours/week, depending on how much you want to take on. I probably had more hours scheduled during my first 2-3 years between classes, TAing, and multiple non-paid practicums; for the next couple years, my schedule was technically less hectic (e.g., clinical externship for 20 hours instead of TAing), but I spent more time on technically-unscheduled activities like writing.

Interesting - I had not heard of that model for funding before. Of the people I have spoken with from other programs in my area, it sounded like people either a) were funded like I was (research assistantship) and did clinical work on top of it, or b) weren't funded, but had time to work outside of their program to make some money. In fact, externships are pretty competitive in my city - I'll have to see if I can find any funded ones out of curiosity.

I have a couple of questions, primarily for folks in PhD programs funded like this.

1) Where do faculty get their labor if they don't have grants?
2) Do you have an unpaid "research practicum" of sorts?

I ask the second question because if faculty are really only working with students on their theses/dissertations, and not on their larger projects, then it seems like they aren't getting as much out of the deal. Now, I could see the potential for them to get saucy and demand you volunteer for them to mentor you, and perhaps those boundaries/negotiations might be unclear (or just fine). How much time do you have to put into the lab outside of your own academic projects? In that sense, the fact that my program had uniform RA standards for graduate students sort of protected us.

Another thing I wonder about it how practicum sites pay students. Hourly? I know some trainee work can't be billed for. Do they provide tuition waivers through clinical work? The model seems like it could be a great timesaver for students in specific labs where there is clinical research going on (with patient care happening). But I also wonder - are you satisfied with your research opportunities?

For me, working half time for four years in my lab taught me tons of stuff (thesis and dissertation were separate endeavors). Yes it sounds like I had more required hours expected of me than some others, but it set me up well for an academic job. If I weren't ultimately wanting to do research (like some of my peers), it would have been torture but it paid the bills for them.

 

[Ollie123]

I think paid practica are more common in areas where they aren't as competitive. Ours started disappearing once Argosy opened up nearby and flooded the market with students who would work for free.

To clarify - its not like EVERYONE is funded on clinical placements here. Its still a minority, but I think most people do 1-2 across their time in the program. We're a clinical science, PCSAS-accredited program so it is incredibly research-heavy, though it seems the younger students are a bit more clinical leaning than past cohorts have been. Research opportunities are abundant though...I think the average number of pubs for students leaving is around 7, with some having many more than that. I'm exceptionally research-focused (plus may be one of the 7+1ers...still deciding), but should have 12-15 pubs, 30-40 presentations and a grant or two by the time I'm out (NIH didn't pan out but hopefully the other ones I'm submitting will!). To answer your questions directly:

1) Grad students (well, and undergrad RAs of course).
2) Some research practica exist (and some of the paid clinical placements offer research opportunities as well), but we're a mentor model so people are generally working in their advisors lab regardless of whether they are funded there or not.

Looking back at it, I realize my post above may have been misleading - mine wasn't really directed towards hours, I was just intending to call attention to the fact that unpaid 20 hour week practica are uncommon for us and your estimates seemed to assume all schools operated like that. I'm actually a bit confused by some pieces of your post...the reason they are uncommon is they want us spending MORE time on research, not less. I actually had the opposite reaction - I'm curious how YOU managed to get research done when you were doing 20 hours/week of unpaid practicum (though I guess this explains the 80 hour weeks). Rather than a 20 hour/week practica plus teaching, we would get paid for that 20 hours of practica and then not have to teach....or teach but (most likely) only do 4-8 hours per week of practica. Students on grants might get some hours there, do a small 4-8 hour practica, and spend the rest of the time doing extra research. RA funding frequently involved some components of clinical work. For example, I have roughly 200 hours in the lab between therapy on research protocols, and assessments for grant-funded studies (on top of tons of pubs/posters). A fair number of us are funded on grants, though this number has shrunk as the grants game has gotten tighter the last couple years. In the case of clinical/teaching placements though, the expectation is that all remaining waking hours are dedicated to research🙂 There are still a couple labs where students can get away with not doing much beyond the thesis/dissertation (largely those with the semi-retired faculty who are hold-overs from before we became a clinical science program) but for the most part that doesn't fly here.

