Kerry's impact on MDs

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I cannot get over the amount of people that support kerry. As MD's we should be worried about our value of the years of our education, time, and return on investment we have in our education(undergrad, med school, residency, fellow)

Kerry would lower the quility of our practice and our prof. I would of though that more MD's woud be supporting Bush and securing thier lifestyle.
 
endodoc said:
You either work for the liberal freak Edwards(the old lady) or you have to much time to write a book on this thread.

What you should do is go help a doctor, isn't that what a CRNA does, or at least it should. If you read, I say "help," not due what a doctor does. That is the probelm in your field. Want want want want want want, more power and duties. If your field wants do much, go to med school and you can due due due due all you want. Maybe that way you would know why so many people are not happy with you on this thread, until you pay mal practice you will never get it.

i think you mean do do do 😛
 
smkoepke said:
i think you mean do do do 😛
You all get my point. I am a doctor, not a Eng. teacher. Those who teach, cannot do..
 
For the first time in its history, the medical board has endorsed a political candidate. It agrees with Bush's views on medical liability reform and says that Bush has tried several times to introduce laws that would help the crisis.

Kerry on the other hand has voted 10 times to block reform and one of the main reasons is because trial lawyers fund the Kerry campaign. The audio below has the interview with a member of the medical board in which she discusses her reasons why the medical board of Pennsylvania has endorsed Bush.

The facts are clear: if you're a physician who has medical liability reform as one of your top issues, vote for Bush. If you're a trial lawyer, vote for Kerry.

http://www.georgewbush.com/audio/mehlman_080904_256k.mp3

Audio taken from http://www.georgewbush.com/VideoAndAudio/Default.aspx and it is found on the right side.
 
endodoc said:
I cannot get over the amount of people that support kerry. As MD's we should be worried about our value of the years of our education, time, and return on investment we have in our education(undergrad, med school, residency, fellow)

Kerry would lower the quility of our practice and our prof. I would of though that more MD's woud be supporting Bush and securing thier lifestyle.

Let's be serious now! I for one don't forsee physicians in this country ever struggling to make ends meet because of economic hardships at any point in my lifetime. Yes med school and college were expensive and residency is going to be a pain, but we all knew what we were getting into and no one has a vendetta out against MDs.

2ndly you must have all forgotten that in our system of government the chief executive doesn't have absolute power and can't get much done without congressional approval, so some of your arguements about who's gonna do what to the medical community are exaggerations.

jwk said:
Let's not forget that some people are just too lazy or stupid to properly take care of themselves, or they just don't give a sh** about themselves or the people around them.

Witness the idiots in Florida last week. There are mandatory evacuations because of the hurricane 2 full days before it hits land, yet there are these idiots on TV saying "...we only had one hour warning that it was going to hit and now we've lost everything...". I don't know about you, but there's a limit to the amount of sympathy that I can muster.

What the hell are you talking about?

What do hurricaines in Florida have to do with the unacceptable number of Americans that don't have access to adequate healthcare? Most of these people (many of whom are children) are uninsured for reasons that are out of thier control. And when they do finally enter the medical system thier conditions are much more expensive, put much more burden on the system, and they end with significantly worse outcomes.

Your arguement is just dumb. The number of people who don't care about themselves or thier families is a lot lower than you are implying. This is not about sympathy, it's about what is right vs. what is wrong.

conservative said:
Here you go again. Once again you've been sucked in by the emotional rights vs. privilege argument. Healthcare is a privilege.

Most of the residents of my state overwhelmingly believe that healthcare is a right for all people. So do the citizens of every other industrialized nation in the world. This is not an emotional argument it's a matter of ideology I guess, but the only question I have to ask you conservative is: What would Jesus say?

"You should only heal those that can afford to pay you large sums of shekels."

I don't think so.
 
this may not really apply directing to the discussion..
but , the people who get the best and complete workup/health care are the poor. at my hospital and i'm sure at many others, poor people who have medicaid get the gold workup. my father and myself, being in middle income, can not afford the echos/blood tests/surgeries that poor get .. or if we had to get them, our insurance preminums would rocket and wed be in heavy heavy debt.
in america, the very poor and the very rich get the best health care.
i know this may sound crude... but i wonder what it would be like if we took out a substantial amount of medicaid and redircted those funds towards middle income health care provided or at least subsidized by govt.
 
You aren't the only one who feels that way. There are almost 44million Americans including 8 million children, who don't get anything from either the govt. or insurance companies.
 
LuckyMD2b said:
You aren't the only one who feels that way. There are almost 44million Americans including 8 million children, who don't get anything from either the govt. or insurance companies.

PULEEEAAASE!!! Get your facts straight. When the statistics talk about the "insured", they do not include the numbers receiving MEDICAID. Your numbers will be quite a bit lower when you consider the percentage of those 44 million Americans that are receiving MEDICAID.

Beside the point, who deserves anything??? The last time I checked, I have to work for everything I get. I don't argue that I deserve anything. Who is it that decides who deserves what?!?!?!

Further, show me where it says that access to healthcare is a right. Not to mention that EVERYONE including illegal aliens has access to the ER where the patient can not be turned away until full treatment is received.
 
"Most of the residents of my state overwhelmingly believe that healthcare is a right for all people. So do the citizens of every other industrialized nation in the world. This is not an emotional argument it's a matter of ideology I guess, but the only question I have to ask you conservative is: What would Jesus say?"

"You should only heal those that can afford to pay you large sums of shekels."






I believe that the Democrats have our best interest at heart along with my belief in the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Ferry.
 
When I was moonlighting in the ER, it was always amazing to me to see the number of "unfortunate" people who couldn't afford health insurance....but who had money for Nike Air, polo jeans, cell phone, gold chains, cigarettes, and plenty of cash to send their cousin on a run to Burger King while they got their workup.
 
Leinie said:
When I was moonlighting in the ER, it was always amazing to me to see the number of "unfortunate" people who couldn't afford health insurance....but who had money for Nike Air, polo jeans, cell phone, gold chains, cigarettes, and plenty of cash to send their cousin on a run to Burger King while they got their workup.


I understand what you're saying. My wife is a special ed teacher in a very poor part of town and is amazed the same sort of thing. Parents drive up in Lincoln Navigators, or other big shiny suvs, dressed in polo, or tommy hilfiger, covered with gold and diamonds, yet their kids are all on free lunch and welfare. Hmm. Doesn't seem right my tax money is paying for their kids lunch and healthcare while they drive a hell of a lot nicer car than I do.
 
LuckyMD2b said:
You aren't the only one who feels that way. There are almost 44million Americans including 8 million children, who don't get anything from either the govt. or insurance companies.


Typical liberal. I bet you went to med school for free, since you were ?under privileged.? Go out and earn what you want. We are turning into a hand me something free society, because I am under privileged. Get your lazy butt out there and earn for what you deserve. Hard work equals a great return.

No one handed my ancestors what they had, or tried to claim they are a minority and need ?extra? help. Get of your liberal socialist soapbox, and deal with the real work-WORK
 
ether_screen said:
Put the lazy poor aside for a minute, and consider the single mother with several children who was laid off from her job due to cutbacks or others who need temporary assistance from some unfortunate event? Although there are those who abuse the system, does this mean that everyone who receives government assistance is lazy? I am sure at one time or another many of you proclaimed your desire to enter medicine was to help people; perhaps you should stop thinking from your wallet and revisit this idea. Please do not forget that lots of federal and state money goes into funding residency programs, thus you are receiving handouts as well as your salaries, benefits, ect. Surely, those of you fortunate enough to have made it this far could return a small portion of the favor.


Granted, entitlements idealistically should serve the purpose of helping people when they need help while they are doing everything they can to take care of themselves..

As for your argument, I am certain that my family and my wife's family have paid more than enough to cover my residency costs in taxes.
 
Leinie said:
When I was moonlighting in the ER, it was always amazing to me to see the number of "unfortunate" people who couldn't afford health insurance....but who had money for Nike Air, polo jeans, cell phone, gold chains, cigarettes, and plenty of cash to send their cousin on a run to Burger King while they got their workup.

While spending my month in the ER as an intern, I noticed the exact same thing. I have always felt that healthcare is a right and not a privilege but then I worked in the ER. I was amazed by all of the people who abuse the ER. What is worse is that people know that they cannot be turned away so they can come to the ER for whatever ails them, even if it is not an emergent problem. And most of the people we saw did not have health insurance and many stated that they could not afford the medication and wanted free samples. Yet, they had cigarettes in their pocket and wore brand name clothing. And then there were the huge numbers of illegal immigrants who did not speak any english seeking medical care and who had no insurance. It is a well known fact that the hospital could not go after these people, especially since many of them had fake social security numbers. These kinds of encounters are driving up our health care costs and forcing many hospitals to just eat the bill. It was very sad and disheartening to see this kind of thing going on in the ER. After this experience, I feel like health care is a privilege and something each individual person should have to pay for, otherwise we all will be paying for it which is what is happening right now.
 