 

[cara susanna]

We don't have research assistantships for clinical students because they're given primarily to the experimental people. As for where faculty get their labor, well, students do it for publication opportunities. But my program doesn't have as many active labs as most do. Third and fourth year we're funded via practicum only. Which sucks because most of them pay terribly and we don't get any benefits, haha.

 

[Pragma]

I'm actually a bit confused by some pieces of your post...the reason they are uncommon is they want us spending MORE time on research, not less. I actually had the opposite reaction - I'm curious how YOU managed to get research done when you were doing 20 hours/week of unpaid practicum (though I guess this explains the 80 hour weeks).

Yeah, it does explain those 80 hour weeks. People in my program had 20 hour weekly assistantships across the board. Sometimes during the first year, people might divvy up that time in a research lab and perhaps TAing a course or two, but after the first year, generally people are fully in their lab (mentorship model) for the 20 hours per week. It's decided in part by funding, as the department helps some of the faculty who don't have large grants to give them graduate student support. Now, everyone also engaged in their own thesis and dissertation research as well, on top of these hours. The practica are a requirement for APA accreditation, internship, etc...you have to do them and they are too competitive in my city to be funded I guess.

The way you describe it, I could see how you do even more research if it isn't capped at 20 hours per week mandated + your own academic activities, but I'd mention that more research-oriented folks in my program often did the same thing as you describe (work every waking moment). That's actually why I was saying that you need to put in the time to get extra pubs and such. As a result of working 80 hour weeks, I was able to graduate with similar productivity to what you described (>15 pubs and some other material to write up/submit before postdoc). Some of that certainly was lab-dependent though, and plenty of people in my program only published minimally if they were more clinically-oriented. I'd describe my program as balanced, with your mentor match determining how much research you did beyond the requirements. Several of my publications were a direct result of my paid lab work.

Rather than a 20 hour/week practica plus teaching, we would get paid for that 20 hours of practica and then not have to teach....or teach but (most likely) only do 4-8 hours per week of practica. Students on grants might get some hours there, do a small 4-8 hour practica, and spend the rest of the time doing extra research.

We did 20 weekly hours of paid research and 20 hours of unpaid practicum every year. teaching was done in addition to those hours. For example, in my fourth year, I did a 20 hour practicum (unpaid), a 20 hour research assistantship (paid), taught a course each term (paid and optional), and finished my dissertation before doing internship my 5th year. While that was heavy, that year I was done with my own coursework so I didn't have to study on top of the load. It actually seemed a little easier than the year before, although first preps for teaching were time consuming.

The short (e.g., 4-8 hours/week) practica confuse me, but I assume it works somehow. It just seems like a small time commitment and inefficient to be able to get didactics, supervision, etc, but I also don't know much about it and am used to putting in all of those hours at one site per year, with all of the didactics/supervision/case conferences built into whatever program/site you were at. I don't know anyone that ever did anything different, so it is interesting to hear.

RA funding frequently involved some components of clinical work. For example, I have roughly 200 hours in the lab between therapy on research protocols, and assessments for grant-funded studies (on top of tons of pubs/posters).

Yeah that seems like a great way to double-dip. I never provided direct clinical care in my research activities, but that seems like a very efficient way to get hours AND research experience.

I recognize that this has deviated from the OPs post a bit, but perhaps this discussion might shed light onto how variable the programs out there are, and might give some readers ideas about questions to ask. It's funny, because I sort of blindly assumed that most funded, "balanced" PhD programs operated similarly to mine, but money is an odd thing 🙂

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Interesting - I had not heard of that model for funding before. Of the people I have spoken with from other programs in my area, it sounded like people either a) were funded like I was (research assistantship) and did clinical work on top of it, or b) weren't funded, but had time to work outside of their program to make some money. In fact, externships are pretty competitive in my city - I'll have to see if I can find any funded ones out of curiosity.

I have a couple of questions, primarily for folks in PhD programs funded like this.

1) Where do faculty get their labor if they don't have grants?
2) Do you have an unpaid "research practicum" of sorts?

I ask the second question because if faculty are really only working with students on their theses/dissertations, and not on their larger projects, then it seems like they aren't getting as much out of the deal. Now, I could see the potential for them to get saucy and demand you volunteer for them to mentor you, and perhaps those boundaries/negotiations might be unclear (or just fine). How much time do you have to put into the lab outside of your own academic projects? In that sense, the fact that my program had uniform RA standards for graduate students sort of protected us.