I am voting for Bush. No other comments.
 
1st: Why isn't Bush going after the real monsters - the insurance company executives who make exorbitant salaries?

2nd: John Edwards carefully chose his cases and only fought for those people who were wrongfully hurt by GENUINE malpractice cases. He was no ambulance chaser. We all know there are lazy, incompetent physicians around who do not practice standard of care. I know because, shockingly, some of my attendings are like that. Although I have a great disdain for "ambulance chasers" , incompetent physicians who FAILED to provide STANDARD OF CARE or were NEGLIGENT must be punished.

3rd: To Woohaha or whatever your name is...you said you were a former congressional aide or something - and that George Bush took time out to chat with you....You must be a mighty privledged lad to get that aide position and have some mighty nice connections as well...no wonder you had a little tea party with Bush....

Finally: Everything is all political rhetoric. Since when did any candidate deliver? They just tell us what poeple want to hear and then ultimately, the people in Congress make all the decisions. Medicine will always be a great profession. I will graduate with a 230,000 loan and I blame this on the greedy colleges and universitities who spend more money to ensure the football teams' gourmet food than on better facilities for all students.

"You don't go into it for the money stupid"
 
LuckyMD2b said:
Most of the residents of my state overwhelmingly believe that healthcare is a right for all people. So do the citizens of every other industrialized nation in the world. This is not an emotional argument it's a matter of ideology I guess, but the only question I have to ask you conservative is: What would Jesus say?

"You should only heal those that can afford to pay you large sums of shekels."

I don't think so.

God granted us the free will to choose or not to choose to help the less fortunate. There will always be suffering and people in need. The liberal solution is to create more entitlements and force overburdened hard working taxpayers to fund them. Entitlements serve to remove liberty and personal accountability. 40+ years of huge entitlements have created an epidemic of robin hood entitlement mentality folks that want government to take care of them. Although conservatives promote personal freedoms and accountability, which help people more than entitlements, they get labelled as uncompassionate because they aren't willing to force the more fortunate to help the least fortunate.
 
golgi said:
1st:
Finally: Everything is all political rhetoric. Since when did any candidate deliver? They just tell us what poeple want to hear and then ultimately, the people in Congress make all the decisions. Medicine will always be a great profession. I will graduate with a 230,000 loan and I blame this on the greedy colleges and universitities who spend more money to ensure the football teams' gourmet food than on better facilities for all students.

"You don't go into it for the money stupid"

We agree on this point.
 
golgi said:
1st: Why isn't Bush going after the real monsters - the insurance company executives who make exorbitant salaries?

2nd: John Edwards carefully chose his cases and only fought for those people who were wrongfully hurt by GENUINE malpractice cases. He was no ambulance chaser. We all know there are lazy, incompetent physicians around who do not practice standard of care. I know because, shockingly, some of my attendings are like that. Although I have a great disdain for "ambulance chasers" , incompetent physicians who FAILED to provide STANDARD OF CARE or were NEGLIGENT must be punished.

3rd: To Woohaha or whatever your name is...you said you were a former congressional aide or something - and that George Bush took time out to chat with you....You must be a mighty privledged lad to get that aide position and have some mighty nice connections as well...no wonder you had a little tea party with Bush....

Finally: Everything is all political rhetoric. Since when did any candidate deliver? They just tell us what poeple want to hear and then ultimately, the people in Congress make all the decisions. Medicine will always be a great profession. I will graduate with a 230,000 loan and I blame this on the greedy colleges and universitities who spend more money to ensure the football teams' gourmet food than on better facilities for all students.

"You don't go into it for the money stupid"

I was a Senatorial aide thank you.

Another person here that thinks they have all of the answers. This is the type of ignorance and judgement that seems to pervade the public when politics are concerned. If you want to see who delivers on their promises and who does not, the Congressional Record is a public document and is available online. I suggest you read it before you pop off and put everyone in the same group. The Senator I worked for was very good at delivering on his promises--he was elected to the US Senate for four consecutive six-year terms before he resigned because he was elected Governor of his state. He had an impecable record.

Where is the privelege you are talking about on my behalf??? If you know something about my life that I don't know, by all means share it with me. I came from a working class family, went to public high school, served four years in the US Air Force, and attended public university. I have accomplished everything on my own--no help, including putting myself through college and med school.

Tea party??? Don't minimize a situation when you don't know what you are talking about--it lets your ignorance slip out. I met President Bush during policy meetings with various members of his cabinet and staff. And yes I do have some very good contacts in the Federal government and Congress--all whom I have worked with extensively trying to save this country from this liberal push to socialism.

Further, as for your comments about Edwards--I will let his record speak for itself. I heard the same thing about his "case selectivity" when he was running for US Senate. He is in the same boat as Kerry, Clinton, Gore, Dashle, etc. Either his campaign or his track record is correct--not both. Not only is it in his Senate record, it is available in the North Carolina archives. The fact is that he is in the pocket of the most liberal legal organizations in the country--including The Trial Lawyers of America.

Don't even pretend to know why I went into medicine. If it were for the money, I would have become an invesment banker after four years of college. There are easier ways to make a lot of money than medicine.
 
Idiot republicans. Watch the 12-minute video on the website. It doesn't take a genious to see that nearly all of Kerry's quotes are taken out of context. Is the entire negative Bush campaign based on negativity and one word -- "flip-flop." It's not hard to see what Kerry's saying: he voted for the war, but never envisioned the idiocy of the Right. Here's an example:

"KERRY STATEMENT DISTORTED TO PUSH FLIP-FLOP CLAIM

In their desperate efforts to paint Senator John Kerry (D-MA) as a serial
flip-flopper, President Bush's reelection campaign has resorted to gross
distortions of his public statements. The campaign is now trumpeting the
fact that Kerry, after voting to authorize the use of force in Iraq,
described himself "as an anti-war candidate."[1] The claim is based on a
clip of Kerry's 1/6/04 appearance on Hardball with Chris Mathews, which is
featured in a new 12 minute "documentary" on Kerry produced by the
Republican National Committee. This is how the RNC presents the
interview:[2]

MSNBC'S CHRIS MATTHEWS: "Are you one of the anti-war candidates?"

KERRY: "I am - Yeah."

The real transcript of the interview reveals that the clip was doctored.
Kerry was not trying to shift his position but actually reiterating his
belief that President Bush made a mistake in the way he went to war. Here is
the actual transcript:[3]

MATTHEWS: Do you think you belong to that category of candidates who more or
less are unhappy with this war, the way it's been fought...Are you one of
the anti-war candidates?

KERRY: I am -- Yes, in the sense that I don't believe the president took us
to war as he should have, yes, absolutely. "
 
benbk said:
Idiot republicans. Watch the 12-minute video on the website. It doesn't take a genious to see that nearly all of Kerry's quotes are taken out of context. . "


Well maybe they hired Michael Moore, taking quotes out of context is his specialty.
 
ether_screen said:
For such intelligent people, why do so many of you believe absolutely everything you hear? 😕


I agree, all these liberals simply believe everything on left-biased cnn and papers like la times etc and actually believe the propaganda in Farenheit 911 etc. It's kind of sad.
 
thegasman said:
I agree, all these liberals simply believe everything on left-biased cnn and papers like la times etc and actually believe the propaganda in Farenheit 911 etc. It's kind of sad.


Why do liberals think Fahrenheit 911 is a factual documentary? It's not! IT'S FICTION! And talk about taking things out of context!
 
Do you really believe that either candidate is going to make this country a better place? Neither really cares about the good of this country. They just want to appease special interest groups. That's just the way American politics is set up.

My advice... vote for whoever is going to make your life easier. Perhaps, physicians are jerked around because they do't do this. We all know for whom the trial lawyers are voting. It's no secret who the NRA supports. But what about physicians? Who does the AMA endorse ? Nobody. And that's why we suck.

Maybe its time to stop whining on this stupid board about how horrible medicine is and how bad the lawyers are and how its horrible that I have so much debt when all I want to do is help the world.

Enough tears! Modern American medicine is in a CRISIS. Use your vote to save it. I can think of nothing worse for our country than the medical apocalypse we face professionally and as a society.
 