Another thing I wonder about it how practicum sites pay students. Hourly? I know some trainee work can't be billed for. Do they provide tuition waivers through clinical work? The model seems like it could be a great timesaver for students in specific labs where there is clinical research going on (with patient care happening). But I also wonder - are you satisfied with your research opportunities?

For me, working half time for four years in my lab taught me tons of stuff (thesis and dissertation were separate endeavors). Yes it sounds like I had more required hours expected of me than some others, but it set me up well for an academic job. If I weren't ultimately wanting to do research (like some of my peers), it would have been torture but it paid the bills for them.

I'll do my best to answer your questions, at least as they pertain to my program. My situation might be slightly different, as it's a state flagship institution, one of the only such large colleges in the state, and one of the only APA accredited programs in the state. Thus, we may have gotten a lot of "special treatment" owing to the college having legislated itself into a hugely powerful position with respect to psych (and other) training...that is, regardless of where you were training or what you were training in, odds are the university was somehow involved.

Our dept does have RAships for faculty with grants, yes. If they don't have grants and the students are primarily conducting research, then the students usually get a TAship and end up doing their clinical work as an unpaid practicum. Funded externships also went through the university by and large, which is how tuition remission and in-state tuition status were granted. There is one exception I can think of, and students at that site I believe are paid a bit more to compensate.

We sort of do have unpaid research practicums. If you aren't on a TA/RAship, you're still expected to do research; we have "independent research" classes that you can sign up for, and at least on my team, clinical and research work was often handled in/around the same supervision meetings (other labs worked differently, though). All in all, though, there's nothing you HAVE to sign up for to be doing research. We work in a full mentor model, so basically if your advisor is ok with what you're doing, you're set.

One other note about unpaid practica: my program is lucky/weird in that we have a LOT of externship sites available, many of which don't offer funding. Thus, it's very common for a student to, for example, be teaching or TAing for funding, seeing clients at the university clinic or their advisor's practice, and then spending a day or half-day per week at one or two separate externship sites (e.g., psych inpatient, forensic inpatient, inpatient/outpatient substance abuse) depending on personal interests. The mentor model works in here as well. We don't have to go through the department (most times) to work at externship sites. We just tell our mentor, contact the site supervisor and see if they have a spot, and then go for it.

 

[Pragma]

We just tell our mentor, contact the site supervisor and see if they have a spot, and then go for it.

That's pretty cool - gives you some freedom. We did have to have ours approved by the DCT, and they are primarily concerned with external sites meeting department standards in terms of supervision, hours, didactics, etc (in order for them to count towards our degree).

Thanks for sharing all of these details. I find it really interesting to see what different departments do, what works well, what doesn't work so well, etc. I think if the option had been available for people to be paid for externship instead of their research assistantship hours, several folks in my program would have preferred that setup.

At least for me, in my own schema of what was important, I always prioritized what I was paid for (which in an RAship overlapped with my academic milestones). While I worked hard in clinical practica, I was not willing to go above and beyond or sacrifice other things for the practica. That may have been different if they paid me. I'm wondering if my program did it the other way (fund research instead of practica) in order to make certain that faculty get a captive audience, as I could have seen several more clinically-oriented students neglecting their research duties if they were not paid for them.

 

[paramour]

Right, when you add all the other activities on top of the 40, you hit 70-80 (at least I did). Can't imagine ever having worked less and being able to complete program requirements, publish, etc. Plus - how many 20-hour/week assistantships ever end up being only 20 hours? I know some mentors are better than others, but I put in my fair share of +extra+ hours as a lowly grad student.

Yeah I knew a few folks who seemed to have everything paid for by parents. I certainly recall feeling frustrated working two jobs and finishing my thesis over the summer while they vacationed in Europe for two months and complained about how stressful the program was when they got back. But hey, that's the world we live in! Good for them.

I started to go into how our funding is structured & how those issues contribute to hours in my previous post but then deleted it because it seemed a bit much... But then I see it came up anyway.

We actually have a number of assistantships (not all, but some) where folks don't end up working the full 20. TA's usually work the full 20. "Most" RA's are taken full advantage of (some more than others; I ended up stuck in a lab where I was working anywhere from 40-60 hours/week just for my RA position quite a bit). Many students are also funded with practicum positions, and these positions are ones that often vary on whether you actually work the full 20. Some work the full 20; others are infamous for working 1 day per work and although they may work a fairly full day, it's certainly not 20 hours of work.

As for the parental funding issue, I don't think it's usually a big deal around here for most folks until you start to have people rub it in other people's faces and then also (as you mentioned) complain that they don't have enough allowance to buy the latest umpteen hundred dollar Coach bag or pair of shoes until next week or the following. When people wonder how they're going to pay their rent and your parents bought you a house (not uncommon), then I think you probably should find someone else to complain to about your lack of shoes & purses. Not the single parent trying to raise children on his own and wondering how he's going to make everything work...

Interesting - I had not heard of that model for funding before. Of the people I have spoken with from other programs in my area, it sounded like people either a) were funded like I was (research assistantship) and did clinical work on top of it, or b) weren't funded, but had time to work outside of their program to make some money. In fact, externships are pretty competitive in my city - I'll have to see if I can find any funded ones out of curiosity.

I have a couple of questions, primarily for folks in PhD programs funded like this.

1) Where do faculty get their labor if they don't have grants?

2) Do you have an unpaid "research practicum" of sorts?

We have this funding structure (which, again, I started to go into previously but presumed it was common, so I didn't!).

Our structure is usually the following:
- Most first years are TAs with usually one or two RAs per cohort.
- Second years, usually more RAs but there are still more than plenty TAs.
- Third years, again, mostly TAs and RAs (although the TA positions often expand past Intro to Psych at this point).
- Fourth years+ start to receive funding through paid clinical practicum for their assistantships. However, even all the advanced students aren't receiving those anymore due to issues with sites dropping in the area. Even though we're in the 'burbs, PsyD students have been making the commute to "volunteer" their time. Sites no longer want to pay us when they can get someone else to do it for free. Then, there are some of these (and other sites) who have simply lost funding, so no money, no sites. This pretty much sucks when your clinical experience is contingent upon these positions; there's nothing available; and you have faculty who play favorites with this BS. (There was quite the ruckus at the end of this previous year when a few sites decided they wanted to interview students and make decisions themselves. Although the faculty claimed that they could still overturn it... Again, it's a bunch of crap.) So, now we have a few more students "volunteering" (or attempting to whenever possible) at sites for unpaid positions on top of their paid assistantship (whatever it may be), but it takes an act of Congress to get the dept to approve it.

For research, since we still have paid RA positions available, faculty still has labor aplenty (usually from earlier cohorts). Additionally, many students end up working on "extra" projects for their faculty members even if they're not RA's. Extra = more free labor for the faculty. Sometimes students will also sign up for independent study hours to do this (although often times, this is for the students' own projects, it sometimes has to do with the faculty's work). Faculty members' also usually have a number of undergrad RA's working for them (which is free!).

Another thing I wonder about it how practicum sites pay students. Hourly? I know some trainee work can't be billed for. Do they provide tuition waivers through clinical work? The model seems like it could be a great timesaver for students in specific labs where there is clinical research going on (with patient care happening). But I also wonder - are you satisfied with your research opportunities?

Practicum sites are paid just as any other funded position. Everyone who accepts a funded position receives a tuition waiver, and everyone receives the same stipend paid bimonthly. It doesn't matter how many hours you end up working.

I think paid practica are more common in areas where they aren't as competitive. Ours started disappearing once Argosy opened up nearby and flooded the market with students who would work for free.