This is the problem with doctors. They lack either the concern or ability to coalesce together for the greater cause. There are not enough physicians out there willing to be involved enough to rally the troops as it were. An example of this is that it is my understanding that a few decades ago, doctors had a fund for malpractice that they paid into--it was controlled by physicians. But as time went on, they allowed it to slip away and let the big insurance corporations get a hold on it. Now this is a cancer that is malignant and is frustrating to deal with.

Lawyers on the other hand have it figured out. No matter how much they oppose each other in different aspects of the law, they will not turn on each other. Have you ever heard of "Legal Malpractice"? Probably not. This is an aspect of the law that I have long advocated. It may happen that lawyers sue each other in that way, but the number of cases is negligible. There are some bad lawyers out there, but when you become an attorney, you become part of the brotherhood and you do not go after fellow lawyers over malpractice. This is part of an unwritten law of lawyerly behavior. If I wanted to sue a lawyer for handling my legal affairs negligently, I would be hard-pressed to find an attorney to sue him. Lawyers also know how to coalesce to make things happen. The defense attorney will team with the DA, the environmental lawyer will join the industrial lawyer to acheive the greater good for their cause before local, state and federal governments.

Doctors need to coalesce accordingly despite their differences to maintain what they need and desire in medicine. That is why it is so important to be politically active as a physician. It can not be just a few trying to do the work for all. I realize that this is reaching for Utopia, but, imagine if the physicians could retake the malpractice insurance issue and control it themselves again instead of paying ever increasing premiums to the insurance companies that are taking in exponentially more than they are putting out. Would it be possible? Only if there are enough doctors that care enough to come together and attempt it. I don't think that there is a problem with recognition of the challenges facing physicians now. Whether you be Democrat, Republican, Independent, or other, we doctors need to be in the most powerful position we can to confront these challenges and changes that are coming our way to provide the best care for our patients.
 
Remember, the masses of American voters aren't applying to medical schools. First impressions and anecdotal evidence is enough for 95% of the population. A "gut feeling" is all people look for in a strong leader, not intelligent decisions.

Still, Bush is getting the crap kicked out of him in November. Woohoo!

p.s. Has Bush mentioned healthcare once? I know he's all for increasing availability of prescription drugs. Thanks, W. Other than that, it's all "terrorist, terrorist, terrorist, God Bless America."
 
benbk said:
p.s. Has Bush mentioned healthcare once? I know he's all for increasing availability of prescription drugs. Thanks, W. Other than that, it's all "terrorist, terrorist, terrorist, God Bless America."

The Bush Cabinet is also working on medical tort reform--limits on the amount for pain and suffering--and on lowering medical malpractice awards. They are also trying to get rid of the frivolous stuff.

When I was in med school in Southern California during my first year, there was a malpractice case in full swing. There was a lady that was a single mom with several children that had a seizure while driving. As we all know, this requires notificaiton to the DMV. She pleaded with him not to report her because she would lose her legal ability to drive and attend to her children's schooling and activities. He took pity on her and her situation and opted not to talk to DMV.

One month later, she slammed into the back of another car on a freeway in LA. I am not sure if she was seizing or not. She levied a lawsuit for 25 million against the neuroligist that she earlier pleaded with not to report her. Her argument: "If he would have done his job and reported me to DMV, I would not have been driving that day and would not have killed the other motorist."

She won. Fortunately, it was appealled to a higher court and it was overturned.
 
Yeah, but unfortunately if he would have done his job in the first place and told the DMV, which IS the standard of care, a person wouldn't have been slammed into and killed on the freeway....
 
benbk said:
Still, Bush is getting the crap kicked out of him in November. Woohoo!

In your dreams! The Swifties are just getting ramped up. Lot's more dirt on Kerry to come. :laugh:
 
amnestic said:
Yeah, but unfortunately if he would have done his job in the first place and told the DMV, which IS the standard of care, a person wouldn't have been slammed into and killed on the freeway....

That is the point I was addressing. For as much pity as you take on your patients' situations and try to help them, you have to protect yourself.
 
Just one question. Is Kerry going to release his military service record to the public (which, I might add, would clear up this swiftboat mess) or is there something else that he doesn't want everyone to know about?? The easiest solution would be to have his record released as opposed to go through the FCC and the Bush Campaign to stop their right to free speech.
 
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