To clarify - its not like EVERYONE is funded on clinical placements here. Its still a minority, but I think most people do 1-2 across their time in the program. We're a clinical science, PCSAS-accredited program so it is incredibly research-heavy, though it seems the younger students are a bit more clinical leaning than past cohorts have been. Research opportunities are abundant though...I think the average number of pubs for students leaving is around 7, with some having many more than that. I'm exceptionally research-focused (plus may be one of the 7+1ers...still deciding), but should have 12-15 pubs, 30-40 presentations and a grant or two by the time I'm out (NIH didn't pan out but hopefully the other ones I'm submitting will!). To answer your questions directly:

^^ This. We used to have paid clinical practica without any issues, but as Ollie mentioned, due to the nearby professional folks starting to encroach on our territory (so to speak), we're losing them and students are lucky to get maybe 1/2 paid clinical opportunities (although, again, we have "favorites" who get 3+ opportunities, whereas others are told they're stuck with 1 regardless of their hours--yes, I admit being bitter here ). The prof folks come from a large enough area where many think that are places aplenty for them to choose, but they have a lovely match process that's considered pretty darned competitive. If they don't match, where else are they to go? They drop off the face of the earth because they couldn't hack it, right? Oh, wait, they travel 1-2 hours outside of the city and take our sites. No one saw that coming... 🙄

 

[Pragma]

Does anyone happen to know if it was typical for externships to be paid, say 10-20 years ago, before the field was as saturated as it is? I guess I wonder if it represents a major shift, or just something that a few pockets of the country have noticed change in.

I wonder because on general principle, I always accepted the fact that I was receiving training, supervision, didactics, etc...which were required to graduate and get an internship...in exchange for my clinical service. It never bothered me not to be paid when I knew that it was part of my program requirements.

On the other hand, I think some faculty would have really struggled without the paid RAships. That provided motivated graduate students for faculty members. Some folks, like my own mentor, had grants and paid their own RA staff, with grad students as icing on the cake. But some newer faculty or faculty without a "machine" in place yet really needed those students. Take away paid RAships, and I doubt many people would have volunteered a significant amount of time to help out, aside from the minimum amount needed to keep their thesis advisors.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Does anyone happen to know if it was typical for externships to be paid, say 10-20 years ago, before the field was as saturated as it is? I guess I wonder if it represents a major shift, or just something that a few pockets of the country have noticed change in.

I wonder because on general principle, I always accepted the fact that I was receiving training, supervision, didactics, etc...which were required to graduate and get an internship...in exchange for my clinical service. It never bothered me not to be paid when I knew that it was part of my program requirements.

On the other hand, I think some faculty would have really struggled without the paid RAships. That provided motivated graduate students for faculty members. Some folks, like my own mentor, had grants and paid their own RA staff, with grad students as icing on the cake. But some newer faculty or faculty without a "machine" in place yet really needed those students. Take away paid RAships, and I doubt many people would have volunteered a significant amount of time to help out, aside from the minimum amount needed to keep their thesis advisors.

I can ask some of my former supervisors what things were like when they trained, although I wouldn't be surprised if the paid externship options are a lot more plentiful nowadays than 20 years ago. Many of our paid externships, for example, have lines of funding via government grants that might not have existed a few decades back. Additionally, psychologists are simply located in more places nowadays, so that alone could increase practicum placements.

I really don't know what the norm is nationwide currently, but it'd be interesting to find out. Like you, until the past year or two, I'd always thought that my program's approach was pretty typical. It wasn't until I started posting at SDN more frequently that I learned, for example, that students in many other programs have to formally apply for practicum placements/externships.

Getting back to an earlier point you'd mentioned re: externships, I do believe at some point our DCT approved all of our training sites. Although that process, like most other things at our program, seemed to be somewhat informal (e.g., I know of at least 2-3 new sites that were started up in the course of my training, and the approval process didn't seem to involve much formal paperwork at all).

I should also note that even if a practicum site was technically clinical, the supervisors were still usually pretty heavily into research, and often requested/expected that we participate on new projects. Gave us access to some pretty unique populations (e.g., low-income, predominantly minority, and HIV+ or with multiple other often poorly-controlled health issues; forensic pre-trial inpatient; etc.).

 

[Pragma]

Practicum sites are paid just as any other funded position. Everyone who accepts a funded position receives a tuition waiver, and everyone receives the same stipend paid bimonthly. It doesn't matter how many hours you end up working.

So are these on-site places, or has your program negotiated these things in advance with external sites?

I just imagine my own externship sites being asked to provide tuition waivers, and I envision a lot of laughter at that prospect.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

So are these on-site places, or has your program negotiated these things in advance with external sites?

I just imagine my own externship sites being asked to provide tuition waivers, and I envision a lot of laughter at that prospect.

I can't answer for paramour, but my program works similarly. The funded clinical placements we have are off-site, and have been negotiated with the university in advance. In general, the funding tends to come through training grants, so the money's there regardless of how many patients we do or don't see. Thus, if the supervisor doesn't have any students, he/she just scales back the number of referrals they take in; conversely, if there are 5 or 6 students around, the supervisor makes a trip around the hospital and reminds physicians about the service to ramp up referrals.

The difference between paramour's program and mine is that with us, not all off-site placements pay the same as TAships, and TAships don't pay the same as RAships. It's a matter of where your funding is coming from, and how much funding there actually is. The bonus to the off-site clinical placements is that they're year-round, whereas TAships and teaching only pay for 9 months. There are on-site jobs available through the university clinic during the summer which pays hourly, though, to help offset some of that.

 

[Jimmer13]

I highly recommend the book "How to Write a Lot: A Practical Guide to Productive Academic Writing"

I find that by staying on top of writing assignments I can reduce a great deal of the stress that I encounter.

 

[futurepsydoc]

1.How do you guys manage your schedules that include making sure your self care is in check??

2. What tips or tricks have you guys done that has helped you work more efficiently?

3. And just out of curiosity, when do you get most of your work done (morning, noon, or evening)?

Congratulations on your acceptance and good luck as you begin your program. I am sure you will do well. Kudos to you for asking these sorts of questions.

1. I managed my schedule using a day planner. I suggest using a pencil, as many appointments will get rescheduled. Faculty members are busy and will often shift things around on you - don't take it personally. As for self-care, I gave myself one fun night off and one full day off every week - Saturday night (e.g., dinner and/or drinks with friends) and all day Sunday to be exact (i.e., GOLF or watching football on TV with friends). Don't get me wrong, I did things throughout the week as well (i.e. exercise, lunch with friends, etc), but I did not give away Saturday nights or Sundays unless I had an exam that Monday or something that was extremely pressing. I protected these times as best I could.

2. Each semester, I tried mightily to create as much structure as possible, blocking off times to do specific tasks. As I got used to the workload, I found that it was important to complete assignments in the time I carved out. This was not incredibly easy early on, especially when I wanted to be thorough and display my competence to professors, advisers, and supervisors. Yet, perfectionism and/or obsessing over details (i.e., we are all overachievers no?) could turn a simple assignment into a thesis if I was not careful, so I learned to accept that "good enough" is not a bad thing or bad way to look at certain things. To note, I put far more effort into my clinical work (i.e., ethically I think this is crucial given the impact we have on our patients and our commitment to do no harm), then my research, with coursework coming in a distant third. Learning to prioritize is critical. Think of work/assignments like triaging in medicine.

3. I am night owl, so I did my best work at night. I like it then because it is quieter, people are less apt to call/disrupt you, and I did not have an impending meeting that would disrupt my train of thought.

I hope this information is helpful. Again, congratulations and good luck.

 

[PsychPhDone]

I wanted some advice on time management, organization of multiple responsibilities, and nixing procrastination in grad school. I am about to start a PhD program and really want to develop some great skills to make my life as least stressful or chaotic as it has to be.

I want to have a decent work-life balance. I want to keep up my healthy eating/preparing my own meals, exercising 5 times a week, watching bad TV, etc once I start in the Fall while giving my school stuff it's needed attention.

1.How do you guys manage your schedules that include making sure your self care is in check??
2. What tips or tricks have you guys done that has helped you work more efficiently?
3. And just out of curiosity, when do you get most of your work done (morning, noon, or evening)?

Google Calendar is my friend. I have different calendars for different obligations (social/personal, classes, teaching, clinical, research). I have daily to do lists, and if I'm especially stressed and/or busy, I micromanage (i.e., schedule activities by the half hour). I do this the night before. I include breaks and make an effort to schedule in self-care activities so even if I don't spontaneously schedule anything, which sometimes happen, I'm at least doing something not-work related on a regular basis.

I find that breaking tasks down into manageable chunks is the best strategy to help me be productive. "How to Write a lot" was mentioned and I recommend it, too.

We don't have paid practica here. I'm paid for teaching and do maybe 5-8 clinical hours/week in my practicum. Research time is on me to make happen. I have health-related obligations that eat up a fair amount of time each week but I make work happen when I have to. You have to figure out what works best for you. What works best for me is planning using achievable goals and social motivation (work dates are popular in my program, it's more fun to work with a friend over a latte, trust me).

 

[erg923]

The mention of people "scheduling" self-care activities, or "fun," is amusing to me...

 

[Pragma]

The mention of people "scheduling" self-care activities, or "fun," is amusing to me...

Hey, not everyone has a cushy VA schedule 🙂 I kid, I kid...

Are you suggesting that there is enough time to be spontaneous about things like working out and hobbies? Because I certainly had to plan times to exercise and other events in grad school. The default was to be working. Sometimes I did things like buy concert or sports tickets well in advance to make sure I made it work.

Aside from spontaneous laughter, don't we all "schedule" fun to some extent?

 

[Mianess]

The mention of people "scheduling" self-care activities, or "fun," is amusing to me...

When I think of "scheduling self care", all I can think of is, "At 9:30am take a shower"

In all seriousness, I think it's easy for people to put off doing things for themselves (like reading, watching a movie, etc.) so scheduling it and treating it as if it is an appointment can help you stick to it.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Hey, not everyone has a cushy VA schedule 🙂 I kid, I kid...

Are you suggesting that there is enough time to be spontaneous about things like working out and hobbies? Because I certainly had to plan times to exercise and other events in grad school. The default was to be working. Sometimes I did things like buy concert or sports tickets well in advance to make sure I made it work.

Aside from spontaneous laughter, don't we all "schedule" fun to some extent?

I am/was the same way with many activities, at least in a very general sense--I plan my gym sessions in advance and keep them consistent week-to-week based on what I know is most compatible with being productive for me; the other interns and I will frequently "schedule" happy hour or other outings a day or two in advance; etc. I also definitely have a vague schedule of blocks of free time and blocks of work time for myself (e.g., when I get home from work and until I finish eating = work time, and after that = free time).

 

[Pragma]

I am/was the same way with many activities, at least in a very general sense--I plan my gym sessions in advance and keep them consistent week-to-week based on what I know is most compatible with being productive for me; the other interns and I will frequently "schedule" happy hour or other outings a day or two in advance; etc. I also definitely have a vague schedule of blocks of free time and blocks of work time for myself (e.g., when I get home from work and until I finish eating = work time, and after that = free time).

Working while you eat?! That's blasphemous!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Working while you eat?! That's blasphemous!

Haha depends on the day. Sometimes I work, and sometimes my "work" entails watching re-runs of Scrubs or How I Met Your Mother on Netflix. Since defending my dissertation a couple weeks back, it's definitely been more of the latter than the former of late.

 

[Pragma]

Haha depends on the day. Sometimes I work, and sometimes my "work" entails watching re-runs of Scrubs or How I Met Your Mother on Netflix. Since defending my dissertation a couple weeks back, it's definitely been more of the latter than the former of late.

Congratulations! That's awesome...sounds like it went well!

 

[Groupthink]

Hearing about these 80 hour work weeks terrifies me.

Everything I read in this thread is basically how I lived my undergraduate life. I could take screenshots of my phone calendar from months ago: every minute was blocked off and there was almost no time for recreation or self-care, as people here put it.

I don't mean to sound haughty, but I am legitimately worried. All the work I put in for undergrad was worth it, coming out of undergrad with several authorships and presentations, a near perfect GPA, and several awards. Yet, it was all that at sacrifice of any time for myself.

All my professors told me, "If you think you work hard now, just wait until graduate school. You won't have time to sleep." Either they didn't know just how much I worked during undergrad, or this is legitimately true.

This is what makes me worried. One of my friends once told me, "Groupthink, you are neither a genius nor of above-average intelligence. You are simply the hardest worker I have ever seen, and it is quite commendable." I wasn't sure if that was a compliment or an insult...

Anyway, I digress. I work hard, and I'm good at working hard. Yet if hard work meant many hours in undergrad, and graduate life is supposed to be even more difficult, then is my ability to just work hard (but perhaps not work intelligently) going to be my downfall in my doctoral program?

They say the GREs predict efficacy and likelihood to succeed in a graduate program, and I did fairly poorly on them, so maybe I am in for a boatload of troubles...